Has Obama as CIC got any choice but to sack McChrystal now.

ynotdu

I have to say i just get more disillusioned almost every day by Obamas administration.If it is not Neil Armstrong{who never spoke out of line} saying he believed Obama was misled by the Augustine commision who advised him to basicly shut down the America's civilion space programme leaving the US with no way for Astronauts into Space except through the mercies of Russia until ???????????????.

McChrystal has been summoned to the White House after giving an interview to the Rolling Stone in which he criticised the CIC and most of the Administration.Obama has refused to confirm or deny that McChrystal will be sacked.

IMO Obama has no choice but to sack him despite the high esteem he is held in by many.

My personal cards on the table,I could not have voted for a Republican in the last election.I hoped for a Democrat win.I was delighted by the hugh achievement by Obama on the health care bill,even so My preference would have been for H Clinton.

What are You Military guys opinion on a Top General undermining the Commander in Chiefs authority in such a public way?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0623/1224273108157.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/politics/10386356.stm

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128013829

just heard on the BBC news that if the sacking was to happen it would be the first time in over fifty years ago when President Truman sacked McArthur during the Korean war.

correction with thanks to Amerika who posted the actual rolling stone article in the American Politics forum:

Taking the advice of both the Pentagon and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he {Obama}also fired Gen. David McKiernan – then the U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan {in 2009}

BluePlanet

ynotdu wrote: »

I have to say i just get more disillusioned almost every day by Obamas administration.If it is not Neil Armstrong{who never spoke out of line} saying he believed Obama was misled by the Augustine commision who advised him to basicly shut down the America's civilion space programme leaving the US with no way for Astronauts into Space except through the mercies of Russia until ???????????????.

Why? Is somebody still living in the Cold War?
They are saving money by buying cheap flights off Russia, compared to the cost of maintaining the ageing shuttle fleet.

You do realise it was the Bush admin that axed the Shuttles, Obama hasn't reversed that decision.

It probably makes sense as if yanks are going to look at everthing thru a Cold War lens, then maybe it will help kick off the next gen space craft.

gizmo555

He has to sack him. As Truman famously said about his dismissal of McArthur:

I fired him because he wouldn't respect the authority of the President. I didn't fire him because he was a dumb son of a bitch, although he was, but that's not against the law for generals. If it was, half to three-quarters of them would be in jail.

OS119

you can't have a senior officer - or indeed a junior officer - effectively telling the soldiers he or she puts into harms way that the people making the big strategic decisions aren't interested, and that, by their (in)actions, the deaths and maimings of those soldiers will be to no avail. the phrase 'utterly catastrophic for moralé' instantly leaps to mind...

thats the easy bit - the big problem is that what McCrystal said is, by and large, true.

if McCrystal goes for embarrassing some senior politicians, what should happen to senior politicians who, because they can't be arsed, lose a war?

there are two big sins here - a very senior officer (and probably representative of a slew of other very senior officers) who publicly slags down the civilian leadership on defence policy in the middle of a large war, and a civilian leadership who, by and large, ignore the war that they ordered and refuse to take actions that they previously agreed to - and who risk losing that war - becuase they prefer to concentrate on domestic political advantage.

two big sins, but theres a scale of sinning, and i know which i consider to be the really big one...

iceage

I'm wondering who would have the balls and fancy the chance of taking up his position?

Any suitable candidates?

ANXIOUS

IMO he has to go, you can't have a man with that responsbilty not have complete public respect for his cic. What is said in private is different, I would also look at a possible court martial.

gizmo555

The Rolling Stone article which caused all the furore is now online in its entirety here.

(There is, by the way, a very tangential Irish connection in the description of the scene in Kitty O'Shea's bar in Paris, with most of McChrystal's staff, as the reporter delicately puts it, "completely shitfaced" and dancing Irish jigs . . .)

iceage

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyharnden/100044536/breaking-general-stanley-mcchrystal-tenders-his-resignation/

Hmm Seems its a done deal.

PeterIanStaker

He'll go Darth Vader on him . . . .

gizmo555

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

He'll go Darth Vader on him . . . .

LMAO!

ynotdu

CNN are confirming that McChystal has been sacked.

General Petraeus to take his place .

Obama to Speak shortly.

ynotdu

BluePlanet wrote: »

Why? Is somebody still living in the Cold War?
They are saving money by buying cheap flights off Russia, compared to the cost of maintaining the ageing shuttle fleet.

You do realise it was the Bush admin that axed the Shuttles, Obama hasn't reversed that decision.

It probably makes sense as if yanks are going to look at everthing thru a Cold War lens, then maybe it will help kick off the next gen space craft.

Hi Blueplanet despite running the risk of dragging thread off-topic,I had to respond to this.

I will make it short as possible it is all available for reading on the Space&Astronomy forum{although to get the full picture many threads would have to be read}

The Shuttle fleet was meant to be replaced by the Constellation programme,Bush never funded it enough and it had fallen so far behind Augustine's review and recommendations were not just accepted but actually expanded upon after a long painful wait for NASA and a long painful wait for Obama's decisions which most of the American Space experts considered disasterous.

NASA Admin Charlie Bolden has usurped a bill before congress demanding that the dismantlement of the structures needed for Constellation be stopped,using a little known clause in ALL NASA contracts.
{Bolden is currently under investigation for a conflict of interests,Ironicly he too carries the title General before his name.}

Obama ditherhed just like He did about McChystals request for the troop surge{whilst troops died}He wanted a re-run of the Afghan election which Independant observers had all agreed was not free and fair.In the end and just a week before the 2nd election the opposistion leader in Afghanistan conceded defeat.
Shortly after Kharzzi was accepted as the legitimate leader of Afghanistan by Obama,Kharzzi sacked the electoral commision who had said the election was unfair and replaced them with his cronies.

Obama first set out his new vision for NASA in Dec 2009 and Visited the Kennedy Space Center in Feb 2010 where he stated and i quote "I will not leave America's Astronauts at the whims of ANY foreign power"
That was just total Bull by him as things have turned out.

Sally Ride{first American woman in Space and now holding a very senior posistion in NASA} had a plan that was workable to extend the Shuttle programme until America had a way to get its own Astronauts home from Space until America had an alternative to Shuttle,it too was scrapped.
Many thousands of NASA employees have and will lose their jobs over this.

Nothing got to do with the 'cold war' just common sense that Russia may be America's friend today but that could change overnight{as it could with ANY country}

The present President of Russia is just keeping Putins seat warm,and Putin is pulling the strings,until he can under the Russian Constitution run again for President.
Putin has vast respect in Russia for not just getting it up off its knees but actually giving the Russian people a chance to earn money and have self respect again. He is ex KGB and can be extremely ruthless and has used blackmail in the past to achieve his goals.

The International Space Station will untill at least 2020 have 2-4 Americans aboard via seats on the Soyuz at $53 million a pop!
I would not like to be up there for six months at a time with no guarantee that some dispute between the USA and Russia could leave Me stranded.

I suspect Obama is too Naive for the job he holds at this stage TBH.

ynotdu

ANXIOUS wrote: »

IMO he has to go, you can't have a man with that responsbilty not have complete public respect for his cic. What is said in private is different, I would also look at a possible court martial.

Hi ANXIOUS,
although I stated in My first post that i thought Obama had no choice but to sack MC,i don't believe the Man deserves a court martial.
He ballsed up but He was also put under undue pressure strain and stress by the Administration that appointed him for a long long time.

OS119

ynotdu wrote: »

Hi ANXIOUS,
although I stated in My first post that i thought Obama had no choice but to sack MC,i don't believe the Man deserves a court martial.
He ballsed up but He was also put under undue pressure strain and stress by the Administration that appointed him for a long long time.

i'd pretty much agree - its a bit like kicking your pet dog for a week and then being outraged when it finally gets bored and bites you.

Obama, and his team, (and i would of voted for him were i a US citizen) has been a severe disappointment on the foriegn policy front - he has the cerebral talant to devise strategies that should deliver results, and (thank fcuk) has the orative ability to communicate those strategies and the importance of the objective, but doesn't follow through with them, baulks at the small print and, at the problems heart, simply isn't that interested in the policy objective.

iceage

I reckon that McCrystal isn't a stupid man. These "errors of judgement" were a clever ploy to push Obama to take the only action he could and restore face somehow from these moments of media madness:rolleyes: and either request his resignation or give him the bullet if he refused.

Now Stanley McCrytal will go down as the General who gave the President the finger, and not the one left holding the baby so to speak of the ensuing shambles of US policy not to drive on the War in Afghanistan.

And all this on top of the fact that Obama hand picked McCrystal.. I wouldn't envy his replacements position. As I said earlier I reckon McCrytal isn't a stupid man.

ynotdu

OS119 wrote: »

i'd pretty much agree - its a bit like kicking your pet dog for a week and then being outraged when it finally gets bored and bites you

Dang OS why cant i phrase what i mean in such a succinct manner!:)

ynotdu

iceage wrote: »

I reckon that McCrystal isn't a stupid man. These "errors of judgement" were a clever ploy to push Obama to take the only action he could and restore face somehow from these moments of media madness:rolleyes: and either request his resignation or give him the bullet if he refused.

Now Stanley McCrytal will go down as the General who gave the President the finger, and not the one left holding the baby so to speak of the ensuing shambles of US policy not to drive on the War in Afghanistan.

And all this on top of the fact that Obama hand picked McCrystal.. I wouldn't envy his replacements position. As I said earlier I reckon McCrytal isn't a stupid man.

Hi iceage,as you know i really enjoy Your posts,and am very much in Your debt for You pointing Me in the direction of blogs and a PM You sent Me:)

McChrystal is no doubt a clever man but one who seems to have been driven half crazed by a President who appointed him to a job but dithered far too long making a decision based on his recommendations,and worried more about the morality of war and polictical correctness than the safety of the troops he praise's so often,left without sufficient manpower for so long.

Some of Your post reads like a conspiracy theory{sorry:)}

I think McChrystal just was pis*ed off, got pisse* and shot his mouth off TBH!

There is as We all know an 'Elephant in the room' about Obama{one i hasten to add is not the reason i would have preferred Hillary}One i am sure despite his best efforts to not make skin color an issue of his presidancy lurks deep in Many sections of the Military starting with the joint chiefs and trickling down to the most humble of jobs in the Army}

For Me He entered the White house full of inspiring rhetoric,but clueless and naive about reality and dare i say it easily led{much like Bush jnr}

He won the War but So far has only won one battle on healthcare.
If He is going to 'grow into the job' He should have started sooner as should his staff who have let him down so woefully{loosing Ted Kennedys old seat?}

Sincere regards.