The most elusive amp part of all...

stephenshields2

For ****s sake lads, valves are hard to come by these days! :mad:

Blew a power valve in my TSL 100 last week, so I decided "I'll get a full retube and service, good times!"

But actually, no.

I have tried EVERY music shop that I know (which is nearly every music shop in Louth and Dublin) and theres not a single EL34 to be found(without waiting a week for them)!! A few places had 12AX7, some even had 12AX7A and B, but nobody had a full set of valves. Disgraceful. :rolleyes:

Anyone know somewhere that has them in stock? (In the Louth/Dublin region please!)

Have a gig on Friday, and Im currently Marshall-less.

Thanks in advance lads!

Mataguri

No idea, but I do have a load of spare tubes floating about so if you cant find an EL34 I'm sure I can pass one on your way.

stephenshields2

Mataguri wrote: »

No idea, but I do have a load of spare tubes floating about so if you cant find an EL34 I'm sure I can pass one on your way.

Thanks dude, you're very decent to offer, but the tubes were old anyway, so Im lookin for a new set as opposed to changing the blown one!

But thanks again, I was sure that kindness between musicians was well dead!! :D:D

Mataguri

stephenshields2 wrote: »

Thanks dude, you're very decent to offer, but the tubes were old anyway, so Im lookin for a new set as opposed to changing the blown one!

But thanks again, I was sure that kindness between musicians was well dead!! :D:D

If you are looking to fully retube your amp you'd be best off buying a set of matched tubes from Watfordvales.com or Eurotubes.com. It will cost less than buying a set in Dublin (thats if you can even find a set) and it will sound better. Unfortunately there's no chance of getting them before Friday.

In the meantime since I know how crap it is to have something break before a gig and not being able to fix it I'm going to bring an EL34 with me to work. My office is near the city center so if your stuck PM me before 5 on Friday evening and I'll hook you up.

stephenshields2

Mataguri wrote: »

If you are looking to fully retube your amp you'd be best off buying a set of matched tubes from Watfordvales.com or Eurotubes.com. It will cost less than buying a set in Dublin (thats if you can even find a set) and it will sound better. Unfortunately there's no chance of getting them before Friday.

In the meantime since I know how crap it is to have something break before a gig and not being able to fix it I'm going to bring an EL34 with me to work. My office is near the city center so if your stuck PM me before 5 on Friday evening and I'll hook you up.

Yeah, I usually use EuroTubes, but I decided to ''buy Irish''. :rolleyes:

Your an absolute gent, Ill PM you if Im badly stuck!

stephenshields2

I wanna try and get them tomorrow, before a nasty bout of GAS steals all my money!!

Anyone know where Ill find em??

Mataguri

Actually I just remembered somewhere that might. When I was looking for somewhere to get an amp fixed I was recommended Sound Gear on South Richmond Street. I presume that since they fix amps that they should have some tubes lying around.

stephenshields2

Mataguri wrote: »

Actually I just remembered somewhere that might. When I was looking for somewhere to get an amp fixed I was recommended Sound Gear on South Richmond Street. I presume that since they fix amps that they should have some tubes lying around.

Youd think that about XMusic, The Sound Shop and Music Maker as well, but they dont have any at all!! :rolleyes:

Ill ring em tomorrow tho, see what the craic is!!

Dord

It's just one of those things. Shops here have always been bad for buying tubes. I remember going out to Bray with my brother to get some for his amps years ago. The shop out there was pretty good for them and quite reasonable too.

Just checked their website and they don't look to have any of them anymore.

Last time I bought tubes I bought them on eBay. They weren't exactly run-of-the-mill 12AX7's or EL34's so it was necessary.

stephenshields2

Dord wrote: »

It's just one of those things. Shops here have always been bad for buying tubes. I remember going out to Bray with my brother to get some for his amps years ago. The shop out there was pretty good for them and quite reasonable too.

Just checked their website and they don't look to have any of them anymore.

Last time I bought tubes I bought them on eBay. They weren't exactly run-of-the-mill 12AX7's or EL34's so it was necessary.

Yeah, if I dont find em by friday, i'll be doing an Ebay job!

BSOM

What about Perfect Pitch ?

If you send a message to Marshall Ireland, they will know who has them in stock.

Matt Bianco

I reckon it would be worthwhile contacting Martin Nolan in Beaumount - a true gent and has been working on Marshalls for years. I'm sure he has a fair stockpile of valves knocking around. His contact details should be in the sticky but let me know if you've any dramas getting his contact details.

Good luck with the hunt!

stephenshields2

ARRRRRGH, no answer from Perfect Pitch!! :mad:

This is getting ridiculous...

novarock

unfortunately, Ive had to stock up on valves whenever i go over to london.. Never have what you need here.

Mataguri

novarock wrote: »

Never have what you need here.

Unfortunately that's very true. I went to all the major guitar shops the other week trying to find a single 500k pot. Nowhere had one :mad:

Quattroste

I'd go to Watford Valves. I recently had my 30th Anni Marshall fully retubed. I went to Watford Valves for them. Got the Cryo tubes but they are very expensive and the amp required 7 ECC83's and 4 EL84's. Sounds fantastic though

Sandvich

I'm kind of worried about getting a t00b amp at the moment because a lot of people I know in the industry seem to think tube amput isn't going to be sustained over the next few years.

Grolschevik

Sandvich wrote: »

I'm kind of worried about getting a t00b amp at the moment because a lot of people I know in the industry seem to think tube amput isn't going to be sustained over the next few years.

I remember reading somewhere that valve production is in some way related (as an adjunct to) to the manufacture of cathode ray tubes for TVs and monitors. If that's true, then as long as there's demand in developing countries for cathode ray based monitors, we should be ok for a few years.

Good catchphrase though: "LCD TVs are killing the music industry!"

landsleaving

Once there's a market for it, someone will make them. I'd be more worried that if production drops they could become more expensive, since they'd be maily for amps.

But still, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

raindog.promo

I got some tubes from thomann. The way I found them was search google for the name of the tube ie 12ax7 or whatever you need.

stephenshields2

Got a fantastic deal off the aul Fleabay, seeing as all the Irish retailers are so ****e... :rolleyes:

Got 4 JJ Tesla EL34's and 4 JJ Tesla 12AX7's for 120 Euro, so Im very pleased with that.

Cant wait to get my hands on them, there will be rock!

Last Angry Man

Jimis Music Store in Ballymount. they sell Tube Amp Doctor valves and will do the job for you for a very good price. Guy is a Marshall nut too so knows what he is doing.

www.jimismusicstore.ie

darrenw5094

Quattroste wrote: »

I'd go to Watford Valves. I recently had my 30th Anni Marshall fully retubed. I went to Watford Valves for them. Got the Cryo tubes but they are very expensive and the amp required 7 ECC83's and 4 EL84's. Sounds fantastic though

Cryo valves are a load of malarkey. So are gold pins and balanced valves for the phase inverter.

darrenw5094

Sandvich wrote: »

I'm kind of worried about getting a t00b amp at the moment because a lot of people I know in the industry seem to think tube amput isn't going to be sustained over the next few years.

They obviously are not really in the industry. What is going to replace valves/tubes in guitar amps????????

Valves will be around for a long time.

Sandvich

darrenw5094 wrote: »

They obviously are not really in the industry. What is going to replace valves/tubes in guitar amps????????

Valves will be around for a long time.

Trust me, they are. Whether they're right or wrong is another thing, but they're definitely in the industry.

Also the reason Peavey has put so much research into the Transtube stuff is down to this too. Tubes probably won't be around forever. I don't they'll go anywhere in the next 10 years, but still. It's mostly only guitar amps and a small subsection of audiophiles keeping it alive.

Most amps sold nowadays are SS and modelers anyway. Granted that's because they're cheap, but still. SS can be made for cheaper.

darrenw5094

Sandvich wrote: »

Trust me, they are. Whether they're right or wrong is another thing, but they're definitely in the industry.

Also the reason Peavey has put so much research into the Transtube stuff is down to this too. Tubes probably won't be around forever. I don't they'll go anywhere in the next 10 years, but still. It's mostly only guitar amps and a small subsection of audiophiles keeping it alive.

Most amps sold nowadays are SS and modelers anyway. Granted that's because they're cheap, but still. SS can be made for cheaper.

Valves will always be around. The standard of valves has dropped dramtically since the 50's and 60's, but nothing else can replace them. Not even technology.

Sandvich

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Valves will always be around. The standard of valves has dropped dramtically since the 50's and 60's, but nothing else can replace them. Not even technology.

I really doubt that. I would say you'd be very hard pushed to find valves as easily as you do now in 100 years time. That might seem far away, but with all the technological and medical advances you could well still around. And that's a very optimistic estimate, some think in 10-15 years tubes will become too expensive for the average player. People have been saying this since the 60s - but the thing is back then, they didn't have a viable alternative. The reputation of SS amps was damaged, but modelers hold a lot more promise since we KNOW they're going to keep improving, and stuff like the Tech 21 character series is really upping SS's rep too.

And you're wrong about technlogy not being able to replace Valves. The Axe-FX is already pretty much there, and it's only going to get better from here on out. There is no reason why a tube amp can't eventually be emulated to more or less 100% accuracy to our ears, including vague concepts like "feel".

Some people don't like the idea of a "fake amp", but that doesn't mean that they have to sound or feel "worse".

There could very well be something BETTER than tubes in a few years. In fact, for recording, Axe FX probably is, no fecking around with microphones and cabs.

I find it more than a bit convenient that the technology from the 40s/50s/60s just so happens to be the best possible guitar tone. It's just traditionalism.

How a tube works is pure science. There is nothing magic or quantum about them(at least on a level we can percieve). That means it can eventually be modelled and emulated with full accuracy.

darrenw5094

Sandvich wrote: »

I find it more than a bit convenient that the technology from the 40s/50s/60s just so happens to be the best possible guitar tone. It's just traditionalism.

New Old Stock (NOS) valves are the business. Quality was 2000% higher back in the day. That is why some people will pay over €100 for the best single pre amp valve. As far as durablity goes, current valves are not in the same league.

Valves are here to stay. I just wish the quality was much better.

stephenshields2

darrenw5094 wrote: »

New Old Stock (NOS) valves are the business. Quality was 2000% higher back in the day. That is why some people will pay over €100 for the best single pre amp valve. As far as durablity goes, current valves are not in the same league.

Valves are here to stay. I just wish the quality was much better.

I see nothing wrong with the quality of valves these days. The Svetlana EL34's that were in my TSL lasted ~10 years, and only started to sound bad in the last few weeks of their life.

And the JJ Electronic valves I just picked up, seem like they could do the exact same.

Unreliabilty in valves comes from lots of things, 95% of them being human error, some examples being improper handling, not letting the amp warm up properly, and of course, the bad bias.

stephenshields2

Sandvich wrote: »

How a tube works is pure science. There is nothing magic or quantum about them(at least on a level we can percieve). That means it can eventually be modelled and emulated with full accuracy.

Theres probably not much point in trying to raise this argument with you, because you obviously believe that new technology will eventually take over from good ol' fashion valves! :rolleyes:

I personally dont think it ever will, because at the end of the day, the sounds will only be emulations of the real McCoy!

Sandvich

stephenshields2 wrote: »

Theres probably not much point in trying to raise this argument with you, because you obviously believe that new technology will eventually take over from good ol' fashion valves! :rolleyes:

I personally dont think it ever will, because at the end of the day, the sounds will only be emulations of the real McCoy!

An electric guitar is an emulation of an acoustic guitar you can easily amplify. Distortion/Fuzz is an emulation of brass sections, violin like sustain and physically torn speakers. The wah is an emulation of an effect most often done on wind instruments by physically moving the hand in front of it. Spring reverb of course is a very notably fake emulation.

Some people will always prefer the physical attributes of a real tube amp so they can physically modify it, swap tubes etc., but it doesn't mean that modelers will always sound "worse", or that they'll never replace tubes as the primary medium in professional recording/gigging.

If the sound and feel is there, then that's all that matters to the majority of people.

People don't have a problem playing old video games on "emulators"(like on Wiiware), either. They have replaced seeking out the old consoles as the primary way to play those games.

darrenw5094

stephenshields2 wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with the quality of valves these days. The Svetlana EL34's that were in my TSL lasted ~10 years, and only started to sound bad in the last few weeks of their life.

And the JJ Electronic valves I just picked up, seem like they could do the exact same.

Unreliabilty in valves comes from lots of things, 95% of them being human error, some examples being improper handling, not letting the amp warm up properly, and of course, the bad bias.

JJ valves are the most unreliable around. Bob at Eurotubes is full of s**t. There is a reason why JJ's are the cheapest. Svetlana Winged C's are the most durable of current production.

But please explain why NOS valves from 1958 are still being used today even though they are 50 years old. Quality back then was much different than cheap production values today.

Paolo_M

stephenshields2 wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with the quality of valves these days. The Svetlana EL34's that were in my TSL lasted ~10 years, and only started to sound bad in the last few weeks of their life.

And the JJ Electronic valves I just picked up, seem like they could do the exact same.

Unreliabilty in valves comes from lots of things, 95% of them being human error, some examples being improper handling, not letting the amp warm up properly, and of course, the bad bias.

A big +1 on that.

New models of valves are being issued, old designs are being re-issued and the sale of valve amplifiers is higher than ever.

Simple economics tells you that they will be around another while, supply and demand and all that stuff.

The end of valves for amplification was due back in the 70s. It's now 40 years later and everything seems fine to me.

What I see happening more and more is that modellers take their place where valve amps were traditionally weak anyway.
Things like low volume bedroom playing, low volume recording, smaller gigs and so on.

I've tried out the like of ReValver and Amplitube and they're damn good and getting better.

In fact eventually I think modellers like the AxeFX will become more common and even :eek: "socially acceptable".

However there will always be valve amp die-hards. I'm one.
For me nothing beats the feeling of raw power you get from standing in front of a cranked valve amp. Taking tone out of the equation, that feeling alone does make me play differently, my pick attack changes, the things I play changes. I just don't see modellers replicating that any-time soon.

Sandvich

Personally, I prefer proper amps to modelers too. With modelers you also have to invest in a good power amp, monitors/full range cabs etc., midi footswitches and you still don't get the same interactivity as a real amp, even if it's capable of sounding more or less identical.

But I think it's unrealistic to think that the price of valves isn't going to go up at some point in the future. For the longest time serious musicians have tended towards valves as they've mostly only had SS as an alternative, which while as good in some cases doesn't provide the same variety if you want a "good" SS amp(not to mention they can end up costing as much, Pritchard etc.).

Now you're seeing more and more musicians turning to systems like the Axe FX. Well designed SS amps/preamps like the Tech 21 character series, Peavey Transtube are also gaining ground.

Personally I like to use modelers for quickly recording riffs, laying down quick demos for songs, practice etc., though of course many prefer a modeler for everything.

I don't think "Real" amps will die out anytime soon, but eventually a lot less valve amps are going to be sold.

That might not be such a bad thing though - tube amps will have a genuine cool vintage, steampunk kind of vibe to them instead of being something you "must" have to make good music.

What's probably going to happen with tube amps is that you're either going to get more super versatile and affordable amps like the Egnater Tweaker, or amps focusing more on a specific voice that isn't modeled. That's one of the big reasons people still buy single stompbox effects - you can't possibly model them all.

With amps they have a tendancy to follow the same kinds of sound, with some exceptions. The one way tube amps can beat modelers is to either beat them at their own game, or beat them at something they can't do. If you have amps that are basically just "JCM800 but a bit different", a modeler is going to look more appealing since you're getting that "Basic" sound anyway, as well as being able to tweak it. In the Axe FX you can even alter things like tube bias.

If tube amps all start to be like effects pedals, having loads of different features and voicings, it'll be essentially impossible or impractical to model them all. The Marshall modelling amps come off as absurd to me because so many of those amps are going to sound the same. There's going to be 3 main tones there, Plexi-ish, JCM800-ish, and modern. There are probably proper tube amps that cost around the same and do that just as well. And they even managed to leave out some of the ones that do sound a bit different, like the JCM900.

Thing of the difference between a Fender and an Orange amp, or a Vox and a Dual Rec. There are probably other dimensions of tonality here that haven't been discovered. Different tone stacks, new kinds of clipping, stuff like that, could get you some pretty different sounds.

Quattroste

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Cryo valves are a load of malarkey. So are gold pins and balanced valves for the phase inverter.

Cryo valves are a load of malarkey eh.

Can you explain why you claim this to be true? What controlled tests have you done to arrive at this conclusion? What solid evidence or supporting factors back up what you are saying....... or are you just talking sh1te? again.

stephenshields2

Quattroste wrote: »

Cryo valves are a load of malarkey eh.

Can you explain why you claim this to be true? What controlled tests have you done to arrive at this conclusion? What solid evidence or supporting factors back up what you are saying....... or are you just talking sh1te? again.

I was going to ask the exact same thing, except about the balanced preamp valve for the phase inverter position.

But you never know, he might have a very good answer for both!

stephenshields2

darrenw5094 wrote: »

JJ valves are the most unreliable around. Bob at Eurotubes is full of s**t. There is a reason why JJ's are the cheapest.

Again, have you any reason to say these things or what???

I didnt buy these from EuroTubes, but thanks for just assuming I did. :pac:

And what is this mysterious reason that JJ's are the "cheapest"? (Which they are not.)

Me, and many other people all over the world are very happy with our JJ's, but Im sure we're all wrong, and you're right. Of course.

darrenw5094

Quattroste wrote: »

Cryo valves are a load of malarkey eh.

Can you explain why you claim this to be true? What controlled tests have you done to arrive at this conclusion? What solid evidence or supporting factors back up what you are saying....... or are you just talking sh1te? again.

What is your problem? What tests have i done? WTF? What tests have you done to prove cryo is worth the extra cash?

As for gold pins..........what difference are gold pins going to make, apart from making the valve sellers more money.

If you are not interested in the topic, just don't post. Don't accuse members of talking sh1te, again.

Quattroste

Darren. If you make a claim like you did, then I have a right to ask you what your claim is based on. If you have no back up and it seems like you have no backup, then you are talking sh!te.

If you would like to clarify your out and out statement by saying "in your opinion" you think they are not worth the extra then that may make it a little easier to take, however I would still ask what your opinion is based on.

I tell this to my kids on a regular basis when they make off the cuff remarks without any basis behind them. Back up your answer or STF up!


In answer to your question as to why Cryo's are worth the extra cash, I don't believe I ever said that. I said they were expensive and they sounded great. That is a fact I can back up with a receipt and my word that I believe my amp sounds great.

darrenw5094

Mr. Quattroste, i have bought cryo valves recently and didn't notice a difference. After extensive searches online, the majority of guitarists agree. The only people that are talking up cryo valves, are the sellers. :rolleyes:

Balanced preamps for the phase inverter has been proven to be a myth, a slighly more expensive one, if you believed it.

But then again, that's just my opinion.:)

jimmy99

jesus lads you need to get a life but bar from that
cyro valves a big gimmick
Phase inverter splits the signal in 2 push pull no impact on tone.Winged c the best el34 tube in production today.Tubes will be around for at least another 100 years (market conditions)JJ Pre amp tubes also 1 of the best.
Matched sets are far more important any thing else.And lastly modern high gain amps are not nearly as hard on tubes as an old plexi Marshall superbass.

darrenw5094

jimmy99 wrote: »

jesus lads you need to get a life but bar from that
cyro valves a big gimmick
Phase inverter splits the signal in 2 push pull no impact on tone.Winged c the best el34 tube in production today.Tubes will be around for at least another 100 years (market conditions)JJ Pre amp tubes also 1 of the best.
Matched sets are far more important any thing else.And lastly modern high gain amps are not nearly as hard on tubes as an old plexi Marshall superbass.

Jaysus man....that row happened 10 weeks ago.