Anyone regret buying property?

SamG

I'm curious... We've heard all the arguments from all the vested interests, including govt. about the benefits of owning property and "getting on the ladder".

Anyone regret this now and look with envy on people still renting (longing for the days of crappy landlords and depressing wallpaper) or are you genuinely happy to be paying for your own place, confident that it'll all work out okay in the end?

Would love to hear some of your thoughts on this... do share.

I'll start - Having lived in France and having a French wife, we moved back here to Malahide, Co. Dubline, 6 years ago. Wife was always reluctant to buy (coming from a renting culture) and she thought the quality of Irish houses was pathetic. But me... being Irish (and not as bright as her) decided, NO, we need to stake our claim on this Celtic Tiger thingy and buy. So we saw a place we liked and decided to make an offer. A broker came around and we decided to go for an €800,000 mortgage (hey, it's Malahide and this was '07). But we never got our act together to actually fill in the forms and by the time we came around to doing it the market was well and truly crashing. I thank my stars every day but somewhere, in a parallel universe... there's another me who took that mortgage. And that guy is well and truly screwed. Meanwhile, in this one, I was saved from some very serious stress (possibly ruin) by a combination of continental savvy (very different from the Irish savvy, as practiced by Liz Kane and her ilk) and sheer luck. Cheers.

Mezcita

SamG wrote: »

I'm curious... We've heard all the arguments from all the vested interests, including govt. about the benefits of owning property and "getting on the ladder".

Anyone regret this now and look with envy on people still renting (longing for the days of crappy landlords and depressing wallpaper) or are you genuinely happy to be paying for your own place, confident that it'll all work out okay in the end?

Would love to hear some of your thoughts on this... do share.

I'll start - Having lived in France and having a French wife, we moved back here to Malahide, Co. Dubline, 6 years ago. Wife was always reluctant to buy (coming from a renting culture) and she thought the quality of Irish houses was pathetic. But me... being Irish (and not as bright as her) decided, NO, we need to stake our claim on this Celtic Tiger thingy and buy. So we saw a place we liked and decided to make an offer. A broker came around and we decided to go for an €800,000 mortgage (hey, it's Malahide and this was '07). But we never got our act together to actually fill in the forms and by the time we came around to doing it the market was well and truly crashing. I thank my stars every day but somewhere, in a parallel universe... there's another me who took that mortgage. And that guy is well and truly screwed. Meanwhile, in this one, I was saved from some very serious stress (possibly ruin) by a combination of continental savvy (very different from the Irish savvy, as practiced by Liz Kane and her ilk) and sheer luck. Cheers.

So a thread where people can admit to being in huge amounts of negative equity while you get to bask in the delight that you dodged the bullet?

Pass.

Mezcita

Mezcita wrote: »

So a thread where people can admit to being in huge amounts of negative equity while you get to bask in the delight that you dodged the bullet?

Pass.

And tell us all how he was about to borrow €800,000. Reminds me of the knob ends in the motors section who say recommend me a car for €loads and €loads.

D3PO

I bought back in 05 and dont regret it.

Yes I'm in negitive equity, but hey. I managed to get a tracker mortgage so ironically enough Im still paying less monthly than if I bought the same house right now even at the reduced market rate.

Im sure this will change before we hit the floor, but over the length of the mortgage I think having the tracker will probably end up making it work out better (depends how much further the markets fall i guess)

even if financially it ends up not being the ideal thing so be it. I bought in the area I want and am not stuck in a poorly built new build house or shoebox apartment.

However unsurprisingly the large majority of people in neg equity will have regreted it.

The_Morrigan

I'll Bite.

I don't regret it.
- I bought Summer 2008 -
- I'm not in negative equity -
- I love my apartment -

Yes, there are months when things are tight, but I'm not starving and I'm not in (bad) debt.
And if I had to do it all over again - I would
Not everyone is moaning about the state of the property market in Ireland - some people are quite happy with their lot, they just are the minority.

SamG

And tell us all how he was about to borrow €800,000. Reminds me of the knob ends in the motors section who say recommend me a car for €loads and €loads.

Yeah, I guess you can read it that way... Be vitriolic if you wish.

a thread where people can admit to being in huge amounts of negative equity while you get to bask in the delight that you dodged the bullet

I don't mean to gloat about anything... I'm just relaying my own story and want to hear the flipside. Buying property was sold as the only viable lifestyle option in this country for so many years and now all that has been turned on its head. But has it though? I think it's a valid question and worth exploring. Where better but here?

ei.sdraob

nope no regrets, if anything im quite happy about the path I took, still regularly check daft but nothing comes close

* completing the self-build now (about 10 month since the "adventure" started)
* putting in alot of extras like extra insulation, triple-glazing, heat recovery, solar etc
* nice peaceful location with land

and most importantly

no debt

OMD

No regrets. Bought first house about 10 years ago. Bought and sold a couple since then. Bought current house about 5 years ago. Probably not in negative equity (got a very large mortgage) but may be soon.

Reason I have a large mortgage is that I have a very good tracker and only a fool would pay it off early in current environment. Used the money I earned from buying and selling other houses to take 2 years off work to spend with my children and can currently afford to be part time. Had I decided 10 years ago to rent not buy then I would have paid way more in rent over that time than I have in interest and not have a house I love and have decorated as I want.

omahaid

Bought 10 years ago, so no, dont regret it

The_Conductor

I bought a reasonable sized townhouse 9 years ago in a great location. I'm not in negative equity- but I did pay over the odds at the time- and know I'll have problems selling, as there is a management company involved. At the time kids were not on the horizon, and considerations such as a garden etc, did not enter the equation. We are now stuck where we are- not in negative equity- but incapable of moving- and our current accommodation does not suit our current and future needs.

You don't need to be in negative equity- to be well and truly stuck........

Sydney2007

Bought a house in 2008. Up to my neck in debt and negative equity, and always one month away from defaulting. However, now have the house 2 years, and absolutely love it, and have no regrets at all. I am delighted - if I went to the Bank now for money, I don't think I'ld get enough for a bicycle!. I need it for the next 10-12 years, so if I can manage to hold on to it, hopefully the negative equity will be gone, and I can regard the payments to then as rent. In the meantime, I will have had exactly the house I want, in the place I want, and the security of not having to constantly move around and look for other suitable accommodation.

bernyh

Yep big regrets.... huge massive humungous regrets..... we put a deposit down in late 04, moved in in April 05, found out I was pregnant in May 05... not a big deal if we hadn't bought an apt... we were gonna sell in early 06 but decided as baby was only a few months old the hassle was too much for us at that moment..... but now!!! I am devestated we didn't sell for more than 100k profit, we might not have been sitting pretty but we would at least have a house. As it stands at the moment I can't see us having a house in the forseeable future...

We can't cope with the possibility of renting out this place and renting a house because we are too afraid of being left with payin a mortgage and rent if the apt is left empty for a period, which is very possible, if we can't cope with the way the neighbours are, I'm sure tenants will not be too please with it...

Caught in the proverbial "vicious circle!"

Dandelion6

I kind of regret it too. I've always tended to move around a lot and when I came to Dublin I thought I'd finally found the place I wanted to live forever. Bought a really great place on the affordable housing scheme a few years ago. Then the wanderlust came back and for the past couple years I've been dying to get out of here but I'm pretty much stuck - can't sell due to the state of the market, can't rent due to the AH conditions.

I don't totally regret it because it is a really nice place, but I do feel as though I succumbed to pressure to buy when it's not really in my nature to be tied down to one place for a long period of time.

I thought you couldn't sell an affordable house shortly after buying ? I may well be wrong.

dan_d

Hmm.Been thinking about this lately.Bought in April 08 after a year of research and reading the signs in the building industry. 4 bed, semi detached in a great place for us with an okay front and back garden - it's a 10 year old house in a nice estate. We got a good deal for the money at that time, we knew what was coming in the housing market, we got a tracker and had a deposit.

Recently a corner house in our estate went up for sale for 130000 less than what it had been up for last year. In a way I was kind of kicking myself because that would be great house to buy. On the other hand, we'd never have a hope in hell of getting a mortgage now - both site engineers.We'd be laughed out of the bank.

I think we are in maybe 50k of negative equity - it's hard to know. When we bought our one criteria was to buy a house that we could live in long term, because we knew sooner or later that things were going to go...probably sooner, as the building industry knew long before the media did what was happening. You hear stuff from the lads on site.At this point in time we've a good bit paid off the mortgage considering we've only had it just 2 years (15k) and right now, we can still afford it comfortably. If needs be we can convert a decent size attic and we have a big kitchen and living room, so plenty of space.

I think I don't regret it - because while there are great bargains out there now, we simply wouldn't get the mortgage, regardless of whether we could afford it or not. We've had some great times in our house, and all our friends visit, we've got lovely neighbours. Our thinking right now is that if we really want to move at some point, we'll look at paying the balance to be out of negative equity and work from there. It's not an insurmountable amount over 4/5 years - better than some people are stuck with I suppose - so no, I don't regret it.

It's not something I'd rub in people's faces however, as I feel so sorry for those who are stuck in a massive amount of neg equity and a small property. If that was me, I'd be in bits about it.

dan_d

OMD wrote: »

No regrets. Bought first house about 10 years ago. Bought and sold a couple since then. Bought current house about 5 years ago. Probably not in negative equity (got a very large mortgage) but may be soon.

Reason I have a large mortgage is that I have a very good tracker and only a fool would pay it off early in current environment. Used the money I earned from buying and selling other houses to take 2 years off work to spend with my children and can currently afford to be part time. Had I decided 10 years ago to rent not buy then I would have paid way more in rent over that time than I have in interest and not have a house I love and have decorated as I want.

OMD just re-read your post. Why do you say only a fool would pay off the tracker early at the moment? Surely reducing the capital of your mortgage would mean that when rates do go up, your payments are still less because your capital is?
PM if you don't want to completely derail the thread!!

D3PO

dan_d wrote: »

OMD just re-read your post. Why do you say only a fool would pay off the tracker early at the moment? Surely reducing the capital of your mortgage would mean that when rates do go up, your payments are still less because your capital is?
PM if you don't want to completely derail the thread!!

depending on your tracker deal you might be paying as little as 2% interest and maybe even less.

many bank accounts are offering better interest rates on savings than this. Therefore it would be foolish to pay off the tracker when the money would yield more in a savings account

MysticalSoul

I bought house in Cork in 2001, and sold in 2006 to buy apartment in Dublin in 2006. I don't regret it - yes, due to pay cuts etc, things are tight, however I do love it as is my place to make it as I wish. Am currently contemplating paint colours to repaint a room or two. I love that I can choose how to decorate it, and can also choose my own housemates when I rent a room out. Even though things may be tight financially, I am managing, and am not on the breadline yet. I, for one, am glad I bought. I never bought into the whole celtic tiger business, as I always felt anyone could see it could not last at the level it was.

At some point in the future I would hope to be able to buy a house, however am not stressing about that, as for now, I do love my apartment, and suits my needs perfectly.

Benedict

There is an element of shadenfreude about SamG's blog. And being Irish, we tend to be reluctant to admit we made an error. The people who say they are in Neg Eq but don't care, would leap at the chance of turning back the clock so they could walk away from the sale. But they will never admit that. Because nobody wants to be pitied.

But I think SamG's point is a good one insofar as it might help other to avoid NE. (Neg Eq). Because there are people buying today who are going to be in NE next year - not to the same extent - but the asking prices are still outrageous (average house in Dublin is x10 average annual wage).

If anyone out there is buying a house, offer 50% of the asking price. (Unless you like NE)

Be warned!

Millie

I have only one regret - I didn't do my homework in regard to the neighbourhood.

I bought a lovely little red brick cottage in 06 that I love but the house across the road that has been rented out to the HSE has caused me awful stress for the past two years.
It's currently unoccupied for the past number of weeks and the neighbourhood has been heavenly.

I didn't go overboard with the mortgage and would be surprised if I was in high negative equity (hopefully none).
On the plus side am glad it is a house and at least I don't have mangement charges to fork out.

D3PO

Benedict wrote: »

There is an element of shadenfreude about SamG's blog. And being Irish, we tend to be reluctant to admit we made an error. The people who say they are in Neg Eq but don't care, would leap at the chance of turning back the clock so they could walk away from the sale. But they will never admit that.
!

Not true.

• If I didnt buy I wouldnt have been able to get a tracker mortgage
• I would pay approx €800 per month to rent the same house (asking rents are 1k) where as I pay a little under €600 interest on the capital sum of my mortgage. The "wasted" money is therfore less by having my mortgage.
• I wouldnt have the freedom to decorate as I choose, to have the furniture that I choose.
• I would potentailly have to deal with EA's and Landlords who are muppets

Dont assume that because somebody is in "negitive equity" that they would jump at the chance to have not bought. Nobody said paying over the odds wasnt an "error"

paying for a new car is an "error" i mean you drive it out of the showroom and its devalued immediatly. Doesnt mean that people who buy new cars have to regret it.

quozl

D3PO wrote: »

[*]I would pay approx €800 per month to rent the same house (asking rents are 1k) where as I pay a little under €600 interest on the capital sum of my mortgage. The "wasted" money is therfore less by having my mortgage.

If you're going to work out wasted money then it should really be a comparision between (interest paid +/- capital depreciation/appreciation) versus (rent paid).

I'm pretty confident that the depreciation on the property I'm currently renting is more than the monthly rent. And I'd guess will continue to be so for at least another year, maybe multiple years.

Not having to deal with EAs is almost without price though

D3PO

quozl wrote: »

If you're going to work out wasted money then it should really be a comparision between (interest paid + capital depreciation) versus (rent paid).

.

Why should I ? your argument I assume is I could buy at a lower price due to depreciation right ?

who says Im not putting the difference between the rent & mortgage away for purchasing a second property down the line ? (im not by the way ive increased my AVC's for my pension taking advantage of the tax savings, and returns it will give me over the long term)

you cant do straight maths anyway. Assuming somebody will put away all the savings doesnt attribute for human nature which says people will spend more disposable income because they have more disposable income.

i wasnt trying to turn this into a figures conversation. I was just rebutting the comment that everybody in neg equity that says there happy enough is lying. Thats not the case

quozl

D3PO wrote: »

Why should I ? your argument I assume is I could buy at a lower price due to depreciation right ?

Not really, more that the extra money tied up in borrowings could be put into some other income generating source, instead of being lost over time to a depreciating asset. The money from which could go towards your AVCs etc.

I take your point about only wanting to disagree with the general statement about everybody in Negative Equity. I just disagree with one of your points and didn't want to leave it unopposed.

OMD

Benedict wrote: »

- but the asking prices are still outrageous (average house in Dublin is x10 average annual wage).

If anyone out there is buying a house, offer 50% of the asking price. (Unless you like NE)

Be warned!

Benedict we have been through this before. Average property in Dublin is about 6 times average wage at about €230,000. The average price outside Dublin is about €175,000 or 4.5 times average wage. (actual figures from ESRI will be released in next few weeks).

As D3PO has said rising intrest rates are going to be a huge problem for people buying in the future. In the UK bank interest rates are 0.5% compared to 1% for us in Eurozone. Despite their rate being half ours their mortgage rates are generally much higher than ours. People buying next year or the year after will have to pay a much higher interest rate than someone who bought a few years ago.

My current interest rate is 1.75%. No one will ever in the future get a better rate than that. I may soon go into negative equity but my repayments will be less than someone who buys a similar house to mine at a lower price.

So for example someone borrowing €300,000 over 30 years at 1.75% will pay €1069 a month
Someone buying the same property next year at €200,000 over 30 years at 4.75% will pay €1031

irlrobins

No regrets.

I was trying to purchase a property for a few years but always found that despite my savings and salary going up, prices rose quicker. But this proved to be a good thing as last year the gap between what I wanted and what I could afford disappeared.

I now own a 2 bed apt right on the Luas line. 20 mins door to door for work. Nice small development, high build quality etc. Extremely happy with my purchase. I'm a single male btw, so no concerns about out growing the place in the next few years.

Also have the advantage that due to many years of saving when I was unable to purchase meant I only have to get a 80% mortgage.

OMD

OMD wrote: »

Benedict we have been through this before. Average property in Dublin is about 6 times average wage at about €230,000. The average price outside Dublin is about €175,000 or 4.5 times average wage. (actual figures from ESRI will be released in next few weeks).

Benedict is still peeved because he need house prices to be at 25% of what they currently are before he can buy

Benedict

OMD - I won't labour the point about the income multiple related to average house purchase price. But in a recent article in the Sunday Trib. Property Section, they were adamant that the average price of a house in Dublin was 343K. And I think that you pitch the average wage too high also - and remember that the average wage has fallen and is set to fall up to a further 10% in the coming 12 months.

Be that as it may, the notion that a person who has queued overnight to pay 700k for a 2 bed apartment now worth 250k (if they can find a buyer) is absurd - tracker loan or not! The truth is, they're financially destroyed for decades - maybe for life. And 2 bed apartment in good Dublin areas were getting up to 700k at the height of the boom!

Nobody is gloating - but if people don't recognise the dangers, it will happen again - and is currently happening - though with smaller sums involved.

D3PO

quozl wrote: »

Not really, more that the extra money tied up in borrowings could be put into some other income generating source, instead of being lost over time to a depreciating asset. The money from which could go towards your AVCs etc.

I take your point about only wanting to disagree with the general statement about everybody in Negative Equity. I just disagree with one of your points and didn't want to leave it unopposed.

true thats why I didnt want to take this thread in a maths direction. You have valid points and do I.

Every situation is different there is no one size fits all here. I just wanted to rebut the poster who said that anybody whos in neg equity that says their happy isnt telling the truth.

we all could make better financial decisions all the time that doesnt mean we regret not making them.

every financial winner means theirs a loser on the other end thats capitalism for you.

OMD

Benedict wrote: »

OMD - I won't labour the point about the income multiple related to average house purchase price. But in a recent article in the Sunday Trib. Property Section, they were adamant that the average price of a house in Dublin was 343K. And I think that you pitch the average wage too high also - and remember that the average wage has fallen and is set to fall up to a further 10% in the coming 12 months.

Ah, so a journalist with The Sunday Tribune is right and the ESRI is wrong. :rolleyes:

Benedict wrote: »

Be that as it may, the notion that a person who has queued overnight to pay 700k for a 2 bed apartment now worth 250k (if they can find a buyer) is absurd - tracker loan or not! The truth is, they're financially destroyed for decades - maybe for life. And 2 bed apartment in good Dublin areas were getting up to 700k at the height of the boom!

Well of course they wouldn't be happy, but how many people do you think did that? The vast majority of people in this country did not buy at the peak. People are saying they are comfortable with their negative equity. Others are saying they are not happy. Why do you find it strange that these 2 situations can exist at the same time?

D3PO

Benedict wrote: »

OMD - I won't labour the point about the income multiple related to average house purchase price. But in a recent article in the Sunday Trib. Property Section, they were adamant that the average price of a house in Dublin was 343K. And I think that you pitch the average wage too high also - and remember that the average wage has fallen and is set to fall up to a further 10% in the coming 12 months.

Be that as it may, the notion that a person who has queued overnight to pay 700k for a 2 bed apartment now worth 250k (if they can find a buyer) is absurd - tracker loan or not! The truth is, they're financially destroyed for decades - maybe for life. And 2 bed apartment in good Dublin areas were getting up to 700k at the height of the boom!

Nobody is gloating - but if people don't recognise the dangers, it will happen again - and is currently happening - though with smaller sums involved.

ah the property section of a rag thats been proven wrong lots and lots over the last few years. Yep gotta believe what they print :rolleyes:

as for wages falling 10% over the next year says who ? There is no way that will happen. Disposible income may fall by that amount but wages will not.

a quick tot of my 10 closest friends (6 have had pay rises this year, 3 pay freezes and 1 a pay cut)