Anyone regret buying property?

kippy

Benedict wrote: »

I'm actually not upset about anything! And I agree that people who have bought at hugely inflated prices should try to forget about it now and get on with their lives as best they can. I simply think that raising the matter may help current buyers to be more careful and to be aware that current asking prices are still way too high and will land them in neg eq. The rip-off isn't anything like it was - but it is still there and brushing it under the carpet is mean to the current and future buyers. People who are currently in serious trouble and would have been okay if they'd waited now wish that people had talked about what was going on. Instead, Bertie people who mentioned it should "commit suicide". The whole purpose of this thread should be to warn current buyers to beware. The rip-off hasn't ended! Those who were ripped off can do nothing about it. But let's help those who haven't been ripped off yet!

Have you tried to get a mortage lately for these "cheaper" houses?

Of course there was a bubble and people paid over the odds, at the time it was market price, they made the call that for them buying that particular house was in their best interests.
The "Warnings" or "lessons" you want to teach to current buyers were there for all buyers. Those "best practices" havent changed.

gurramok

kippy wrote: »

What would you suggest people do? Fire themselves off the edges of cliffs because they are in negative equity?

No, nothing of the sort. There is a price on happiness and some people will get that happiness at whatever price.

kippy

gurramok wrote: »

No, nothing of the sort. There is a price on happiness and some people will get that happiness at whatever price.

Happiness is a state of mind, if that state of mind is influenced by material goods wholely then you need to review your lifestyle.
Happiness for me is health. Not owning a house. Owning a house gives me stability in my current circumstances.

AARRRRGH

kippy wrote: »

Happiness is a state of mind, if that state of mind is influenced by material goods wholely then you need to review your lifestyle.
Happiness for me is health. Not owning a house. Owning a house gives me stability in my current circumstances.

Some people are only happy if others are miserable though. Too many of these people in Ireland. I guess they can only feel good about themselves when finding flaws with others.

Benedict

The person who set up this blog should take note. People who paid too much for their property are actually glad that they did so. If you see someone bouncing along, greeting everyone with a smile, now you know why! It's because they paid 600k 4 years ago and the same houses down the road are now selling for 300k. If they look really really happy, it's probably because they bought a car too for double its value. Now we know the secret of happiness for the Irish people!

danbohan

Benedict wrote: »

The person who set up this blog should take note. People who paid too much for their property are actually glad that they did so. If you see someone bouncing along, greeting everyone with a smile, now you know why! It's because they paid 600k 4 years ago and the same houses down the road are now selling for 300k. If they look really really happy, it's probably because they bought a car too for double its value. Now we know the secret of happiness for the Irish people!

i really think you must be a great grandchild of peig sayers ?, so what if they own 600k on a house worth 300k , if they can pay mortgage and are healthy and happy so be it , what do you want a day of national mourning , the entire population to go to lough derg to repent and pray for deliverence from negative equity . if you can only justify your own smugness and good luck of not been in that postion by seen your neighbours weeping and eating grass then you are the one with the real negative equity !

engrish?

Benedict wrote: »

The person who set up this blog should take note. People who paid too much for their property are actually glad that they did so. If you see someone bouncing along, greeting everyone with a smile, now you know why! It's because they paid 600k 4 years ago and the same houses down the road are now selling for 300k. If they look really really happy, it's probably because they bought a car too for double its value. Now we know the secret of happiness for the Irish people!

Wow, you must get stressed a lot!

I would be one of the people that you mentioned above, you forgot to mention the business loans though. Do I stress about it? No. I just work hard and pay my debts. It is what it is. If you place too much emphasis on your loans and the stresses that go with them then you will live a short, empty life.

The_Morrigan

Benedict wrote: »

The person who set up this blog should take note. People who paid too much for their property are actually glad that they did so. If you see someone bouncing along, greeting everyone with a smile, now you know why! It's because they paid 600k 4 years ago and the same houses down the road are now selling for 300k. If they look really really happy, it's probably because they bought a car too for double its value. Now we know the secret of happiness for the Irish people!

All I keep thinking is "Victor Meldrew"

Benedict seriously this crusade of warnings obviously is falling on deaf ears here, as this thread is about those who regret buying (ie no potential FTB's) - it would seem that the majority of those who interacted aren't about to go flinging themselves off the nearest cliff..they are either content with their lot (bad or otherwise) or they escaped almost unscathed.

D3PO

NiMhaoldearg wrote: »

All I keep thinking is "Victor Meldrew"

Benedict seriously this crusade of warnings obviously is falling on deaf ears here, as this thread is about those who regret buying (ie no potential FTB's) - it would seem that the majority of those who interacted aren't about to go flinging themselves off the nearest cliff..they are either content with their lot (bad or otherwise) or they escaped almost unscathed.

here here. This thread has nothing to do with potential FTB's but Benedict is trying to mask his smugness in this thread by saying hes "warning" people.

its totally irrelevent to this thread. This is about people that have already bought so lets stick on topic

Theboinkmaster

kippy wrote: »

In hindsight, no its a not a great decision. However if that person has bought a house that suits them and which they dont intend to sell for a long time I dont see how you can hammer them for it.

Lots of people want to own their own homes and see life passing them by if they don't, just like some people like to own a BMW or a Porsche. Do you hammer those people for wanting something in life?

Ultimately people make these decisions through out their lives, sometimes they work for you, other times they don't.

I was responding to the particular point:

I think buying a house to live in is a good decision and waiting years while life passes you by is the wrong decision.

which i believe is an absolute ridiculous statement to make. In some circumstances it does make sense yes, but in a falling market such as our current one, it is prudent to hold off IMO - you could literally save a few hundred thousand Euro, which some people here think isn't that much :eek:

And to suggest that life passes you by just because you don't own is just ignorant, and the reason why so many people are €100k+ in negative equity in ****box apartments.

kippy

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I was responding to the particular point:

I think buying a house to live in is a good decision and waiting years while life passes you by is the wrong decision.

which i believe is an absolute ridiculous statement to make. In some circumstances it does make sense yes, but in a falling market such as our current one, it is prudent to hold off IMO - you could literally save a few hundred thousand Euro, which some people here think isn't that much :eek:

And to suggest that life passes you by just because you don't own is just ignorant, and the reason why so many people are €100k+ in negative equity in ****box apartments.

In our current market the statement makes little sense alright, I'd be in agreement with you there. Sorry about that I had the context wrong.
However in the previous market conditions and in some conditions even now it is really a personal life choice whether you bought or not, even with prices lowering as they are. Obviously very dependent on ones circumstances.

I think the statement of life passing you by could be taken up another way. Its always a massive decision when and whether to buy something like a house. You'll always find a way to talk yourself out of it but may end up regretting it at a later point, or vice versa as this thread title suggests.

AntiVirus

facksake wrote: »

Benedict you sound like the most unhappy person in this thread

I was just reading through this thread out of interest to see what people were saying and this does seem to be the case.

Moonbeam

Bought in 05 too and although that house doesn't suit my current needs I have never regretted it.
I love having my own place and would hate to be renting.

mprop

Moonbeam wrote: »

Bought in 05 too and although that house doesn't suit my current needs I have never regretted it.
I love having my own place and would hate to be renting.

Ditto - although I had to move recently and I just rented mine out and rented in the area that I wanted. Owning is not a burden, its just a reality.

A house (much like a puppy!) is not just for Christmas, its for life. Or at least a good part of your life!

Mike

The_Conductor

mprop wrote: »

Ditto - although I had to move recently and I just rented mine out and rented in the area that I wanted. Owning is not a burden, its just a reality.

A house (much like a puppy!) is not just for Christmas, its for life. Or at least a good part of your life!

Mike

While I appreciate what you're saying- the situation is changing. Once mortgage interest relief is abolished, and property taxes come in- owning property may very well be a burden.

Ireland is very unusual in both our insistence on owning property- but also in our absence of property related taxes. Things are going to change- and not necessarily for the better.

iguana

Moonbeam wrote: »

Bought in 05 too and although that house doesn't suit my current needs I have never regretted it.
I love having my own place and would hate to be renting.

I'm sorry but how is owning and living in a property that does not suit your needs better than renting a property that does?

kippy

smccarrick wrote: »

While I appreciate what you're saying- the situation is changing. Once mortgage interest relief is abolished, and property taxes come in- owning property may very well be a burden.

Ireland is very unusual in both our insistence on owning property- but also in our absence of property related taxes. Things are going to change- and not necessarily for the better.

Owning property is always a burden, those that say it isnt are liars.
How much of a burdan however is almost totally dependent on your circumstances and "repair/upgrade" cycles.
If you've no mortgage owning a property is still a burden, how much of one is your call. You still have insurance/rates/ maintainence costs etc.

I appreciate the fact that property tax is around the corner, however thats gonna push rents up as well. I cant see landlords take the hit for property tax and not try push rents up. Whether they can or not is a different matter.
I think property tax and the abolishment of tax breaks for buying homes are required, however they will be seen as unfair by a large number of people.

iguana

kippy wrote: »

I appreciate the fact that property tax is around the corner, however thats gonna push rents up as well. I cant see landlords take the hit for property tax and not try push rents up. Whether they can or not is a different matter.

It's not a different matter. In general rents are falling because in most places there is an oversupply of property. If a landlord decides to up the rent in order to cover the property tax most people will move. Then the landlord stands a good chance of having an empty property for at least a short period of time and maybe having to lower the rent to get a new tenant. Especially if rental allowance is reduced or removed. Some might be lucky and have a tenant who will like the property enough to stay and pay more, but trying to pass on this cost is far more likely to cause further loss of income.

kippy

iguana wrote: »

It's not a different matter. In general rents are falling because in most places there is an oversupply of property. If a landlord decides to up the rent in order to cover the property tax most people will move. Then the landlord stands a good chance of having an empty property for at least a short period of time and maybe having to lower the rent to get a new tenant. Especially if rental allowance is reduced or removed. Some might be lucky and have a tenant who will like the property enough to stay and pay more, but trying to pass on this cost is far more likely to cause further loss of income.

I am fully aware of the ins and outs of rents and the current rental market however as I said, I believe that landlords in general will try to push this burden onto the tenants. Whether they all get away with it or not is a different matter. IE - Some will, some wont.

Theboinkmaster

Moonbeam wrote: »

Bought in 05 too and although that house doesn't suit my current needs I have never regretted it.
I love having my own place and would hate to be renting.

That post doesn't really make sense. You bought at nearly the peak of the market for a place that doesn't suit your needs.

Why don't you regret that exactly? Seems to me like you should.

Moonbeam

I bought a bit before the peak so was lucky that way,prices were high but not as crazy as they got.
Nope,I lived there happily for nearly 5 years before we bought a bigger place that was more suited to kids.

Peoples needs change,what you need in your early 20s in not always going to be the same as what you need in your late 20s.

The_Conductor

Moonbeam wrote: »

I bought a bit before the peak so was lucky that way,prices were high but not as crazy as they got.
Nope,I lived there happily for nearly 5 years before we bought a bigger place that was more suited to kids.

I wish we'd gotten our arses into gear and moved somewhere child friendly a long time ago!

The biggest problem of all from the housing boom, in my opinion- is the tens of thousands of folk who bought totally unsuitable accommodation- solely 'to get on the property ladder' with the intention of trading up to more suitable accommodation at some future point in time. Those people are well and truly screwed now. Well done to anyone who managed to move before all hell broke loose- its going to be very hard for folk to do so in the future.

S.

AARRRRGH

smccarrick wrote: »

I wish we'd gotten our arses into gear and moved somewhere child friendly a long time ago!

The biggest problem of all from the housing boom, in my opinion- is the tens of thousands of folk who bought totally unsuitable accommodation- solely 'to get on the property ladder' with the intention of trading up to more suitable accommodation at some future point in time. Those people are well and truly screwed now. Well done to anyone who managed to move before all hell broke loose- its going to be very hard for folk to do so in the future.

S.

I think the biggest problem was that everybody thought they had the right to buy property. And were allowed to borrow enough to buy it. Forcing them to lower the size of what they could buy as prices went up even more. The average salary has never, until the last few years bought the average house. And that was only because of lax lending rules.

Nothing has changed in that respect though. You hear people saying "when the average house can be bought on the average salary then prices will have stabilized."

We're going back to the days when the average salary will not buy the average house. People dont understand that not everyone can own property.
Its just the way it is. They will just have to rent.

So even when prices go down further, the average salary will probably go down too. If we start being able to buy houses on the average salary again, we are headed into the abyss - again.

JJJJNR

smccarrick wrote: »

While I appreciate what you're saying- the situation is changing. Once mortgage interest relief is abolished, and property taxes come in- owning property may very well be a burden.

Ireland is very unusual in both our insistence on owning property- but also in our absence of property related taxes. Things are going to change- and not necessarily for the better.

Thats going to effect everyone either renting or owning a property, it will be the tennets/owner who pays the tax.

SamG

Thats going to effect everyone either renting or owning a property, it will be the tennets/owner who pays the tax

With over 300,000 vacant properties (at least), a falling population and decreasing rental yields, anyone who thinks that landlords will be able to pass on any future property tax to tenants (much as they would like to) is deluded and will find out to their cost.

Remember, one month vacancy will probably equal one years property tax.

lily09

Just to return to the ops question..
I am one of those that recently purchased, moved in two months ago.
Have no regrets, even though I was questioned and criticised for buying at the moment. i rented for 12 years before buying and endured a couple of despicable landlords in that time. Am now living in a place that I could never have afforded previously 10 minutes from work/family. The house cost 2.4 times our combined (Permanent) salaries and we will be able to afford the mortgage.Yes I fully accept that there may be more to drop.
I really dont understand this attitude that buying is madness when you can rent, admittadly I know nothing about yields,interest rates over life of mortgage etc etc however from experience renting has its place but there is nothing like the feeling of closing your front door (that you have painted purple because you just can...)

ps stupid question but how can prices drop by another 50% people who bought in the last 8 years could not afford to sell for that amount and would owe the banks huge amounts

The_Conductor

lily09 wrote: »

ps stupid question but how can prices drop by another 50% people who bought in the last 8 years could not afford to sell for that amount and would owe the banks huge amounts

Prices could potentially drop another 50% certainly. At the end of the day- prices are determined by supply and demand. If we have 268k vacant properties nationwide, and a population that has started to fall again, as Irish and non-nationals emigrate seeking work elsewhere (lots of our unemployed construction workers are doing quite well in London- as are many tens of thousands of Polish tradespeople who were gainfully employed here during the boom).

Ultimately- there are many properties nationwide that have zero or even negative value- it would cost more to complete them than they would be worth.

At the end of the day- everything is worth what its purchaser is willing to pay for it. If a property is in a good location- its location alone will give it an inherent value. If there is a management company involved- this will probably reduce a possible price by 15-20%. If the property is in an incomplete estate in the backend of Cavan- it would probably be better off being knocked down........

carmel27

NiMhaoldearg wrote: »

I'll Bite.

I don't regret it.
- I bought Summer 2008 -
- I'm not in negative equity -
- I love my apartment -

Yes, there are months when things are tight, but I'm not starving and I'm not in (bad) debt.
And if I had to do it all over again - I would
Not everyone is moaning about the state of the property market in Ireland - some people are quite happy with their lot, they just are the minority.

Are you me by any chance?!!!!!:D
Im in the exact same position. Bought an apartment in 2008. Im working, Im making my repayments and Im not starving.
I budget so I can still enjoy my nights out, an annual holiday and to buy clothes etc now and again.
I have no other debts, apaart from a car loan which I'll have paid off this month.
I know the apartment that I bought would be bought for less now, but the time was right for me, so I've no regrets.
I have my own home and I love it.:)

Calina

AARRRRGH wrote: »

I think the biggest problem was that everybody thought they had the right to buy property. And were allowed to borrow enough to buy it. Forcing them to lower the size of what they could buy as prices went up even more. The average salary has never, until the last few years bought the average house. And that was only because of lax lending rules.

The lax lending rules fed into the property bubble. The issue has not been the average salary buying the average house. It is that the average house has commanded a premium price. Given that the invention of shoebox apartments has caused the average property profile to change, the impact is greater again. Ultimately there are people who paid 500KE for two bedroomed apartments. They weren't on average salaries, they were on hig salaries. And what they could buy for that money was disproportionately less.

Everybody has the right to aspire to buying property. People have different opportunities. However, the property market in Ireland screwed courtesy of the lending practices. The vision you sell here isn't accurate either.

AARRRRGH wrote: »

Nothing has changed in that respect though. You hear people saying "when the average house can be bought on the average salary then prices will have stabilized."

Prices will have stabilised when they start to track inflation. It is very difficult to call on where that might be because Ireland has absolutely insane supply conditions at the moment.

AARRRRGH wrote: »

We're going back to the days when the average salary will not buy the average house. People dont understand that not everyone can own property.
Its just the way it is. They will just have to rent.

Unlike you, I don't see this as fixed in stone. I believe everyone should be able to buy, particularly in a culture where tenancy is as badly regulated as it is here. It is something you can force to change. What people don't understand is that people who were willing to borrow the sums they did contributed to the problems faced by a generation now.

AARRRRGH wrote: »

So even when prices go down further, the average salary will probably go down too. If we start being able to buy houses on the average salary again, we are headed into the abyss - again.

I disagree. If we maintain a reasonable bank lending policy, then we'll avoid the abyss. As a returning emigrant, one of the features of Irish society that shocked me was that people saw property as a cash cow. Easy money. It doesn't work like that. All that attitude has to go; there is no such thing as a free lunch ultimately.

______________________

I feel the OP's question is badly framed. Very few people will ever admit to regret overtly. If you want a true answer to that question, you need to frame it in a way that they can answer honestly without feelign that they may have lost face.

I would ask

"With the benefit of hindsight, would you do it again?"

for some people, who traded at the right time, it worked out. For others it did not and the key reason for that is that property was basically a casino for 8-10 years.

A lot of people didn't have the liberty of trading at the right time. They will almost certainly struggle on as far as possible, with thin months but many of them in my view will never admit to regrets. But I know a few who given a second chance wouldn't do it again.

johnnyskeleton

SamG wrote: »

I'll start - Having lived in France and having a French wife, we moved back here to Malahide, Co. Dubline, 6 years ago. Wife was always reluctant to buy (coming from a renting culture) and she thought the quality of Irish houses was pathetic. But me... being Irish (and not as bright as her) decided, NO, we need to stake our claim on this Celtic Tiger thingy and buy. So we saw a place we liked and decided to make an offer. A broker came around and we decided to go for an €800,000 mortgage (hey, it's Malahide and this was '07). But we never got our act together to actually fill in the forms and by the time we came around to doing it the market was well and truly crashing. I thank my stars every day but somewhere, in a parallel universe... there's another me who took that mortgage. And that guy is well and truly screwed. Meanwhile, in this one, I was saved from some very serious stress (possibly ruin) by a combination of continental savvy (very different from the Irish savvy, as practiced by Liz Kane and her ilk) and sheer luck. Cheers.

Ah, French wives and laziness - the prefect combination.