Germany v England, Sunday 3pm

ctrl-alt-delete

Posted this in the England match thread, hadn't seen this one....

The way some people are talking you would think Germany were setting the World Cup alight. They have slightly edged England so far.

Yes they had a great game against Australia - but lets be honest, it was a defensive Australia team who went out basically happy to try keep the score down. They lost to Serbia, so what if they were a man down - they had plenty of chances to score and couldn't. I didn't see all the Ghana match today, only the 1st half. 1-0 wouldn't inspire me and Ghana caused them trouble in the first half.

Regardless of how crap anyone thinks England have been, this game is not going to be a walkover for the Germans. I actually fancy England to do them.

mike65

I can't decide if the fact Rooney hasn't scored is bad or not, on the one hand its frustrating for him, esp as he was clearly more into the game today but on the other if he finds his shooting boots early on Sunday he could just move up a gear and really shine when it matters.

Fratton Fred

Two fairly evenly matched teams to be honest. If both play well it will be a good game.

I don't see how anyone can call it.

namloc1980

Germany will have more possession than England and have players who are better at using the ball such as Ozil/Schweinsteiger etc, but England might be able to catch them on the break. Personally I'd prefer Germany to win because they play much better football but it will be close.

aidan24326

Gang of Gin wrote: »

If England continue with Barry they will be found out - he was a disaster today.

+1

Barry was poor today I thought, gave the ball away far too much, and he almost cost England dearly at the end. Michael Carrick could hardly do any worse? I just don't get why Capello is such a fan of Barry, I think he's one of the most overrated players around. 100K per wk? You're having a laugh.

Sunday's game will be tight, every chance it could go all the way to penalties again.

pokerface_me

Fiskar wrote: »

Clashes with a rather large GAA match between Dubby land and the Royals, going to be a choosey afternoon but will watch the beautiful game

Same here i'm going to watch the beautiful game too, Dublin to win by 5 points.


Only joking looking forward to this game, first game i really can say can't wait for this one. I think England will notch it up a gear or 2 and yer man Rooney looks like he is going to explode and if he does well have a nice flight back to Berlin lads.

England 2-0 Rooney with a brace.

Boskowski

I couldn't call this one. Very interesting.

In this competition Germany have started great and have had gradually lesser performances with every game as the group stage went on while having had gradually stronger opposition. They probably flattered to deceive in the first game and reality has them back now but they got out of the group as winners nonetheless.
Today I found them not very convincing. Some players went missing and all of the vigor from game one seemed gone. Overall they held themselves together and found a bit of class to make it happen, but Ghana was never out of this at any stage.

I don't like this stuff of calling someone a possible world cup winner or not at this early stage (attention - dig: something the English seem to be obsessed with) but if I had to make that call then I'd say "probably not".

On the bigger scale Germany are near the end of a major transition period and have now found a squad that is going to be at the start of their 'era' if you like. Meaning a lot of the guys are now early to mid-twenties and they probably will be building the core of the team for the next 2 world cups after this. You'd expect them to be strong enough and already have the so-called German qualities like organized,comfortable on the ball blablabla but the team has to develop still and will probably peak at the next world cup or even later. They have quite some young talent yes, but not to an extent that one would expect a world cup from them right now. (Although you never know. You don't have to be an uber-team to win this, the right performance at the right time, a good draw, a bit of luck, anyway)

England has started weak against what was admittedly their strongest opponent in the group, has gotten weaker against Algeria and has salvaged their campaign with a half decent halftime against a Slovenian side that was pretty bad on the day. Second halftime the fear factor was pretty much back I thought and they seemed content to keep it away from their box against a side that could hardly string 4 passes together. Some may say that's overly critical on England but when one gets this much (self)promotion you gotta live up to the higher standards that you called upon yourself.

On the bigger scale England now need that transition that Germany is after going through. A lot of the guys are hanging around for what is now their 3rd world cup and have yet to prove that they can function in a tournament winning side. The backbone of this team (Terry, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard) is unlikely to be around in 2014 and this is really their last chance to shine on the biggest stage while at their individual peak (or even at all). Realistically one would say they have had their chances and if they were world cup winning material we would know by now.
(Although you never know. You don't have to be an uber-team to win this, the right performance at the right time, a good draw, a bit of luck, anyway)

So the outset couldn't be much more different than this.

Germany looked a bit tired today and so did England and the match will be in Bloemfontain which is at 4500 feet above sealevel. So I don't expect sparkling power football over 90 minutes but rather control and passing which should give us an edge. Also being the younger team is a probably a good thing when the going gets tough with thin air and temperatures and such.
Both teams will be a little edgy and under pressure since this is a big game for both what with the game itself and also with the history of being great football rivals. No advantage to either side.
England have many players with a lot European club level matches and international matches on their back. Experience is certainly with England.

So my conclusion is. I haven't a clue who is going to win it, history, current form and gut feeling and also hope says we will but I'm not willing to put money on it. A very interesting tie.

DB10

All I know is for the 4th game in a row England's superstars will be shown up.

Maybe then some people will sit back and realise their hereos are not all their cracked up to be.

Fratton Fred

DB10 wrote: »

All I know is for the 4th game in a row England's superstars will be shown up.

Maybe then some people will sit back and realise their hereos are not all their cracked up to be.

Boskowski did a great post there, a good well balanced appraisal of the game.

Then you followed it up with this ****.

Yakult

I can see some red cards in this game too. No goals and down to penalties. England win.

or germany implode our brains with quality soccer and beat England by 2 goals.

With this WC and hows its gone so far. I doubt neither of em lol

DB10

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Boskowski did a great post there, a good well balanced appraisal of the game.

Then you followed it up with this ****.

Looks like Freddy the Frog is cracking up already.
Can't handle the truth son?

Pompey's relegation hit you hard?

Wife left you?

All downhill for you and your insult ridden posts from now on.

Fratton Fred

DB10 wrote: »

Looks like Freddy the Frog is cracking up already.
Can't handle the truth son?

Pompey's relegation hit you hard?

Wife left you?

All downhill for you and your insult ridden posts from now on.

Keep going mate, your posts have gone from idiotic, to pathetic and have now actually started to become almost amusing.

Tech3

Lets be realistic, this game will be either won by 1 goal or will be decided in extra time/penatly shootout. Maybe a penaly in 90 mins will win the game.

Fratton Fred

tech2 wrote: »

Lets be realistic, this game will be either won by 1 goal or will be decided in extra time/penatly shootout. Maybe a penaly in 90 mins will win the game.

I think that could be the case in half of the next round games.

Cypher_sounds

tech2 wrote: »

Lets be realistic, this game will be either won by 1 goal or will be decided in extra time/penatly shootout. Maybe a penaly in 90 mins will win the game.

Or a stupid sending off could be the difference or someone could play out of their skin i.e Rooney and grab a hat-trick the possibilities are endless tbh as in football anything can happen thats a big reason why its so interesting to watch

eagle eye

Very interesting game given the formations both teams have used so far. England are strong through the centre if they set up right but having been using the flanks where the Germans are very strong.

Both teams are very susceptible to the counter attack.

Germany have a playmaker in Ozil who has really impressed and I don't think I'd trust Barry to take care of him one on one.

Imo the best chance to beat the Germans would be to use a similar setup to Brazil with two holding mids. This would mean bringing in Carrick though and I don't see that happening.

---

James
Johnson

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Terry

---

Upson

---

Cole

---

Carrick

---

Barry
Milner

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Lampard

---

Gerrard

---

Rooney

I think its more likely that Capello sticks with his system and possibly the exact same lineup although I'd rather Heskey in there and plenty of high balls as that German keeper look awfully dodgy tonight.

Boskowski

eagle eye wrote: »

that German keeper look awfully dodgy tonight.

Did he? Didn't register with me. I saw him not getting to a corner with his fists properly once, he sort of spilled it over the back of his hands to the far post. He wasn't oozing Kahnesque authorjity ok but I wouldn't call it awfully dodgy though. I like him. Very good feet for a goalie not every backpass is being just hoofed out. Very good throws. He didn't spill one shot on goal. He will get better he's just not used to that stage. Only handful of caps.

eagle eye

Boskowski wrote: »

Did he? Didn't register with me. I saw him not getting to a corner with his fists properly once, he sort of spilled it over the back of his hands to the far post. He wasn't oozing Kahnesque authorjity ok but I wouldn't call it awfully dodgy though. I like him. Very good feet for a goalie not every backpass is being just hoofed out. Very good throws. He didn't spill one shot on goal. He will get better he's just not used to that stage. Only handful of caps.

He got caught out of position a few times, he didn't deal well with the corners at all.

Here is a pic to remind you of one time, its the time Lahm cleared it off the line. Look where the keeper is.

Mezcita

Morzadec wrote: »

Germany 7/4 in 90 minutes... Seems very attractive to me

Germany 2.0 to qualify with Ladbrokes.

That'll do pig. That'll do.

Pro. F

I get the impression that a lot of people weren't that impressed with the German performance against the Black Stars today. Two things though:

Ghana have shown themselves to be a tidy and well organised team. They were no easy opposition imo.

More importantly, the game was at high altitude. 1,753 metres above sea level. I was wondering if that altitude is actually sufficient to be a factor, and according to this website it is.

So, today the Germans beat a handy team at altitude and played some nice football doing it. An impressive showing to finish their group I'd say.

If they aren't missing any major players due to injury (Sweinsteiger must be a worry) I see them winning comfortably on Sunday.

Pro. F

eagle eye wrote: »

He got caught out of position a few times, he didn't deal well with the corners at all.

Here is a pic to remind you of one time, its the time Lahm cleared it off the line. Look where the keeper is.

IMG

Yup he was definitely having some trouble with the ball in the air. Centre backs have some flaws too. I don't think England will be able to take advantage though.

x in the city

the world cup is (mostly) f***ed for bets and everything is going arse ways, for that reason and considering England have been largely muck, I am backing them to get thru.

wtf, just looked at the odds ( to qualify for that last 8)

lolz, England 1.8

Germany 1.9

am I missing something here...

anna.fun

Looking forward to this match sooooo much...
first clash with England in a major tournament for me I can actually see us winning.

We already thought it would be England in the next round when the US boys scored the winning goal in the last minute. Somehow knew Ghana wasn't going to beat us.. anyway... emptied a few bottles of beer yesterday and were kept awake by these Vuvuzelas and car horns until about 1am...

Even though I hate Löw for the way he treated some of the players, I know want the team to beat England. (But still I'm more looking forward to the start of the Bundesliga)


My boyf just send me this:

"This World Cup is like World War II; the French surrendered early, the Yanks arrive last minute and we're left to battle the Germans."

it's apt, isn't it?

Livvie

England frequently manage to put in a brilliant performance after rubbish ones, especially against the more successful teams, so anything can happen. Whether it will or not is a different thing tho...Germany, Argentina, Spain and Brazil. It would be a miracle if they got past even two of those.

Mister men

tech2 wrote: »

Lets be realistic, this game will be either won by 1 goal or will be decided in extra time/penatly shootout. Maybe a penaly in 90 mins will win the game.

England will do well to get to penalties. You have watched the way they have player thusfar?

Ping Chow Chi

ha, it is always the Germans. Well I have only seen their first match and they played a lot better than England have in thier three matches so far .... but it's a cup game and anything can happen

I suspect though it will go to penalties as it always does though ... at that point I'll switch off the TV and go and slap my walkman on full blast I think

Oh I have Germany in the work sweep, so its not all bad! ;p

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Mitch Connor

I think England have the players and the potential to beat Germany (they did beat them recently enough) but I just don't think they are playing well enough to actually go and do it on Sunday. Germany are a better team in that they actually play as a team and play in a way which suits the players available. Neither of which England do imo. Can see it being 2-0 to Germany.

The Muppet

England have a good cahnce of going through, I wasn't impressed with Germanys defence last night. Rooney needs to get his head in gear and up his performance, If he delivers I think england will go through.

MagicMarker

5 - 1 England

1-1, go to penos and England will lose.

mike65

MagicMarker wrote: »

5 - 1 England

Owen is "retired"!

Hoki

Has Beckenbauer even commented on Germany in this World Cup ? He seems more interested in Englands progress . If i was Capello id have this article & Beckenbauers' "kick & rush" article pasted to the dressing room wall on Sunday .

Germany legend Franz Beckenbauer has claimed England have been "stupid" to set up a World Cup last-16 clash with Germany.

And Beckenbauer, a World Cup winner as a coach and a player, believes the England players are "burnt out" following a gruelling Premier League season.

England's failure to win Group C means they will meet Group D winners Germany in the first knockout phase match in Bloemfontein on Sunday afternoon, and Beckenbauer would rather have seen the two sides go head to head later in the competition.

"A game like this should be a semi-final, not a last-16 game," said Beckenbauer in Germany's Bild newspaper.

"Stupidly, the English have slipped up a little by finishing second in their group."

However, Beckenbauer believes Germany are fresher than Fabio Capello's side and that this will work in their favour on Sunday.

"The English look a little tired," he said.

"There is a good reason for that: the Premier League players have got to play far more games than their Bundesliga colleagues, including two national cup competitions.

"Therefore, when it comes to a World Cup or a European Championships, they are burnt out.

"Our players, on the other hand, seem to be in a physically better condition.

"Of course we respect them, but we certainly don't fear them.

"England's first two appearances at the World Cup were paltry, but they improved against Slovenia."

Beckenbauer admitted it will not be an easy game for Germany, since he expects England to be particularly motivated, not only due to the age-old rivalry between the two nations.

"What makes them dangerous is that their key players Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard and John Terry sense that this could be the last chance in their career to win a World Cup," he added.

"And after all, England have been waiting since 1966 for a title.

"Fabio Capello appears to have brought discipline to the troops. After they failed to qualify for Euro 2008, England hit rock bottom.

"Capello has brought in a new structure."

The stage is set for "another fantastic football battle" which Beckenbauer says is guaranteed when the two teams lock horns.

"England against Germany - they were always the biggest, most unforgettable games in our history," said Beckenbauer.

"Football fans can only look forward to this classic."

karma_

Honestly, England have been poor in this tournament, woefully so and on the quality of football displayed so far deserve to go out of the competition.

Germany on the other hand have been excellent, exciting and entertaining to watch. Even the game against Serbia where they lost I thought they played really well for having a man harshly sent off and were unlucky not to at least raw.

Germany to win comfortably.

RichTea

Hoki wrote: »

Has Beckenbauer even commented on Germany in this World Cup ? He seems more interested in Englands progress . If i was Capello id have this article & Beckenbauers' "kick & rush" article pasted to the dressing room wall on Sunday .

Firstly he's right. And secondly, just because the British press doesn't pick up on his comments on Germany (Of which there have been many), doesn't mean that he hasn't made them.

He was asked a few questions about England AND other teams' progress. Once again the tabloids put a nice spin on things.

Boskowski

That's the way it is these days. Nothing in the papers or in the tabloidy media in general can be taken at face value. I'm not surprised politicians cannot utter a single word without having media consultants.

Beckenbauer is certainly one of our all time greats but he says such stuff in his column in the 'BILD' which is roughly the German equivalent of 'the Sun'. So between himself addressing that particular audience and then 'the Sun' taking their extract from that to address their particular audience one can imagine I'm quite surprised we haven't mentioned the war yet.

mike65

Oi Franz, Kaiser!

LordSutch

England will either spark into life & give the supporters the spectacular we've all been waiting for, or they will just dither their way out of this World Cup 'yet again' to the Germans.

I really hope its the former, C'mon England.

RichTea

Hoki wrote: »

Has Beckenbauer even commented on Germany in this World Cup ? He seems more interested in Englands progress . If i was Capello id have this article & Beckenbauers' "kick & rush" article pasted to the dressing room wall on Sunday .

In fact Rafael Hönigstein, respected journalist, has said that Beckebauer was misquouted.

"Dummerweise haben die Engländer ein bissel gepatzt" = Unfortunately, England messed up a little ... Said with warmth

aidan24326

Pro. F wrote: »

Ghana have shown themselves to be a tidy and well organised team. They were no easy opposition imo

Ghana have certainly shown themselves to be pretty useful, and to think they're missing Essien aswell. I don't think this German team are getting the credit they deserve for topping what was a difficult group.

The Muppet wrote: »

Rooney needs to get his head in gear and up his performance, If he delivers I think england will go through.

There's too much emphasis on Rooney at this stage. He's had 3 games now to find his form and still hasn't done it. He was poor in the first game, hopeless in the second, and only marginally better in the third.

There seems to be this consensus that Rooney will suddenly burst into form at any minute, but you can't just turn it on like a tap. There was very little sign even in yesterday's game that Rooney is anywhere near right. The problem with Rooney is that when he's on form he's exuberant, and plays with a smile, but when things are going against him he gets frustrated and petulant, he doesn't have the patience or the guile that world-class players usually have.

Rooney still plays like the kid in the playground who sulks when he's not getting enough of the ball. Think back to a couple of seasons ago when he went through a bad run of form at United. It was just the same, with Rooney going through whole games without barely getting a kick of the ball, the same frustrated body language. Unfortunately for England, I think Rooney already shot his load in a fantastic season with United.

karma_

aidan24326 wrote: »

Ghana have certainly shown themselves to be pretty useful, and to think they're missing Essien aswell. I don't think this German team are getting the credit they deserve for topping what was a difficult group.




There's too much emphasis on Rooney at this stage. He's had 3 games now to find his form and still hasn't done it. He was poor in the first game, hopeless in the second, and only marginally better in the third.

There seems to be this consensus that Rooney will suddenly burst into form at any minute, but you can't just turn it on like a tap. There was very little sign even in yesterday's game that Rooney is anywhere near right. The problem with Rooney is that when he's on form he's exuberant, and plays with a smile, but when things are going against him he gets frustrated and petulant, he doesn't have the patience or the guile that world-class players usually have.

Rooney still plays like the kid in the playground who sulks when he's not getting enough of the ball. Think back to a couple of seasons ago when he went through a bad run of form at United. It was just the same, with Rooney going through whole games without barely getting a kick of the ball, the same frustrated body language. Unfortunately for England, I think Rooney already shot his load in a fantastic season with United.

Agreed, was pretty laughable when Rooney was lofted up the 'Greatest' bracket along with the likes of Messi in the run up to the WC. There is only one player in that bracket and it's Messi himself.

Fanny Cradock

karma_ wrote: »

Agreed, was pretty laughable when Rooney was lofted up the 'Greatest' bracket along with the likes of Messi in the run up to the WC. There is only one player in that bracket and it's Messi himself.

In fairness to Rooney his form prior to injury was sensational. The form of players waxes and wanes (boom boom) for any number of reasons - Messi included.

Warper

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

In fairness to Rooney his form prior to injury was sensational. The form of players waxes and wanes (boom boom) for any number of reasons - Messi included.

To even compare Rooney to Messi is an insult to Messi. Rooney is not fit to tie Messi's boots. Lay England @ 2.83 with everything. They are all hype and anyone with half a brain can see this.

Dublin_Gunner

It has to be Defoe & Crouch to start.

There can be no-one else picked based on current form. Rooney obviously has something wrong, whether its injury related, or psychological, god knows, but he has to be dropped, he's be woeful.

I think with Defoe and Crouch, they will cause the Germans all sorts of problems, especially if they keep the rest of the team the same as the Slovenia game.

MagicMarker

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

It has to be Defoe & Crouch to start.

There can be no-one else picked based on current form. Rooney obviously has something wrong, whether its injury related, or psychological, god knows, but he has to be dropped, he's be woeful.

I think with Defoe and Crouch, they will cause the Germans all sorts of problems, especially if they keep the rest of the team the same as the Slovenia game.

As soon as rooney came off yesterday England weren't the same, that's why he'll always start if he's fit.

Dublin_Gunner

MagicMarker wrote: »

As soon as rooney came off yesterday England weren't the same, that's why he'll always start if he's fit.

Thats merely because he was taken off, they were probably disappointed. That won't happen if he doesn't start.

He offered nothing in the 3 group games, apart form missing what you would expect were decent chances for him.

pickarooney

Boskowski wrote: »

England has started weak against what was admittedly their strongest opponent in the group, has gotten weaker against Algeria and has salvaged their campaign with a half decent halftime against a Slovenian side that was pretty bad on the day. Second halftime the fear factor was pretty much back

I think this is the only time I have ever seen you make a mistake in English - you really do write superbly well.

Pro. F

aidan24326 wrote: »

The problem with Rooney is that when he's on form he's exuberant, and plays with a smile, but when things are going against him he gets frustrated and petulant, he doesn't have the patience or the guile that world-class players usually have.

Rooney still plays like the kid in the playground who sulks when he's not getting enough of the ball. Think back to a couple of seasons ago when he went through a bad run of form at United. It was just the same, with Rooney going through whole games without barely getting a kick of the ball, the same frustrated body language. Unfortunately for England, I think Rooney already shot his load in a fantastic season with United.

You are being totally unfair on Rooney. You've completely discounted how he has matured over time. This season we have seen the emergence of the new, more level headed and balanced player. Yes, think back a few seasons ago and then compare how he handled frustration back then to how he handles it now - differently.

Also, he never really plays football with a smile on his face. Even when his team is winning and he's on a hat trick, he still plays like the world is against him and he hates the opposition. That's part of what makes him so good.

Boskowski

pickarooney wrote: »

I think this is the only time I have ever seen you make a mistake in English - you really do write superbly well.

If you're not just winding me up - thank you.
It's just 'half' is it? Rather than halftime?

Idbatterim

Germany have never lost a penalty shootout, and have missed only 2 penalties in their entire world cup history, England and Italy have lost the most shootouts at 3 a piece. The last time Germany failed to make the quarters was 1934! Whatever about thinking England may edge it, if it goes to penalties, I certainly dont. Its hard to predict this one, there will either be nothing in it or I can see the Germans beating them convincingly.