Air Throws in SSF4

Doctor DooM

Burning Eclipse wrote: »

Thanks man! Good to know! Guile obviously wins as he has 2 air throws though

lol

Guile rules the airwaves

To beat guy in the air, whiff a few air throws on purpose so he'll be fishing for his air throw.

Then move to Guile's AA moves ( neutral hp, well timed flash kick and the really good cr hp).

Mind games ftw.

Azza

Air throws are different.

Guiles air throw is the best in the game.

It had in vanilla the best range of all the air throws and its still the best in Super.

Most normal air throws have a start up time of 3 frames unless stated otherwise.

Guile's air throw range is 1.25 (both forward and back versions)
Vega's air throw range is 1.20
El Fuerte's air throw range 1.15
Chun-Li's air throw range is 1.10
Hakan's air throw range is 1.10 (has a start up time of 2 frames but cannot be preformed immeadiately on jump)
Ibuki's air throw range is 1.10
Cammy's air throw range is 1.05 (has a start up time of 5 frames)
Guy's Air Grab and EX Air Grab range is 1.00
Zangief's Ultra 2 range 0.95 (has a start up time of 1+2 frames)
Guy's Flip Throw range is 0.8 (has a start up time of 1 frame)

El Fuerte's Guacamole Leg Throw will beat all air throws with the exception of Zangiefs ultra 2.

As a result Guile's air throw will beat out anyone elses if performed at the same time with the exception of Zangiefs ultra 2. Guy's air grab comes out quicker so if he is in range of Guile he will beat him out of his air throw.

Of other note is the insanely short range Vega has on his Izuna Drop of only 0.60 and also needing his opponent to be standing.

Gouken has more range on his Demon Flip throw than Akuma's. Gouken's being 1.20 while Akuma's is 0.90.

To put that inperspective or ground throws. The average ground throw range is 0.90. There is exceptions to that, Rose and Chun for example have better than average range while Guy and Cammy have worse than average and some have different ranges depending on weather its a back throw or forward throw (i.e Dan).

Command grabs have much better range still. The lighter the version of the command grab the better the range (at the expense of damage).

Zangief's LP SPD range is 1.65
Hakan's Oil Rocket has a range of 0.95, when oiled up the range is increased to 1.60
T.Hawk's LP Tyhpoon range is 1.50
E.Honda's LP and EX Ochio range is 1.50
Abel's LP T.Throw range is 1.30
El Fuerte's Propeller Tortilla range is 1.30
El Fuerte's Fajita Buster range is 1.1 while the off the wall version is 1.00
Seth's LP and EX SPD range is 1.10
Hakan's Oil Dive has a range of 1.00 regardless of weather he is oiled up or not.
Zangief's German Suplex has a range of 1.00
Makoto's LP Karakusa has a range of 0.93
Zangief's Running Bear Grab has a range of 0.90

Hakan's Ultra 1 command grab has a range of 1.50 regadless of weather he is oiled up or not.
T.Hawk and Zangief have the same range on there Ultra 1 command grabs of 1.40
Fei-Long's EX Kaiten command grab has a range of 1.20 while all the normal versions only have 0.90 range.
Ibuki Ultra 1 command grab range is 1.10
Abels Ultra 2 command grab range is only 1.00
Akuma's Ultra 1 command grab range is only 0.90
E.Honda's Ultra 2 command grab range is only 0.90
El Feurte's Ultra 1 command grab has a range of 1.10 while his Ultra 2 command grab has a range of 1.60
Guy's Ultra 2 command grab range is also only 0.90

No data on Boxers or Dhalsims Ultra 2 yet.

A-Trak

Azza wrote: »

T.Hawk and Zangief have the same range on there Ultra 1 command grabs of 1.40
E.Honda's Ultra 2 command grab range is only 0.90

FFS.

*sigh*

Doctor DooM

Azza wrote: »

Air throws are different.

Mind my asking where this is from? It contradicts everything I've ever been told is all.

Azza

Shoryuken Wiki for Super Street Fighter 4.

The amount of frames a jump lasts for has no bearing on how good an air throw is.

All jumps take have 4 pre jump frames before they leave the ground. There is 2 exceptions, T.Hawk and Zangief who have 6 pre jump frames before they are airborne.

Everyone bar those 2 characters mentioned get airborne at the exact same time. There jump arcs of course are different.

But say in the case of Vega versus Guile going for air throws Guile outranges Vega so him is more likely to throw him than other way round, if they are both in range of each others air throw then its a question of who input the throw command first. The difference is far more obvious when Guile is against Cammy. He has a much greater range advantage.

Interesting thing to note about pre jump frames is that you can not be thrown out of them.

There is two exceptions and that is you can throw characters out of pre jump frames if its a super jump. That applies to Ibuki and C.Viper.

Other interesting bit of info. Most characters back dashes have airborne frames in them and thus can be caught by air throws. Ken and Dan are exceptions to this, their back dashes have no airborne frames.

Orim

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Mind my asking where this is from? It contradicts everything I've ever been told is all.

I've always told you that Chuns airthrow is worse than Guiles :pac:

Azza

A-Trak wrote:

FFS.

*sigh*

Good news everyone.

Characters with Command Grabs can not be thrown out of them with normal throws. But they can be hit out of them.

However characters that do an EX Command Grab can be thrown out of them with normal throws. They get hit invincibility instead.Makoto is an exceptions as her EX command grab has armour but it serves near enough the same purpose.

This goes for all characters with Command Grabs.
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Except E.Honda.
Who I'm glad to say can be thrown and hit out of both normal and EX versions of his command throws which is one of the few command throws slower than a normal throw

Doctor DooM

Orim wrote: »

I've always told you that Chuns airthrow is worse than Guiles :pac:

Im sure this will be a great comfort while I learn to abuse airthrows even more.

Azza

Also checking up on jumps.

When you jump and don't press a button, just do a empty jump, as soon as you land you can perform any move, block or tech a throw.

You can't however move in any direction, dash or jump for 4 frames.

Your only worry here is Command Grabs because in those 4 frames there is nothing you can do quick enough to beat a command grab and you can't tech it. This also applies to command grab ultra's like Elf, Hawk and Zangief.

If however you perform a move during your jump the landing frames are different.

Frames 1-2 on landing you can't do anything but tech. You can not move in any direction or block or perform any type of move.

Frames 3-4 you can block and tech. You can't perform a move or change postion.

If you input a move during the 4 frames of recovery its buffered and performed as soon as the 4 frames are up. However if you buffer a move you can no longer block in frames 3-4.

This is why you can't safe jump Shoto's with 3 frame DP's (Akuma, Ryu, Ken) or characters with EX command grabs (with the exception of Honda) or characters with reversals that come out faster than 3 frames (Chun's Super, Hakan and Elfs Ultra 2)

Ibuki and C.Viper have Super Jumps. These have 11 frames of recovery where they can't do anything at all.

Sisko

(as ibuki) I air grabed a ryu out of an air tatsu last night. Which I sure wrecked his head since the whole reason he kept air tatsuing around the stage was to avoid my air throws...


muahhahahahahaha


<_<

>_>

Wait a min this is the limerick thread

Doctor DooM

Meh.

You haven't air thrown til you've taken a Ken out of a fierce SRK, flames still on his fist.

I can hear the rage when I do it.

Air throwing air tatsus is actually part of my game plan (as is air throwing Sim out of U2). It isn't a get out of jail free card, but most shoto players don't seem to accept that

Pity I can't get to Limerick this weekend, I would love to be the Musnter Champion

Sisko

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Meh.

You haven't air thrown til you've taken a Ken out of a fierce SRK, flames still on his fist.

Your right , its not a particularly impressive air throw it was just fresh in my mind as the guy from the get go was obviously paranoid of air throws and neckbreakers.

He spent the whole game crouch turtleing and air tatsuing when I got near.

So yeah he probably wasnt too pleased when I air grabed his air tatsu. Taunted, then landed neckbreaker as he woke up. God I love ibuki.

But yeah I have gotten plenty of crazy air grabs with ibuki in super ,and as cammy chun and guile in SF4 , kens dragon punch , normal tatsu's , blanka balls. Theres been a few times with ibuki where I landed some weird lookin ones that were just above the ground and stuff where I was just as surprised as the other guy. I was starting to think hers might be better than guiles but I guess azza's post cleared that up.


Must try and air throw someone backdashing some time rofl.

Doctor DooM

Sisko wrote: »

Must try and air throw someone backdashing some time rofl.

Did it to Sagat06 once. Poor dude nearly had a conniption.

I didn't even know you could do it or what happened til the Dictator/Oracle cleared it up.

Seriously though I could swear Ibuki's air throw's better than Guiles. not range, just... I seem to be able to pull it off quicker.

EDIT: I'm not going to post it again but I have video footage of me taking poor A-trak out of EX headbutt start up.

Also Im going to split all this air throw talk off into it's own thread when I get home.

Sisko

Yeah theres something about ibukis air throw alright.

Doctor DooM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlvYCYGm_co#t=3m05s


teehee

BanjoB

So Air to air, I'm thinking, if I think someone is gonna meet me with an air throw I do a move with the most active frames, ie : chuns foward jump light kick. Can someone air throw you if u've performed the move and it's still active???.

Doctor DooM

BanjoB wrote: »

So Air to air, I'm thinking, if I think someone is gonna meet me with an air throw I do a move with the most active frames, ie : chuns foward jump light kick. Can someone air throw you if u've performed the move and it's still active???.

Just from experience, jlk usually beats air throw from Chun.

Of course then I ground myself and go to another of Guile's myriad of AA.

Orim

BanjoB wrote: »

So Air to air, I'm thinking, if I think someone is gonna meet me with an air throw I do a move with the most active frames, ie : chuns foward jump light kick. Can someone air throw you if u've performed the move and it's still active???.

J.mk seems to be her best option if you are worried about air throw or air to air in general. Great horizontal range.

Ofc if they stay grounded then it's not great but again the horizontal range can catch people off guard.

Doctor DooM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqUOv0CVkJc

This is what I'm talking about.

I'm think Guile would whiff the neutral air throw in round 2 and the final air throw too.

Sisko

I think what it might be is that she's good at grabbing people 'above her' as even today , think it was onion I was fighting , he was above me in the air and I landed an air throw (meaning he all of a sudden appeared in ibuki's arms at her lower height in the air)