Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Brian CivilEng

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Is it unreasonable to suggest there have been negatives?

It's unreasonable to suggest there have only been negatives.

CramCycle

I was on it for the first time in a long time the other day, found it absolutely fine, it appears to have improved alot since it started. Although maybe I just got lucky.

LuckyLloyd

marno21 wrote: »

Well I was under the impression that back in the Transport21 days, Luas BXD (well the city centre part at least) was devised as an ancilliary service to complement Metro North. Instead it has been built on its own cos it had a smaller price tag, with no consideration given to the job it was being given.

Totally unsurprising result.

I completely agree there.

Idbatterim

Ive just watched the a video about Luas cross city, link below. Why cant they simply take seating out of one section of the tram? From Dundrum in (where it was claimed, it become near impossible to get on), most people get off around SSG, is standing about then minutes a problem?! :rolleyes:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/luas-green-line-frustrating-and-unpredictable-in-the-mornings-1.3725160

devnull

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ive just watched the a video about Luas cross city, link below. Why cant they simply take seating out of one section of the tram? From Dundrum in (where it was claimed, it become near impossible to get on), most people get off around SSG, is standing about then minutes a problem?! :rolleyes:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/luas-green-line-frustrating-and-unpredictable-in-the-mornings-1.3725160

The constant anti public transport routine from the Irish Times and the one-sided journalism around it is getting really pathetic now and there's no chance of any balance in any of their pieces it seems.

They were always anti LUAS, both when it opened and when cross city opened, they published a number of highly misleading articles on BusConnects, and continue to give one-sided journalism about LUAS Cross City now.

Obviously the LUAS services are busy and it's right to point that out, but a more balanced report would have noted that 26 trams are being lengthened by 12m and there are a further 8 on order to provide capacity - but I guess those facts will get in a way of a one-sided report.

Also have to laugh tha bit about delays and cutting to a display about them, which if you notice, just before the cut, is about signal failure so has absolutely nothing to do with capacity at all, despite the point that is being made.

Obviously the LUAS does have it's capacity issues and we all know that, but as per usual, the Irish Time is unable to be balanced on Public Transport and negates to report the full situation.

Lord Glentoran

devnull wrote: »

The constant anti public transport routine from the Irish Times and the one-sided journalism around it is getting really pathetic now and there's no chance of any balance in any of their pieces it seems.

They were always anti LUAS, both when it opened and when cross city opened, they published a number of highly misleading articles on BusConnects, and continue to give one-sided journalism about LUAS Cross City now.

Obviously the LUAS services are busy and it's right to point that out, but a more balanced report would have noted that 26 trams are being lengthened by 12m and there are a further 8 on order to provide capacity - but I guess those facts will get in a way of a one-sided report.

Also have to laugh tha bit about delays and cutting to a display about them, which if you notice, just before the cut, is about signal failure so has absolutely nothing to do with capacity at all, despite the point that is being made.

Obviously the LUAS does have it's capacity issues and we all know that, but as per usual, the Irish Time is unable to be balanced on Public Transport and negates to report the full situation.

In my archives are cuttings of the back and forth over the Luas project from the Irish Times from 1996 through 1999. Frank McDonald was in favour of the original phase 1 of Luas, which was to be a continuous line from Tallaght through O’Connell Street to what is now Balally. The letters pages had plenty of harrumphing letters about white elephants, planning density and buses, while I have wondered for years about Garret FitzGerald’s motive in writing article after article slamming the project from every conceivable angle.

Bray Head

devnull wrote: »

The constant anti public transport routine from the Irish Times and the one-sided journalism around it is getting really pathetic now and there's no chance of any balance in any of their pieces it seems.

It's quite astonishing when you think that Metrolink station at Tara Street will mean that the Irish Times office will be literally at the major intersection of Metrolink and the heavy rail network. It will have the best public transport connections in the country!

Bray Head

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

In my archives are cuttings of the back and forth over the Luas project from the Irish Times from 1996 through 1999. Frank McDonald was in favour of the original phase 1 of Luas, which was to be a continuous line from Tallaght through O’Connell Street to what is now Balally. The letters pages had plenty of harrumphing letters about white elephants, planning density and buses, while I have wondered for years about Garret FitzGerald’s motive in writing article after article slamming the project from every conceivable angle.

Maybe so, but in the mid- to late-2000s McDonald was in general negative on Metro North. He went to great lengths to FOI the costs, and also highlighted the impact on SSG that would have come from building a large station there.

FitzGerald, if I recall correctly, frequently made the point that the Luas green line should have gone underground around Ranelagh to deal with capacity issues. In hindsight he was probably right.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

The constant anti public transport routine from the Irish Times and the one-sided journalism around it is getting really pathetic now and there's no chance of any balance in any of their pieces it seems.

They were always anti LUAS, both when it opened and when cross city opened, they published a number of highly misleading articles on BusConnects, and continue to give one-sided journalism about LUAS Cross City now.

Obviously the LUAS services are busy and it's right to point that out, but a more balanced report would have noted that 26 trams are being lengthened by 12m and there are a further 8 on order to provide capacity - but I guess those facts will get in a way of a one-sided report.

Also have to laugh tha bit about delays and cutting to a display about them, which if you notice, just before the cut, is about signal failure so has absolutely nothing to do with capacity at all, despite the point that is being made.

Obviously the LUAS does have it's capacity issues and we all know that, but as per usual, the Irish Time is unable to be balanced on Public Transport and negates to report the full situation.

And anti Metro pieces aswell don't forget. In fairness it's not only them the Indo and the rags have been at it aswell. The Journal have to some extent been the only publication to give fair balanced coverage.

cgcsb

Bray Head wrote: »

It's quite astonishing when you think that Metrolink station at Tara Street will mean that the Irish Times office will be literally at the major intersection of Metrolink and the heavy rail network. It will have the best public transport connections in the country!

No doubt providing all the journos with an excellent commute.

cgcsb

I wonder how quickly metro will fill up and suffer from capacity issues. Given how quickly it happened for luas, about a decade, including a global financial crisis. It won't be long before there's talk of providing relief by extending DART to the airport, building DARTu to provide more cross-liffey capacity and whatnot.

I'm still in the camp that thinks it will never happen for political reasons. The politicians are scared of it, I predict delay and cancellation. Future re-design, rinse and repeat.

marno21

cgcsb wrote: »

I wonder how quickly metro will fill up and suffer from capacity issues. Given how quickly it happened for luas, about a decade, including a global financial crisis. It won't be long before there's talk of providing relief by extending DART to the airport, building DARTu to provide more cross-liffey capacity and whatnot.

I'm still in the camp that thinks it will never happen for political reasons. The politicians are scared of it, I predict delay and cancellation. Future re-design, rinse and repeat.

It's getting to the stage now where that option is getting less and less attractive. The city is choked, there's increasing urbanisation, a shortage of serviced housing, longer and longer commutes, the M50 cannot be widened any further, there are no low hanging fruit Luas lines that they can build instead etc.

They've backed themselves into the corner of it becoming no longer feasible to drop projects like these. The fudge options have been exhausted.

CramCycle

marno21 wrote: »

It's getting to the stage now where that option is getting less and less attractive. The city is choked, there's increasing urbanisation, a shortage of serviced housing, longer and longer commutes, the M50 cannot be widened any further, there are no low hanging fruit Luas lines that they can build instead etc.

They've backed themselves into the corner of it becoming no longer feasible to drop projects like these. The fudge options have been exhausted.

They are now talking about widening the M11 at Bray "in an effort to ease congestion" in the morning and Evening.

FFS, I really worry about the lack of foresight of some of the idiots in charge.

salmocab

cgcsb wrote: »

I wonder how quickly metro will fill up and suffer from capacity issues. Given how quickly it happened for luas, about a decade, including a global financial crisis. It won't be long before there's talk of providing relief by extending DART to the airport, building DARTu to provide more cross-liffey capacity and whatnot.

I'm still in the camp that thinks it will never happen for political reasons. The politicians are scared of it, I predict delay and cancellation. Future re-design, rinse and repeat.

It’s capacity is enormous they can run every 90 seconds if they go driverless, I’d imagine it will start at 3/4 minutes at busy periods so can effectively double just by adding rolling stock. There is also talk of starting with shorter trains that can also be lengthened as the platforms are to be done at 90 mts which also adds a lot of capacity space.

Qrt

salmocab wrote: »

It’s capacity is enormous they can run every 90 seconds if they go driverless, I’d imagine it will start at 3/4 minutes at busy periods so can effectively double just by adding rolling stock. There is also talk of starting with shorter trains that can also be lengthened as the platforms are to be done at 90 mts which also adds a lot of capacity space.

Quick google and some maths tells me that Crossrail will have a capacity of 36,000 pph.

I'm fairly certain we'd need less that half of that for this side of the century, and metrolink is due to be around 24,000 pph (can someone confirm?)

Muahahaha

Bray Head wrote: »

It's quite astonishing when you think that Metrolink station at Tara Street will mean that the Irish Times office will be literally at the major intersection of Metrolink and the heavy rail network. It will have the best public transport connections in the country!

haha that reminds me about 6 or 7 years back I was walking along on Townsend St outside the Irish Times building and up the ramp of the underground car park came editor Geraldine Kennedy in a flashy black Merc. She hit the brakes, looked at me with one eye and waved me along. Somehow I doubt the IT journalists will ever be using a new Metro interchange while they have a nice handy car park right beneath their offices!

Bray Head

Muahahaha wrote: »

haha that reminds me about 6 or 7 years back I was walking along on Townsend St outside the Irish Times building and up the ramp of the underground car park came editor Geraldine Kennedy in a flashy black Merc. She hit the brakes, looked at me with one eye and waved me along.

Uncanny - the precise same thing happened to me too!

In fairness, Fintan O'Toole cannot drive a car.

Hotblack Desiato

Most people can't, but they don't let that stop them.

cgcsb

CramCycle wrote: »

They are now talking about widening the M11 at Bray "in an effort to ease congestion" in the morning and Evening.

FFS, I really worry about the lack of foresight of some of the idiots in charge.

Widening a national road to reduce commuter congestion, a self defeating exercise. The entire transport profession across the world regards this as laughable.

Dardania

cgcsb wrote: »

Widening a national road to reduce commuter congestion, a self defeating exercise. The entire transport profession across the world regards this as laughable.

The voters, however, love it

cgcsb

salmocab wrote: »

It’s capacity is enormous they can run every 90 seconds if they go driverless, I’d imagine it will start at 3/4 minutes at busy periods so can effectively double just by adding rolling stock. There is also talk of starting with shorter trains that can also be lengthened as the platforms are to be done at 90 mts which also adds a lot of capacity space.

Running 60mtr trains at 3/4 minutes? we're already beyond that. The green line has 55m trams doing the same frequency and it's not possible to board some trams at most stops in the rush hour. 2027 is 9 long years away.

salmocab

cgcsb wrote: »

Running 60mtr trains at 3/4 minutes? we're already beyond that. The green line has 55m trams doing the same frequency and it's not possible to board some trams at most stops in the rush hour. 2027 is 9 long years away.

A high floor metro with no driver has a good bit more space than a luas, no wheel arches, no driver cabs and the metro is wider.

Sam Russell

salmocab wrote: »

A high floor metro with no driver has a good bit more space than a luas, no wheel arches, no driver cabs and the metro is wider.

And less seats and more standing room gives even more capacity. More frequency also increases capacity.

Zebra3

marno21 wrote: »

It's getting to the stage now where that option is getting less and less attractive. The city is choked, there's increasing urbanisation, a shortage of serviced housing, longer and longer commutes, the M50 cannot be widened any further, there are no low hanging fruit Luas lines that they can build instead etc.

They've backed themselves into the corner of it becoming no longer feasible to drop projects like these. The fudge options have been exhausted.

I think there's also a younger generation of politicans in power who I'd guess have travelled through foreign cities in their college years as opposed to the political generation on the way out that has only seen foreign cities from the back of a limo.

Not building the metro is getting close to the stage of political suicide.

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

Not building the metro is getting close to the stage of political suicide.

They'll have nothing to worry about, they'll be drawing their pensions by the time their inaction is really noticed.

tom1ie

Zebra3 wrote: »

I think there's also a younger generation of politicans in power who I'd guess have travelled through foreign cities in their college years as opposed to the political generation on the way out that has only seen foreign cities from the back of a limo.

Not building the metro is getting close to the stage of political suicide.

Oh I’m not so sure about that to be honest. I think with our economy not breaking even at the moment due to massive overspend on maintanence (day to day spending not capital) with brexit, and local political opposition etc I can see metrolink going the same way as metro north.
I really hope I’m wrong by the way.

Hotblack Desiato

Zebra3 wrote: »

as opposed to the political generation on the way out that has only seen foreign cities bogland from the back of a limo.

fyp

Inaction is only political suicide for them if we make it so.

Idbatterim

Originally Posted by marno21 View Post
It's getting to the stage now where that option is getting less and less attractive. The city is choked, there's increasing urbanisation, a shortage of serviced housing, longer and longer commutes, the M50 cannot be widened any further, there are no low hanging fruit Luas lines that they can build instead etc.

They've backed themselves into the corner of it becoming no longer feasible to drop projects like these. The fudge options have been exhausted.

I use the m50 most days, it appears to me that they could have fit another lane in, and it could be done relatively simply now... basically continue the auxiliary on as the mainline and there is enough space to do this between the bridge support structures between most junctions, why they didnt do this the first time round seems madness to me, the extra cost would have been minimal in the scheme of things, given that you were going to get an extra bloody lane!

markpb

Idbatterim wrote: »

basically continue the auxiliary on as the mainline and there is enough space to do this between the bridge support structures between most junctions

Do you mean a lane that would come and go between bridges? That would be a terrible idea, the resultant merging before each bridge and exit would murder the capacity of the entire motorway.

Sam Russell

markpb wrote: »

Do you mean a lane that would come and go between bridges? That would be a terrible idea, the resultant merging before each bridge and exit would murder the capacity of the entire motorway.

If the 'extra lane' that reappears between bridges is the hard lane, it would not be such a problem. They do this on the M25 around London.