Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

trellheim

This
http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/01-ALIGNMENT_PROPERTY/21_BXD_P_29_D-E.pdf

and
http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/01-ALIGNMENT_PROPERTY/22_BXD_P_29_E-0.pdf

Are the railway orders pics clearly showing on the level crossing constitution hill

trellheim

here is the latest presentation to BID

http://www.dublincitybid.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Luas-Broombridge-Presentation_BID-Areas-Nov-2012.pdf

I'd love to know how Marks and Spencer on Grafton St will do
loading and unloading, they run artics to the loading dock at the back

this is BID concerns ( all soundd reasonable to me ! )

AngryLips

I wonder if it will result in extra feed to the Maynooth line and if we'll see a corresponding adjustment in frequencies by IR.

FreudianSlippers

trellheim wrote: »

This
http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/01-ALIGNMENT_PROPERTY/21_BXD_P_29_D-E.pdf

and
http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/01-ALIGNMENT_PROPERTY/22_BXD_P_29_E-0.pdf

Are the railway orders pics clearly showing on the level crossing constitution hill

Did they do a CPO for the Maxol garage there on Constitution Hill?

Victor

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Did they do a CPO for the Maxol garage there on Constitution Hill?

Bloody lawyers not able to read drawings! :pac:

The tracks go right through it. It's the pink site here: http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/01-ALIGNMENT_PROPERTY/22_BXD_P_29_E-0.pdf

L1011

Are they going to have to do the customary "leave idle for a bloody eternity" that petrol stations need before you're allow build buildings on their sites?

Sponge Bob

They can run a horse market on it in the interim as is traditional in Dublin.

trellheim

also correct me if I'm wrong but that's a big drop and climb in < 100 m ?

Wasn't there a canal spur crossed on an overbridge there, that terminated in the Basin ? ... Will have a look at old OSI


Edit : yes there was, but it wasn't the basin, there was a harbour in front of where the depot is now ... so there is form for a bridge being there

look at http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,714833,735196,7,7

this
http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/02-STRUCTURES/12_BXD_ST_29_E-01.pdf

shows the stop off in more detail. I wonder why there are two maps ( 12 and 13 ? )

FreudianSlippers

Victor wrote: »

Bloody lawyers not able to read drawings! :pac:

The tracks go right through it. It's the pink site here: http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/01-ALIGNMENT_PROPERTY/22_BXD_P_29_E-0.pdf

Lol that's what I mean though. The tracks go right through it, so I'm just wondering if they CPO'd the site or if the owners sold up voluntarily.

Victor

The ups and dons are shown here: http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/01-ALIGNMENT_PROPERTY/02_BXD_LN_29_0-0.pdf here: http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/01-ALIGNMENT_PROPERTY/03_BXD_LN_29_A-D.pdf (detour) and here: http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/01-ALIGNMENT_PROPERTY/10_BXD_LN_30_0-0.pdf

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Lol that's what I mean though. The tracks go right through it, so I'm just wondering if they CPO'd the site or if the owners sold up voluntarily.

Ah, they are entitled to CPO it, but they might just do it by agreement.

strassenwo!f

trellheim wrote: »

also correct me if I'm wrong but that's a big drop and climb in < 100 m ?

Wasn't there a canal spur crossed on an overbridge there, that terminated in the Basin ? ... Will have a look at old OSI


Edit : yes there was, but it wasn't the basin, there was a harbour in front of where the depot is now ... so there is form for a bridge being there

look at http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,714833,735196,7,7

this
http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/02-STRUCTURES/12_BXD_ST_29_E-01.pdf

shows the stop off in more detail. I wonder why there are two maps ( 12 and 13 ? )

It is indeed a big drop and climb in a short distance. Presumably it's doable, but it will certainly increase the wear and tear on the trams. One wonders if, in the long term, a bridge might not be a better idea.

Boscod

Sorry for going off topic on this one, however would anyone know what year that old OSI map was created?
Thanks,

Victor

Boscod wrote: »

Sorry for going off topic on this one, however would anyone know what year that old OSI map was created?
Thanks,

It wil depend on when the individual area was mapped. #Of those on the website:

HISTORIC 6" - about 1840
HISTORIC 6" B&W - about 1850
HISTORIC 25" - about 1907

monument

trellheim wrote: »

also correct me if I'm wrong but that's a big drop and climb in < 100 m ?

Big drop/climb between Broadstone and Domnick Street, and, to top it off, a bend at the top. The dip for the underpass to allow bus depot access to be segragated does not seem even half as notable on the graphic.

trellheim wrote: »

Wasn't there a canal spur crossed on an overbridge there, that terminated in the Basin ? ...

strassenwo!f wrote: »

It is indeed a big drop and climb in a short distance. Presumably it's doable, but it will certainly increase the wear and tear on the trams. One wonders if, in the long term, a bridge might not be a better idea.

There was a canal crossing and, later, just a road bridge but it is a good deal higher than the current road level.

The Royal Canal Bank (the street and park where the canal used to run) is about at the same level as the front of the Broadstone building.

I could be wrong, but: If the there was going to be an overbridge for Luas then I'd guess the run up to Broadstone would have to be even steeper or the alignment would run out of space before getting high enough or it'd get too close too the doors of Broadstone (tho a tram stop at the doors of Broadstone would be nice).

It might not be impossable to make the climb and overbridge, but it might involve having to cut off Westren Way, partly or fully.

trellheim

I was looking for the traffic management plan. Have DCC issued it yet? I can't find it. I was sure BID and a few others would have input

LXFlyer

Given works are not due to start until Q2 of next year, no they haven't. They are still under formulation.

Refer to the first project update:
http://www.rpa.ie/Documents/Luas%20Line%20BXD/Project%20Updates/Luas%20Broombridge%20Project%20Update%20No%201_180912.pdf

I imagine that it will be early Spring before we hear anything.

monument

monument wrote: »

There was a canal crossing and, later, just a road bridge but it is a good deal higher than the current road level.

The Royal Canal Bank (the street and park where the canal used to run) is about at the same level as the front of the Broadstone building.

Here's this visualised in Street View:

monument wrote: »

I could be wrong, but: If the there was going to be an overbridge for Luas then I'd guess the run up to Broadstone would have to be even steeper or the alignment would run out of space before getting high enough or it'd get too close too the doors of Broadstone (tho a tram stop at the doors of Broadstone would be nice).

It might not be impossable to make the climb and overbridge, but it might involve having to cut off Westren Way, partly or fully.

Looking at Google Street View: The extra incline which would be needed to bring Luas over the road may not be as bad as I was thinking -- and you could also cut into the road under the bridge. But it would still be an extra incline, at grade crossing in the depot and a good deal of extra cost and disruption on the road.

cgcsb

snapped this a few days ago, looking well

serfboard

From RTE:

RTE wrote:

The Government has pledged €370m for construction of LUAS linkup line in Dublin city centre.

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar said Cabinet approval was secured for a revised business plan and work will begin in May next year.

He said the project is likely to generate up to 800 jobs during the construction phase with a further 60 permanent jobs.

Funding was included in the Government's capital expenditure plan and An Bord Pleanála gave planning approval last August.

Mr Varadkar said he will now ask the National Transport Authority (NTA) and the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) to prepare for work to start next May with the main construction works starting in 2015 and the line completed in 2017.

"The two Luas lines should have been joined up years ago. It's a privilege for me as Minister for Transport to be able to finish the job" he said.

There will be traffic restrictions during construction and permanent changes are likely such as Dawson St being closed to car traffic and different traffic flows around St Stephen's Green.

Tom Coffey of the Dublin City Business Association says his members want disruption to be contained in "one big bang" of construction rather than a rolling series of road closures in the city centre.

Is this more announcing of the same thing or does it genuinely represent a new development?

AngryLips

Hang on a sec, I thought the RPA was subsumed into the NTA?

Telchak

AngryLips wrote: »

Hang on a sec, I thought the RPA was subsumed into the NTA?

Nope, it's merging with the NRA.

yer man!

4-5 years to build it? seems awfully slow.....

LXFlyer

I'm not posting it a third time - but a full timeline is in the RPA project update posted twice above.

monument

DoT press release from today:

Tuesday 27th November 2012

Work to start on €370M Luas BXD next year after Cabinet approves updated business plan - Varadkar

Minister for Transport, Tourism & Sport Leo Varadkar has announced that work will start on the new Luas BXD line next year after Cabinet discussed the project’s updated business plan today.

Minister Varadkar will now ask the National Transport Authority (NTA) and the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) to prepare for work to start in May 2013.

“This is an important step for the Luas BXD project, which will link up the existing Luas lines and give Dublin an integrated commuter rail network for the first time. Cabinet has discussed the business plan for Luas BXD, and I have now asked the NTA and RPA to proceed with the procurement and contractual arrangements which are necessary to allow the project to proceed in 2013,” Minister Varadkar said.

“The two Luas lines should have been joined up years ago. It’s a privilege for me as Minister for Transport to be able to finish the job.”

Minister Varadkar informed Cabinet today of his intention to approve arrangements for the construction of the LUAS BXD. The Minister’s decision is based on the project’s updated business case, and follows An Bord Pleanála’s decision earlier this year to grant a Railway Order which allows the line to be built.

The project will cost €370 million and is likely to generate up to 800 jobs during the construction phase, with a further 60 permanent jobs. Funding for the project has been included in the Government’s capital allocations under the Infrastructure and Capital Investment 2012-2016 plan, which gave priority to Luas BXD.

Luas BXD is a key infrastructure project and firmly in keeping with the Programme for Government’s intention to rebalance transport policy in favour of public transport.

The first stage of construction – the pre-construction enabling works – is due to start in May 2013 with the main construction works starting in 2015. The project is scheduled for completion in late 2017.

Every effort will be made to minimise the impact of construction works on the business community, road users, pedestrians, and residents in the city centre area. An initial working group comprising the RPA, NTA and Dublin City Council has been established to develop traffic management arrangements during the construction phase.

There are now proposals to set up a broader Project Forum chaired by Minister Varadkar including representatives of traders and businesses, An Garda Síochána, Dublin Bus, Dublin City Council plus the RPA and the NTA.

Ends

Further information

Luas Broombridge will be a key element in an integrated transport system for Dublin. It will create a Luas network by joining the two existing Red and Green lines, extending the network through the city centre to Broombridge. The new line will also integrate with rail services on the Maynooth and Dunboyne lines as well as QBC cross city/city centre bus services. A new bridge over the River Liffey, which is currently under construction, will carry the southbound Luas track from Marlborough Street to Hawkins Street.

When this landmark project is completed Dublin will finally have a truly integrated public transport system.

The recently updated business case which takes account of the conditions attached to the Railway Order, changes to land and construction costs and to revised population and employment projections, concludes that there continues to be a strong transport and economic case for proceeding with the project.

Other sectors of the regional economy are likely to benefit such as those in the construction material supply industry, plant hire and those providing technical support services (Architects, Engineers, Quantity Surveyors). Around 60 new permanent jobs will be created to support the ongoing operation and maintenance of the extended Luas network.

yer man!

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm not posting it a third time - but a full timeline is in the RPA project update posted twice above.

just read that there, seems like the underground work is more substantial than the above ground.

bridgepeople

monument wrote: »

DoT press release from today:

When this landmark project is completed Dublin will finally have a truly integrated public transport system.

Really? I wonder who wrote that line in the press release and if they believe it themselves.

AngryLips

bridgepeople wrote: »

Really? I wonder who wrote that line in the press release and if they believe it themselves.

commencing eye-rolling sequence :rolleyes:

monument

bridgepeople wrote: »

Really? I wonder who wrote that line in the press release and if they believe it themselves.

I was thinking about the same thing when I read "truly integrated". It does offer a good deal of integration, connecting with

• the Red Line, directly
• many bus and coach services, directly or close to directly
• Irish Rail services at Broombridge, directly
• Dart and Commuter services a Tara, with a 300/400m walk
• the two main rail stations with short Luas trips

But it is another piece of the jigsaw, not the end of the puzzle.

Cool Mo D

It wouldn't even take much to bring in a proper integrated network - all they need is decent integrated ticketing of some - transfer tickets and all-operator fare caps.

Geuze

Comparison with Paris tram extension costs

T1 western extension = 5km + 10 new stations, of which two are interchanges

Cost = 150m or 30m per km

http://www.ratp.fr/fr/ratp/c_10219/carte-d-identite/

http://www.ratp.fr/fr/upload/docs/application/pdf/2010-05/depliant_info_grand_public_aout_2009.pdf