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Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

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    #1922
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    The trams rarely stop for a minute at a stop.

    The minute is travel from the preceding stop + dwell time at the stop.

    Each stop adds to the travel time as:
    Additional time to decelerate on stop approach + Time at stop + Additional time to accelerate away from stop.

    Hence a minimum estimate of a minute/stop.
    Judging from the times on the rest of the green line (which is also quite segregated as the Dominick - Broombridge stretch will be), it'd be an underestimate.


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    #1923
    Bray Head
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    Broombridge - SSG is down as 21 minutes on the cross city page.
    SSG - Broombridge is 24 minutes I think, though I can't find where it says that at the moment.
    There are 6 stops North of Parnell and that's the longer section of track, however there are fewer delays in the form of road crossings etc.

    Allow a minute per stop (minimum) for those 6 and the time SSG - Parnell is maximum 18 mins Northbound and 15 minutes Southbound, probably less.
    It just seems a shame that SSG-Dominick will be so slow.

    The frequent stopping will presumably reduce capacity compared to what could be carried on 90% of the 'full' green line Carrickmines-SSG and Dominick-Broombridge.

    Some kind of underground rail will eventually be needed in Dublin.....


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    #1924
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Deedsie wrote: »
    It is already needed, it's shameful that DART underground has not already been built.
    It's even more shameful that there are no firm plans to build it, and the next rail opening in Dublin after Luas BXD is in 2027.

    Meanwhile, the M50 grinds to a halt.


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    #1925
    fionnsci
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭fionnsci


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    That is a year old

    Slightly off topic but I noticed this yesterday when that old link to Irish Rail's plans to link Dublin Airport to cities around Ireland was shared. Before it was pointed out that it was a year old (which I didn't immediately notice!), I googled it to see if there was another source.

    BAM, Belfast Telegraph had an article about Irish Rail linking Dublin Airport to Belfast online yesterday (still visible when you google Irish Rail https://www.google.ie/search?q=irish+rail&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjXm-Wch-rOAhXkCcAKHbTTAo0Q_AUICCgB&biw=1366&bih=643 )

    But the article is now dead - http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/irish-rail-plans-to-link-dublin-airport-with-belfast-35004120.html

    So anyway, I'm just wondering, is it likely that the Belfast Telegraph were monitoring this page for news, saw old info presented as new, ran with it, then had to climb down when they realised it was old?

    Again, sorry for the off topic but it does relate to activity on this thread and I just felt in the mood for some amateur detective work.


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    #1926
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    marno21 wrote: »
    It's even more shameful that there are no firm plans to build it, and the next rail opening in Dublin after Luas BXD is in 2027.

    Meanwhile, the M50 grinds to a halt.
    I understand what you're trying to say but DU, MNorth and Luas will have no effect whatsoever on the M50.


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    #1927
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    spacetweek wrote: »
    I understand what you're trying to say but DU, MNorth and Luas will have no effect whatsoever on the M50.

    Surely du and the 2 additional dart lines would have an affect


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    #1928
    ongarboy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ongarboy


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Surely du and the 2 additional dart lines would have an affect

    Aren't those lines all for city centre starting or ending routes though? How many people use the M50 to go to the city centre? The M50 is used primarily for orbital journeys, outer suburb to suburb or to bypass the city altogether (eg Munster/south Leinster going to Dublin airport etc)


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    #1929
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    ongarboy wrote: »
    Aren't those lines all for city centre starting or ending routes though? How many people use the M50 to go to the city centre? The M50 is used primarily for orbital journeys, outer suburb to suburb or to bypass the city altogether (eg Munster/south Leinster going to Dublin airport etc)

    You've got options such as Inchicore to Clontarf or Malahide or Drumcondra to the fast part of both the red line and green lines


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    #1930
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,408 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    spacetweek wrote: »
    I understand what you're trying to say but DU, MNorth and Luas will have no effect whatsoever on the M50.

    Er yeah, they'll have a pretty serious impact alright. Once most of Dublin's areterial routes are served by frequent rail with high capacity, Dublin Bus will become more orientated towards orbital and feeder routes. It's the network effect, new lines in a transport system don't act in isolation.


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    #1931
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,078 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Er yeah, they'll have a pretty serious impact alright. Once most of Dublin's areterial routes are served by frequent rail with high capacity, Dublin Bus will become more orientated towards orbital and feeder routes. It's the network effect, new lines in a transport system don't act in isolation.

    I fear the network effect is something which is not marketed well enough and way too many people in power don't get.


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    #1932
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    monument wrote: »
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Er yeah, they'll have a pretty serious impact alright. Once most of Dublin's areterial routes are served by frequent rail with high capacity, Dublin Bus will become more orientated towards orbital and feeder routes. It's the network effect, new lines in a transport system don't act in isolation.

    I fear the network effect is something which is not marketed well enough and way too many people in power don't get.

    Big time astute point
    It needs to be communicated in a simple manner so that politicians can appreciate it


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    #1933
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Dardania wrote: »
    Big time astute point
    It needs to be communicated in a simple manner so that politicians can appreciate it

    Big choo choo make better big brum brums?


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    #1934
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Dardania wrote: »
    Big time astute point
    It needs to be communicated in a simple manner so that politicians can appreciate it

    Big choo choo make better big brum brums?
    Needs some picture books!

    In cases like this, I'm all for the traditional junket abroad to some hospitable country where they have such a network, so that people can grasp the idea, champion it when they get back. Alas, I feel we would begrudge that...


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    #1935
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Dardania wrote: »
    Needs some picture books!

    In cases like this, I'm all for the traditional junket abroad to some hospitable country where they have such a network, so that people can grasp the idea, champion it when they get back. Alas, I feel we would begrudge that...

    I'm pretty much nearly every person in this state has been to a other European city maybe just get pictures from their holidays and say remember how easy it was to get around


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    #1936
    McAlban
    Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭McAlban


    Dardania wrote: »
    Needs some picture books!

    In cases like this, I'm all for the traditional junket abroad to some hospitable country where they have such a network, so that people can grasp the idea, champion it when they get back. Alas, I feel we would begrudge that...

    Yep, I wonder how Shane Ross got around Rio...

    Would send him to Copenhagen and Say Shaney Boy, you can only use the Public Transport.


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    #1937
    BOHtox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭BOHtox


    Are all Luas lines two railed? As in one going in each direction or will there be a scenario where Luas A will have to stop to let Luas B go by and when Luas B frees up the line then Luas A can go?


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    #1938
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,703 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    BOHtox wrote: »
    Are all Luas lines two railed? As in one going in each direction or will there be a scenario where Luas A will have to stop to let Luas B go by and when Luas B frees up the line then Luas A can go?

    All double tracked so no scenario as described.


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    #1939
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    BOHtox wrote: »
    Are all Luas lines two railed? As in one going in each direction or will there be a scenario where Luas A will have to stop to let Luas B go by and when Luas B frees up the line then Luas A can go?

    Jamie2k9 is totally right, however, there will be sections that "look" single tracked, as the two track will separate, and go down different roads for reasons of space.


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    #1940
    mmclo
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭mmclo


    There appear to be continuous links southbound from red to green on OCS and Marlborough St. can trams from red line "turn south" there? If not wouldn't this have been a good idea, south and northbound?


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    #1941
    Telchak
    Registered Users Posts: 888 ✭✭✭Telchak


    mmclo wrote: »
    There appear to be continuous links southbound from red to green on OCS and Marlborough St. can trams from red line "turn south" there? If not wouldn't this have been a good idea, south and northbound?

    This is for potential rolling stock transfers between the two lines.


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    #1942
    strassenwo!f
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    mmclo wrote: »
    There appear to be continuous links southbound from red to green on OCS and Marlborough St. can trams from red line "turn south" there? If not wouldn't this have been a good idea, south and northbound?

    Yes, it would have been a good idea.

    For some reason the planners don't seem to have left open the option of a direct tram between Sandyford and Heuston or between Broombridge and Heuston.

    I've wondered about this and they are possibly trying to help people get used to the idea of changing, as the city's network develops, which is good, overall.

    But if the option exists to create direct links for occasional trams between Heuston and Broombridge or Sandyford/Cherrywood, it should be used.

    In the absence of any underground in Dublin, Dresden might be a suitable example to follow for use of tram lines.


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    #1943
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,873 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    marno21 wrote: »
    It's even more shameful that there are no firm plans to build it, and the next rail opening in Dublin after Luas BXD is in 2027.

    Meanwhile, the M50 grinds to a halt.
    McAlban wrote: »
    Yep, I wonder how Shane Ross got around Rio...

    Would send him to Copenhagen and Say Shaney Boy, you can only use the Public Transport.

    Wouldn't send him to Cph. He'd say all this PT lark is grand. Give him and all his fellow ministers a week about Dublin with regular working hours and no cars.


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    #1944
    fionnsci
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭fionnsci


    I don't think having the two lines linked so that trams can move from one onto the other would actually result in fewer people changing trams. It would just mean that the person travelling from Sandyford to Phibsborough would have to change tram instead of the person travelling from Sandyford to Heuston. If that makes sense. I've managed to confuse myself in writing that.


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    #1945
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,343 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    fionnsci wrote: »
    I don't think having the two lines linked so that trams can move from one onto the other would actually result in fewer people changing trams. It would just mean that the person travelling from Sandyford to Phibsborough would have to change tram instead of the person travelling from Sandyford to Heuston. If that makes sense. I've managed to confuse myself in writing that.

    I think people just mean that an option for trams to change line as an occasional thing maybe special events or something although as most of these would probably be based around OCS or the new pedestrianized (mostly) college green it would rarely if ever be needed.


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    #1946
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    strassenwo!f wrote: »
    Yes, it would have been a good idea.

    It's an impractical idea how often would such a tram run? What about phisbrough to the point or the point to the green and beyond. You'd end up with 1 tram every half hour actually going end to end


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    #1947
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    strassenwo!f wrote: »
    Yes, it would have been a good idea.

    It's an impractical idea how often would such a tram run? What about phisbrough to the point or the point to the green and beyond. You'd end up with 1 tram every half hour actually going end to end

    I don't think anyone meant scheduling them like that, just putting the tracks in so you had the option for events etc.


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    #1948
    riadach
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭riadach


    I suppose the option is there if after a few years it's shown that more people are changing than staying on the main line.


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    #1949
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,691 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    riadach wrote: »
    I suppose the option is there if after a few years it's shown that more people are changing than staying on the main line.

    No it isn't.

    One connection can only be used by a reversing movement due to the tight geometry involved.

    The lines will only operate separately.


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    #1950
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,662 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    No it's only for exceptional use to transfer trams between one line and the other. Too tight (and therefore slow) to be used in scheduled service.

    Ya beat me to it lxflyer!

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #1951
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭markpb


    lxflyer wrote:
    One connection can only be used by a reversing movement due to the tight geometry involved.

    How will that work? (Out of curiosity)


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