Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

monument

Wild Bill wrote: »

There's lots of land along the canal to add another set of tracks.

What part of the canal?

Wild Bill wrote: »

In fact they could swing right at Suir Rd and build a line to meet the Dort at Barrow St.

There's an eye watering 12 junctions in the just under 5km between Suir Road and Barrow Street, and six of those are in last 2km between Portobello and Grand Canal Street!

Winters wrote: »

They looked at that, not feasible. A mixture of gradients at the canal crossings as well as traffic/junction issues. Also low ridership and low density along the route. The CBA didnt add up.

There's also a space issue, the city council found it hard enough to fit in the cycle route from Portobello east.

LaFlammeRouge wrote: »

A fairly mad idea.

The South Circular Road etc route? The not that mad at all. But only after the other tram, metro and Dart lines shown were in place, or at least towards the end of building those other projects.

Wild Bill

monument wrote: »

What part of the canal?

The bit between Blackhorse and Suir Rd. Where the Lucan and Red Lines will collide.

Wild Bill

monument wrote: »

There's an eye watering 12 junctions in the just under 5km between Suir Road and Barrow Street, and six of those are in last 2km between Portobello and Grand Canal Street!

They could run an elevated section from Portobello.

OssianSmyth

Video of talk about Luas BXD from Engineers Ireland
http://www.engineersireland.ie/services/web-tv/title-11019-en.html

dowlingm

Well, we've solved the problem about where to source wirefree trams to be stabled at Broombridge Depot:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/index.php?id=44&no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=14832&cHash=5f6a9e0b79a3c5b75f59e629f2f42bb1

RUSSIA: Rolling stock and armoured fighting vehicle manufacturer Uralvagonzavod has signed a letter of intent with Bombardier to establish a joint venture to build trams in Yekaterinburg. Uralvagonzavod would assemble artic­ulated cars with a floor height 350 mm above rail and a capacity for up to 210 passengers.

Group subsidiary Uraltransmash already builds trams for the Russian market, including some bogie cars with a low-floor section. The company is now planning to develop battery-powered trams, equipped with lithium-ion batteries that are expected to last for 13 years and more than 600 000 km of operation.

grimbergen

Is the work on eden quay related to the construction of the new bridge or is it for something else?

monument

grimbergen wrote: »

Is the work on eden quay related to the construction of the new bridge or is it for something else?

The new bridge, which is not directly part of the BXD project.

Young_gunner

Any indication on when the BXD line will be complete? ie one can travel directly from, say leopardstown, to the Point ? I read on some other thread that it would be 2015 or so.

Telchak

Young_gunner wrote: »

Any indication on when the BXD line will be complete?

Current plan is for it to start in 2015, construction for probably two or three years. I think many suspect that this date was just the government kicking the can down the road, as the project will probably be granted (or refused) planning permission later this year.

one can travel directly from, say leopardstown, to the Point ?

At least initially, the plan is for the Green and Red lines to continue working separately, there won't be routes that use both lines.

Jehuty42

Young_gunner wrote: »

Any indication on when the BXD line will be complete? ie one can travel directly from, say leopardstown, to the Point ? I read on some other thread that it would be 2015 or so.

For that particular journey, you would get off at O'Connell St stop(opp GPO) and then walk to Abbey for a tram onwards to the Point.

dowlingm

The Engineers Ireland talk linked above is well worth a look even though it's 150mb download plus the webex client.

Young_gunner - the talk mentioned above discusses the reasons why there won't be through running in all directions such as Red Line stops being too close to the junctions and not able to be moved for other reasons. LUAS F2 (Liberties) if ever built would be able to have through running via a delta junction at Trinity similar to the one between Busaras and Connolly. The delta is planned to be installed during BXD works.

cgcsb

I'd say opening date is set around 2017-2018. But assuming a positive outcome from ABP, it could be done by 2015

Wild Bill

cgcsb wrote: »

I'd say opening date is set around 2017-2018. But assuming a positive outcome from ABP, it could be done by 2015

ABP don't have any money!

And the current regime prefers to spend every billion we borrow on bailing out the Euro banking system :mad:

Let's just say we won't see any trams on O'Connell St this side of the next election. Or on the other side 'cos the recovery can only begin after default.

So...2020 would be my guess for the earliest date. :cool:

strassenwo!f

dowlingm wrote: »

The Engineers Ireland talk linked above is well worth a look even though it's 150mb download plus the webex client.

With the utmost respect to the learned folk at Engineers Ireland, if they really want to get their ideas across they might try finding some alternative to a 150 mb download.

dowlingm wrote: »

Young_gunner - the talk mentioned above discusses the reasons why there won't be through running in all directions such as Red Line stops being too close to the junctions and not able to be moved for other reasons. LUAS F2 (Liberties) if ever built would be able to have through running via a delta junction at Trinity similar to the one between Busaras and Connolly. The delta is planned to be installed during BXD works.

Perhaps you can help those of us who don't wan't to wait for a 150 mb download. These red line stops being too close to junctions for what? For a right or left turn? As I understood it, there will be right and left turns to enable trams to travel to depots and between lines, so there's no problem with the tracks. What's the problem with the stops?

strassenwo!f

dowlingm wrote: »

LUAS F2 (Liberties) if ever built would be able to have through running via a delta junction at Trinity similar to the one between Busaras and Connolly. The delta is planned to be installed during BXD works.

By the way, I presume this is the proposed city end of the Lucan Luas. There would apparently be through running, but to where?

Not intending to pick on you by any means, DowlingM, but just looking for a few answers. I'm not convinced that the folk in Clyde Road have looked at this thoroughly, despite the massive file size.

cgcsb

Wild Bill wrote: »

ABP don't have any money!

And the current regime prefers to spend every billion we borrow on bailing out the Euro banking system :mad:

Let's just say we won't see any trams on O'Connell St this side of the next election. Or on the other side 'cos the recovery can only begin after default.

So...2020 would be my guess for the earliest date. :cool:

ABP don't pay for the luas.

dowlingm

To be fair to the EI folks they were probably using Webex to do a live webinar - I've used the same service with my firm. An ARF is what you're stuck with at the end unless you do a conversion which might cause more bloat or image degradation. They could have a streamed host but the nice thing about the download is it can be archived against a future day when the site gets blown away because someone thought it wasn't needed any more.

The issue with moving one of the Red stops is that on the far side there's a crossover which they feel they need to retain. In some of the other directions the necessary curve radius would force a property take. Finally, there are traffic concerns about the need for trams to turn and thereby impede traffic on O'Connell St south of the spire where shared running will be used. The RPA weighed more frequent trams running primarily NS and EW against the inconvenience of a transfer and decided that was the option to take.

They also discussed issues like ABP's request for info on wireless trams, interface with MN/DU and Dawson St where ABP is inclined to an island stop but RPA don't want to build a narrow stop as they think it won't have enough capacity for the likely volume and the street isn't wide enough for what they want. I know it's a big d/l but it's 1.5hrs I think and highly informative. I've already directed several people in Toronto to it since light rail is a highly politicised issue and it's good for the people who want to see more of it to get an example of an expanding system and how they approach the issues in play even if they are not directly applicable.

F was split into F1 Lucan and F2 Liberties. I'm not sure what the exact traffic pattern would be for F2 at Trinity, I'd have to go back to the presentation to see if that was made clear. It could be that they wanted some F2 sets to start from Broombridge Depot?

Wild Bill

cgcsb wrote: »

ABP don't pay for the luas.

Yes, I was vaguely aware of that...but thanks anyway for sharing...:rolleyes:

cgcsb

despite having no money, is the RPA still investigating the possibility of an onward connection to Finglas and possibly onwards to any new settlement that might spring up out further along the N2? would be interesting to see what route options they come up with.

Victor

cgcsb wrote: »

despite having no money, is the RPA still investigating the possibility of an onward connection to Finglas and possibly onwards to any new settlement that might spring up out further along the N2? would be interesting to see what route options they come up with.

As far as Metro West north of Finglas has been studied, but nothing beyond that to my knowledge.

monument

In the Engineers Ireland BXD talk it was said that they have looked at exit strategies out of Broombridge.

Wild Bill

monument wrote: »

In the Engineers Ireland BXD talk it was said that they have looked at exit strategies out of Broombridge.

Link???

monument

Wild Bill wrote: »

monument wrote: »

In the Engineers Ireland BXD talk it was said that they have looked at exit strategies out of Broombridge.

Link???

They don't however outline any detail.

I was a bit disappointed with the talk, maybe because I already know an unhealthy amount about Luas and BXD, they spent way too long talking about Luas to date (more than half of the video), and even after that it just seem to lack detail.

http://www.engineersireland.ie/services/web-tv/title-11019-en.html

AngryLips

What I got from the presentation in the link is that the Cherrywood extension, and the anticipated development along the route not materialising, has hurt the operational profitability of Luas in 2011. Maybe they should mothball the extension completely if this impact continues?

The other interesting point was the mention of a single public transport levy for all of Dublin to replace the various levies for the various projects in the works. I wonder, if implemented, how this will change the provision of public transport in Dublin in future developments. I expect this change will have the biggest impact on DB. Does anyone know how DB has historically addressed public transport needs in new developments? Has it historically engaged with new developments to meet demand or has it always been a case of a more reactionary approach?

Victor

If Dublin Bus saw the provision of a service as financially worth their while, it was provided. Other time, where providing a full service wouldn't have been justified from the start, a developer may have paid the difference- I think some deal along these lines was made for the Rathborne / Royal Canal Park development.

AngryLips

The other interesting point (which is evident in the plans) is the fact that there is a delta junction on the northern split of the central portion of the loop but no corresponding delta junction on the southern split. Effectively, what this means is that the Luas operators have the option to run a decreased service along the northern section (BXD) without affecting services on the current green line. Why is there such a requirement?

Wild Bill

AngryLips wrote: »

Maybe they should mothball the extension completely if this impact continues?

No way! From Ballyogan to Sandyford it is heavily used. Maybe turn the trains back at Ballyogan?

Simple enough to do.

They just opened (a year late) a park+ride at Carrickmines - dunno if it has made any difference.

What they really need is a P+R at Cherrywood/Brides Glen where the terminus is located on the old Harcout St line - in the middle of nowhere - but right beside an M50 junction.

darkman2

Anyone else think it's a mistake to link the posh luas line with the red line? I heard someone mention this to me and they have genuine concerns about the security implications on the red line that don't exist on the green line.

Young_gunner

no concerns in that regard, i just wish they'd hurry up and link them

Wild Bill

Young_gunner wrote: »

no concerns in that regard, i just wish they'd hurry up and link them

Hey! We don't want Skangers on the Green Line! :cool: