Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Quickelles

The Irish Times managed to recycle the luas website info about filling in cellars without any reference to the futile and pathetic Georgian Society objections!

Things are looking up for sanity and rationality.....

MrDerp

Quickelles wrote: »

The Irish Times managed to recycle the luas website info about filling in cellars without any reference to the futile and pathetic Georgian Society objections!

Things are looking up for sanity and rationality.....

Well they said this:

"Archaeological assessment and excavation of the cellars will be carried out and the cellars will be “preserved by record”, the RPA said"

Which is perfect. I was once chatting with an archaeologist who was at the time working on the M3, and I asked how they felt about preservation of ancient sites etc. The reply was pretty blunt: "Tag it, bag it, record it and move on. Unless there's genuinely something preserved in terms of a structure, what are you actually preserving".

It's not like the cellars are a complex array of interconnected subterranean space which could form a future underground tour of Georgian Dublin.

nowecant

From the Herald...

I was wondering why i seen them painting the petrol station a few days ago... Hope they get this sorted ASAP


http://www.herald.ie/news/petrol-station-dispute-stops-luas-project-in-its-tracks-29340265.html

Petrol station dispute stops Luas project in its tracks


A MULTI-million-euro plan to extend the Luas on the northside has been stopped in its tracks by a row over a petrol station.

City authorities have been dealt an enormous blow after councillors blocked plans to relocate a Maxol station in order to pave the way for the new BXD Luas track.

Dublin City Council and the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) want to demolish the station – located on Constitution Hill – in order to extend the Luas from St Stephen's Green to Broombridge in Cabra.

BACKLASH

The authorities had struck a deal with the owners of the garage, which would have seen it relocated to a new site 8km away on the Oscar Traynor Road in Santry.

The move is seen as essential as the station occupies a site that is on the proposed Luas route. However, the plan sparked a furious backlash from residents and families of children who attended Gaelscoil Cholmcille – which is just 100 metres from the proposed new site for the petrol station on the Oscar Traynor Road.

More than 150 people protested outside City Hall on Monday night – and their efforts were rewarded after councillors shelved the plan to relocate the station.

Acting City Manager Phillip Maguire had warned that rejecting the plan would cause the Luas project to be "stopped in its tracks".

While council and transport officials are now scurrying to save the project, parents with children attending the Gaelscoil on the Oscar Traynor Road have described the vote as a "massive victory".

nowecant

This is an idea of what the Broadstone stop is meant to look like. Apparently they were meant to be starting work in this area this morning
http://www.luascrosscity.ie/works-update-broadstone/



The Journal also has a good article on the planned work but does not mention the Maxoil garage dispute. they say the work is meant to commence in parts of the city centre on the 24th June

Quickelles

Well, if the Luas extension is stopped in it's tracks let's get the money to some other "shovel ready" project pronto, and put BXD to the back of the queue.

If they did that maybe councillors would be less inclined to do this sort of thing in future.

Maybe not,

Either way - infrastructure development continues.

strassenwo!f

The move is seen as essential as the station occupies a site that is on the proposed Luas route. However, the plan sparked a furious backlash from residents and families of children who attended Gaelscoil Cholmcille – which is just 100 metres from the proposed new site for the petrol station on the Oscar Traynor Road.

Okay, I know it is the hairdald, so there may be an element of overstatement here, but what's the reason for the "furious backlash" against this petrol station? Is there no precedent in Ireland for a petrol station near to a school? I don't get it.

Amirani

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Okay, I know it is the hairdald, so there may be an element of overstatement here, but what's the reason for the "furious backlash" against this petrol station? Is there no precedent in Ireland for a petrol station near to a school? I don't get it.

"The fumes il b distractin de childeren".

In all seriousness though, people seem to just appeal against things for no reason. I remember when my old secondary school was getting a new sports hall built on its relatively expansive grounds. There were numerous planning applications lodged because of the "big increase in traffic that would follow". Despite the fact that there would be 0 increase as only the students already in the school would be using it? And the growth student population was constrained, meaning there wouldn't be loads of new kids joining. Mind boggling.

nowecant

I would have though many of the locals would have wanted a new shop and petrol station close by. I know i wish i has one.

I dont even know if i should blame the council on this, did someone drop the ball or was it simply the fact that councilors capitulated to the needs of the few over the needs of the many.

Im not sure exactly where it was meant to be located but from looking on google maps there seems a number of sites in the area beside the Northside Shopping Centre where it could be located.

This seemed like a good deal the council was offering the garage, a decent planning arrangement, only to be scuppered by the councilors.

markpb

nowecant wrote: »

Im not sure exactly where it was meant to be located but from looking on google maps there seems a number of sites in the area beside the Northside Shopping Centre where it could be located.

It's described in the article as a land swap so I presume they can't offer any of the other sites because they don't own them. I don't understand why the councillors had a vote at all or why they don't simply CPO the current site and move on.

Pete_Cavan

markpb wrote: »

It's described in the article as a land swap so I presume they can't offer any of the other sites because they don't own them. I don't understand why the councillors had a vote at all or why they don't simply CPO the current site and move on.

The CPO process is likely to be quite long and expensive and I am sure the council and RPA wanted to avoid this. The land swap was probably a win win for the council, they get rid of a piece of land they otherwise had no use for thus allowing a vital piece of infrastructure to proceed.

Stopping the proposed relocation because the new petrol station will be 100m from a school is ridiculous. The Oscar Traynor Road is already quite a busy road and a petrol station is hardly going to add to traffic, it will be looking to attract locals and passing traffic rather than bring in additional traffic from elsewhere. It a petrol station for Gods sake! People in this country will always find a reason to object to even the most reasonable of projects, this "massive victory" will just give them more confidence to fight everything, which is very worrying.

strassenwo!f

Maybe they could have a Mammy O'Rourke solution: build a section from St. Stephen's Green to the top of Dominick Street and a section from Broadstone to Cabra, and then link them up in the distant future...

cgcsb

The part where this is a 'massive victory' is worrying. Seriously surely there must have been planning permission for the new use of land on OT road BEFORE the land swap was finalised, that'd seem pretty basic to me. I suspect the Herald might be simplifying the story.

I also don't understand the nature of the objection to the proposed petrol station. Does anyone have a more detailed source?

monument

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Maybe they could have a Mammy O'Rourke solution: build a section from St. Stephen's Green to the top of Dominick Street and a section from Broadstone to Cabra, and then link them up in the distant future...

Or a Red Cow solution: A shared use forecourt / tram lane.

SeanW

Quickelles wrote: »

Well, if the Luas extension is stopped in it's tracks let's get the money to some other "shovel ready" project pronto, and put BXD to the back of the queue.

That's not a good idea, because AFAIK the only other projects close to "shovel ready" are road projects. BXD was/is the only rail project that even had a look in - Dart Underground and the Metro North are both severely stalled.

Now, I have nothing against road projects - quite the opposite in fact, I've never met an Irish bypass or Grade Separated Dual Carriageway/Motorway plan I didn't like (with the possible exception of the M3), but public transport, especially rail transport, should not be neglected as it is IMO equally important. Especially in the big cities.

If they did that maybe councillors would be less inclined to do this sort of thing in future.

The other problem is that your solution would not punish those actually responsible (the NIMBYs on OT road) but rather those towards the South who could use this link.

AngryLips

SeanW wrote: »

That's not a good idea, because AFAIK the only other projects close to "shovel ready" are road projects. BXD was/is the only rail project that even had a look in - Dart Underground and the Metro North are both severely stalled.

What about northern section of the WRC? :pac::pac::pac:

But seriously, how about the extension to Navan?

SeanW

AngryLips wrote: »

What about northern section of the WRC? :pac::pac::pac:

Don't. Get. Me. Started :mad:

But seriously, how about the extension to Navan?

Is that shovel ready?

nowecant

I would love to see the navan section completed but its no where near shovel ready.

Gumbo

Seen builder erecting hoarding around part of the Broadstone depot this morning.

https://maps.google.ie/maps?q=broadstone&hl=en&ll=53.354527,-6.273491&spn=0.000848,0.001926&sll=53.3834,-8.21775&sspn=9.82435,31.552734&t=h&hnear=Broadstone&z=20

Roughly to the North-West of where the text "Broadstone Hall" is written on the map.

Oasis_Dublin

Will the Broadstone station be opened up now, in the same way Harcourt Street is? I think that, even if the slowness of the on-ground Luas might be an issue in the city centre, it's great that we are making use of these attractive looking old stations. Terrible to see it in the state it's in now. Hopefully they act upon making use of it.

grimbergen

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Will the Broadstone station be opened up now, in the same way Harcourt Street is? I think that, even if the slowness of the on-ground Luas might be an issue in the city centre, it's great that we are making use of these attractive looking old stations. Terrible to see it in the state it's in now. Hopefully they act upon making use of it.

Dundrum station the same, they've made a lovely job of restoring it. In fairness, the old HArcourt station was open for business long before the luas arrived

Oasis_Dublin

grimbergen wrote: »

Dundrum station the same, they've made a lovely job of restoring it. In fairness, the old HArcourt station was open for business long before the luas arrived

Aye true. I just like the idea of making use of those magnificent buildings. Whether it be rail related, or not, they should be made use of.

TheBandicoot

Some clearance work in the Broombridge waste ground is going on as well.

LXFlyer

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Aye true. I just like the idea of making use of those magnificent buildings. Whether it be rail related, or not, they should be made use of.

Broadstone is used - It is Bus Eireann's head office.

Quickelles

lxflyer wrote: »

Broadstone is used - It is Bus Eireann's head office.

Lot of Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann buses parked there. Never realised it was a bus depot.

LXFlyer

Quickelles wrote: »

Lot of Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann buses parked there. Never realised it was a bus depot.

The Broadstone station building is Bus Eireann's head office.

The trainshed is their main workshop, and the rest of the area is their Dublin depot, and also a Dublin Bus depot as well, and location of Dublin Bus central control centre.

It is certainly not true to say that they are "unused".

JupiterKid

Broadstone has been a Dublin Bus depot since the early 1970s.

Oasis_Dublin

Sorry, I slightly confused the issue there! I mean properly used, and made available to the public. Not hidden behind flats and an Esso garage, with windows bricked up. I don't mean Office Space. I mean, which station is more well known to Dubs; Harcourt Street Station or Broadstone?

nowecant

I think it would be a great Venue, like the Point was, or perhaps as a Museum? Either way I believe it should be part of DIT, a venue that size would be very useful for things like graduation, holding International Conferences and some lectures etc.

As an expandable concert venue I think it would bring a lot of life to the area, especially in the evening and night. This would help to keep the place active, something that many of these types of developments face a huge problem with, e.g. Smithfield, the Point Village. It would also make good use of the new infrastructure, such as the Luas and new DIT Parking.

From what I have seen of the plans, and this is just my interpretation, I believe it is only a matter of time before both the Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann garages are added to the DIT master plan. So maybe in future these buildings will be actively used by the public.

LXFlyer

I fervently hope that you are wrong.

Having a bus depot that close to the city is invaluable. Closing it would mean significant additional costs arising from dead running to/from depots.

BowWow

http://www.thejournal.ie/marlborough-st-luas-966159-Jun2013/