Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

hmmm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Near chaos? A tad hyperbolic no?

No, it's been three days of chaos on the LUAS to follow months of problems since the introduction of LCC, and the North Quays are broken for buses. Reliability and confidence in the public transport system is shot.

People have put up with it for a few weeks in the hopes "something" would happen, but all we have is tinkering at the edges and a bunch of three letter agencies pointing fingers at each other.

bk

It sounds like the new trams were rushed into service before they are ready.

Hopefully it is something that can easily be resolved and gotten back to their usual reliability.

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

It sounds like the new trams were rushed into service before they are ready.

Hopefully it is something that can easily be resolved and gotten back to their usual reliability.

I think that sums up the entire LCC extension being honest about it!

LuckyLloyd

Transdev folding under the pressure? A little bit of incompetence being teased to the fore maybe?

IngazZagni

Why are these new trams breaking down? Have Alstom sent us some shoddily built new trams? Are the new 55 metre luas trams with full passenger loads putting too much strain on the tram? Rushed into service before usual works done in testing or just a coincidence?

ozzy jr

When they say "failing", what exactly is happening?

Are there people on these failing trains, or are they just testing the new ones empty?

devnull

IngazZagni wrote: »

Why are these new trams breaking down? Have Alstom sent us some shoddily built new trams? Are the new 55 metre luas trams with full passenger loads putting too much strain on the tram? Rushed into service before usual works done in testing or just a coincidence?

They are the first 55m trams ever built by Alstom.

What is a little ironic however is reading some people saying that the trams have been rushed into service before they are ready and without enough testing, when a few weeks ago in this thread people were arguing that the trams should already have been in service and testing was taking far too long and there were being too cautious.

LXFlyer

ozzy jr wrote: »

When they say "failing", what exactly is happening?

Are there people on these failing trains, or are they just testing the new ones empty?

The trams were in service with passengers on board and had (certainly in one case) a complete systems failure which required it to be rescued by an another tram to be brought back to the depot.

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

They are the first 55m trams ever built by Alstom.

What is a little ironic however is reading some people saying that the trams have been rushed into service before they are ready and without enough testing, when a few weeks ago in this thread people were arguing that the trams should already have been in service and testing was taking far too long and there were being too cautious.

I think it is fair comment to say that the LCC Green Line extension was rushed into service to satisfy politicians (and in particular our Taoiseach), before all of the necessary infrastructure and rolling stock were in place.

It’s a shambolic rollout of what should have been a good news story in Dublin.

TheHouseIRL

LXFlyer wrote: »

I think it is fair comment to say that the LCC Green Line extension was rushed into service to satisfy politicians (and in particular our Taoiseach), before all of the necessary infrastructure and rolling stock were in place.

It’s a shambolic rollout of what should have been a good news story in Dublin.

The below headline would appear to back up that comment.

businesspost.ie/news/state-push-open-new-luas-line-early-411478

stop

How are there still gaps in the light sequences at college green?
Northbound LUAS approaches, southbound to grafton gets red - why?
After LUAS clears junction, N-S pedestrians lights go green - why not go green during LUAS move?

LXFlyer

stop wrote: »

How are there still gaps in the light sequences at college green?
Northbound LUAS approaches, southbound to grafton gets red - why?
After LUAS clears junction, N-S pedestrians lights go green - why not go green during LUAS move?

Pedestrian signals stay red at all junctions while LUAS has a proceed aspect irrespective of whether they’re crossing the tramline or not.

It is deemed a safety issue by either TII or the CRR (Rail Regulator).

Jamie2k9

LXFlyer wrote: »

It was 5028 that failed the previous night on O’Connell St?

Whichever of the two extended trams failed this evening, did so outbound on the bridge at Dundrum after 18.30.

Between these failures, the daily capacity issues, the poor schedules south of Sandyford and the city centre problems, people (especially those south of Sandyford who have fewer bus alternatives) are getting very very frustrated about this.

Indeed your correct, I even passed it twice that night.

Quite simply, three failures in three days. This one caused a 40 minute gap in peak service inbound.

Failures can happen and unfortunately rail failures tend to cause mayhem. But three in as many days is unprecedented.

The question is why are these failures happening?

People are not going to stand for this - the total lack of effective communication from Transdev and TII is shameful.

I don't believe there was any failures during the testing, could there be a power issue. Full tram verses an empty tram!

The trams were in service with passengers on board and had (certainly in one case) a complete systems failure which required it to be rescued by an another tram to be brought back to the depot.

Monday and Tuesday were towed. This morning appeared rater shot delay which could of been because it was so close to depot or not a full breakdown.

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Indeed your correct, I even passed it twice that night.



I don't believe there was any failures during the testing, could there be a power issue. Full tram verses an empty tram!



Monday and Tuesday were towed. This morning appeared rater shot delay which could of been because it was so close to depot or not a full breakdown.

Monday was pushed rather than towed I thought?

Jamie2k9

LXFlyer wrote: »

Monday was pushed rather than towed I thought?

Well same thing really, failures are generally moved by whatever tram is behind the failed one. Never saw them run wrong direction to pull one to depot.

hmmm

LUAS in trouble again this evening on both lines.

hmmm

markpb wrote: »

Comparisons to Russia are irrelevant. There is nothing the MoT can do about how the roads inside Dublin are managed, it's not his job, his role or within his authority. If he gets involved, all he can do is talk.

He is the Minister for Transport, he holds ultimate political responsibility for the public transport services in this country (well, Leo does, but he delegates this to Ministers). No-one is expecting him to be out configuring traffic lights or erecting pedestrian crossings, but he absolutely has responsibility to show leadership in sorting out this major mess that has been made of public transport in Dublin. It's clear that neither Dublin city councillors or the various three letter agencies are capable of taking responsibility or showing leadership, therefore the Minister has to intervene.

The political leadership are all front and center for the photo ops, and then disappear when there are problems. The Mayor of Berlin resigned after taking the fall for the Berlin airport fiasco, someone in our political leadership should be resigning because of LUAS cross sh...city.

bk

I'd imagine that part of the problem is that there is only so much a minister can do legally.

For instance, he can't just make the plaza happen, it has to legally go through the planning process and ABP. If he just tried to bypass, then you would end up with years of court cases.

The best he can do, is order Dublin Bus out of College Green, given that he fundamentally owns it.

But even ordering taxi's out of College Green is a bit of a legal grey area and likely to face challenge in court. Which is why I'd say they want to build the Plaza, once in place, there was little they could do about it.

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

I'd imagine that part of the problem is that there is only so much a minister can do legally.

For instance, he can't just make the plaza happen, it has to legally go through the planning process and ABP. If he just tried to bypass, then you would end up with years of court cases.

The best he can do, is order Dublin Bus out of College Green, given that he fundamentally owns it.

But even ordering taxi's out of College Green is a bit of a legal grey area and likely to face challenge in court. Which is why I'd say they want to build the Plaza, once in place, there was little they could do about it.

He can do no such thing as that would be gross political interference in the operations of the company.

Stephen15

hmmm wrote: »

He is the Minister for Transport, he holds ultimate political responsibility for the public transport services in this country (well, Leo does, but he delegates this to Ministers). No-one is expecting him to be out configuring traffic lights or erecting pedestrian crossings, but he absolutely has responsibility to show leadership in sorting out this major mess that has been made of public transport in Dublin. It's clear that neither Dublin city councillors or the various three letter agencies are capable of taking responsibility or showing leadership, therefore the Minister has to intervene.

The political leadership are all front and center for the photo ops, and then disappear when there are problems. The Mayor of Berlin resigned after taking the fall for the Berlin airport fiasco, someone in our political leadership should be resigning because of LUAS cross sh...city.

Tbh it's generally civil servants who call the shots when it comes to making decisions about transport in Ireland the minister it seems has little input. I still think Shane Ross is completely incompetent when it comes to being a minister not just a Minister for transport but a Minister for Anything, he's a protest politician who rambles on about things like corruption and is into parish pump politics but when it comes to making any serious decisions he is not able to and will seek to pass the buck.

I don't think Shane Ross is at fault, I think whoever made him a Minister is at fault when clearly he is an unsuitable candidate.

As for the Luas CC itself I think mistakes were made and some big ones at that firstly the 54m should not have been ordered at all but rather a number of standard length Luas trams in order to keep the frequency at the same levels as it was before the extension was built also there should have been more joined up thinking between Bus Connects, The College Green Plaza and Luas CC.

I think there is a bit of case when it comes to transport planners and The NTA there is a bit of a case damned if they do, damned if they don't many people used to complain that the Luas weren't connected but now they are they are still complaining.

LXFlyer

hmmm wrote: »

He is the Minister for Transport, he holds ultimate political responsibility for the public transport services in this country (well, Leo does, but he delegates this to Ministers). No-one is expecting him to be out configuring traffic lights or erecting pedestrian crossings, but he absolutely has responsibility to show leadership in sorting out this major mess that has been made of public transport in Dublin. It's clear that neither Dublin city councillors or the various three letter agencies are capable of taking responsibility or showing leadership, therefore the Minister has to intervene.

The political leadership are all front and center for the photo ops, and then disappear when there are problems. The Mayor of Berlin resigned after taking the fall for the Berlin airport fiasco, someone in our political leadership should be resigning because of LUAS cross sh...city.

A Minister has no such powers - he can formulate government policy and approve capital/current spending but it is down to local government and the various agencies to get their act together and come up with solutions to the current problems. The current ABP hearings should hopefully give some clarity about where we go next.

hmmm

LXFlyer wrote: »

He can do no such thing as that would be gross political interference in the operations of the company.

Dublin bus consider themselves a private company when it comes to salaries, but public when it comes to job security. The reality is they are a public company, if the Minister wants them to do something he can order it.

I don't believe however he should order them out of College Green, he has a responsibility to the wider public and he should be standing up to the planners who seem to be obsessed with LUAS cross city.

As Minister, he should be ordering all the various bodies to attend his office early next week to hash out a solution. If he has the cojones, he should order a suspension of LUAS cross city until such time as the service can be properly launched, and he should be putting the pressure on DCC (or whoever) to introduce the changes necessary to make it a success. I think he'd be rewarded politically for taking a "brave" action like ordering a suspension.

markpb

hmmm wrote: »

I think he'd be rewarded politically for taking a "brave" action like ordering a suspension.

Somehow I doubt that.

stop

LXFlyer wrote: »

Pedestrian signals stay red at all junctions while LUAS has a proceed aspect irrespective of whether they’re crossing the tramline or not.

It is deemed a safety issue by either TII or the CRR (Rail Regulator).

I wonder why they deem it a safety issue - same principle does not apply to road vehicles which generally pass pedestrian junctions at higher speeds.

Any idea on why southbound traffic to Grafton St gets a red?

BowSideChamp

Surely having pedestrian crossings with 3min cycle times is a major safety issue. It just encourages Jay walking. 100,000 pedestrians go through college green and they are being ignorned in this debacle.

ncounties

My previous job was as Transport Manager for a well known logistics company across ROI and UK. Responsible for the regular up keep and servicing, it was strictly managed. However, once and a while, on a cold winter/spring day you would come in to find one or two of the fleet with the exact same issue, stopping it from operating. Similar models, with similar mileages tend to have similar flaws at the same time. Any one that says that this is not comparable, think of the de haviland comet. I believe even Casa monitor the Air Corps CN125 as its the highest hours model in the world, to understand when issues happen, and when the flaws will appear on other such craft. Hopefully the issue with be addressed by Alstrom, and we won´t see a repeat of the same issue, but no doubt they´ll breakdown at the same time in future with another similar issue (to each other, not this instance) in our climate.

BowSideChamp

I wouldn't be surprised if the breakdowns are due to trams missing their maintenance checks as they are pressed into service to cover an under resourced line.

ncounties

BowSideChamp wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if the breakdowns are due to trams missing their maintenance checks as they are pressed into service to cover an under resourced line.

I doubt with how heavily regulated other things that could impact the public are (lifts/trucks/planes)that train or tram operated could miss scheduled maintenance. We just had one of the worst two winters Luas would have ever seen, the other place Citidis operate where the weather could be worse is St Petersburg. As the weather plummets, metal contracts, and water expands to make ice. I´d bet my Dublin house that that was the reason three went down... if I could afford one in this market!!!

Idbatterim

I think there is a bit of case when it comes to transport planners and The NTA there is a bit of a case damned if they do, damned if they don't many people used to complain that the Luas weren't connected but now they are they are still complaining.

they should have "connected" them, by tunnel! that said, the main reason for the glacial rate it progresses at, are due to idiotic speed restrictions, not having priority at many small junctions, motorist blocking junctions, just idiotic stuff!

IngazZagni

I was stuck for 5 minutes on the Rosie hacket bridge for 5 minutes yesterday because some eejit of a motorist decided to completely block the track on the south quays. We missed our turn in the sequence. Another luas waiting behind us on Marlborough street. Simple things like this can cause big knock on effects.