Queen Elizabeth II to visit Ireland.

Elmo

Judgement Day wrote: »

A bit off topic, but I have noted a marked reluctance amongst many posters here and on other similar threads to even contemplate rejoining the Commonwealth as a step to a united Ireland - if this is reflective of the broad nationalist community there is zero possibility of any 32 county state. Just my opinion as I couldn't care less whether or not Ireland is united/rejoins the Commonwealth or even the UK - it won't affect my life one jot.

Too many Partisioners in the country. They would come up with the same old lines of how Ireland Unite would be far to expensive etc etc etc.

Fine Gael in 1949 took us out of the Commonwealth without really considering the consequences. And we were very effective within the Commonwealth at the time, e.g. Allowing Commonwealth countries to have a President e.g. Douglas Hyde and Sean T. O'Kelly. (Oh and Mugaby :eek: )

The Unionist would still find issues with the idea, possible the reasons they gave for not want home rule.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What are you talking about? I'm not being smart I honestly didn't understand your post.

I thought I explained it. Football is not Soccer. I am neutral on this subject it is Soccer, Gealic and Rugby just so that I don't offend anyone.

mathepac

The degree of ignorance in this thread is staggering.

20goto10 wrote: »

She's been invited to the Republic of Ireland. ...

She has actually been invited to visit Ireland by the Government of Ireland. There is no country called "the Republic of Ireland"; check previous posts in this thread or refer to our Constitution ( Article 4, discussed here )

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

And you would know it is The British Government that awards those honours, not the Queen herself. ...

Lizzie (on her birthday) grants honours based on the recommendations of her Government. They are in her gift, not her Government's.

The loyal subjects to be honoured by the monarch get an invite for cucumber sandwiches and tiffin on the lawn at Buck House on Lizzie's birthday and she gives them a bit of paper, a little Christmas cracker-type enamelled brooch and a MLA to tag onto their names.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

... For those that want Wilfords honour removed they need to petition the right people, which is not the Queen.
...

Lizzie grants these honours, only Lizzie can take them away.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

All this Commander-in-Chief business is a red herring, ...

All British servicemen and women, private soldiers and commissioned officers alike swear an oath of allegiance to the Crown - the Monarch and her heirs and successors, not to the Government. The Monarch is the Supreme Commander and exercises direct control over the armed forces through family members who are colonels-in-chief over various sections of it.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

... it wasn't the Queen who sent the troops into the north, it was her Government. She is merely a figurehead and couldn't have stopped them sending them in if thats what they wanted.

As Colonel-in-Chief she bears ultimate responsibility for the actions of her armed forces, but as is normal in these circumstances some minor functionary will do the right thing and take one for Queen and country in a trumped-up kangaroo court, sparing Lizzies's blushes again.

Iwasfrozen

mathepac wrote: »

The degree of ignorance in this thread is staggering.

I often find it funny how the people who call other people ignorant are often the ignorant ones themselves.

mathepac wrote: »

She has actually been invited to visit Ireland by the Government of Ireland. There is no country called "the Republic of Ireland"; check previous posts in this thread or refer to our Constitution ( Article 4, discussed here )

The poster was refering to Ireland as the Rep. of Ireland to differ it from Northern Ireland which is a home country of the United Kingdom and not a Republic.
Do you always call countrys by their official name? Such as using the term Côte d'Ivoire instead of the Ivory Coast? I doubt it.

mathepac wrote: »

Lizzie (on her birthday) grants honours based on the recommendations of her Government. They are in her gift, not her Government's.

Lizzie grants these honours, only Lizzie can take them away.

You're right when you say it's her gift but are you right when you say she can take it away? I've never seen a case where an OBE has been taken away from someone and I doubt it's even possible.

mathepac wrote: »

All British servicemen and women, private soldiers and commissioned officers alike swear an oath of allegiance to the Crown - the Monarch and her heirs and successors, not to the Government. The Monarch is the Supreme Commander and exercises direct control over the armed forces through family members who are colonels-in-chief over various sections of it.

You're right she is Commander in Chief of the British army. Just like Barack Obama is the Commander in Chief of the American army and our own dear Mary McAleese is Commander in Chief of the Irish army. However just like Obama and our own dear Mary she does not operate any control over the army. Indeed there would probably be an uproar in Britain if she did.

mathepac wrote: »

As Colonel-in-Chief she bears ultimate responsibility for the actions of her armed forces, but as is normal in these circumstances some minor functionary will do the right thing and take one for Queen and country in a trumped-up kangaroo court, sparing Lizzies's blushes again.

No she doesn't. She cannot take any responsibility for something she wasn't even involved in. Not that I see what any of this has to do with her visit.

Dirty Frank

Whats the fuss about it? Why are people opposed to it? I don't see a problem, I'd consider myself biased as a free stater but can't see any harm in her coming to visit.

aDeener

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I often find it funny how the people who call other people ignorant are often the ignorant ones themselves.

The poster was refering to Ireland as the Rep. of Ireland to differ it from Northern Ireland which is a home country of the United Kingdom and not a Republic.
Do you always call countrys by their official name? Such as using the term Côte d'Ivoire instead of the Ivory Coast? I doubt it.


You're right when you say it's her gift but are you right when you say she can take it away? I've never seen a case where an OBE has been taken away from someone and I doubt it's even possible.


You're right she is Commander in Chief of the British army. Just like Barack Obama is the Commander in Chief of the American army and our own dear Mary McAleese is Commander in Chief of the Irish army. However just like Obama and our own dear Mary she does not operate any control over the army. Indeed there would probably be an uproar in Britain if she did.


No she doesn't. She cannot take any responsibility for something she wasn't even involved in. Not that I see what any of this has to do with her visit.

Roger Casement had his honours stripped off him

mathepac

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I often find it funny how the people who call other people ignorant are often the ignorant ones themselves...

You'll probably find my explanation to another poster above useful.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

... The poster was refering to Ireland as the Rep. of Ireland to differ it from Northern Ireland ...

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

... You're right when you say it's her gift but are you right when you say she can take it away? I've never seen a case where an OBE has been taken away from someone and I doubt it's even possible...

Instances of honours bestowed by the monarch being taken away are numerous. From an Irish perspective a pertinent example is that of Roger Casement (formerly Sir Roger Casement KB, CMG) civil servant, diplomat, human rights activist, who was stripped of all his British honours (knighthood, Knight Bachelor of The Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George) prior to his execution having been tried and found guilty of treason. He died a poet, Irish Nationalist, patriot and is best remembered here as a revolutionary and martyr.

sceptre

Mod instruction: tone down the idiotic personalisation of the discussion. Now, please. Mutual politeness is both required and expected.

I've deleted about 10 posts that were off-topic to the point of silliness, some also very silly. Also one or two that referenced them, making better points than the sillies but alas, off-topic. Some left that are little better but at least ostensibly trying.

/mod

Cormac2791

Only if it's to give back the 6

DublinWriter

Dirty Frank wrote: »

Whats the fuss about it? Why are people opposed to it? I don't see a problem, I'd consider myself biased as a free stater but can't see any harm in her coming to visit.

I'm not opposed to it on political grounds, but ffs won't someone think of the Garda overtime bill?!?

Remember when Bush came to visit and *every* attested member of AGS was on the double-tap? They even spent thousands taking the speed-bumps out of Phoenix Park then re-installing them after the visit.

lugha

DublinWriter wrote: »

I'm not opposed to it on political grounds, but ffs won't someone think of the Garda overtime bill?!?

Remember when Bush came to visit and *every* attested member of AGS was on the double-tap? They even spent thousands taking the speed-bumps out of Phoenix Park then re-installing them after the visit.

I believe the cost argument to be entirely spurious but if you want to make it, surely you must be consistent. I.e. put paid to all symbolic visits by foreign dignitaries as they all cost some money. And of course we would have to expect foreign governments to respond in kind and decline to invite Irish dignitaries to their shores. And thus we would piddle away the unique and invaluable opportunity that St. Patrick’s day affords us.

rovert

cormacharraghy wrote: »

Only if it's to give back the 6

Yep as it is that simply isnt it.

Dub in the Sticks

If you believe in any history, we have been interacting with the Brits since St. Patrick came here from Wales in 432 AD.

That's only about 1700 years ago.

We talk a lot about the past 800 years, conveniently forgetting that we invited the English in to subjugate the Normans (who we also invited in).

As far as I am concerned the Queen is welcome.

Her Government is taking care of far more Irish people than the "Irish" government is.

Do the sums. Where did all the people go that Brian Lenihan begged to get out?

After 1700 years interaction with the Brits we still don't get it.

DitS.

Richard

Dub in the Sticks wrote: »

If you believe in any history, we have been interacting with the Brits since St. Patrick came here from Wales in 432 AD.

I think if Home Rule and the Easter Rising had played out differently, views of previous events would have been viewed in a different light. The same can be said of the modern Bloody Sunday.

The fact that the Scoti, an Irish tribe, invaded what is now Scotland (giving it the name Scotland) and overwhelming the native population is conveniently overlooked because it doesn't serve a modern purpose.

Atrocities by the Vikings are also ignored.

Judgement Day

Heard this announcement on the radio this morning: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/queen-visit-to-cost-taxpayer-8m-463225.html

and it reminded me of the last time 'a ring of steel' was put in place by Ireland's security services - remember this: http://www.rte.ie/tv/gardaarlar/09prog5.html

Hope someone has passed on this info to the Brits - perhaps they can bring the Life Guards over with the Queen as it would add a splash of colour to the event.



Certainly the Love Ulster march fiasco would not inspire confidence in the ability of the State to keep the lid on things.

nuac

I support ths invitation to QE II

Because

1. The referenda on the GFA have settled the polical problem in the Nothe of Ireland and make it clear that any further changes there will be by consent.

2. The UK is a huge market for out exports and for tourism. A successful state visit would help with these and thus sustain employment here.

Denerick

I'm sure the little Irelanders will be appaled by this. Let them stew in their rural pubs, lamenting the way the modern world has gone, and ditch these unrepresentative, bigoted, small minded losers once and for all.

karma_

Denerick wrote: »

I'm sure the little Irelanders will be appaled by this. Let them stew in their rural pubs, lamenting the way the modern world has gone, and ditch these unrepresentative, bigoted, small minded losers once and for all.

There yee go all who disagree with this poster, you are just a 'little Irelander' and a looser to boot. Case resolved, lets move along now.

Denerick

karma_ wrote: »

There yee go all who disagree with this poster, you are just a 'little Irelander' and a looser to boot. Case resolved, lets move along now.

Is there any other explanation for opposing the visit of a foreign head of State, one who is our largest trading partner, a compatriot within the European Union, and a host nation for millions of people of Irish descent?

rovert

Denerick wrote: »

Is there any other explanation for opposing the visit of a foreign head of State, one who is our largest trading partner, a compatriot within the European Union, and a host nation for millions of people of Irish descent?

The cost of €8 million suppose :rolleyes:

cagney88

I wouldn't mind the queen coming here per se, however, the rest of the world still has trouble realising that we are no longer apart of the UK.

Ask any american tourist or just watch the Late Late when american celebrities remark 'how great it is to be here in the U.K.'

Many English people still think Ireland is apart of the U.K. Just this week Grazia had an article on the best U.K boutiques and low and behold there was a Dublin store on the list.

I find it maddening.

And as an aside, when I see posters suggesting that its time we move on, I think they should look at how England has yet to move on from its history with Argentina and Germany. The crowd were booing through the latter's anthem today.

Denerick

rovert wrote: »

The cost of €8 million suppose :rolleyes:

A drop in the sea. I love the way that thousands of little Irelanders across the country are suddenly proclaiming their devotion to fiscal conservatism though.

Stinicker

The Queen should not be welcomed to Ireland she has business on this Island and our Government should not welcome her here.

Denerick

Stinicker wrote: »

The Queen should not be welcomed to Ireland she has business on this Island and our Government should not welcome her here.

Can you please make that readable? What do you mean by 'business'?

IrishTonyO

Stinicker wrote: »

The Queen should not be welcomed to Ireland she has business on this Island and our Government should not welcome her here.

What you mean?

Stinicker

Denerick wrote: »

Can you please make that readable? What do you mean by 'business'?

She has no reason to be here and should not be welcomed. Ireland belongs to Irish people and our Northern counties are illegally occupied by British Troops and their Protestant planters sent in their in settlements.

Denerick

Stinicker wrote: »

She has no reason to be here and should not be welcomed. Ireland belongs to Irish people and our Northern counties are illegally occupied by British Troops and their Protestant planters sent in their in settlements.

Ah, I see. Nice trolling.

karma_

Denerick wrote: »

A drop in the sea. I love the way that thousands of little Irelanders across the country are suddenly proclaiming their devotion to fiscal conservatism though.

Why do you continue to be so abrasive? We already covered this ground with the 'west-brit' slur, but you persist in using 'Little Irelander', are you just trying to get posters backs up rather than discuss things in a reasonable manner?

IrishTonyO

Stinicker wrote: »

She has no reason to be here and should not be welcomed. Ireland belongs to Irish people and our Northern counties are illegally occupied by British Troops and their Protestant planters sent in their in settlements.

You are a bit behind the times I am afraid. The people of the south voted in a referendum and gave up our claim to the north, and think you will find the majority of people in south really couldn't care less

Denerick

karma_ wrote: »

Why do you continue to be so abrasive? We already covered this ground with the 'west-brit' slur, but you persist in using 'Little Irelander', are you just trying to get posters backs up rather than discuss things in a reasonable manner?

I can be less abrasive if you want, but that makes for boring keyboard wars.

Stinicker

IrishTonyO wrote: »

You are a bit behind the times I am afraid. The people of the south voted in a referendum and gave up our claim to the north, and think you will find the majority of people in south really couldn't care less

The people of Ireland voted for the peace process which is to lead to the re-unification of Ireland through peaceful means. Northern Ireland is under British Rule and Queen Elizabeth is the British Head of State, she is the Monarch, the same Monarchy that raped, pillaged and destroyed Ireland from the 1300's up until 1920 and continues to mistreat our people in Northern Ireland to this day.

This is the bigoted Monarchy that has a rule which prevents Catholics from ever becoming a King or Queen of England. It is the same Monarchy that ordered the Irish Genocide of the 1840's and then tried to cover its history and explain it all away as a famine despite Ireland as a country growing far more food than was necessary to sustain its population. As our people lay dying in the ditches this Monarchy ordered the export of food out of Ireland. This Queen has no place on our Island and should not be welcomed here.

IrishTonyO

Stinicker wrote: »

The people of Ireland voted for the peace process which is to lead to the re-unification of Ireland through peaceful means. Northern Ireland is under British Rule and Queen Elizabeth is the British Head of State, she is the Monarch, the same Monarchy that raped, pillaged and destroyed Ireland from the 1300's up until 1920 and continues to mistreat our people in Northern Ireland to this day.

This is the bigoted Monarchy that has a rule which prevents Catholics from ever becoming a King or Queen of England. It is the same Monarchy that ordered the Irish Genocide of the 1840's and then tried to cover its history and explain it all away as a famine despite Ireland as a country growing far more food than was necessary to sustain its population. As our people lay dying in the ditches this Monarchy ordered the export of food out of Ireland. This Queen has no place on our Island and should not be welcomed here.

Think you will find most of us are living in the present, have a good time in the past.

Denerick

Stinicker wrote: »

The people of Ireland voted for the peace process which is to lead to the re-unification of Ireland through peaceful means. Northern Ireland is under British Rule and Queen Elizabeth is the British Head of State, she is the Monarch, the same Monarchy that raped, pillaged and destroyed Ireland from the 1300's up until 1920 and continues to mistreat our people in Northern Ireland to this day.

What? King Edward I is Queen Elizabeth II in disguise? Will you give the '800' years thing a rest. We've had a century of that from mealy mouthed politicians in order to bloviate about their patriotism. Its a shame when people are so obsessed by their history, without bothering to take the time to actually study it properly.

This is the bigoted Monarchy that has a rule which prevents Catholics from ever becoming a King or Queen of England.

Queen Elizabeth II has no control over who her successor will be. There is a little thing called the British constitution.

It is the same Monarchy that ordered the Irish Genocide of the 1840's and then tried to cover its history and explain it all away as a famine despite Ireland as a country growing far more food than was necessary to sustain its population. As our people lay dying in the ditches this Monarchy ordered the export of food out of Ireland. This Queen has no place on our Island and should not be welcomed here.

BINGO! Read a ****ing history book.

EDIT: And this, my friends, is living proof of how the little Irelanders are still alive and well in our midst.

It wasn't me!

Stinicker wrote: »

She has no reason to be here and should not be welcomed. Ireland belongs to Irish people and our Northern counties are illegally occupied by British Troops and their Protestant planters sent in their in settlements.

Care to explain how the occupation is illegal?

Stinicker

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Think you will find most of us are living in the present, have a good time in the past.

Keep telling yourself that, you can fly your Union Jack all you want but you have turned your back on your history and on your people.

The Queens Visit is not only a gargantuan waste of taxpayers money but it is also opening the door for Dublin City Centre to burn to the ground once again. The people of Ireland will not stand idly by and welcome this bigot into our country and Love Ulster will look like a mere pub brawl if she is to visit.

There can be accusations of scumbaggery but the working classes have not turned their backs on their history and on their roots and true Irish people will never forget the destruction the British monarchy has wrought on this country.

IrishTonyO

Stinicker wrote: »

Keep telling yourself that, you can fly your Union Jack all you want but you have turned your back on your history and on your people.

The Queens Visit is not only a gargantuan waste of taxpayers money but it is also opening the door for Dublin City Centre to burn to the ground once again. The people of Ireland will not stand idly by and welcome this bigot into our country and Love Ulster will look like a mere pub brawl if she is to visit.

There can be accusations of scumbaggery but the working classes have not turned their backs on their history and on their roots and true Irish people will never forget the destruction the British monarchy has wrought on this country.

well they did in the referendum, hard luck

Denerick

Stinicker wrote: »

Keep telling yourself that, you can fly your Union Jack all you want but you have turned your back on your history and on your people.

The Queens Visit is not only a gargantuan waste of taxpayers money but it is also opening the door for Dublin City Centre to burn to the ground once again. The people of Ireland will not stand idly by and welcome this bigot into our country and Love Ulster will look like a mere pub brawl if she is to visit.

There can be accusations of scumbaggery but the working classes have not turned their backs on their history and on their roots and true Irish people will never forget the destruction the British monarchy has wrought on this country.

For every half drunk bogman in this country there is an apathetic person living in the real world who won't give two flying ****s if the British queen visits this country.

And yes, I fly my Union Jack every day out of the side of my car, just before I skin alive a few Catholics and drink their blood.

aDeener

Dub in the Sticks wrote: »

If you believe in any history, we have been interacting with the Brits since St. Patrick came here from Wales in 432 AD.

That's only about 1700 years ago.

We talk a lot about the past 800 years, conveniently forgetting that we invited the English in to subjugate the Normans (who we also invited in).

As far as I am concerned the Queen is welcome.

Her Government is taking care of far more Irish people than the "Irish" government is.

Do the sums. Where did all the people go that Brian Lenihan begged to get out?

After 1700 years interaction with the Brits we still don't get it.

DitS.

no "we" didn't, dermot macmurrough did

Denerick wrote: »

I'm sure the little Irelanders will be appaled by this. Let them stew in their rural pubs, lamenting the way the modern world has gone, and ditch these unrepresentative, bigoted, small minded losers once and for all.

i thought cruiser kicked the bucket :rolleyes:

Denerick

i thought cruiser kicked the bucket

Conor Cruise O'Brien was the greatest intellect this island produced since Burke.

Elmo

Denerick wrote: »

I'm sure the little Irelanders will be appaled by this. Let them stew in their rural pubs, lamenting the way the modern world has gone, and ditch these unrepresentative, bigoted, small minded losers once and for all.

I think it Ironic that an antiquated monarch could cause such crisis in rural Ireland, I am sure her husband will be disappointed that he won't be able to part take in some hunting while visiting. Tally Ho! and all that!

aDeener

Denerick wrote: »

Conor Cruise O'Brien was the greatest intellect this island produced since Burke.

the spokesman for free speech, how surprising.

o'brien was an out and out cunt, what a shame the fucker lived to such an age

ultain

hinault wrote: »

I'm indifferent to her visit.
That's one of the major problems with this country.... "indifference"

Zombrex

aDeener wrote: »

no "we" didn't, dermot macmurrough did

That is the point.

If Stinicker is going to invoke the sure they are all the same argument (referring to "the monachy" as some sort of unified consciousness spanning hundreds of years) when discussing the Queen why not invoke it for our own government and people.

ultain

IrishTonyO wrote: »

You are a bit behind the times I am afraid. The people of the south voted in a referendum and gave up our claim to the north, and think you will find the majority of people in south really couldn't care less

You hit the nail on the head..The majority of people in the south couldnt care a less!!!:(

getz

Stinicker wrote: »

The people of Ireland voted for the peace process which is to lead to the re-unification of Ireland through peaceful means. Northern Ireland is under British Rule and Queen Elizabeth is the British Head of State, she is the Monarch, the same Monarchy that raped, pillaged and destroyed Ireland from the 1300's up until 1920 and continues to mistreat our people in Northern Ireland to this day.

This is the bigoted Monarchy that has a rule which prevents Catholics from ever becoming a King or Queen of England. It is the same Monarchy that ordered the Irish Genocide of the 1840's and then tried to cover its history and explain it all away as a famine despite Ireland as a country growing far more food than was necessary to sustain its population. As our people lay dying in the ditches this Monarchy ordered the export of food out of Ireland. This Queen has no place on our Island and should not be welcomed here.

i dont know if to feel sad ,or sorry for you.

Judgement Day

Stinicker wrote: »

Keep telling yourself that, you can fly your Union Jack all you want but you have turned your back on your history and on your people.

The Queens Visit is not only a gargantuan waste of taxpayers money but it is also opening the door for Dublin City Centre to burn to the ground once again. The people of Ireland will not stand idly by and welcome this bigot into our country and Love Ulster will look like a mere pub brawl if she is to visit.

There can be accusations of scumbaggery but the working classes have not turned their backs on their history and on their roots and true Irish people will never forget the destruction the British monarchy has wrought on this country.

I rest my case for why the visit should not go ahead.

OhNoYouDidn't

nuac wrote: »

I support ths invitation to QE II

Because

1. The referenda on the GFA have settled the polical problem in the Nothe of Ireland and make it clear that any further changes there will be by consent.

2. The UK is a huge market for out exports and for tourism. A successful state visit would help with these and thus sustain employment here.

And what happens if it is unsuccessful?

OhNoYouDidn't

getz wrote: »

i dont know if to feel sad ,or sorry for you.

Regardless of the lack of polish on his opinion, it is an opinion that exists and exists in numbers in Ireland. To deny it is pointless.

There will be large protests against Mrs Winsors visit to Dublin. Deal with that reality and take it from there.

getz

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Regardless of the lack of polish on his opinion, it is an opinion that exists and exists in numbers in Ireland. To deny it is pointless.

There will be large protests against Mrs Winsors visit to Dublin. Deal with that reality and take it from there.

i agree there will be protests by the same sad people who always call for a united ireland, and then cannot understand why people in the north want nothing to do with them,all i can say is grow up and realize that over two million irish men and woman live in the UK who think differently and it is the irish goverment[on behalf of its people] who asked her to come.any sort of over the top protest would reflect [badly]on ireland all over the world ,and could set back the pease process years.

Denerick

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Regardless of the lack of polish on his opinion, it is an opinion that exists and exists in numbers in Ireland. To deny it is pointless.

There will be large protests against Mrs Winsors visit to Dublin. Deal with that reality and take it from there.

Of course there will be protests, but the obscuritan minority are not allowed to keep this country in the dark ages. If they manage to drag themselves out of their Mullingar pubs, they'll kick up a right storm by mutering '****ing disgrace' amongst themselves. Who knows, once the ally themselves with the scangers they might get a riot going. Really make their case look noble. God, how I'm sick of Irish patriotism.

Dyr

I think we've moved on as a nation and its time to put history behind us, which includes some peoples bizarre obsession with foreign royalty and self loathing.

So thanks but no thanks lizzie, some of us have moved right on and don't need you in our lives anymore.