Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Dyr

cisk wrote: »

Day two, news article about the longer tram not clearing O’Connell bridge.



The cause won’t be a suprise to anyone.

“The tram - which has two extra carriages compared to existing trams - was itself blocked beforehand by a taxi parked in a yellow box.”


https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0208/939243-luas-dublin/

The trams have being doing this since day one at some junctions and its not taxis that are causing it. Seems to be an unofficial policy that the rules no longer apply

Also noted on one of the narrow streets the luas is now using delivery vehicles are parked up and completely blocking the footpath with impunity

devnull

Bambi wrote: »

The trams have being doing this since day one at some junctions and its not taxis that are causing it. Seems to be an unofficial policy that the rules no longer apply.

The photo shown is of the back of the tram, not the front.

The tram discussed from this morning would have got fully through if it wasn't for a taxi blocking the front of it, but since it cannot go through because it's way is blocked, the back of it hangs out on the yellow box and gets stuck there as a consequence of what is happening in front of it.

I've just seen a taxi break lights and end up blocking a tram so I can't see this stopping unless the Garda start to deal with the light breakers and instead of talking to them, start to hand out proper punishments as well as some new traffic measures to stop this kind of thing.

loyatemu

cycling over OCB at lunchtime, a tram (not one of the long ones) got stuck blocking the quays because a DCC truck had failed to clear the yellow box turning onto the bridge :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

loyatemu wrote: »

cycling over OCB at lunchtime, a tram (not one of the long ones) got stuck blocking the quays because a DCC truck had failed to clear the yellow box turning onto the bridge :rolleyes:

do the tram drivers not beep them when this happens?!

Dyr

devnull wrote: »

The photo shown is of the back of the tram, not the front.

The tram discussed from this morning would have got fully through if it wasn't for a taxi blocking the front of it, but since it cannot go through because it's way is blocked, the back of it hangs out on the yellow box and gets stuck there as a consequence of what is happening in front of it.

I've just seen a taxi break lights and end up blocking a tram so I can't see this stopping unless the Garda start to deal with the light breakers and instead of talking to them, start to hand out proper punishments as well as some new traffic measures to stop this kind of thing.

Like I said, trams have been blocking certain junctions since day 1. They were doing it during the test trials and they're still doing it. It appears to be an unofficial policy that they do this.

Is any of that inaccurate?

loyatemu

Idbatterim wrote: »

do the tram drivers not beep them when this happens?!

not much point - the truck couldn't move until the lights at the other end of the bridge changed.

First time I'd cycled through College Green since the line opened. Wasn't too bad (though I did cycle through the Trinity luas stop as there's clearly no room for bikes on the actual road there).

devnull

Bambi wrote: »

Like I said, trams have been blocking certain junctions since day 1. They were doing it during the test trials and they're still doing it. It appears to be an unofficial policy that they do this.

Is any of that inaccurate?

No but often this happening is a symptom of something else that is happening ahead of the tram, such as a taxi breaking lights, or something getting stuck such as a DCC truck as has been alluded to above, or something else, rather than the tram causing the problem for itself.

A good doctor always treats the cause of the problem rather than the symptoms is all I'm saying.

MJohnston

Yellow box offenses, as with seriously 99% of traffic offenses, go completely unpunished in this city. There is zero respect for potential punishment, which means that a large majority of drivers are absolutely awful at following simple rules like keeping yellow boxes clear, not driving in bus lanes, ignoring no turn signs, etc.

The Garda have so little presence in the city, and the traffic corps even less than that.

So it's no surprise to me that problems are being caused in this way by vehicles blocking yellow boxes, and therefore trams.

It's a failure at so many levels of government - the Dail for not funding policing correctly, and the council for not responding to commuter needs and prioritising short sighted business groups instead.

The most annoying thing is that the solutions are plain to see to anyone else, and they're mostly very simple.

devnull

MJohnston wrote: »

Yellow box offenses, as with seriously 99% of traffic offenses, go completely unpunished in this city. There is zero respect for potential punishment, which means that a large majority of drivers are absolutely awful at following simple rules like keeping yellow boxes clear, not driving in bus lanes, ignoring no turn signs, etc.

The Garda have so little presence in the city, and the traffic corps even less than that. So it's no surprise to me that problems are being caused in this way by vehicles blocking yellow boxes, and therefore trams.

There should be almost zero discretion when it comes to traffic offences in the city center because of the knock on effect it is happening on public transport that has always been an issue, but with the LUAS now going cross city, it becomes even more important that there is pretty much a zero tolerance attitude towards traffic offences such as those outlined in this thread.

Anytime I see a traffic offence in the city center, if anyone does anything about it, which itself is rare, it's a friendly little chat, told not to do it again and the driver normally just agrees not to do it again and does the same thing the next day and the day later because they know the Garda will simply tick them off but never actually do anything.

If the people committing these offences day in day out and knew they were going to get punished for them and not just a friendly chat, they'd soon stop, but right now they know that barely anyone is enforcing the rules and the chance of being actually punished is almost non existent so it will go on and on and on

beauf

What Garda...

bk

Automatic red light/yellow box cameras that automatically fine you and apply penalty points all over the core city center. Only answer to this problem.

MJohnston

bk wrote: »

Automatic red light/yellow box cameras that automatically fine you and apply penalty points all over the core city center. Only answer to this problem.

yes, this is the other authority failing I'd highlight - GDS and their absolute allergy to automating or privatising any element of their enforcement.

Van.Bosch

bk wrote: »

Automatic red light/yellow box cameras that automatically fine you and apply penalty points all over the core city center. Only answer to this problem.

Agreed and a camera at each no turn sign which photos every car/van/motorbike etc.

Podge_irl

Traffic fines in Geneva where you block public transport are calculated based on a rate per minute depending on what you're blocking (a tram costs more than a bus for example because it carries more people). Never once seen any problems with traffic blocking trams here!

LeinsterDub

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/review-of-signalling-arrangements-for-luas-after-difficulties-with-new-trams-1.3384686

Transport Infrastructure Ireland is reviewing signalling arrangements in Dublin city centre following difficulties with the city’s new 55-metre Luas trams

Mean while doctors treating symptoms perplexed as to why the patient is still sick

trellheim

The tram discussed from this morning would have got fully through if it wasn't for a taxi blocking the front of it, but since it cannot go through because it's way is blocked, the back of it hangs out on the yellow box and gets stuck there as a consequence of what is happening in front of it.

I've just seen a taxi break lights and end up blocking a tram so I can't see this stopping unless the Garda start to deal with the light breakers and instead of talking to them, start to hand out proper punishments as well as some new traffic measures to stop this kind of thing.

When I was doing driving lessons it was the case you should not enter unless you could clear the box.

This is actually in the RTA SI's

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print

29. (1) Subject to sub-article (2), where traffic sign number RRM 020 [yellow box] is provided at a junction (whether controlled by traffic sign number RTS 00I, RTS 002 or RTS 004 [traffic lights], or otherwise], and notwithstanding any indication to the contrary that may be given by such traffic signs, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter, either partly or wholly, the crosshatched area unless the vehicle can clear the area without stopping.

When did trams become exempt from this ? If it was a long HGV it would apply so why do trams get a pass ? If , in the case above, a taxi was blocking the other end, that's the very reason for the box - don't enter it if you can't exit fully cos.... you'll block it !

Podge_irl

trellheim wrote: »

When did trams become exempt from this ?

Are trams covered by the act in the first place? (genuine question)

devnull

trellheim wrote: »

When I was doing driving lessons it was the case you should not enter unless you could clear the box.

A tram is not a road vehicle, it's a light rail vehicle.

When did trams become exempt from this ? If it was a long HGV it would apply so why do trams get a pass ? If , in the case above, a taxi was blocking the other end, that's the very reason for the box - don't enter it if you can't exit fully cos.... you'll block it !

I have seen incidents where a tram was already moving through the (rear) yellow box and right at the last second a taxi has blocked the yellow box in front of it was approaching it so what you say is impossible because there is going to be a time difference between the LUAS entering the first yellow box and the second yellow box.

CramCycle

devnull wrote: »

I have seen incidents where a tram was already moving through the (rear) yellow box and right at the last second a taxi has blocked the yellow box in front of it was approaching it so what you say is impossible because there is going to be a time difference between the LUAS entering the first yellow box and the second yellow box.

This is what I was thinking, although the light sequence should be set up to block both simultaneously, as well as to photograph any other vehicle parked on it while their light is red.

Muahahaha

Saw a long tram heading northbound blocking the south quays around 12.30pm today. There was a Dublin Bus and taxi in its lane so it couldnt proceed any further.

devnull

CramCycle wrote: »

This is what I was thinking, although the light sequence should be set up to block both simultaneously, as well as to photograph any other vehicle parked on it while their light is red.

Trouble is though there are people (almost all taxis) who are breaking the lights and making a last minute dash through a junction, who are then getting stuck very shortly after, as well as those who feel that it's acceptable to queue in the yellow box.

trellheim

Who on earth said trams are not subject to the road traffic acts ?

trellheim

trellheim wrote: »

Who on earth said trams are not subject to the road traffic acts ?

I would imagine that it's due to the fact that trams have to obey their own rail style signals even where they mix with road traffic. The tram is released onto the road sections by the signals, plus the fact they're on rails that share the road.

I don't believe that they do follow the rules of the road as they're not road vehicles.

bk

I would assume that the fact they are travelling on rail tracks mean that the rules of rail take precedence over road. Much in the same way rail takes precedence over road at level crossings.

To be honest, if you go to any European city with lots of trams, like Prague or Amsterdam, you wouldn't be surprised by this at all. Trams always take priority in these cities over everything else.

trellheim

Not sure about that. Trams have indicators and headlights , required by the Road Traffic Act

Drink Driving a Tram is just as much of an offence I think

safe driving rules still apply , while they do have their own signals that doesn't mean you can drive over a pedestrian

SO what are the ROTR for a tram then

trellheim

trellheim wrote: »

Not sure about that. Trams have indicators and headlights , required by the Road Traffic Act

Drink Driving a Tram is just as much of an offence I think

safe driving rules still apply , while they do have their own signals that doesn't mean you can drive over a pedestrian

SO what are the ROTR for a tram then

The rules of operating machinery while drunk are almost universal, you don't!
They have indicators and headlights but those are covered by the rules of light rail as are all the other "ROTR" "Rules of the rail), just because they're similar doesn't mean that they're the same.

Stephen15

trellheim wrote: »

Not sure about that. Trams have indicators and headlights , required by the Road Traffic Act

Drink Driving a Tram is just as much of an offence I think

safe driving rules still apply , while they do have their own signals that doesn't mean you can drive over a pedestrian

SO what are the ROTR for a tram then

It might a bit harder to breathalyse the the driver if they are in a sealed cab wouldn't ya think

rolas

Who on earth said trams are not subject to the road traffic acts ?

Road Traffic Act 1961
“mechanically propelled vehicle” means, subject to subsection (2) of this section, a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including—
(a) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used,
(b) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical,
but not including a tramcar or other vehicle running on permanent rails;

Transport (Railway Infrastructure) Act, 2001
61.—Regulations made under section 11 of the Act of 1961 shall not apply to a light rail vehicle.

69.—The Regulation of Railways Acts, 1840 to 1889, and any other Act relating to railways shall, in so far as they are not inconsistent with the provisions of this Act, apply to railway undertakings and any railway constructed under this Act.

markpb

rolas wrote: »

Who on earth said trams are not subject to the road traffic acts ?

Road Traffic Act 1961
“mechanically propelled vehicle” means, subject to subsection (2) of this section, a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including—
(a) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used,
(b) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical,
but not including a tramcar or other vehicle running on permanent rails;

Transport (Railway Infrastructure) Act, 2001
61.—Regulations made under section 11 of the Act of 1961 shall not apply to a light rail vehicle.

69.—The Regulation of Railways Acts, 1840 to 1889, and any other Act relating to railways shall, in so far as they are not inconsistent with the provisions of this Act, apply to railway undertakings and any railway constructed under this Act.

It looks pretty clear cut to me that they're not covered.

MJohnston

rolas wrote: »

Who on earth said trams are not subject to the road traffic acts ?

Road Traffic Act 1961
“mechanically propelled vehicle” means, subject to subsection (2) of this section, a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including—
(a) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used,
(b) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical,
but not including a tramcar or other vehicle running on permanent rails;

Transport (Railway Infrastructure) Act, 2001
61.—Regulations made under section 11 of the Act of 1961 shall not apply to a light rail vehicle.

69.—The Regulation of Railways Acts, 1840 to 1889, and any other Act relating to railways shall, in so far as they are not inconsistent with the provisions of this Act, apply to railway undertakings and any railway constructed under this Act.

The Road Traffic Act you just posted did!