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Series 5, Episode 13 - " The Big Bang "

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    #32
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    ...I'm very confused. The rationale behind the universe exploding but kind of not didn't make any sense, although I did like the efforts to show some Time-traveller-version of internal consistency. Some cute touches, but it sort of got away from itself a bit.

    Also, did anyone else get a bit of a James Bond vibe from the end.

    Also also - I *heart* that the picture in the first post of this thread now features a Teletubby :D


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    #33
    nicowa
    Registered Users Posts: 700 ✭✭✭nicowa


    Coldzone wrote: »
    Now that was the way you end a series
    Fantastic!!!

    I was almost afraid that they were going to leave it to the next season or something...

    Matt was brilliant. The story of "the Boy who waited" was amazing and so tearjerkingly brilliant! And I'm so happy they filled in the blanks, the "non"-continuity error, what he said to her "when she was seven" though I'm still a little confused about that one. The popping back and forth in time - brilliantly done.

    Love the FEZ!

    -still going to watch the whole thing - Part 1 and 2 - all over again, just for fun... :D


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    #34
    Raedwald
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭Raedwald


    Feekin brilliant ending to the series :D...Can't believe have to wait six months to christmas :(:(

    Fair play to Moffet, to have what looks like is going to be one story arc essentially spread out between the three years that the cast have signed for will have taking some planning and if the next series continues in the same vein i will be one happy Who fan.


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    #35
    mach1982
    Registered Users Posts: 760 ✭✭✭mach1982


    A tiny bit disappointed, as it still left some questions, who was that said "Silence will fall" an why the Tardis blew up? At least we know we'll see River again and we'll find who she is, my bet is still she's a Time Lady , as she nearly as smart as the Doctor and understand what he is on about. Still can't wait fro the Christmas episode.


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    #36
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    A tiny bit disappointed, as it still left some questions, who was that said "Silence will fall" an why the Tardis blew up

    Christmas special, I think. The doctor did mention that at the end. That he didnt know...

    EDIT: or a 3 series arc as Raedwald said.


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    #37
    nicowa
    Registered Users Posts: 700 ✭✭✭nicowa


    Fysh wrote: »
    ...I'm very confused. The rationale behind the universe exploding but kind of not didn't make any sense, although I did like the efforts to show some Time-traveller-version of internal consistency. Some cute touches, but it sort of got away from itself a bit.

    I think the fact that it's a TARDIS exploding is why it was exploding in every corner of the universe.
    Pittens wrote: »
    The duckless duck pond was never answered.

    sucks.

    Sucks, but now we have a Rory Pond!


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    #38
    Also Starring LeVar Burton
    Registered Users Posts: 18,503 ✭✭✭✭Also Starring LeVar Burton


    Oh that was good... That was very good... Quite fantastic in fact... I'm failing to find a word to justify how good that actually was...
    When Amy came out of the Pandorica at the beginning it had me shouting "What the F*ck" repeatedly at the television throughout the theme tune...
    That is how a series finale should be done... Just brilliant...
    Brilliant performances by Matt, Karen, Arthur, Alex and of course little Caitlin... And Moffat has outdone himself - well done sir, well done...


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    #39
    Raedwald
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭Raedwald


    mach1982 wrote: »
    A tiny bit disappointed, as it still left some questions, who was that said "Silence will fall" an why the Tardis blew up? At least we know we'll see River again and we'll find who she is, my bet is still she's a Time Lady , as she nearly as smart as the Doctor and understand what he is on about. Still can't wait fro the Christmas episode.

    Yes lots still to be answered but as they are still trying to figure out why that date in time, who is the voice, who controlled the tardis etc they have the next series and possibly the one after that to flesh all that stuff out and reveal all.


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    #40
    qwertplaywert
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭qwertplaywert


    It didn't top last week, but that would be an impossible ask. Great way to end the season, although ending it after last weeks episode would have really been something..
    Still, far better than any of the RTD finales


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    #41
    mach1982
    Registered Users Posts: 760 ✭✭✭mach1982


    One other thing where you Amy disappear too ???


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    #42
    nicowa
    Registered Users Posts: 700 ✭✭✭nicowa


    qwertplaywert wrote: »
    It didn't top last week, but that would be an impossible ask.

    Sorry, completly disagree. Best episode ever! Not just cos of the plot line - which was pretty amazing - it was the fact that - apart from maybe how Young!Amy's drink disappeared and that, obviously, the Doctor would survive - I wasn't able to second guess for a second, what was going to happen.

    Possibly, partly due to the fact that it was so fast-paced.


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    #43
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    nicowa wrote: »
    I think the fact that it's a TARDIS exploding is why it was exploding in every corner of the universe.

    Yeah, but the thing is - that would mean that the safety of the TARDIS is an absolute priority for the safety of the entire universe. Which, given that we've already had the Alliance turning up to do a really half-assed job of imprisoning the Doctor, should mean that every race with similar technology should be gathering together to either stop it being invented or get seriously narky with anyone trying to use one.

    I mean, yes, I sort of see the individual plot items - but lining them up in order, they don't really make any sense. The cracks in the universe were spread throughout time by the TARDIS exploding - OK, that's basically the same gimmick as Bad Wolf, I can live with that. But the TARDIS exploding everywhere in space means that some bits of spacetime get eaten instantly, but not others, and definitely not those ones that contain a machine that can from within spacetime repair all of it. Not to mention that the rate at which spacetime gets eaten appears to be not so much random as selected to allow the protagonists to survive.

    It wasn't quite as bad as some of RTDs stuff, but the logic is a bit too close to that finale where the Master made everyone on Earth into a clone of him. Yes, fine, impressive visual for a cliffhanger, but, er, what?


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    #44
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    CaptainNegative wrote: »
    Oh that was good... That was very good... Quite fantastic in fact... I'm failing to find a word to justify how good that actually was...
    When Amy came out of the Pandorica at the beginning it had me shouting "What the F*ck" repeatedly at the television throughout the theme tune...
    That is how a series finale should be done... Just brilliant...
    Brilliant performances by Matt, Karen, Arthur, Alex and of course little Caitlin... And Moffat has outdone himself - well done sir, well done...

    BBC doing "Amys best bits" (Oooh Matron) on their website was very good. Really thought she was gone.

    Fez's are cool and "Hi, honey I'm home" was hilarious.

    I think any doubters about Matt can be silenced now. Really looked beyond his years.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #45
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    Fysh wrote: »

    I mean, yes, I sort of see the individual plot items - but lining them up in order, they don't really make any sense. The cracks in the universe were spread throughout time by the TARDIS exploding - OK, that's basically the same gimmick as Bad Wolf, I can live with that. But the TARDIS exploding everywhere in space means that some bits of spacetime get eaten instantly, but not others, and definitely not those ones that contain a machine that can from within spacetime repair all of it. Not to mention that the rate at which spacetime gets eaten appears to be not so much random as selected to allow the protagonists to survive.

    they were at the eye of the storm. The universe was exploding around the tardis which was close to the earth. it also exploded on the 26th June - tooay - but the effects were felt back in time. So it was exactly on the 26th June that the universe would have ended, and the explosion happened, so the Earth and the universe had to last that long ( otherwise it would have had it's own paradox) . The effect of the explosion near Earth was felt back in time throughout the ages - hence the lack of stars in human history, but the end of the universe and the date of the explosion was on the 26th June.

    that was fine. The Doctor coming from Amy thoughts was a bit RTD, but it has been signalled for ages.

    EDIT:

    also not fine was the lack of explanation of the missing ducks. Otherwise I am happy.


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    #46
    nicowa
    Registered Users Posts: 700 ✭✭✭nicowa


    Pittens wrote: »
    it [also] exploded on the 26th June - today

    I never got that... :o


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    #47
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    Pittens wrote: »
    they were at the eye of the storm. The universe was exploding around the tardis which was close to the earth. it also exploded on the 26th June - tooay - but the effects were felt back in time. So it was exactly on the 26th June that the universe would have ended, and the explosion happened, so the Earth and the universe had to last that long ( otherwise it would have had it's own paradox) . The effect of the explosion near Earth was felt back in time throughout the ages - hence the lack of stars in human history, but the end of the universe and the date of the explosion was on the 26th June.

    But either it's everywhere & everywhen, or it's in one specific place and time. The former means all places and times, ie no bloody "eye of the storm".

    You can't have it be everywhere and everywhen at those moments where your plot requires it, but not be everywhere the rest of the time, and give no explanation for what's changed. I mean, the exploding TARDIS takes the place of Sol in our solar system over the 2000odd years that the story spans, in the revised universe that is slowly falling apart. Why would there be any "eye of the storm" if the exploding TARDIS is there at all moments in between? (Aside from "because the story needs one", that is).

    Edited to add:

    Let's not get into the paradox of the Pandorica allowing people and things erased from time to come back - because the easiest way for that paradox to be resolved is for the Pandorica itself to also get erased from time. Or why the species that had been erased from time after the Pandorica closed weren't so erased that they actually disappeared and were forgotten, but just got turned into stone statues.


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    #48
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    But either it's everywhere or it's in one specific place. Being everywhere means everywhere, ie no bloody "eye of the storm". You can't have it be everywhere when your plot requires it, but not be everywhere the rest of the time, and give no explanation for what's changed.

    You are probably over analyzing a show which has a lot more paradoxs than that one.

    I think it makes sense in a timey wimey wibbly wobby way. If there is an explosion in space time on or near the Earth on the 26th of June 2010 which causes the rest of the universe to have never been then the effect would be felt last on earth as the Earth has to get to 26th June 2010. As I said. Everything else blinked out, and lastly the Earth.
    it exploded which means that it would have been the Sun for the 2000odd years that the story spans)

    The explosion happened on the 26th June. I have no idea if that explosion was seen back in time or it replaced the Sun on that day. It should have been night when they left the museum.


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    #49
    nicowa
    Registered Users Posts: 700 ✭✭✭nicowa


    Fysh wrote: »
    But either it's everywhere or it's in one specific place. Being everywhere means everywhere, ie no bloody "eye of the storm". You can't have it be everywhere when your plot requires it, but not be everywhere the rest of the time, and give no explanation for what's changed. (Quite aside from which is, it replaced the Sun once it exploded which means that it would have been the Sun for the 2000odd years that the story spans).

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HandWave

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoctorWho

    And just for fun (limited time offer as it will shortly be updated):
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/DoctorWhoS31E13TheBigBang

    What that page says/said:
    Since the universe ended last time, this episode is a 55 minute apology with gentle music...

    PS: WARNING: Don't click if you have an addictive personality or have something you really need to do today!
    (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife)


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    #50
    mach1982
    Registered Users Posts: 760 ✭✭✭mach1982


    Fysh wrote: »

    Let's not get into the paradox of the Pandorica allowing people and things erased from time to come back - because the easiest way for that paradox to be resolved is for the Pandorica itself to also get erased from time. Or why the species that had been erased from time after the Pandorica closed weren't so erased that they actually disappeared and were forgotten, but just got turned into stone statues.

    But who built the Pandorica? I don't think the Alliance would be smart enough. Who know how to stop a Lord and other Time Lord?


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    #51
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    That was....less cool than I was expecting. Bit deus ex machina the whole thing.


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    #52
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,804 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Absolutely brilliant. No big Deus Ex Machina. Rory's story was genius. The mindf*ck with Amy in the Pandorica was brilliant. It was really funny. And the "Something old, something new, something borrowed and something blue" bit was fantastic.

    My only gripe would have been at the end of Flesh and Stone, River said she'd see them when The Pandorica Opens, meaning it was too obvious that they'd all survive it somehow. But either way, definitely the best 2 part finale (and final episode) of the revamped series


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    #53
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    Very, very disappointed with this episode. Too many unanswered questions (mainly how did he get OUT of the Pandorica in the first place. Last weeks episode had him being locked for all eternity in a prison devised by his enemies etc etc, universes blinking out of existence, companions being bumped off and then this week sees him jumping back and forward in time with a fez and mop undoing all the stuff that happened last week - poor story telling in my book!)

    Feeling a bit short changed about that and a few of the other loose ends (silence falling, TARDIS being controlled by a "mysterious" entity, ominous voice being heard which may or may not have been Davros). Three year arc maybe, but if not then somone needs to have a word with the writers.


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    #54
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,804 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    crayolastereo wrote: »
    That was....less cool than I was expecting. Bit deus ex machina the whole thing.

    Really? I thought the opposite. Let's face it, in the RTD era we had Rose absorbing the time vortex and destroying half a million Daleks by waving her hand, people from a parallel dimension turning up, the Doctor turning into Old Man Tinkerbell then into SuperDoctor, and Donna becoming half Doctor, as well as a new HumanDoctor.

    In this, the Doctor was brought back simply because he left a way for Amy to remember him. Something for which there had been clues about for the entire series


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    #55
    Also Starring LeVar Burton
    Registered Users Posts: 18,503 ✭✭✭✭Also Starring LeVar Burton


    phil1nj wrote: »
    Very, very disappointed with this episode. Too many unanswered questions (mainly how did he get OUT of the Pandorica in the first place. Last weeks episode had him being locked for all eternity in a prison devised by his enemies etc etc, universes blinking out of existence, companions being bumped off and then this week sees him jumping back and forward in time with a fez and mop undoing all the stuff that happened last week - poor story telling in my book!)

    Feeling a bit short changed about that and a few of the other loose ends (silence falling, TARDIS being controlled by a "mysterious" entity, ominous voice being heard which may or may not have been Davros). Three year arc maybe, but if not then somone needs to have a word with the writers.

    Wow, you really don't get time travel do you? And you possibly missed a good portion of the episode, because how he got out was shown to us...


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    #56
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    Eh no, dont think I missed most of this episode. Saw him appear and give Rory his sonic screwdriver with instructions telling him how to let him out and put Amy in instead. Time travel or not that's just cheating.


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    #57
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭wench


    CaptainNegative wrote: »
    how he got out was shown to us...
    it was, but there is still the paradox that he travelled back to tell Rory to open the Pandorica, but he could only do that because Rory had opened it...


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    #58
    nicowa
    Registered Users Posts: 700 ✭✭✭nicowa


    phil1nj wrote: »
    Eh no, dont think I missed most of this episode. Saw him appear and give Rory his sonic screwdriver with instructions telling him how to let him out and put Amy in instead. Time travel or not that's just cheating.

    Well, if you think about it, who else besides the Doctor is going to be able to get the Doctor out of that fix? It's a chicken-and-egg situation, the way it happened, but that's what so good about it. Bit of a mindf...... if you know what I mean?!?!


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    #59
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,634 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Fez's are cool.


    :D

    A cast of four people and yet the finale felt more epic and stirring than many previous final stories. Epic, amazing, heart breaking, exciting, stunning stuff. Enjoyed every last minute of it. Amazing to think how seldom time travel actually features in Dr. Who, and yet here it was so cheekily done - and mostly made sense. Yes it was built on a big paradox, but that's the fun of it. The doctor got out because in the future he had already got out. Marvellous :)

    And the ending was fantastic. The whole wedding sequence was lovely when Amy & Rory remembered the Doctor. Equally fantastic is that the two of them, newly weds, head off with him! Yay, more Rory!

    Roll on Xmas / Series 6.


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    #60
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    So he travelled back in time to tell Rory to open the Padorica (check), Rory then opened the Padorica to let him out (check). This was possible because Rory had already opened the Padorica in teh future (check) ...head expolodes!!!!!

    Sorry, still sounds like a major cop out to me (and over simplistic to boot).


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    #61
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,634 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    phil1nj wrote: »
    So he travelled back in time to tell Rory to open the Padorica (check), Rory then opened the Padorica to let him out (check). This was possible because Rory had already opened the Padorica in teh future (check) ...head expolodes!!!!!

    Sorry, still sounds like a major cop out to me (and over simplistic to boot).
    Makes sense to me. It is a show about a time travelling basketcase after all.

    If RTD was writing it, he'd have used a ressurection potion, which of course is not at all simplistic or a cop-out. Lord no, that's just Science that is.


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