Is the DIT LLB course any good?

jOHNGERARD50

Has anyone heard if the LLB that was recently started by them any good? cannot find any student reviews on the web.

TheFatControlle

I have heard it is average at best from friends who have done it. Very easy exams, nearly everyone gets a decent 2-1 so that is not great prep for the FE1's.
But i didnt do it myself - this is just from 2 friends who went last year.

eagle_&_bear

For what its worth,

I can echo what the last poster said in relation to not really preparing you completely for the FE1 exams. I think the programme is ok, and the lecturers seem fine but it appears to be not the best platform to begin the FE1's from.

But in all fairness, often times you get out of something what you put into it. If it is fully HETAC accredited then it should be fine.

Best advise, per se, would be to make sure it is recognised

jOHNGERARD50

thanks for the replies , I am just doing it out of interest and am trying to decide on this or University of London External LLB, private colleges here are out of my price range.

jimmylawman

It is not recognised by Kings Inns at the moment so that might 1) say something about the quality of the course , 2) be an issue if you want take the BL later

Arsenal1986

In my opinion, if it’s a straight toss up between the two then I’d go with the UOL LLB. Its done through UCL, so you have that excellent brand name on your CV as it’s the exact same degree as you get going to UCL. (UCL being ranked the 4th best University in the World according to the Times rankings in 2009.)

Mary Hairy

The DIT course is now recognised by Kings Inns.

jOHNGERARD50

good point about the University of London and interesting to see that DIT LLB is recognized by the Bar Council. One thing they mention in their web page

"The applicant must show that, in the course leading to the approved degrees, he/she has passed the following core subjects required by the Society:-

Land Law (including Law of Succession)
Equity
Administration Law
Company Law
Law of the European Union
Jurisprudence


DIT do not teach land law or company law or EU law at LLB Level??!!

Arsenal1986

You sure? I thought Ruth Cannon lectured in Property law in DIT?

The_Morrigan

I don't think DIT to a stand alone LLB.

I think you have to do the ordinary law degree first, then go onto do the LLB for the final year - maybe I read their prospectus assways though :rolleyes:

NOIMAGINATION

Arsenal1986 wrote: »

In my opinion, if it’s a straight toss up between the two then I’d go with the UOL LLB. Its done through UCL, so you have that excellent brand name on your CV as it’s the exact same degree as you get going to UCL. (UCL being ranked the 4th best University in the World according to the Times rankings in 2009.)

This isn't true.... its a University of London degree - you get a degree certificate that says University of London. I'm doing my LLB at Birkbeck which is a UOL college - my degree will say Birkbeck College, University of London. For external candidates it will say UOL External LLB - there'll be no mention of UCL on your degree certificate, as you will not be a student of UCL. UCL is just another college in UOL along with LSE, SOAS, KCL and many others

Arsenal1986

Sorry I should have clarified - I mean its the exact same degree as in academic standards/set by same lecturers/marked by smae lecturers as someone that goes to the University fulltime.

On the pachment you get it says University of London External System LLB and then academic direction UCL. There is no such thing per se as the University of London, it is a collection of schools. The external systems LLM/LLB is academically run by UCL and this is stated on the degree Certificate.

Actually, I'm basing all this on the LLM, perhaps the LLB is different?

jOHNGERARD50

Yes, I did the BA Law and property law and EU is on that course but the LLB is the recognised degree for Kings Inns and not the BA in Law, I have written to DIT to clarify what the actual position is and await their reply.

As to the UCL their website states

"The current degree parchment does not use the word “External”, it was removed in 2008. The parchment does however, state the name of the Lead College(s) which undertook the assessment for the award."

I still will have to make up my mind!!

jOHNGERARD50

How do you find doing the LLB as an external student? is the exam centres in Ireland a problem? cheers..

goatpeter

Hi,
I would advise against the University of London LL.B. I did mine at a private college about 15 years ago and of 27 in the class only 3 passed - this despite the fact that most were already degree holders in other disciplines from Irish universities. The standard was extremely high and required a lot of dedication. Our lecturers were mostly barristers and solicitors who got their primary degree in law from UCC or UCD and they agreed that the UOL LL.B was examined to a much higher standard than at their university. This being the case, you would think this would mean that it would be regarded with more respect by Irish academic institutions, but, in my experience, it isn't. In my opinion, the amount of recognition you will get for following the external UOL LL.B path is not in proportion to the amount of work you will have to do to obtain a good degree. If I were in your shoes, I would definitely take the D.I.T route.
The FE1s are difficult exams; you will have to work hard regardless of where you obtained your primary degree.
just my opinion, hope it helps

jOHNGERARD50

thanks you for the input I agree looking at exam papers that the standard is high, it would appear this brings into question if the standards of legal education are to low here in comparision with UK. The failure rate is amazing that you mentioned.

Arsenal1986

Yeah thats a bit worrying alright, really depends what your eventual goal is as to which one would suit you best. I mean if you see yourself ever working in England/London then obviously UOL would be better.

jOHNGERARD50

well the way things look here I think I will have to move I have heard there is something like 700 solicitors unemployed in Ireland and a junior barrister I know here is finding that there is hardly any work going here at the moment.

Arsenal1986

Well then its a no brainer really, DIT wouldnt exactly be well known in the UK.

jOHNGERARD50

that is exactly what my wife says. Outside Ireland they seem to think Trinity is the only University in Ireland!!

NOIMAGINATION

jOHNGERARD50 wrote: »

How do you find doing the LLB as an external student? is the exam centres in Ireland a problem? cheers..

I'm not doing the external one - I live in London and attend on an evening basis - Birkbeck College is one of the UoL colleges and they do a part time degree.

jOHNGERARD50

I found this link http://www.traineesolicitor.co.uk/forums/undergraduate-discussion/3609-llb-university-london-external-system-3.html

the external LLB seems that the failure rate is very very high but again they have high standards to maintain, If I was living there I would also prefer to attend lectures.

Arsenal1986

What you decide to do in the end?

goatpeter

JohnGerard,
Can I ask if you already have a law qualification or do you already meet the requirements to sit the FE1s?

goatpeter

Never mind, I've just read your earlier post about the BA.

Please don't take my earlier post too seriously, as I'm sure that was just a bad year. The usual failure rate when I was doing it was 70%.
Could you do the LL.B offered by UCC? It's only a year long if you do it full time. I know someone who failed every exam in the UoL LL.B intermediate exam (but later did a BCL at U.C.C and did very well. Not only would you get a higher final grade for a fraction of the work, but, from my own experience, you would also find it easier to get an apprenticeship in Ireland. It is all very well for the UoL LL.B to be a high quality degree, but if employers in Ireland don't know this, does it really matter? Of course, if you're set on moving to the UK, that is a different thing altogether.

Arsenal1986

[/QUOTE] Not only would you get a higher final grade for a fraction of the work, but, from my own experience, you would also find it easier to get an apprenticeship in Ireland. It is all very well for the UoL LL.B to be a high quality degree, but if employers in Ireland don't know this, does it really matter? Of course, if you're set on moving to the UK, that is a different thing altogether.[/QUOTE]

On this, I think once you had this completed you could legitimately put on your CV-

2010 -2013 University College London, University of London - LLB (Distance Learning)

Or something to that effect. What I am saying is you could use the UCL on your CV, which is a seriously prestigious brand name. UCL will be mentioned on the Degree transcript and its not like your lying saying you attended class there - you'd put distnace learning somewhere beside it.

Having said that, if it is really, really hard to do well in you might be better off getting a good degree result from an Irish University rather than a pass degree from UOL.

goatpeter

Why not compare my experience of studying as an external student at UoL with those of a UCC law graduate?
Firstly, as I’ve already said, most of the students in my class studying for the external LL.B failed. One of these had a Diploma in Law after following a three year law course at what was then a regional technical college, but is now an institute of technology. This qualification entitled her to go on to UCC at graduate entry level to do a BCL over two years. Instead, she decided to do the UoL external LL.B. When she failed every one of the UoL intermediate exams, she decided that she would now pursue the BCL at UCC. Here she did much better and received a grade high enough to be offered a masters at Trinity. She is now a solicitor.
Unlike her, I did not fail my intermediate exams with UoL and went on get a 2.2. My application to study for a masters at UCC was rejected. Despite trying very hard, I didn’t manage to secure an apprenticeship. The irony here is that if I had failed my intermediate exams at UoL , just as she did , I, like her, would have done a BCL at UCC , and would, most probably, be a solicitor today. Failing those exams was the best thing that could have happened to her law career.
Please bear in mind that this was 15 years ago and I may just have been plain unlucky. Also, things might have changed dramatically since then as far as recognition of the UoL LL.B by employers and universities is concerned. However, I would not even contemplate the UoL LL.B without first researching what current attitudes to it are here in Ireland. I would be very pleased to learn that things have changed.

NOIMAGINATION

Arsenal1986 wrote: »

Not only would you get a higher final grade for a fraction of the work, but, from my own experience, you would also find it easier to get an apprenticeship in Ireland. It is all very well for the UoL LL.B to be a high quality degree, but if employers in Ireland don't know this, does it really matter? Of course, if you're set on moving to the UK, that is a different thing altogether.[/QUOTE]

On this, I think once you had this completed you could legitimately put on your CV-

2010 -2013 University College London, University of London - LLB (Distance Learning)

Or something to that effect. What I am saying is you could use the UCL on your CV, which is a seriously prestigious brand name. UCL will be mentioned on the Degree transcript and its not like your lying saying you attended class there - you'd put distnace learning somewhere beside it.

Having said that, if it is really, really hard to do well in you might be better off getting a good degree result from an Irish University rather than a pass degree from UOL.[/QUOTE]

Why do you think UCL will be mentioned on the transcript - the UoL external website specifically says the LLB is an intercollegiate degree - no specific institution is mentioned, and I don't think any specific college will be mentioned on the transcript

Arsenal1986

I'm basing this solely on the LLM, which has UCL on the transcript as the providing the Academic Direction for the course. Therefore, with the LLM in any case I think you can legitimately put UCL down on your Cv in some capacity anyhow.

goatpeter

A friend of mine worked in a law firm for a time, and while she was there C.V.s came in all the time from law degree holders from UK universities, many of them prestigious universities such as Kings and the University of Edinburgh. None of these ever came to the attention of the partners, simply because the secretary whose job it was to filter the viable applications was parochially minded and simply uninformed. She had a hierarchy of universities in her mind, at the pinnacle of which was Trinity and at the bottom any British university.

Arsenal1986

goatpeter wrote: »

Why not compare my experience of studying as an external student at UoL with those of a UCC law graduate?
Firstly, as I’ve already said, most of the students in my class studying for the external LL.B failed. One of these had a Diploma in Law after following a three year law course at what was then a regional technical college, but is now an institute of technology. This qualification entitled her to go on to UCC at graduate entry level to do a BCL over two years. Instead, she decided to do the UoL external LL.B. When she failed every one of the UoL intermediate exams, she decided that she would now pursue the BCL at UCC. Here she did much better and received a grade high enough to be offered a masters at Trinity. She is now a solicitor.
Unlike her, I did not fail my intermediate exams with UoL and went on get a 2.2. My application to study for a masters at UCC was rejected. Despite trying very hard, I didn’t manage to secure an apprenticeship. The irony here is that if I had failed my intermediate exams at UoL , just as she did , I, like her, would have done a BCL at UCC , and would, most probably, be a solicitor today. Failing those exams was the best thing that could have happened to her law career.
Please bear in mind that this was 15 years ago and I may just have been plain unlucky. Also, things might have changed dramatically since then as far as recognition of the UoL LL.B by employers and universities is concerned. However, I would not even contemplate the UoL LL.B without first researching what current attitudes to it are here in Ireland. I would be very pleased to learn that things have changed.

Thats a seriously sobering thought for the OP.

jOHNGERARD50

thanks for all the posts , I have just in process of painting the house so I am having a quick look at the postings. Some very interesting comments and experiences. What I have read certainly give me a lot to think about.
I plan to go to London in August so I will visit UCL to check out fully the inside story. What I have learned so far is that UCC has the best offering regards public law evening classes and it is amazing to say that here in Dublin there are plenty of courses based on ability to pay. So far DIT are the only public institute to offer an LLB at moderate prices. So far, I have found out from them as follows. The BA in law is part of their LLB and the idea is that the BA will now require 9 subjects to be completed instead of the current 6.
If a person then wants to do the LLB they must get at least a 2.2 as their are 80 places on offer. So they will select on the basis of best results more than likely. As regards to the contributor that did the LLB at UCL 15 years ago, what I see now is very good online resources

http://www.londonexternal.ac.uk/current_students/programme_resources/laws/subject_guides/index.shtml

I also think that there has to be some reason why someone is passing Irish law degrees easier that uk ones. My wife who is not Irish is doing a Masters in Maths, she finds for example the standard lower that what she is used to and wants to do a P.HD and was advised to go to UK by the senior lecturer as they are cutting all funding in science despite the talk about the knowledge economy.

goatpeter

I'm sure there are many universities in the UK offering substandard law degrees. Ireland, at least, offers a form of quality control in the FE1s.

jOHNGERARD50

I wish to thank all the contributors to this topic, I am closing it off and will see what the future holds... best of luck to you all

Lemonjug

best of luck

rbenjamin

I did both the B.A. Law and LLB degrees at DIT. They are good degrees just like any other law degree from reputable law schools. Lectures are taught by renowned academics with experience teaching at eg Trinity College, and others are barristers of many years of experience. A good law degree is just as good as 1. those who teach it, 2. the astuteness and competence of the student. Believe me, I have five University degrees, two masters from NUI universities and I found the DIT LLB as challenging and academically rewarding as any other degree I studied. I believe the King's Inn exams and Law Society exams rationalise legal entrance irrespective of where one obtained his/ her degree. I think its a matter of perceptions. It does not necessarily follow that if one gets a LLB degree from a reputable university then one passes the legal entrance exams, just it does not mean that a person who does LLB degree from DIT doesn't make it. The fact is that the DIT LLB degree is legally recognised by guarantors of legal education in Ireland.

Bepolite

Are you sure you expertise don't lie more in social media marketing?