Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

cgcsb

Middle Man wrote: »

It looks like they're going to have to pedestrianise College Green with a total ban on all cars and bikes (taxis included) - none of these modes need to go past the front of Trinity College IMO. The only reservation I'd have about the pedestrianisation is that it may scupper any future plan to extended the proposed Luas Lucan Line from Dame Street towards the Ringsend area - a tramline should be seriously considered for the Grand Canal Docks area given the density of development there (both existing and proposed).

By that time Metro North will be well in advance through the construction phase, the fear of underground travel will have abaited and they'll opt for a cut and cover luas from Dame Street to Pearse St

LeinsterDub

Idbatterim wrote: »

Electric and hopefully driverless at that stage, brt can serve the proposed Lucan route on the timescale we are talking. No more on street luas in city centre! I cannot wait to see the opposition from business if they plan on ripping up streets for years again!

You don't hear these business moaning now that 10,000's of customers are delivered to their doorsteps . To put it bluntly . F**K em

LeinsterDub

Dublin’s College Green to O’Connell Bridge area faces being a no-go area for other forms of public transport following the introduction of Luas Cross City and a concurrent delay in bus times.

An analysis of journey times on three days last week shows Luas in the city centre is capable of consistently crossing the problematical centre city, from St Stephen’s Green to Westmoreland Street, in just five minutes during peak times

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/college-green-may-become-a-no-go-area-for-all-non-luas-transport-1.3388507

roadmaster

The Cynic in me would nearly think DCC and Owen keegan are very happy with the issues being caused by the luas. They can now go back to the City Councillors and various lobby groups and say look we have to implement our traffic plan that you objected to or everything is going to stop

hmmm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/college-green-may-become-a-no-go-area-for-all-non-luas-transport-1.3388507

Again there is an assumption that the LUAS is entitled to perfect running times through the city centre, while all other forms of transport, some carrying far more passengers, will have to suffer. I don't buy the argument that LUAS "needs" certain conditions (e.g. a clear run through College Green) and therefore should be given them - buses also "need" certain conditions for ideal operation, but the planners have not given buses those conditions.

Idbatterim

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You don't hear these business moaning now that 10,000's of customers are delivered to their doorsteps . To put it bluntly . F**K em

they can be delivered to their their doorstep by either far better and more appropriate means for Dublin in the city centre, i.e. Underground or electric brt. I am absolutely against light rail at surface in town

CramCycle

hmmm wrote: »

Again there is an assumption that the LUAS is entitled to perfect running times through the city centre, while all other forms of transport, some carrying far more passengers, will have to suffer. I don't buy the argument that LUAS "needs" certain conditions (e.g. a clear run through College Green) and therefore should be given them - buses also "need" certain conditions for ideal operation, but the planners have not given buses those conditions.

I would disagree to an extent. If cars and taxis (except blue badge holders) are removed, bus times would improve immediately but I would be removing private vehicles from SSG to Parnell St., and across from the Sam Beckett to Capel St.

Even at peak capacity, the LUAS will still leave plenty of time for buses at the cross over point.

Deliveries between 4 and 7am.

Sam Russell

hmmm wrote: »

Again there is an assumption that the LUAS is entitled to perfect running times through the city centre, while all other forms of transport, some carrying far more passengers, will have to suffer. I don't buy the argument that LUAS "needs" certain conditions (e.g. a clear run through College Green) and therefore should be given them - buses also "need" certain conditions for ideal operation, but the planners have not given buses those conditions.

It is not a question of the Luas having perfect running times.

Compare it to the Dart and level crossings - stopping the Dart to convenience buses, cars or even ambulances with the blue lights going simply does not happen - the Dart gets priority.

No matter what system is put forward, a tram moving at normal speed will take less time to pass through a junction than one that has to stop. That extra time is lost to all traffic, not just the Luas - so keep the trams moving.

ozzy jr

Was an elevated Luas ever considered for the City Centre?

Sam Russell

ozzy jr wrote: »

Was an elevated Luas ever considered for the City Centre?

Garret Fitzgerald said it had to go underground. That was considered but Mary O'Rourke and FF decided to delay the project, and cancel the CC extension and go at grade as 'people do not like the idea of an underground Luas'.

Garret was right.

yabadabado

Sam Russell wrote: »

Garret Fitzgerald said it had to go underground. That was considered but Mary O'Rourke and FF decided to delay the project, and cancel the CC extension and go at grade as 'people do not like the idea of an underground Luas'.

Garret was right.

Any time you see Mary O'Rourkes named mentioned you just know it's some **** up.

LeinsterDub

Idbatterim wrote: »

they can be delivered to their their doorstep by either far better and more appropriate means for Dublin in the city centre, i.e. Underground or electric brt. I am absolutely against light rail at surface in town

I would also be in favour of those modes of transport. My point was we shouldn't listen to the vested business interests

stop

Idbatterim wrote: »

Surely when the trams are crossing ocb, they green light pedestrian crossing too?

From what I've seen, this is not the case for Red Line Crossing OCS or Green line passing College Green. Thus peds end up ignoring their lights and going whenever they want..

CramCycle

stop wrote: »

From what I've seen, this is not the case for Red Line Crossing OCS or Green line passing College Green. Thus peds end up ignoring their lights and going whenever they want..

This is a common problem all over Ireland where ped lights remain red unless a button is pressed, whereas as they should be green in any situation where crossing traffic is not permitted.

You end up with people hitting the button and it not changing for an age, people get more bored of waiting and in the end, most people pay no attention.

It is a really stupid issue.

bk

Seemingly the NTA/DCC specifically decided not to have the pedestrian lights go green in parallel with the Luas, seemingly in fear that a pedestrian will fall in front of the Luas while crossing.

And yes it is a completely idiotic policy, which simply trains people to ignore pedestrian lights!

hmmm

bk wrote: »

Seemingly the NTA/DCC specifically decided not to have the pedestrian lights go green in parallel with the Luas, seemingly in fear that a pedestrian will fall in front of the Luas while crossing.

They'd be better off worrying about the junction at Dawson Street and Nassau Street. I've already seen some close misses there with pedestrians running out in front of trams, and that place is always packed with tourists in the Summer who sometimes follow the more suicidal locals - with a delay. The problem is that in the past there used to be a continuous stream of traffic, so people were inclined to wait for the lights - now with the LUAS being less frequent, people are taking more chances.

We also painted the LUAS camouflage grey of course, so it blends in with the streetscape and sky.

Nermal

hmmm wrote: »

Again there is an assumption that the LUAS is entitled to perfect running times through the city centre, while all other forms of transport, some carrying far more passengers, will have to suffer. I don't buy the argument that LUAS "needs" certain conditions (e.g. a clear run through College Green) and therefore should be given them - buses also "need" certain conditions for ideal operation, but the planners have not given buses those conditions.

Jesus. What's more expensive, re-routing the LUAS or re-routing the buses?

Bray Head

Dublin Bus has had a mere five years to adapt its routes to work around Luas Cross City.

Sam Russell

Bray Head wrote: »

Dublin Bus has had a mere five years to adapt its routes to work around Luas Cross City.

How could that be - Luas CC only started in December?

ArmaniJeanss

Bray Head wrote: »

Dublin Bus has had a mere five years to adapt its routes to work around Luas Cross City.

Would have been a terrible decision for DB to unilaterally send all it's buses down different crowded routes, leaving the College Green run 'freemoving' for Luas, taxis, aircoach, private buses etc.

Sticking to their guns and thus forcing DCC to make the difficult decisions is the correct approach, albeit it's led to extreme short term pain.

LXFlyer

Bray Head wrote: »

Dublin Bus has had a mere five years to adapt its routes to work around Luas Cross City.

You’re making a hell of a judgement there by blaming Dublin Bus solely for this.

It was stated explicitly by the RPA that LUAS and the bus traffic (and other traffic too) could all happily co-exist together during the planning process for LCC. That was the accepted presumption.

It has only been in two years that DCC stated that they didn’t think that it would work and came up with the Plaza idea, and since then they have singularly failed to come up with an acceptable solution for re-routing the bus network.

Local councillors shot down the proposal for using Parliament St and for restricting car traffic along the Quays. This led to some quite ludicrous proposals that would have destroyed the effectiveness of the bus routes in question.

Without proper bus priority measures being put in place, there are limited options to where the buses can go.

Bear in mind that the still much greater number of bus users are as entitled to a service to/from the city centre as anyone using the tram. Yet they are being treated as an afterthought.

The blame in my eyes lies initially with the whole planning process for accepting the RPA’s assertions and latterly with DCC for singularly failing to come up with an acceptable solution.

hmmm

Nermal wrote: »

Jesus. What's more expensive, re-routing the LUAS or re-routing the buses?

Expensive in terms of what? I would see the extra commuting time being added to the days of tens of thousands of bus passengers to be pretty expensive, compared to the benefits of a slightly quicker way for LUAS passengers to get from Stephen's Green to O'Connell Street. That's not to mention the increased risk to cyclists - the metal madness around College Green has put paid to a lot of hopes that more people could be encouraged to cycle into the city.

trellheim

You’re making a hell of a judgement there by blaming Dublin Bus solely for this.

Well said. Why the fk is this DB's fault where the hell are the buses supposed to go with them serving the majority of PT

CramCycle

I see no reason why DB, LUAS and even private coaches cannot co exist. Ban private cars and taxis, increased the fines for sitting on a yellow box and running reds as well as introducing ANPR at every junction.

Job done.

Taxi complaints - unless they can come up with reasonable ones, ignore them.
Private car park complaints - give them free rezoning permission for the car parks to change to offices, shops or apartments etc.

Anyone who says it is not that simple, is incorrect, it really is. All you have to do is get the councillors to vote for it, and I can only think of one reason they wouldn't and that reason is not why they were voted in.

Give access to taxis and delivery vans between 1am and 5am.

hmmm

https://twitter.com/EamonRyan/status/963122021830930433

CramCycle

hmmm wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EamonRyan/status/963122021830930433

Really unclear when they were unsteady and slower than other traffic why they did not merge in behind the bus. It is also another clear cut illustration of why taxis need to be removed from that area entirely.

Idbatterim

I just watched that video, could they not put the rubber inserts into the tracks, at least where a lot of traffic crosses them? also why cant they take a bit of width off the footpath there? it does look very dangerous for bikes and excessively wide foothpath, given the space constraints...

markpb

CramCycle wrote: »

Give access to taxis and delivery vans between 1am and 5am.

This is daft. Do you think that all the shops in the affected area should pay staff to work in the middle of the night to accept deliveries? Do you think delivery companies will work in the middle of the night to serve a handful of businesses in the city centre?

LXFlyer

hmmm wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EamonRyan/status/963122021830930433

There is a two way cycle lane on the west side of College Green that gives access to Dame St avoiding the tracks - cyclists need to stay right along College St and cross Westmoreland St to access it. Lack of proper signage for it isn’t helping.

CramCycle

markpb wrote: »

This is daft. Do you think that all the shops in the affected area should pay staff to work in the middle of the night to accept deliveries? Do you think delivery companies will work in the middle of the night to serve a handful of businesses in the city centre?

Why is is daft? Happens at the minute for several companies because that is the way things work out. The other option is they find other workarounds. I used to have to come in early in my college days to accept Keg deliveries because that is the time they came in at.