Report to support return of college fees

From The Irish Times:

A LANDMARK report on higher education is set to back the return of student tuition charges as colleges face unprecedented financial pressures.

The recommendation from the Hunt report will put the issue of student fees back on the agenda – even though the Green Party vetoed any change to the free fees scheme in the revised programme for Government.

The expert group, chaired by economist Dr Colin Hunt, is working on a long-term national strategy for higher education. Publication of the much-anticipated report, which was expected this month, is now set to be delayed until the autumn.

Sources say the group will now begin a full review of its work in an effort to resolve several key issues.

The strategy group is working on a revised final draft of its proposals.

An earlier draft that made no firm proposals on several key issues was circulated last month.

However, Dr Hunt has agreed to present a revised “toughened-up’’ draft after a meeting with the heads of universities and the institutes of technology last week.

Sources say the Hunt group now accepts the case put forward by college bosses that “there is no alternative” to tuition charges.

Third-level colleges are coming to terms with a looming financial crisis as they struggle to cope with a forecast additional 55,000 students over the next decade.

Last month, an internal Higher Education Authority (HEA) report said an investment of over €4 billion would be required to upgrade dilapidated buildings and provide space for a surge in student numbers.

The report did concede that such investment was “highly unlikely” in the current economic climate.

Sources say the group can no longer ignore the issue of student charges. However, any decision to back new charges is set to be opposed by Shane Kelly, the student representative on the strategy group. Mr Kelly is a former head of the Union of Students in Ireland.

Other members of the strategy group include Brigid McManus, secretary general of the Department of Education; Michael Kelly, chairman of the HEA; Dr John Hegarty, Provost Trinity College Dublin, and Paul Rellis, managing director of Microsoft Ireland

Other proposals expected from the Hunt group include: closer collaboration between all third-level colleges with the development of clusters specialising in a smaller number of disciplines: an expanded role for the HEA in managing the sector and linking spending to national objectives and a new workload management process where the working hours of academic staff in both the universities and the institutes of technology (ITs) will be more closely monitored.

The group is also under pressure to establish a new umbrella body for the ITs, a national technological university, which would help to boost the status of the ITs. However, it has still to decide on this issue.

In a blow for parents, Minister for Education Mary Coughlan last month refused to rule out an increase in the €1,500 student registration charge from 2011.

The Minister made her comments during a meeting of the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education which discussed the huge financial challenges that are now facing the higher-education sector.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0622/1224273029490.html

EuropeanSon

Thankfully, I'm going to Scotland, so no fees for me!!

-Trek-

TBF its got to happen sometime.

I wouldn't object as long as;

1. The revenue generated is pumped back into the institutions in order to provide a better quality of education.

2. The fee's are paid back as soon as you start working - like its done in other countries (OZ I think).

But knowing this country they will probably screw it up for everyone.

ajjmk

I hope to God fees dont come in I think its really cruel. Yes the institutions & government need more money, but the majority of us the public dont have that money to pay them! I think that third level fees would just be depriving the less well off of an education.

ihavequestions

Isn't it that if they bring them in the students already in college would'nt have to pay them, only the incoming first years and the years to follow? Don't think it will affect us!

DGRulz

As bad as it sounds maybe it would take the pressure of 'an additional 20,000 CAO apps' ? and might drops the points for some things but still wouldnt welcome it.

Ruski

If they're gonna bring back fees, they should get rid of the points system. There's no point busting your ass for two years to something you can't afford.

wayhey

Ruski wrote: »

If they're gonna bring back fees, they should get rid of the points system. There's no point busting your ass for two years to something you can't afford.

Ah huh. So you really want it to descend into a highest bidder scenario for courses? Small-place courses will still need a method of selection.

Pretty much inevitable though... I just hope the banks we own don't turn into total spas when we all need loans.

Chuchoter

I wouldn't mind if the fees were like 4 or 5 grand. But I haven't a hope of paying the 13,000 a year my fees would be if I got the course I want

mark.oc

I would welcome this tbh. With a loan system like the one in the UK, which doesn't deter those with a lower income it could be a very good thing. So many people in this country go to uni just for the experience, and this does depreciate the value of a degree. If you had to get a loan for €4,000 a year, I'm sure people would think about their choices a bit more, rather than just doing a course for the laugh or to try it out, when they're not that bothered.

JellyBeans92

crayolastereo wrote: »

I wouldn't mind if the fees were like 4 or 5 grand. But I haven't a hope of paying the 13,000 a year my fees would be if I got the course I want

That's all well an good.. unless you live in a family of 3+ kids in a similar age group?

In that situation it may only cost you €4k a year, but in a house like mine your talking in or around €12k a year?..
.. And that's not including accomodation costs, because it would be nearly impossible to commute to any college from where I live.

mark.oc

JellyBeans92 wrote: »

That's all well an good.. unless you live in a family of 3+ kids in a similar age group?

In that situation it may only cost you €4k a year, but in a house like mine your talking in or around €12k a year?..
.. And that's not including accomodation costs, because it would be nearly impossible to commute to any college from where I live.

In England they have a system where the government provides you with a loan (without interest) that covers your fees. You don't have to start paying it off until you're earning a certain amount of money yourself, so your family circumstances don't affect it. I'd imagine something similar would be implemented here.

TimeClock18

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Thankfully, I'm going to Scotland, so no fees for me!!

Whereabouts? Was thinking of same earlier in the year, changed my mid though.

Would dread the fee's coming in.

ihavequestions

ihavequestions wrote: »

Isn't it that if they bring them in the students already in college would'nt have to pay them, only the incoming first years and the years to follow? Don't think it will affect us!

Not true. When they were considering it before students in college were notified that if fees were brought in that they'd have to pay them.

JellyBeans92

mark.oc wrote: »

In England they have a system where the government provides you with a loan (without interest) that covers your fees. You don't have to start paying it off until you're earning a certain amount of money yourself, so your family circumstances don't affect it. I'd imagine something similar would be implemented here.

It's like you don't know our government at all?. =P

If the adopted that system I actually wouldn't mind as much.. but figuring how they seem to screw up everything else..

Fad

crayolastereo wrote: »

I wouldn't mind if the fees were like 4 or 5 grand. But I haven't a hope of paying the 13,000 a year my fees would be if I got the course I want

The HEA contribution to almost every uni course is between 5 and 8 grand (Know this from my fees bill from college), I find it highly unlikely that you will ever have to pay 13 grand to go to college here, unless you include rent and whatnot in that figure.

Fees are coming back sooner or later, but if they come back, they'll come back with a loan system in place, just wouldn't be feasible otherwise.

I do however thank the Greens for kinda saving me and the class of 2009 another year of fees.....no idea how long this will last though.

ummtea

I suppose it's grand if they use the money to add more places in courses like Medicine and Veterinary or any high demand course.

JellyBeans92

Fad wrote: »

The HEA contribution to almost every uni course is between 5 and 8 grand (Know this from my fees bill from college), I find it highly unlikely that you will ever have to pay 13 grand to go to college here, unless you include rent and whatnot in that figure.

Fees are coming back sooner or later, but if they come back, they'll come back with a loan system in place, just wouldn't be feasible otherwise.

I do however thank the Greens for kinda saving me and the class of 2009 another year of fees.....no idea how long this will last though.

I'm not sure where your from, but I live down the country ( therefore it's virtually impossible for me to commute anywhere because bus services are very infrequent and the nearest stop is over 10 mins DRIVE away (I DON'T have my own car?) so I would have to stay wherever I go to college?

and have 2 siblings that will be in college at the same time as me.

My family doesn't currently fall into the grant income category, but those grants actually take so little into account it's redicilous..

So college for me is going to cost a lot more than someone who could quite easy commute to college.. but they CHOOSE not to for the 'College Experience'..

The system just favours the city dweller.. =(

muffinz

i have 3 older siblings, and my family had to take it down a notch when 2 were in uni and 2 in secondary... now im heading into uni, and my brothers headin into his second last year... if they bring in fees, we simply wont be able to afford it!

the way to boost the economy is to have a skilled workforce, Ireland isnt going to have a skilled workforce if half the country can't afford an education.

JellyBeans92

muffinz wrote: »

i have 3 older siblings, and my family had to take it down a notch when 2 were in uni and 2 in secondary... now im heading into uni, and my brothers headin into his second last year... if they bring in fees, we simply wont be able to afford it!

the way to boost the economy is to have a skilled workforce, Ireland isnt going to have a skilled workforce if half the country can't afford an education.

Second that?!

It's not as bad for families who only have 1, maybe 2 kids to send to college and haven't already been hit by the redicilous taxes because the work in civil service..
I'm POSITIVE the grants committees don't take into account the fact that some families wages could be down over €10k because of this?..
(Before anyone tries to retort this: My family will have 3 at college this year, and a fourth unable to get work.. I've done my homework on this)

Curlyhatescurls

Ah damn it, my mother is going back to college in september, my father is in college, my brother will be going into 2nd year college, I am going into 1st year of college in september(if all my hard work pays off) My sister is younger than me, but she will be going to college when we are all still in college. There is no way in HELL that my family will be able to afford college for FIVE of us as we also live in the country so we all have to travel, this is a disaster.

If they bring in fees I will just have to leave the country, maybe become a waitress in France or something. Or maybe I will just completely give up and become an alcoholic.

JellyBeans92

Curlyhatescurls wrote: »

If they bring in fees I will just have to leave the country, maybe become a waitress in France or something. Or maybe I will just completely give up and become an alcoholic.

Oh well, at least France is nice.. like the language. =P

FridaysWell

Fees will be a disaster for this country. They really will be.
I will be able to afford them I think, so long as they are not €10,000 a year. But college is expensive enough as it is, many students find it very hard to find a part time job to help them get through comfortably and help their parents out. I don't know how I'm gonna get a job next year (if I hopefully get into college) 'cuz God knows I need one!
Fees on top of this will destroy this country!

The government should really get the finger out, and start prioritising untouchable funds for education and healthcare. Two crucial areas. I'd rather see a poor educated people then rich and dumb!

Dov'e la Vittoria??

mark.oc

JellyBeans92 wrote: »

Second that?!

It's not as bad for families who only have 1, maybe 2 kids to send to college and haven't already been hit by the redicilous taxes because the work in civil service..
I'm POSITIVE the grants committees don't take into account the fact that some families wages could be down over €10k because of this?..
(Before anyone tries to retort this: My family will have 3 at college this year, and a fourth unable to get work.. I've done my homework on this)

Like I said there would likely be a loan scheme in place. The government may be bad, but not that bad. With this system, your family wouldn't be paying, you would.

JellyBeans92

mark.oc wrote: »

Like I said there would likely be a loan scheme in place. The government may be bad, but not that bad. With this system, your family wouldn't be paying, you would.

You say "likely"

It's like you don't know the country at all?. =P