Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

spacetweek

marno21 wrote: »

It's time to forget the notion that Metro North is a rail link to the Airport - it's so much more. Swords/Lissenhall/Airport/DCU/Ballymun/Santry/Northwood etc. Also opens up a lot of land in north Dublin for housing with a direct link to the CC.

The other thing Metro North offers is connectivity at Drumcondra and SSG. 747 doesn't do that

Agreed, and in fact I think in some ways describing this as an Airport Metro has made people take their eye off the ball. Airport passengers will only be a sideshow on that line. It's a Northside Underground Line that will benefit the whole northside.

AngryLips

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://m.luas.ie/times/frequency/green-line.html
I thought 3 minutes was maximum frequency

Even during rush hour, a three minute interval is an exception and not the rule on the red line. I imagine this is less the case on the green line. What really gets me is that on Sundays and other offpeak times the trams would often travel at close to 70% capacity yet this is still considered insufficient to increase it from a ten minute frequency ...like what will it take? For there to be standing room only all of the time before any improvements will be made?

Jamie2k9

AngryLips wrote: »

Even during rush hour, a three minute interval is an exception and not the rule on the red line. I imagine this is less the case on the green line. What really gets me is that on Sundays and other offpeak times the trams would often travel at close to 70% capacity yet this is still considered insufficient to increase it from a ten minute frequency ...like what will it take? For there to be standing room only all of the time before any improvements will be made?

TBH in theory Green Line is likely that bit more restrictive as I believe it's signaled station to station given the high speed it operates at, I don't think I have every saw more than one tram on the same section once it goes to largely segregated after Harcourt.

Red Line could handle trams easily 90 seconds to 2 minutes apart and often does. It's traffic that is causing more and more disruption to Red Line at rush hour.

LeinsterDub

AngryLips wrote: »

Even during rush hour, a three minute interval is an exception and not the rule on the red line. I imagine this is less the case on the green line. What really gets me is that on Sundays and other offpeak times the trams would often travel at close to 70% capacity yet this is still considered insufficient to increase it from a ten minute frequency ...like what will it take? For there to be standing room only all of the time before any improvements will be made?

I'm confused are you saying it's operating at peak capacity or not? Clearly there is room for improved frequency off peak but during the rush hour it's maxed out and that's what we are talking about

lateconnection

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

TBH in theory Green Line is likely that bit more restrictive as I believe it's signaled station to station given the high speed it operates at, I don't think I have every saw more than one tram on the same section once it goes to largely segregated after Harcourt.

Red Line could handle trams easily 90 seconds to 2 minutes apart and often does. It's traffic that is causing more and more disruption to Red Line at rush hour.

The Green Line operates on a line of sight basis in the segregated section. The only signals between Sandyford and Harcourt are at the Sandyford depot, Stillorgan road crossing, Milltown road crossing, Beechwood road crossing and then the signal at Adelaide Road.

In the morning peak, the trams come sometimes as frequently as two within 90 seconds of each other. As a daily user of the line, I have seen trams leave stations and then another one arrive into the station only a few seconds later.

On the straighter sections of the line between Milltown and Ranelagh, I have
seen up to three or even four sets of tram headlights one after the other in the distance on the outbound track during the morning peak.

Multiple trams can arrive within 3 minutes, but then there is usually a much longer wait for the next tram.

These long waits could be eliminated by running more trams, but one morning a few weeks back I was on a tram that stopped just before Beechwood, I looked through the driver's cab window, there was another tram less than 50 metres in front of us, it had stopped at the station. Shows that the Green line frequency is kinda at its maximum at times in the morning.

fxotoole

I haven't been following this thread in a while. Have Irish Rail made any commitments to add a Broombridge stop to their services once Luas Cross City opens up? The Sligo service and some Longford services don't stop at all stops. All Maynooth services and some Longford ones stop everywhere.

So Irish Rail would have to add a stop to some of their services in order to properly integrate. Is this actually going to happen though?

Chivito550

fxotoole wrote: »

I haven't been following this thread in a while. Have Irish Rail made any commitments to add a Broombridge stop to their services once Luas Cross City opens up? The Sligo service and some Longford services don't stop at all stops. All Maynooth services and some Longford ones stop everywhere.

So Irish Rail would have to add a stop to some of their services in order to properly integrate. Is this actually going to happen though?

Common sense would say yes given how useful this would be for DIT students. Common sense is not a guarantee sadly.

fxotoole

Chivito550 wrote: »

Common sense would say yes given how useful this would be for DIT students. Common sense is not a guarantee sadly.

Yes, of course... but my question was whether Irish Rail have made any commitments one way or the other?

Zebra3

fxotoole wrote: »

Yes, of course... but my question was whether Irish Rail have made any commitments one way or the other?

They're still struggling with the effects of reopening the PPT.

Bray Head

lateconnection wrote: »

The Green Line operates on a line of sight basis in the segregated section. The only signals between Sandyford and Harcourt are at the Sandyford depot, Stillorgan road crossing, Milltown road crossing, Beechwood road crossing and then the signal at Adelaide Road.

In the morning peak, the trams come sometimes as frequently as two within 90 seconds of each other. As a daily user of the line, I have seen trams leave stations and then another one arrive into the station only a few seconds later. 

Do they have a protocol for operating in dense fog? This is highly unusual in Dublin of course but it still happens occasionally.

Jamie2k9

lateconnection wrote: »

The Green Line operates on a line of sight basis in the segregated section. The only signals between Sandyford and Harcourt are at the Sandyford depot, Stillorgan road crossing, Milltown road crossing, Beechwood road crossing and then the signal at Adelaide Road.

In the morning peak, the trams come sometimes as frequently as two within 90 seconds of each other. As a daily user of the line, I have seen trams leave stations and then another one arrive into the station only a few seconds later.

On the straighter sections of the line between Milltown and Ranelagh, I have
seen up to three or even four sets of tram headlights one after the other in the distance on the outbound track during the morning peak.

Multiple trams can arrive within 3 minutes, but then there is usually a much longer wait for the next tram.

These long waits could be eliminated by running more trams, but one morning a few weeks back I was on a tram that stopped just before Beechwood, I looked through the driver's cab window, there was another tram less than 50 metres in front of us, it had stopped at the station. Shows that the Green line frequency is kinda at its maximum at times in the morning.

I've been in the Red Cow depot control room but just can't remember but they have different sections on the screen showing where trams can operate and won't allow one past unless it clear. Track circuit record the position.

Two within 90 seconds sounds about right and very few stations are more than 90 seconds apart, it's very normal for trams to be departing a station and one right behind it.

Jamie2k9

Bray Head wrote: »

Do they have a protocol for operating in dense fog? This is highly unusual in Dublin of course but it still happens occasionally.

Track circuit record the position of trams.

markpb

Jamie2k9 wrote:

I've been in the Red Cow depot control room but just can't remember but they have different sections on the screen showing where trams can operate and won't allow one past unless it clear. Track circuit record the position.

How would this work without signals?

Jamie2k9

markpb wrote: »

How would this work without signals?

Not sure exactly how it works but they have some circuits as well and they are can seen on segregated track. I should have a few pictures somewhere on their screens they have little dots which show where trams can be at any time and they go red as they enter the section.

Irish Rail also relay on circuits in some spots where there is no signal in the immediate vicinity.

xper

Do we know yet if the Grangegorman stop is going into operation as soon as the line opens? I know this was dependent on the number of people who are using the new DIT campus reaching a certain threshold but that seems to be progressing fairly well so thought they may as well go ahead and commission the stop from day one.

jamo2oo9

xper wrote: »

Do we know yet if the Grangegorman stop is going into operation as soon as the line opens? I know this was dependent on the number of people who are using the new DIT campus reaching a certain threshold but that seems to be progressing fairly well so thought they may as well go ahead and commission the stop from day one.

I believe DIT needs to create an accessible route between their campus and the station since the land in between it is undergoing construction

Middle Man

Some nice videos of the construction process >>here<<.

Middle Man

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Platform works at Harcourt stop

Lengthening of original Green Line platforms from 40m to 53m AFAIK...

LXFlyer

Middle Man wrote: »

Lengthening of original Green Line platforms from 40m to 53m AFAIK...

Precisely - beyond Sandyford they are already done.

LXFlyer

fxotoole wrote: »

Yes, of course... but my question was whether Irish Rail have made any commitments one way or the other?

Nothing is committed to as yet.

The next timetable change isn't due until later in the year - we'll see then whenever it goes out to consultation.

With anything going beyond Maynooth it becomes more difficult to change times on the entire service due to having to cross other trains at passing loops on the single track, and also fit around the Connolly service patterns, but at a minimum it should be possible to have the key morning and evening trains call at Broombridge for commuters.

geo88

Does anyone have any information (or estimates) as to how long the journey from St. Stephens Green to Parnell will take?

Can't find any official documents about that distance, estimates or educated guesses also welcome .

D.L.R.

geo88 wrote: »

Does anyone have any information (or estimates) as to how long the journey from St. Stephens Green to Parnell will take?

Can't find any official documents about that distance, estimates or educated guesses also welcome .

Bout 10 minutes off peak I should think. More in the rush. Probably quicker walking #Irishtransportsolutions

MJohnston

You probably won't be quicker walking tbh. Even the slowest Luas between Jervis and George's Dock (a similarly traffic-heavy area) is still faster than walking at a regular pace.

I've pointed this out on this thread before too, but there are very few points where the cross-city connection will be crossing a traffic flow. Dawson Street is with traffic and half segregated, College Green is hopefully going to be sequenced correctly to avoid the usual buses blocking junctions but again, it's with traffic, O'Connell Bridge/Rosie Hackett Bridge are the only spots where it really crosses any significant traffic flows, and with the incoming traffic plans, there will be very little private car traffic at these spots anymore.

If they get the priorities and signal timings right, there's no reason this section can't be reasonably fast (though there will always be a speed limit here due to the amount of pedestrians). Really the biggest delay along this section is going to be due to the process of boarding and unloading passengers, and drivers will need to be pretty ruthless with their door close buttons!

Thrashssacre

Is there any reason why the line cannot be run as Sandyford - broombridge, Brides Glen- Connolly seams much better conectionwise giving dart and northern commuter services direct green line access

MJohnston

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Is there any reason why the line cannot be run as Sandyford - broombridge, Brides Glen- Connolly seams much better conectionwise giving dart and northern commuter services direct green line access

I don't think the exact extended Green Line routes are confirmed yet, but I would imagine at the bare minimum it'd be Broombridge to Sandyford.

Brides Glen (Green Line) to Connolly (Red Line) topic has already been covered several times recently on this thread.

LXFlyer

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Is there any reason why the line cannot be run as Sandyford - broombridge, Brides Glen- Connolly seams much better conectionwise giving dart and northern commuter services direct green line access

This question has been asked and answered repeatedly.

The physical space at the Marlborough St/Abbey St junction is insufficient to allow for an operational connection from the red line to the southbound green line from either direction.

Therefore the two connections between the lines will only ever be used for stock transfers.

People will have walk an exceptionally short distance between Abbey St Stop on the Red line and either O'Connell Street or Marlborough St stops. They won't be charged twice due to the zonal nature of LUAS ticketing.

The normal weekday service pattern on the Green Line is likely to see every second tram loop back south at Parnell and every other tram continue to Broombridge.

Operationally this makes it much easier in terms of scheduling and less confusing for passengers.

D.L.R.

Deedsie wrote: »

Don't think you are right there... I tried to run down a Luas between Stephens Green and Harcourt and it skinned me.

SSG-Parnell will be a lot slower than Harcourt-SSG. More junctions, more traffic, more pedestrians.

D.L.R.

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Is there any reason why the line cannot be run as Sandyford - broombridge, Brides Glen- Connolly seams much better conectionwise giving dart and northern commuter services direct green line access

Such a journey would be much slower than simply transferring at Tara and walking to Trinity.

LeinsterDub

http://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/luas-cross-city-project-cost-12712071

He also said he has sought compensation for the issue from the National Transport Authority (NTA)

markpb

LeinsterDub wrote: »

http://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/luas-cross-city-project-cost-12712071

The world is full of idiots.