Why do Americans want to be Irish?

Killer Pigeon

Because Americans have no culture.

owenc

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

i was watching wife swap last week (the girlfriends idea, not mine) and there was an american bint that loved her irish roots, she was embarrasing. she was showing the crew around the house at the start and showed them a failte sign, she said to them 'this means welcome and is pronounced felt'. i shuddered

Yeah and the funny thing is their family have been their 400 years, i mean if i started doing scottish things i would look really stupid and feel like an idiot so why do they do it.

owenc

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Because Americans have no culture.

Yes they do native americans.

fontanalis

Does anyone think this might be down to the irish people themsleves that emigrated in the first place? Go to any of the major cities and you'll see irish areas that look like they were dropped in from ireland so it may be down to Irish people instilling into their children where they're from and it gets passed down the generations. And it's no more embarassing than some Irish people claiming JFK was Irish.

danbohan

fontanalis wrote: »

Does anyone think this might be down to the irish people themsleves that emigrated in the first place? Go to any of the major cities and you'll see irish areas that look like they were dropped in from ireland so it may be down to Irish people instilling into their children where they're from and it gets passed down the generations. And it's no more embarassing than some Irish people claiming JFK was Irish.

true
why would anybody have a problem with it ?

The_Kew_Tour

Lets just go to war with the Americans is what I say

Oh wait a minute.

bonerm

adrian280582 wrote: »

Lets just go to war with the Americans is what I say

You don't go to war with America. America goes to war with you. That's why they have a $680billion "defence" budget.

The_Kew_Tour

bonerm wrote: »

You don't go to war with America. America goes to war with you. That's why they have a $680billion "defence" budget.

about same amount we are in debt.

BumbleB

adrian280582 wrote: »

Lets just go to war with the Americans is what I say

Oh wait a minute.

With bilhooks and supersoakers?.

fontanalis

danbohan wrote: »

true
why would anybody have a problem with it ?

Because alot of the time the reaction to Americans being interested in their Irish roots is laughed off as stupid Americans where the issue arises with irish people in the US.

Overheal

owenc wrote: »

and apparently germans are the most common ancestry to have their, but i don't see many claiming to have german ancestry.

Because you're not german so there would be no point in having that conversation with you?

"Oh you're Irish?"

"Yes"

"Oh wow. I have German ancestry."

"..."

"..."

"Cool story, bro."

Pauleta

I think its because America was founded on immigration (Yes i know of the native americans ) That everyone in the country wants to have some retention of where their family originated from but all in all they are American like all the different groups in the USA. Although we dont really see it as much in Australia as far as i know.

southsiderosie

owenc wrote: »

Yes because when you talk to them about the troubles they blame the unionists and praise the ira!:mad:

A lot of the way Irish-Americans see Ireland is shaped by the fact that the last big wave of migration to the U.S. took place when the national question dominated Irish politics. So someone like my mother grew up hearing stories about the English from their (very republican) grandparents, and their ideas about Irish politics and culture are rooted in the early decades of the 20th century.

As for claiming Irish identity, it's pretty common in the US for people to reference where their ancestors are from. Like another poster said, being Irish often helped with getting jobs, especially in construction, the fire department or the police department. Also, even if you didn't self-identify as such, people's names and Catholicism usually marked them as Irish, who were generally seen as a "lesser" ethnic group in the US until the mid 20th century. So there were both community and social reasons why Irish identity in particular has remained so strong in the US. On the other hand, because of WWI & WWII, German-Americans played down their ethnic background; before the wars, German was widely spoken in the US, especially in the Midwest, and German-language schools and newspapers were common.

orourkeda

To claim the social welfare

deisedude

They don't all want to be Irish. They tell Germans they have German heritage, slovaks they have sloakian heritage, Italians they have Italian heritage. We just think we are special but in reality we are not

Bottle_of_Smoke

White Americans have to put up with the whole slavery inherited guilt bullsh*t.

Ireland didn't colonise anyone in the last 500 years. So being Irish is a bit of a get out.

brummytom

I'm from an Irish background - my family have only been English since the 1950s.

I know I'm not American, but I don't see the problem with anyone who has a background from a particular culture declaring that fact.

I'd never describe myself as Irish, I do hate (non-Irish) people that do that: "Heeey, I'm Irish!".. 'No you're not'; but I've been asked many times if I'm Irish, I prefer to just reply "I'm English, from Irish stock"

Bottle_of_Smoke

brummytom wrote: »

I'm from an Irish background - my family have only been English since the 1950s.

I know I'm not American, but I don't see the problem with anyone who has a background from a particular culture declaring that fact.

I'd never describe myself as Irish, I do hate (non-Irish) people that do that: "Heeey, I'm Irish!".. 'No you're not'; but I've been asked many times if I'm Irish, I prefer to just reply "I'm English, from Irish stock"

In America when someone says 'I'm Irish\Italian\Lebanese etc' they're talking ethnicity rather than nationality. Its like they're saying 'I'm obviously American but from an Irish/whatever background'

Diving Board

Probably for similar reasons that so many Irish want to be American, listen to Ryan Tubridy for an example.

moonpurple

WindSock wrote: »

Whatever...Dudess has the painters in!

finally cracked it

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=has+the+painters+in
:pac:

but how dd you know?

owenc

Overheal wrote: »

Because you're not german so there would be no point in having that conversation with you?

"Oh you're Irish?"

"Yes"

"Oh wow. I have German ancestry."

"..."

"..."

"Cool story, bro."

No because it seems odd that its the Germans that have the most ancestry, to me i would've expected it to be the british or the Irish because they both went over in two whole lots, but the germans didn't do anything so i don't know why theres so many of them , it isn't a race you'd expect to be the most in the usa.

owenc

southsiderosie wrote: »

A lot of the way Irish-Americans see Ireland is shaped by the fact that the last big wave of migration to the U.S. took place when the national question dominated Irish politics. So someone like my mother grew up hearing stories about the English from their (very republican) grandparents, and their ideas about Irish politics and culture are rooted in the early decades of the 20th century.

As for claiming Irish identity, it's pretty common in the US for people to reference where their ancestors are from. Like another poster said, being Irish often helped with getting jobs, especially in construction, the fire department or the police department. Also, even if you didn't self-identify as such, people's names and Catholicism usually marked them as Irish, who were generally seen as a "lesser" ethnic group in the US until the mid 20th century. So there were both community and social reasons why Irish identity in particular has remained so strong in the US. On the other hand, because of WWI & WWII, German-Americans played down their ethnic background; before the wars, German was widely spoken in the US, especially in the Midwest, and German-language schools and newspapers were common.

So your saying that the republican culture went off to america with them and stayed there?? My granny is like that, (on my mothers side) so that must be true, sometimes she really annoys me.:mad:

CreepingDeath

Well apparently humans started off in Africa, so are we African-Irish ?

No, there has to be a line where the original culture was lost and a new one formed.
I think the Irish influence in Irish-Americans gets diluted after a single generation, diluted much like the homeopathy potions until nothing really remains.

owenc

deisedude wrote: »

They don't all want to be Irish. They tell Germans they have German heritage, slovaks they have sloakian heritage, Italians they have Italian heritage. We just think we are special but in reality we are not

Thats what i was saying earlier, about them saying whoever they are talking to and to do it some day.

owenc

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

White Americans have to put up with the whole slavery inherited guilt bullsh*t.

Ireland didn't colonise anyone in the last 500 years. So being Irish is a bit of a get out.

Now they know what its like when they blame unionists for the english. just saying...

owenc

brummytom wrote: »

I'm from an Irish background - my family have only been English since the 1950s.

I know I'm not American, but I don't see the problem with anyone who has a background from a particular culture declaring that fact.

I'd never describe myself as Irish, I do hate (non-Irish) people that do that: "Heeey, I'm Irish!".. 'No you're not'; but I've been asked many times if I'm Irish, I prefer to just reply "I'm English, from Irish stock"

Yes but you've got irish descent so you can say that you are english- irish thats what i do, when someone chats about family.

southsiderosie

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

White Americans have to put up with the whole slavery inherited guilt bullsh*t.

Ireland didn't colonise anyone in the last 500 years. So being Irish is a bit of a get out.

Em, Irish in the US weren't historically the most progressive people on earth. Irish in Chicago and Boston (Southie in particular) were notoriously racist.

Herb Powell

southsiderosie wrote: »

Em, Irish in the US weren't historically the most progressive people on earth. Irish in Chicago and Boston (Southie in particular) were notoriously racist.

they had gangs too

Bottle_of_Smoke

southsiderosie wrote: »

Em, Irish in the US weren't historically the most progressive people on earth. Irish in Chicago and Boston (Southie in particular) were notoriously racist.

That's not really what I was saying.

This site explains it better, it's satire but a lot of it is on the ball:

Most of the time, white people consider celebrations of European heritage to be racist unless they omit large swathes of the 16th through 20th centuries. But since the Irish never engaged in colonialism and were actually oppressed it is considered acceptable and encouraged to celebrate their ancestry. For this reason, 100% of white people are proud to claim that they are somewhat Irish.

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/03/16/89-saint-patricks-day/

iMax

Because of this:

Overheal

owenc wrote: »

No because it seems odd that its the Germans that have the most ancestry, to me i would've expected it to be the british or the Irish because they both went over in two whole lots, but the germans didn't do anything so i don't know why theres so many of them , it isn't a race you'd expect to be the most in the usa.

Here's the actual ethnical breakdown based on census data:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maps_of_American_ancestries

See also Irish Ancestry distribution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Irish1346.gif

And German Distribution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:German1346.gif

Which Im sure when you take into account tourism destinations, will perhaps explain it somewhat.

And Nazis, of course. You know you were thinking it.

owenc

Overheal wrote: »

Here's the actual ethnical breakdown based on census data:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maps_of_American_ancestries

See also Irish Ancestry distribution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Irish1346.gif

And German Distribution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:German1346.gif

Which Im sure when you take into account tourism destinations, will perhaps explain it somewhat.

And Nazis, of course. You know you were thinking it.

Hmmm how can all them states be german when germans didn't do anything and they never had any influx of immigrants to the usa.. i just don't get that. Plus wouldn't that not mean the german population would be smaller, because i've been to the daykotas and montana and they were very desserted and the places were english people are, are VERY populated.

Overheal

owenc wrote: »

Yes my great great cousin in america calls himself scotch irish and is obsessed with scotland.:rolleyes: But at the same time supports celtic and converted to catholic!:eek: He even set up his own club... i'm embaressed.

Scotch-Irish Ancestry distribution.

Overheal

owenc wrote: »

Hmmm how can all them states be german when germans didn't do anything and they never had any influx of immigrants to the usa.. i just don't get that. Plus wouldn't that not mean the german population would be smaller, because i've been to the daykotas and montana and they were very desserted and the places were english people are, are VERY populated.

Didnt do anything that you know of. Didnt have any influx that you are aware of.

I really would not be jumping to those conclusions.

If you're terribly curious about German-American ancestry, you can always do the research.

owenc

Overheal wrote: »

Scotch-Irish Ancestry distribution.

Now theres not very many of them so i don't expect them to be the highest, but they are in very odd places.

owenc

Ha!! I checked it out on Yahoo answers in the geology area and they say that, the german census includes other european countries of germanice heritage, so in this case it is not all german, i knew they couldn't be that big!!

Overheal

owenc wrote: »

Ha!! I checked it out on Yahoo answers in the geology area and they say that, the german census includes other european countries of germanice heritage, so in this case it is not all german, i knew they couldn't be that big!!

Cool Story Bro.

Except the data I provided is not based in any way on the German Census data. It was compiled from the United States Federal Census of 2000.

:rolleyes:

owenc

Overheal wrote: »

Cool Story Bro.

Except the data I provided is not based in any way on the German Census data. It was compiled from the United States Federal Census of 2000.

:rolleyes:

Yea the german-american census in the united states.

Overheal

So you're trying to say because some randomers on Yahoo (...) told you otherwise, ~50 million americans do not have german descendancy?

I dont see why that is so hard to believe. Theres an estimated 36m irish americans, for example. And germany itself has a population of 80m compared to Ireland's 6m.

owenc

Overheal wrote: »

So you're trying to say because some randomers on Yahoo (...) told you otherwise, ~50 million americans do not have german descendancy?

I dont see why that is so hard to believe. Theres an estimated 36m irish americans, for example. And germany itself has a population of 80m compared to Ireland's 6m.

Yes but they are telling the truth they are geologists they aren't going to lie. They copied a link from some census site which said that other countries were included even some scandinavian places.

Overheal

Speaking of links....

owenc

Overheal wrote: »

Speaking of links....

No it was pasted.

Overheal

Okay, don't link to your yahoo thing then...

Its not relevant anyway; You don't see a lot of people claim german ancestry because theres not as many around where you're traveling. As to why there are so many of them, you could argue its fudged numbers, idc, or you could peg it to the pursuit of religious freedom and all that hip hop.

I imagine a lot of American tourists to Germany have descendancy.

But I hope I answered your original questions.

southsiderosie

"Germans didn't do anything". What? Germans were one of the biggest waves of immigrants to the US; as the Ellis Island foundation notes, in 1890, there were as many Germans in New York as there were in Hamburg. A lot of them ended up in the Upper Midwest because they arrived as the frontiers were opening, and were able to obtain parcels of land (once the US government kicked the Native Americans out).

Making a historical comparison for who counts as "German" is complicated because when many people emigrated, borders were still being redrawn in Central Europe. But the historical record is quite clear when it comes to emigration numbers, claimed ancestry, and the prevalence of German language and culture in certain enclaves of the US. Clearly anyone who questions the German presence in America has never been to Wisconsin. (And to bring it back to the OP again, most German-Americans weren't chest-thumping nationalists from 1914 - 1945; i.e. a whole generation grew up without their ethnic background being emphasized. Irish-Americans didn't have two world wars to be ashamed about).

Uriel.

Let's jot forget poor Annie Moore all of just 15 years

Feeona

I have great time for Americans. Their education system was about twenty five years ahead of Ireland's before the t'internet came along and gave us a kick up the ar*e.
I've always found Americans, on a one to one basis, to be extremely generous and appreciative of other cultures, always eager to learn about the country they're in. Whether it sticks or not, I don't know
I was working with Americans when George Bush was re-elected in 2004, and the slagging they got about Bush and America in general was unmerciful! I was impressed by their mild, neutral responses, never rising to the bait. As a result, the people who were doing the slagging looked like total idiots. If an Amercian started throwing his weight around saying that the Irish are stupid for x,y,z, we Irish wouldn't be so mild!
U S A, U S A!

mindydawne

Overheal wrote: »

So you're trying to say because some randomers on Yahoo (...) told you otherwise, ~50 million americans do not have german descendancy?

I dont see why that is so hard to believe. Theres an estimated 36m irish americans, for example. And germany itself has a population of 80m compared to Ireland's 6m.

I'm American, and from my experience, there are a lot more German decendants in America. aka most of the people I knew/worked with/ever spoken about this were from German heritage. Yeah, sure... there are a lot of people claiming Irish ancestry- and they are REALLY proud and vocal about it. The people who claim something like 1/8 on their mothers side are a bit ridiculous, but well... there's a real longing for your roots kind of thing when your family decended from another country. I wouldn't say it's Americans wanting to be Irish, it's more Americans identifying with their ancestors homeland. It's a bit different when you know your family lived in the same country generation after generation. I imagine in a few hundred years or so, most Americans will just consider themselves... American.

southsiderosie

owenc wrote: »

So your saying that the republican culture went off to america with them and stayed there?? My granny is like that, (on my mothers side) so that must be true, sometimes she really annoys me.:mad:

Why is it annoying?

wonton

mindydawne wrote: »

I'm American, and from my experience, there are a lot more German decendants in America. aka most of the people I knew/worked with/ever spoken about this were from German heritage. Yeah, sure... there are a lot of people claiming Irish ancestry- and they are REALLY proud and vocal about it. The people who claim something like 1/8 on their mothers side are a bit ridiculous, but well... there's a real longing for your roots kind of thing when your family decended from another country. I wouldn't say it's Americans wanting to be Irish, it's more Americans identifying with their ancestors homeland. It's a bit different when you know your family lived in the same country generation after generation. I imagine in a few hundred years or so, most Americans will just consider themselves... American.

ye german is the single biggest ancestry race in america, in fact about 25 percent of the union american were german. its alot to do with the world wars and the general anti german attitude afterwards.

and paddys day has helped alot, and i suppose halloween which is actually irish aswel

Augmerson

Feeona wrote: »

I have great time for Americans. Their education system was about twenty five years ahead of Ireland's before the t'internet came along and gave us a kick up the ar*e.