RTE vs BBC

OPENROAD

nacho libre wrote: »

i was under the impression he had prior to the game in Paris last November when suddenly the Irish team had quality players after the game.

Open to correction but don't think this is the case, yes Dunphy has been critical of Irelands tactics but he has never come out and called players ordinary.

nacho libre

OPENROAD wrote: »

Open to correction but don't think this is the case, yes Dunphy has been critical of Irelands tactics but he has never come out and called players ordinary.

well not specific players, but i thought he has said on occasion that the team was limited. perhaps i'm mistaken though. Eamon if you're viewing this thread let us know;)

OPENROAD

nacho libre wrote: »

well not specific players, but i thought he has said on occasion that the team was limited. perhaps i'm mistaken though. Eamon if you're viewing this thread let us know;)

I reckon he is a regular poster

JPA

Just realise the "correct analysis" is probably somewhere between the 2 views. You'd need to watch neutral coverage to get decent analysis on England, RTE are not neutral about England.

Pepe LeFrits

lol, hard to believe anyone takes RTE's panel seriously or thinks they speak hard truths. They might not necessarily be lying but the stuff they come out with isn't the truth. They're like the drunken fool by the bar ranting and raving. Entertaining, but facts and reality have very little input into their coverage.

They're refreshing in the sense that they aren't nauseatingly positive propaganda machines like the BBC or Sky, but that's all. They're no purveyors of truth.

windsurfer99ie

JPA wrote: »

Just realise the "correct analysis" is probably somewhere between the 2 views. You'd need to watch neutral coverage to get decent analysis on England, RTE are not neutral about England.

That RTE Sport is anti-English is generally accepted isn't it ? Ryan Tubridy alluded to this in his radio show this morning when he said words to the effect of "We need England at the World Cup. If they weren't there who would we give out about ? England are our pantomime villians". He said all this with Dads Army or Colonel Bogey music playing in the background. I have no problem with this sort of stuff - as an England supporter this light-hearted satire adds to the occasion.

But what RTE Sports panel indulged in yesterday afternoon went way beyond this. Dunphy and co made a number of unfair and unbalanced comments including Dunphy referring to the England fans as "jingoistic" for singing "Rule Britannia". It is a patriotic song which celebrates Britain's fine tradition of independence - it does not matter if none of us like this song or indeed consider it inappropriate to the occasion - the England fans are entitled to sing it without being called jingoistic. I've no doubt that plenty of non-English people including Katherine Jones, Bryn Terfel (who sang it in a Welsh Rugby shirt), Dame Kiri etc would be as affronted as I was by this comment.

It is not acceptable for people to say that because the BBC and ITV are getting caught up in the euphoria of the moment (which will probably end on Sunday) that therefore makes it OK for Dunphy to racially abuse me. BBC and ITV are foreign stations, RTE is my State Broadcaster and I have no right of reply. There is a law in the country which protects me from bigots like him. The fact that nobody on that panel challenged his offensive comment highlights further problems. If Poland had qualified, none of that panel would have dared say similiar things about Poland.

I found it interesting that by the evening Dunphy had completely changed the tone of his comments, and was far more measured (and fair) in his assessment of England's performance. He did not dare repeat the "Rule Britannia" racist abuse. I suspect that an Editorial Meeting had warned him that they were potentially in legal difficulties.

everdead.ie

Had to look up jingoistic and came up with "fanatically patriotic" I imagine most people are fanatically patriotic about there countries and where they are from I wouldn't of thought of it as offensive unless it was the manner in which he said it?

Anyway I don't think that this panel is ever anything but honest about Ireland they constantly refer to Ireland as being limited to McShane being a limited player who shouldn't be playing etc etc they always have a go at trap for the way we play and for not having us play like we did against France. I don't think the panel in fairness know how not to be critical of a team even when Brazil play and win they give out about them not playing "samba" football.
I don't think it's an anti-English thing at all I think it's a personality thing that they have.:pac:

stovelid

everdead.ie wrote: »

Had to look up jingoistic and came up with "fanatically patriotic" I imagine most people are fanatically patriotic about there countries and where they are from I wouldn't of thought of it as offensive unless it was the manner in which he said it?

Jingoistic is universally accepted as a negative term.

everdead.ie

stovelid wrote: »

Jingoistic is universally accepted as a negative term.

Didn't know that thanks

stovelid

everdead.ie wrote: »

Didn't know that thanks

Aye, I've only ever heard it used in a negative sense: the darker side of patriotism, as it were.

I think a bit of ribbing and schadenfreude about our neighbours is good craic, but England fans singing their own anthem is hardly the onset of fascism.

OPENROAD

everdead.ie wrote: »

Had to look up jingoistic and came up with "fanatically patriotic" I imagine most people are fanatically patriotic about there countries and where they are from I wouldn't of thought of it as offensive unless it was the manner in which he said it?

Anyway I don't think that this panel is ever anything but honest about Ireland they constantly refer to Ireland as being limited to McShane being a limited player who shouldn't be playing etc etc they always have a go at trap for the way we play and for not having us play like we did against France. I don't think the panel in fairness know how not to be critical of a team even when Brazil play and win they give out about them not playing "samba" football.
I don't think it's an anti-English thing at all I think it's a personality thing that they have.:pac:

I don't agree going on past coverage, however I will be watching and listening carefully when the Euro qualifiers come on, don't expect to hear Irish players called "ordinary"

OPENROAD

stovelid wrote: »

Aye, I've only ever heard it used in a negative sense: the darker side of patriotism, as it were.

I think a bit of ribbing and schadenfreude about our neighbours is good craic, but England fans singing their own anthem is hardly the onset of fascism.

Unless it is the other way around i.e. would be very interested to see how people and the media here would react if BBC/SKY/ITV engaged in a bit of ribbing about the Irish team, to be honest the media reaction in general to England each tournament is just getting predictable and boring at this stage imo.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

stovelid wrote: »

World Cup Diary

Wake up.

Read The Sun.

Read The Star.

Watch Soccer AM.

Flick on Sky Sports news.

Get pissed off with the Brit triumphalism being constantly stuffed down my thread by the English media.

Finish watching Soccer AM.

Flick on Sky Sports again.

Read The Mirror.

Watch Football Factory again. Tell the cat to 'jog on'. The cahnt.

Put on Liverpool away shirt and head to the pub.

Complain at length to lad in Chelsea shirt about jingoistic British sports commentary.

Watch the England match on BBC.

Get annoyed at those **** going on about 1966. Do they ever stop?

Discuss our epic draw with the Brits 20 years ago with the lads for an hour or two.

Discuss our epic win over the Brits 22 years ago with the lads for an hour or two.

English pundits still droning on about 1966. Do they ever stop? ****.

Discuss how those cheating frog bastards stopped us getting to the semi-finals of this world cup for an hour or two.

Gerard sores.

Slag some English bastard in the pub who cheers Gerard's goal, the dirty scouse bastard.

USA score! Somebody spills beer on my Liverpool shirt. My Stevie G on the back now has a big stain on it. Fuck.

Go home.

Soccer AM isn't on during the summer.:P

everdead.ie

baz2009 wrote: »

Soccer AM isn't on during the summer.:P

obviously he tapped it :rolleyes:








:pac:

stovelid

OPENROAD wrote: »

Unless it is the other way around i.e. would be very interested to see how people and the media here would react if BBC/SKY/ITV engaged in a bit of ribbing about the Irish team, to be honest the media reaction in general to England each tournament is just getting predictable and boring at this stage imo.

The BBC panel (Hansen, I think) said something innocuous about Henry trying to win a handball against Uruguay: a joke along the lines of the referee must have an Irish ancestor and somebody I know was actually pissed off about it.

copacetic

OPENROAD wrote: »

I don't agree going on past coverage, however I will be watching and listening carefully when the Euro qualifiers come on, don't expect to hear Irish players called "ordinary"

you must be kidding, have you never watched them before? dunphy has called most players in the world and Ireland ordinary, brainless and liabilities in his time. The panel aren't biased against England, they hate pretty much everyone. Every team is crap and whoever the beat it's only because they were worse.

stovelid

baz2009 wrote: »

Soccer AM isn't on during the summer.:P

It's one of them satire yokes. Its not real.

OPENROAD

copacetic wrote: »

you must be kidding, have you never watched them before? dunphy has called most players in the world and Ireland ordinary, brainless and liabilities in his time. The panel aren't biased against England, they hate pretty much everyone. Every team is crap and whoever the beat it's only because they were worse.

I have honestly never heard Dunphy call an Irish player brainless, yes he has been very critical of managers but never called an Irish player brainless in fact he has hyped of certain Irish players

K-9

windsurfer99ie wrote: »

? Ryan Tubridy alluded to this in his radio show this morning when he said words to the effect of "We need England at the World Cup. If they weren't there who would we give out about ? England are our pantomime villians".

France.

Tbh, everybody thrives on it. On France I was meh!, enjoyed the craic on here and the posters obviously trying to wind each other up. Pleasant distraction to the usual England stuff. I had a soft spot for France from 82/86 days.

Tbh, France deserve every refereeing decision going, from the 82 S/F. What was the name of the Goalkeeper then? Shumacher. People wonder why some hated Michael Shumacher? Well there you are, Blame the German goalkeeper from 1982. Google it, it puts Henry in persective!

England, I just feel sorry for them this time. Can't even get the energy to get a contemptuous fist going. Must be reading too many West Brits on Boards.ie.

Me? I always loved Spain. The perennial under achievers. Michel, Butragueno, Torres, Villa!

seadnamac

The RTE panel are just as critical of any other team when they perform poorly or lower than expected and that includes Ireland. There is no bias or agenda anywhere and both Giles and Dunphy have said in the past that they like to see England do well as they have both made very good livings there.

Get over it lads.

OPENROAD

seadnamac wrote: »

The RTE panel are just as critical of any other team when they perform poorly or lower than expected and that includes Ireland. There is no bias or agenda anywhere and both Giles and Dunphy have said in the past that they like to see England do well as they have both made very good livings there.

Get over it lads.

John Giles still lives in England and has done most of his life, actually Giles is quite fair and I thought Irwin and Whelan were quite fair

No one is saying they are not critical of Ireland,but what I have yet to hear is them call specific Irish players ordinary, brainless etc..

Bodhisopha

OPENROAD wrote: »

John Giles still lives in England and has done most of his life, actually Giles is quite fair and I thought Irwin and Whelan were quite fair

No one is saying they are not critical of Ireland,but what I have yet to hear is them call specific Irish players ordinary, brainless etc..

Stop watching the Sky coverage of Ireland games then.

OPENROAD

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Stop watching the Sky coverage of Ireland games then.

I don't

Davidth88

Guys

I am English ( just to set my stall out )

I watched the first two games on RTE because I cannot bear the jingoistic ITV coverage ( and I use that word carefully ). I found the coverage pretty balanced , but then again England were so poor you could say anything almost !

I watched the BBC ( down at the pub ) for the third game . I found the coverage patriotic ( they are after all the National broadcaster for Britain of which England is still the majority ). A lot of it was tongue in cheek , for example Shearer saying things like ( and I am paraphasing from memory ) 'oh, now we have won I suppose we are world beaters ha ha ha '

If Dunphy really said that about English fans ( calling them Jingoistic ) then that's very poor indeed . I have seen some quotes from the RTE after the match on Weds , I thought they were pretty unbalanced ( but they could have been taken out of context ) .

I have watched a number of ' third party ' games , I have found the Beeb pretty balanced then as well , with very little of the patronising I have heard/seen before ie ' Oh they are such a brave little country blah blah blah '

I will not watch a game on ITV at all !

copacetic

OPENROAD wrote: »

I have honestly never heard Dunphy call an Irish player brainless, yes he has been very critical of managers but never called an Irish player brainless in fact he has hyped of certain Irish players

At the very least has called McGeady brainless and Hunt a liability.

Auvers

I think it boils down to basic entertainment which RTEs panel are the most entertaining

It certainly beats the British "banal\boring\safe" punditry hands down

I look foward to the half\full time when Brady,Souness,Dunphy are on the panel and with plenty of goading by Bill to try an rile the lads into saying something controversial

I reckon when those guys retire they will be sadly missed

seadnamac

OPENROAD wrote: »

John Giles still lives in England and has done most of his life, actually Giles is quite fair and I thought Irwin and Whelan were quite fair

No one is saying they are not critical of Ireland,but what I have yet to hear is them call specific Irish players ordinary, brainless etc..

Well then you obviously don't pay attention or you have Sky Sports on instead.

woodyg

copacetic wrote: »

At the very least has called McGeady brainless and Hunt a liability.

not to mention Andrews\McShane\Kilbane

but to be fair they all ways do praise the lads for putting in an effort, they understand there not gifted but never fail to put in a shift for the cause.

patmac

Andy Townsend said England were brilliant and he's Irish(ish) so that's good enough for me, so I am going to put a score on England to win the World Cup because of Andy's solid advice.(and the fact that I have already backed France and Italy to win, and I would have some consolation for not being able to watch Sky,BBC and ITV for the next 6 months if they by some miracle managed to win the thing).

PJTierney

Mega-bias from the English as usual

fryup

patmac wrote: »

Andy Townsend said England were brilliant and he's Irish(ish) so that's good enough for me, so I am going to put a score on England to win the World Cup because of Andy's solid advice

ya he's irish alright:rolleyes: he's about as irish as osama bin laden

and you can throw mark lawerson into that mix as well another plastic paddy

personally speaking i don't mind the bbc & itv getting behind england, but i just wish they'd bring a bit of reality into their punditry..they need an eamon dunphy type to stir things up and tell it like it is.

Royale with Cheese

I have no problem at all with BBC/ITV getting behind their team. I don't expect them to be impartial either. I do expect them as 'footballing experts' do have a bit of common sense and to be able to criticise what was largely another poor performance. They don't have to sit there for 10 minutes tearing the team to shreds, just an acknowledgement that they need to improve. Instead I listened to them go on and on and about how they were amazing and would now be a force to be reckoned with in this competition.

Some people don't seem to be able to separate that from just plain old fashioned England hating. As pundits the other night they were pathetic.

Fanny Cradock

patmac wrote: »

Andy Townsend said England were brilliant and he's Irish(ish) so that's good enough for me

Probably best to decide for yourself based on the performance, not what Townsend says.

marco_polo

OPENROAD wrote: »

John Giles still lives in England and has done most of his life, actually Giles is quite fair and I thought Irwin and Whelan were quite fair

No one is saying they are not critical of Ireland,but what I have yet to hear is them call specific Irish players ordinary, brainless etc..

Ask Glen Whelan or Keith Andrews.

Wolfe Tone

marco_polo wrote: »

Ask Glen Whelan or Keith Andrews.

McShane sure gets a regular bashing too.

AnCapaillMor

marco_polo wrote: »

Ask Glen Whelan or Keith Andrews.

Or Gibson, he gets a terrible going over.

patmac

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Probably best to decide for yourself based on the performance, not what Townsend says.

Read the small print, I think personally he is the worse pundit out there and about as Irish as the Queen. He also said that Ledley King's goal against Mexico was brilliant, so is prone to exagerrate when it comes to England.
I am backing England though just in case, as I have so far been so bad in this World Cup at predicting.

You will never get a Dunphy like pundit on English tv, Hansen tried it in the beginning but soon became as bland and as mainstream as the rest. Fergie won't talk to the BBC because someone once criticised him and everyone is afraid to open their mouth's since.

marco_polo

This game would be much harder if it was Irish players they have consistently praised .

Shay must be the only man I remember them never having a bad word for. And in the past couple of years perhaps Richard Dunne as well. Everyone else has got it with both barrells at some stage.

Mister men

LeeroyJones wrote: »

The thing with the BBC, or ITV+Sky for that matter, is that they are under instruction to play up England, or any British and on some occasions Irish teams.

The idea is to say what their viewers want to hear and hence keep them happy and keep watching their channel. I suppose it comes down to the competition.

In RTE they are told to say what they actually think of the match-one of the reasons Souness comes over here. It just so happens that the mains lads have a bit of a miserable outlook.

I've heard people say that RTE are anti-English which is just rubbish. When Ireland do well, Dunphy and the boys generally focus on the negatives too.

Bang on the money

leninbenjamin

patmac wrote: »

Fergie won't talk to the BBC because someone once criticised him and everyone is afraid to open their mouth's since.

Not just that, remember they really pissed off the FA because of severe criticism of the England national team (around the time of McClaren I think). I don't know how true this is, but it was said to be a factor in the decision to award ITV the FA cup rights for 2008. BBC's analysis has been notably blander since, especially in relation to the England team.

It's a shame tbh, I actually think the likes of Dixon and Hansen are decent pundits when they are allowed to speak their minds.

20goto10

LeeroyJones wrote: »

The thing with the BBC, or ITV+Sky for that matter, is that they are under instruction to play up England, or any British and on some occasions Irish teams.

The idea is to say what their viewers want to hear and hence keep them happy and keep watching their channel. I suppose it comes down to the competition.

In RTE they are told to say what they actually think of the match-one of the reasons Souness comes over here. It just so happens that the mains lads have a bit of a miserable outlook.

I've heard people say that RTE are anti-English which is just rubbish. When Ireland do well, Dunphy and the boys generally focus on the negatives too.

This can be proven if you look at Souness analysis during the champions league. Not sure if he is still double jobbing but he used to do analysis for rte and sky at one stage. One night he's on RTE talking about how Man Utd and English football are in decline, the next he's on Sky talking about how they are going to win the competition!

Either he's a sheep and is just going along with what everyone else is saying, or else he's being told to hype it up on Sky.

It's certainly not down to Irish bitterness. Hamann also said England are not in good shape While Ossie said that the England team is in decline (and the Italian) because the influx of foreign players means the English lads don't get a chance at the big time. Pretty spot on on both counts if you ask me.

Coillte_Bhoy

OPENROAD wrote: »

I would love to see the Irish media(leaving out Eamon Dunphy) being just as critical towards the Irish team as they are against England.

You will hear Dunphy labeling certain English players as just ordinary, will he say the same for certain Irish players? i.e. call them ordinary?

Are you for real?? How can you come out with such bullsh1t? Have you ever actually watched him analysing an Irish game?

LowOdour

jimmy magee just said 'spread-eagle' during the ivory coast match...thats what makes rte great!

mink_man

sick of john giles, he sits there laid back in his seat and criticises players all day....just because he played in his day he feels "oh I was a great player and I have the experience how the game should be played"

he makes stupid statistical errors which i can't remember now....

he's always goin on about how in his day the game was played...

i remember him sayin such and such wasn't a great player because he didn't go from box to box...

then dunphy...he's funny to watch but he's wrong....

many a time he criticised ronaldo wrongly when he was delivering the goods..

he said back in 2004 that Ireland should take a note out of greeces book...

yet he criticises ireland for playing the same system....plonker!

souness is the only one who talks sense....

whelan....just likes to say what giles and dunphy would like to hear...

bill o herlihy, sick of him too...all he does is give quotes that are from a different opinion to the panel...

i.e the first germany match he gave the quote from philip lahm "this is the most talented bunch of players ive ever played with"...

of course the panel disagreed....darragh maloney is the man....knows his stuff and seems to have a general interest in the game and can be funny at times too adding in his own comments, unlike bill who is all scripted!

Diabhal Beag

I only watch BBC coverage over RTE for HD. It makes a big difference to me and I can make me own mind up without needing Giles feigning any knowledge of Nilmar.

dreamers75

excellent space invaders thingie on now on RTE.


good compilation

OPENROAD

marco_polo wrote: »

Ask Glen Whelan or Keith Andrews.

never heard them called brainless.

OPENROAD

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Not just that, remember they really pissed off the FA because of severe criticism of the England national team (around the time of McClaren I think). I don't know how true this is, but it was said to be a factor in the decision to award ITV the FA cup rights for 2008. BBC's analysis has been notably blander since, especially in relation to the England team.

It's a shame tbh, I actually think the likes of Dixon and Hansen are decent pundits when they are allowed to speak their minds.

:eek::eek::eek:

OPENROAD

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Are you for real?? How can you come out with such bullsh1t? Have you ever actually watched him analysing an Irish game?

Who has he called an ordinary player and brainless then?

I am not saying he is not critical of the Irish team though it does tend to be against the manager and FAI as opposed to individual players.

Arnold Layne

patmac wrote: »

Fergie won't talk to the BBC because someone once criticised him and everyone is afraid to open their mouth's since.

I think that was more do with the Panorama program about football agents and their dodgy deals, one of his sons was investigated in it