Queen Elizabeth II to visit Ireland.

cursai

I couldnt give a flying F%$% whether she comes or not. i wont have to listen to her. :P

rovert

aDeener wrote: »

how is that trolling. it is true, it would make a lot of people happier, granted it would also make a lot of people unhappy, but what he said still holds

Explain how it would change peoples lives?

Most of the people who it would make happy are the same people who had IRA written on their pencil case.

aDeener

rovert wrote: »

Are you trollling or what?



Because they are very different situations. Just a guess mate.

they are remarkably similar in a lot of ways - both oppressed ireland for years, both have leaders who apparently have no real control over those below them, both left a lot of victims still struggling today as a result

aDeener

rovert wrote: »

Explain how it would change peoples lives?

ehh are you serious? different currency, different tax rates...

aDeener

rovert wrote: »

Explain how it would change peoples lives?

Most of the people who it would make happy are the same people who had IRA written on their pencil case.

:rolleyes:

so you are admitting that it would make people happy? odd

Wolfe Tone

rovert wrote: »

Explain how it would change peoples lives?

Most of the people who it would make happy are the same people who had IRA written on their pencil case.

Thats just retarded.

Eliot Rosewater

aDeener wrote: »

i find it funny how whenever anglo-irish relations are brought up people always trot out the "move on, its all in the past" line and tell everyone to mature and grow up. but whenever the ills of the catholic church and the horrible things they did in the past is brought up the same is never said. i wonder why?

Perhaps because the issue of Priest paedophilia is a current affair, happening now, whereas this anti-British begrudgery is based on things that happened nearly 90 years ago.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Unification would make a lot f people happier.

But how would it? The only difference will probably be a different crest on letterheads, and different colour postboxes. People idealise this idea of independence or unification, for example the 1916 risers talking of the "august destiny" to which they were called. Or DeV talking about old men spreading wisdom by the fireside. It's all wishy washy, and bears no relation to real life. The things people like to do - read, play sport, watch sport, socialise, drink, court each other etc etc - would be exactly the same if Ireland was unified.

I just don't see how it bears any relation to me everyday life and my striving to be content and happy.

John C

The UK is Ireland's nearest neighbour. Its people speak our language. Hundreds of thouands of Irish people have lived all their working lives there. They work in virtually all areas of british life. Some have high positions. Ireland's Head of State has been to London.

Yes the Queen should make a state visit to Ireland.

aDeener

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Perhaps because the issue of Priest paedophilia is a current affair, happening now, whereas this anti-British begrudgery is based on things that happened nearly 90 years ago.



But how would it? The only difference will probably be a different crest on letterheads, and different colour postboxes. People idealise this idea of independence or unification, for example the 1916 risers taking of the "august destiny" to which they were called. Or DeV talking about old men spreading wisdom by the fireside. It's all wishy washy, and bears no relation to real life. The things people like to do - read, play sport, watch sport, socialise, drink, court each other etc etc - would be exactly the same if Ireland was unified.

I just don't see how it bears any relation to me everyday life and my striving to be content and happy.

the crimes of the paedophile priests are long in the past, some of the culprits are still walking around free men today, which is wrong.in the same way the crimes of the british soldier are in the past but they are still walking around as free men today, which is wrong. and bloody sunday was not 90 years ago :rolleyes:

Wolfe Tone

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Perhaps because the issue of Priest paedophilia is a current affair, happening now, whereas this anti-British begrudgery is based on things that happened nearly 90 years ago.

No, not all of it is.

But how would it? The only difference will probably be a different crest on letterheads, and different colour postboxes. People idealise this idea of independence or unification, for example the 1916 risers talking of the "august destiny" to which they were called. Or DeV talking about old men spreading wisdom by the fireside. It's all wishy washy, and bears no relation to real life. The things people like to do - read, play sport, watch sport, socialise, drink, court each other etc etc - would be exactly the same if Ireland was unified.

I just don't see how it bears any relation to me everyday life and my striving to be content and happy.

Why do you think people have fought and died for years for Irish independence? Wishy washy? The hundreds of thousands of Irish men and women who were left behind to decades of discrimination and suppression when we got our freedom will be much happier upon unification. Bears no relation to real life? Yes it does. Maybe not for you personally but for a huge amount of people on this island it does.

Eliot Rosewater

aDeener wrote: »

the crimes of the paedophile priests are long in the past, some of the culprits are still walking around free men today, which is wrong.in the same way the crimes of the british soldier are in the past but they are still walking around as free men today, which is wrong. and bloody sunday was not 90 years ago :rolleyes:

You're still looking towards the past. Bloody Sunday was terrible and I welcome the recent report. Is that a reason to protest at the Queen visiting Dublin? When exactly will people move on and start concentrating on achieving contentedness and happiness, rather than constantly looking backwards?

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Why do you think people have fought and died for years for Irish independence? Wishy washy?

The Irish people fought for better Irish representation, for sure. However, how much of fight was based upon this idealistic notion that life would be perfect afterwards? That independence was the be-all and end-all? What perceptible difference would unification make to the lives of those in the Republic now?

But you say that unification would make people happy. Some people will no doubt protest when the Queen comes. Will that make them happy? Will fighting Gardaí make them happy? Does constantly taking a negative view of the governmental systems of the British Isles make them happy?

I just don't buy it. I'm a content person. I like reading, watching the World Cup and meeting up with friends. None of that is dictated by whether I'm in Ireland, or Northern Ireland, or England, or anywhere else in the EU now.

rovert

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats just retarded.

Sorry but it is the truth. That is where alot of nationalists down south at least come from.

aDeener wrote: »

the crimes of the paedophile priests are long in the past, some of the culprits are still walking around free men today, which is wrong.in the same way the crimes of the british soldier are in the past but they are still walking around as free men today, which is wrong. and bloody sunday was not 90 years ago :rolleyes:

This is such a ridiclous parrell to the degree it is rather sad. I dont think youve grasp on either situation.

Coillte_Bhoy

aDeener wrote: »

i find it funny how whenever anglo-irish relations are brought up people always trot out the "move on, its all in the past" line and tell everyone to mature and grow up. but whenever the ills of the catholic church and the horrible things they did in the past is brought up the same is never said. i wonder why?

Because it's hardly in the past is it?? Do you want to forget about it all??

Coillte_Bhoy

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Perhaps because the issue of Priest paedophilia is a current affair, happening now, whereas this anti-British begrudgery is based on things that happened nearly 90 years ago.

How is it begrudgery?? And this stance is based on things that have happened in the last 30 years and also much longer than 90 yeras ago.

Wolfe Tone

rovert wrote: »

Sorry but it is the truth. That is where alot of nationalists down south at least come from.

So, I am a nationalist from "Down south" and I never had IRA written on my pencil case. So think before you spew out retarded statements like that.

rovert

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

How is it begrudgery?? And this stance is based on things that have happened in the last 30 years and also much longer than 90 yeras ago.

Which many people who were you know actually involved in the middle of have moved on from. Maybe you dont know but Catholics and Protestant work together now up there, not only that they are in goverment together :eek::eek::eek:

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

So, I am a nationalist from "Down south" and I never had IRA written on my pencil case. So think before you spew out retarded statements like that.

^ Coming from the person that said that unification would change lives thats quite the compliment.

Wolfe Tone

I have many relations and friends who live in Ulster. The would be much happier if Ireland was Unified, their lives would change.

You aren't blind to that surely?

Eliot Rosewater

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

How is it begrudgery?? And this stance is based on things that have happened in the last 30 years and also much longer than 90 yeras ago.

Yeah, I think begrudgery was the wrong word to use, sorry. Perhaps dislike would be better. Consider, for example, the anachronistic phrase "800 years". People have a dislike towards Britain and British people now because of what their ancestors did to our ancestors hundreds of years ago.

I can accept the anger directed towards the British government over the Troubles, though not to the levels extended by some. But it begs the question: how will your constant criticism of what the British army did, to someone else 20 years ago, change your life? I'm all for remembering and commemorating the past but I'm against using it as a basis for your attitude towards a whole nation today. I just can't understand how protesting against the Queen will make anyone happier.

When will people move on?

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I have many relations and friends who live in Ulster. The would be much happier if Ireland was Unified, their lives would change.

You aren't blind to that surely?

How would it make them happier?

Coillte_Bhoy

rovert wrote: »

Which many people who were you know actually involved in the middle of have moved on from. Maybe you dont know but Catholics and Protestant work together now up there, not only that they are in goverment together :eek::eek::eek:
.

Wow really??? I was merely making the point that anti british feeling doesnt stem solely from something that 'happened 90 years ago'

rovert

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I have many relations and fiends who live in Ulster. The would be much happier if Ireland was Unified, there lives would change.

You aren't blind to that surely?

Great typo considering. :pac:

How exactly would it change?

Coillte_Bhoy

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Yeah, I think begrudgery was the wrong word to use, sorry. Perhaps dislike would be better. Consider, for example, the anachronistic phrase "800 years". People have a dislike towards Britain and British people now because of what their ancestors did to our ancestors hundreds of years ago.

I can accept the anger directed towards the British government over the Troubles, though not to the levels extended by some. But it begs the question: how will your constant criticism of what the British army did, to someone else 20 years ago, change your life? I'm all for remembering and commemorating the past but I'm against using it as a basis for your attitude towards a whole nation today. I just can't understand how protesting against the Queen will make anyone happier.

When will people move on?



How would it make them happier?

Where am i constantly criticising the brits?

Anyway i was just being a pedantic bore:P

Wolfe Tone

Bit rich picking on a simple mistake dont you think?

How exactly who it change?

rovert

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Bit rich picking on a simple mistake dont you think?

Keep avoiding the question.

Judgement Day

Biggins wrote: »

Fair enough. I'm sure business heads will look forward to her sitting down and discussing at length/detail, business plans and future prospects before signing up to legal contracts.

I was only putting the usual official spin that goes with these visits - how many actual jobs, contracts etc do you think Biffo signed on his ten second visit to the Oval Office on St.Patrick's Day.

Wolfe Tone

rovert wrote: »

Keep avoiding the question.

You must be blind if you cannot see why nationalists will be happy when unification occurs. What will change? For Gods sake man, thats very obvious to be honest. For one nationalists will no longer be under the thumb of a foreign government, the BA will be gone forever, etc etc

rovert

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

You must be blind if you cannot see why nationalists will be happy when unification occurs. What will change? For Gods sake man, thats very obvious to be honest. For one nationalists will no longer be under the thumb of a foreign government, the BA will be gone forever, etc etc

How would their lives change from day-to-day? What you are talking about is politics and admin really nothing to with the quality of life.

Wolfe Tone

rovert wrote: »

How would their lives change from day-to-day? What you are talking about is politics and admin really nothing to with the quality of life.

Politics and administration have EVERYTHING to do with day to day life and its quality. Whether it be through taxes and what not, or a simple sense of freedom that thousands in the 6 counties crave.
For example, thousands of posters have called for FFs heads, but by your logic, it doesn't really mater does it?

Judgement Day

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

You must be blind if you cannot see why nationalists will be happy when unification occurs. What will change? For Gods sake man, thats very obvious to be honest. For one nationalists will no longer be under the thumb of a foreign government, the BA will be gone forever, etc etc

I wouldn't hold your breath while you wait for unification. We seem quite far off topic here but at least neither of us want the Queen to visit Ireland.

Wolfe Tone

It wont happen tomorrow for sure, but one day it will.

sensibleken

why would it? Ireland was only ever unified under british rule. before that it was a patchwork of different administrations, usually beating the crap out of one another, don't forget it was an irishman that invited the anglo-normans in. So what makes you think a unified ireland is an inevitability or the natural way it should be.

rovert

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Politics and administration have EVERYTHING to do with day to day life and its quality. Whether it be through taxes and what not, or a simple sense of freedom that thousands in the 6 counties crave.
For example, thousands of posters have called for FFs heads, but by your logic, it doesn't really mater does it?

Sorry but youve still havent explained how it would CHANGE LIFES. If this was the mid 90s maybe I would agree with you.

Anyway back to the topic at hand.

My main question mainly comes down to this:

If this can happen:



Why can’t the Queen visit Ireland? Are there really some people that are that much nostalgic for the 70’s? I honestly think there is a sizable group of people who would prefer for a return of the troubles than peace and reconciliation. Otherwise I dont understand the mentality.

Wolfe Tone

As I said earlier, if she comes here in a reconciliatory manner and her visit has some sort of aim rather than "Oh look, Old woman Windsor is here" then it may be a good thing. Otherwise it is a waste of everyones time and money.
Well, if one wants to see a return to the hey day of the troubles now that violence is no longer an unfortunate necessity then they have issues.

Coillte_Bhoy

sensibleken wrote: »

why would it? Ireland was only ever unified under british rule. before that it was a patchwork of different administrations, usually beating the crap out of one another, don't forget it was an irishman that invited the anglo-normans in. So what makes you think a unified ireland is an inevitability or the natural way it should be.

As was the case in many modern European nation states.

Jaap

I don't see what the fuss is all about...and why this thread was started!!!
I remember a few years ago there was all this talk of "God Save The Queen" being played at Croke Park at a rugby international...would anybody boo etc.!!!
The only protest was a few men and a dog outside the stadium...Ireland supporters clapped after the English anthem was played!!!
People have moved on...except for those with serious issues!!!
Maybe those people need to get a bit more fresh air...especially with the good weather...instead of posting gibberish on here!!!

luckyfrank

Good news i think and what an historic visit it would be ill take my wife and 2 kids to see her

For me as an irishman actully seeing the queen of england visitng ireland will be a 'man walking on the moon' moment it's something i thought id never see

Coillte_Bhoy

luckyfrank wrote: »

Good news i think and what an historic visit it would be ill take my wife and 2 kids to see her

For me as an irishman actully seeing the queen of england visitng ireland will be a 'man walking on the moon' moment it's something i thought id never see

Wow, you really know how to treat a woman.:rolleyes:

caseyann

For the simple fact she is nobody and nothing to me,i would prefer if we didn't roll out red carpet to her,i wouldn't roll it out for one if we had one,so certainly against not wasting their tax payers money and in middle of recession they are also and our money, wining and dining some old fogey :rolleyes:
God i am so sick of people kissing their butts and making like they are someone important when all they are is blood and guts like rest of us.Its like movie stars and politicians.Its a job nothing more.I would much rather see them roll out a parade and red carpet for fire fighters and sea and air rescue etc......

lugha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

You must be blind if you cannot see why nationalists will be happy when unification occurs. What will change? For Gods sake man, thats very obvious to be honest. For one nationalists will no longer be under the thumb of a foreign government, the BA will be gone forever, etc etc

It will be fun to watch if and when a UI does happen just to see how little difference it will make to anything or anybody . It certainly won't make anything better for anyone (apart from the British taxpayer who will be up several billion per annum on the whole deal). The best we can hope for is that it won't make things significantly worse.

prinz

Maybe while she is here and apologising Prince Philip could get an apology for the murder of his uncle?

caseyann

prinz wrote: »

Maybe while she is here and apologising Prince Philip could get an apology for the murder of his uncle?

Prinz with all due respect they as a government and a monarchy murdered Irish people etc...
But IRA committed that murder.Irish government nor military had nothing to do with that so sorry is not needed.Only ones who should be saying sorry is the IRA.

prinz

caseyann wrote: »

Only ones who should be saying sorry is the IRA.

That's who I meant. You'll find it's the usual 'RA heads who'll pop up demanding the Queen apologise for x, y and z.

Judgement Day

prinz wrote: »

Maybe while she is here and apologising Prince Philip could get an apology for the murder of his uncle?

Don't forget the 14 and 15 old kids that were also murdered on the boat along with an 82 year old grandmother - another great blow against the wicked English. :rolleyes:

Knarr

She should not be welcomed. She represents a state which has invaded and occupied two countries in recent history, and which has slaughtered thousands in the process, polluting their water and land and destroying their homes.

Unless there is consequence to the barbarous actions undertaken by rougue states such as Israel, the UK and the USA then their actions will continue.

Symbolically it is disgusting that a representative from a murderous warmongering state such as the UK be allowed set foot on this island. The only island the likes of her should set foot on is spike island. Behind bars.

prinz

Knarr wrote: »

Symbolically it is disgusting that a representative from a murderous warmongering state such as the UK be allowed set foot on this island. The only island the likes of her should set foot on is spike island. Behind bars.

Did you object to the recent visit by the Foreign Minister IIRC of Iran?

Knarr

prinz wrote: »

Did you object to the recent visit by the Foreign Minister IIRC of Iran?

No. I am not aware of any countries they are currently occupying, or have invaded, within recent history. Besides, we should also oppose states who maintain WMDs, the UK being one.

supersportq

Can we keep John Bruton locked under the stairs ?

prinz

Knarr wrote: »

No. I am not aware of any countries they are currently occupying, or have invaded. Besides, we should also oppose states who maintain WMDs, the UK being one.

Iranian "occupation" of Kurdistan doesn't count no? Not to mention say the execution of teenage girls for being sexually abused etc. Nah we can over look that sort of thing.

Knarr

prinz wrote: »

Iranian "occupation" of Kurdistan doesn't count no? Not to mention say the execution of teenage girls for being sexually abused etc. Nah we can over look that sort of thing.

Oh it is. But its not recognised internationally. When discussing with you lot its important to stay conventional.

Clearly you are well capable of 'over looking that sort of thing' welcoming the Queen - wars, occupations and such.

Coillte_Bhoy

prinz wrote: »

Iranian "occupation" of Kurdistan doesn't count no? Not to mention say the execution of teenage girls for being sexually abused etc. Nah we can over look that sort of thing.

Silly mexample. By your logic Spain is occupying Catalonia is it?

sink

Historical justification and impetus Irish independence was driven by the desire for civil rights and the resentment against those who denied those civil rights. Had there been equality the population would have been content, and there would have been no violent clamour for independence, as in the cases of Wales and Scotland.

Today civil rights has been achieved for all no matter the side of the line on which one sits. The fire that stoked the drive for independence has been put out. All that remains are historical vestiges, held now only by an ever smaller minority.

Nationalism itself is vacant, it only serves as a means to an end, a tool to right a perceived wrong, both real and imaginary.

Yes, the Queen as a representative of the people of the UK should be welcomed to our shores.