Property tax

Bailey05

Idbatterim wrote: »

well if the water tax and property tax, mean that the PS wont suffer anymore cuts in pay until 2014, isnt it worth it?

What do you mean by PS?

D3PO

Bailey05 wrote: »

What do you mean by PS?

public sector.

facksake

I'd say he means Public Sector, he just didn't give it too much thought - Private Sector

Bailey05

D3PO wrote: »

public sector.

Don't think its a good idea to start the old Public V's private sector argument here as your comment seems to say you are looking out for the public sector only

D3PO

Bailey05 wrote: »

Don't think its a good idea to start the old Public V's private sector argument here as your comment seems to say you are looking out for the public sector only

eh what are you on about.

you asked what PS stood for and i answered it. I didnt make the original post. maybe you should read before replying ? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

now the comment about 2014 and its implied reference to the croke park agreement was obvious to most, but clearly you didnt get it.

Bailey05

D3PO wrote: »

eh what are you on about.

you asked what PS stood for and i answered it. I didnt make the original post. maybe you should read before replying ? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

now the comment about 2014 and its implied reference to the croke park agreement was obvious to most, but clearly you didnt get it.

Apologies, I meant to reference the initial comment. No harm intended, surprised by the verbals back. Ah well, we are all stressed

D3PO

Bailey05 wrote: »

Apologies, I meant to reference the initial comment. No harm intended, surprised by the verbals back. Ah well, we are all stressed

appologies it seems every time i respond on here recently im getting attacked.

bryaner

Are the Government not at their normal trick, drip feeding bad news to the people over the year and come budget time they don't implement property tax for example, and then everyone feels that the budget aint that bad at all..

Bailey05

bryaner wrote: »

Are the Government not at their normal trick, drip feeding bad news to the people over the year and come budget time the don't implement property tax for example, and then everyone feels that the budget aint that bad at all..

At the moment, I hope so.

D3PO

bryaner wrote: »

Are the Government not at their normal trick, drip feeding bad news to the people over the year and come budget time the don't implement property tax for example, and then everyone feels that the budget aint that bad at all..

quite probably.

bryaner

That's what I'm hoping too.

facksake

I've heard that's exactly what they're doing.

Also there was someone on the Matt Cooper show, I can't remember who, that said bringing in a property tax is inevitable, and the Government are simply putting it out there but won't implement it. They'll wait for Fine Gael to get into government and they'll have to bring it in, which in turn will help Fianna Fail's chances of getting back into government due to the expected backlash from the public

ilovesleep

I would love to know what the average house price is in countries that have a property tax introduced.
I remember a few years ago watching househunters in the sun and houses for sale in spain were around 120000.
Remember watching something a few months back of another househunting programme and a huge property in the uk - it was massive - i forget the price but i thought wow! that wouldnt even buy you a four bedroom house here and you get all that for that price.
Something tells me anyway that property is cheaper in other countries. I dont know why people are comparing ireland to other countries. You would be lucky to get a decent house here in a nice area for 400000. Us irish will be paying through the roof just to live and if property tax comes in which by the looks of it, it will I will never be able to afford a house.

worded

ilovesleep wrote: »

I would love to know what the average house price is in countries that have a property tax introduced.
I remember a few years ago watching househunters in the sun and houses for sale in spain were around 120000.
Remember watching something a few months back of another househunting programme and a huge property in the uk - it was massive - i forget the price but i thought wow! that wouldnt even buy you a four bedroom house here and you get all that for that price.
Something tells me anyway that property is cheaper in other countries. I dont know why people are comparing ireland to other countries. You would be lucky to get a decent house here in a nice area for 400000. Us irish will be paying through the roof just to live and if property tax comes in which by the looks of it, it will I will never be able to afford a house.

My folks heard we have the most expensive food in Europe as well.
Im renting and Im thinking will houses ever be affordable here myself.

quozl

worded wrote: »

My folks heard we have the most expensive food in Europe as well.
Im renting and Im thinking will houses ever be affordable here myself.

These two things are related you know.

Major cost of eating out is staff. Staff wages have to be enough to cover their living costs. Staff housing costs is their single largest expensve.

Glenalla

To get back to the point, my parents bought a site in N Ireland out in the country in the 60's, everyone said they were mad as no-one wanted to live there and why would they buy such a site. They built a family home for us and we had a great childhood between the mountains and sea. My father passed away in the mid 80;s leaving my mother to fend for us. In the late 80,s and 90,s it started to become a popular place to live and property prices soared, you could literally name your price, the down side was so did the property rates due on each house. My mother is retired and living on a small pension and due to the constant increase in property rates she now has to sell up and move. The rates on the property are now £4000.00stg per annum(they would be a lot less if her house was 1/2 a mile away with no view!) . She is not alone in this situation, many of her friends are in the same boat. If a property tax is introduced here the government need to be very careful about how it is implemented as many older people may find themselves in a similar situation which is grossly unfair.

facksake

In Northern Ireland there's actually a thing called 'deferment relief'. This means that OAP's do not have to pay the property tax, but rather their payments are accumulated and the total amount is deducted from the future sale price of that house and is payable to the relevant authority by the vendor. So there shouldn't be an issue in that particular case. I could be wrong about this but it was something that was told to me by one of the people who was actually an advisor in the introduction of the new property tax system in Northern Ireland, i'm just not sure if it's been implemented or is going to be implemented, but either way there shouldn't be an issue.

Your point Glenalla is a very good one though. One of the main criticisms of the Swedish property tax system was exactly what you've outlined above. Many people had homes in less valuable areas with low incomes. Suddenly over 10 - 20 years those areas became more and more popular which inevitably brought a rise in property prices. These people were forced to move away from those areas and into a new less valuable area. The Swedish property tax system has since been abolished and replaced with a different rates system.

This is why I think income needs to be taken into account so that extreme circumstances such as this can be avoided. If this is taken into account as well as other criteria then there's nothing wrong with a property tax system in my opinion

iguana

D3PO wrote: »

I genuinely will refuse to pay this to the point they can lock me up.

Would you really go to jail for it? I mean think that through fully, you could lose your job as you wouldn't be available to work. Lose your home if you can no longer afford mortgage payments while unemployed. Have difficulty finding another job due to high unemployment and the fact that you'd been in jail. I assume when you talk about being locked up you mean for contempt of court after refusal to pay after being ordered? Do you know if that would stay on your record? Would it mean you'd have difficulty travelling to some countries in the future? And at the end of the day it would be most likely that you would still be left owing the monies so it would all have been for nothing.

Maybe you would think through all of the consequences and think, yup I'd still not pay even if it has the potential to really damage my future. But do you think most people would? In my experience they wouldn't, most people talk a really good fight, but when the time comes to take any action that can have lasting repercussions, they baulk. And that means that the consequences for those who carry through with their original intentions are even more severe.

I'm all for direct action when you truly believe in something. I've risked arrest quite a few times in the past. But I'm actually extremely thankful that I've never been arrested. The stress of just being a witness in a court-case was enormous, I'm glad I've never ended up being the one in the dock and I'd think very long and hard before I ever put myself into that position again.

dbourne

Step 1: Abolish Stamp Duty

Step 2: Institute Property tax to replace stamp duty on all homes purchased in 2011. This should help to stimulate the property market as well.

Step 3: Phase in property tax on all existing homes and give tax breaks for those who have recently purchased a house. Start with homes valued over €500,000 and then work down. This should be done in 2011 - 2012.

Step 4: Don't worry be happy!

Jesh1

Jeez....This Government is really taking the Piss

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/property-tax-how-will-it-work-2241335.html

Bands
It is understood that the Government is looking at applying a tax rate of 0.3pc to houses in different valuation bands, which was one of two options presented by the commission. This would mean that houses valued up to €150,000 would generate a tax of €225 a year.
Houses valued at between €150,001 and €300,000 would be charged €675.
This is the valuation band that applies to the majority of houses, according to housing statistics.
For houses valued between €300,001 and €450,000, the annual tax would be €1,125, while a a tax of €1,575 would apply to houses valued at between €450,001 and €600,000. Houses worth between €1m and €1.5m would be taxed at €3,750.

Glenalla

These rates dont seem too bad however beware this is only the thin end of the wedge and it will end up a very thick wedge!!! you can count on that

Jesh1

I suppose the one saving grace is, "It also recommended that house-buyers who have already paid stamp duty will be exempt from the property tax on their main residence for seven years."

The tax will be easier to stomach for the masses.

cyclopath2001

Jesh1 wrote: »

For houses valued between €300,001 and €450,000, the annual tax would be €1,125, while a a tax of €1,575 would apply to houses valued at between €450,001 and €600,000. Houses worth between €1m and €1.5m would be taxed at €3,750.

So, for a Dublin-based OAP whose house has increased in value while his income has not, the tax would be equal to 6 weeks pension?

There will be plenty of incentive for people to keep their valuations low.

The property tax needs to hit rural dwellers hard so as to encourage more urban living. Exemptions only for those living and working on their own farms.

AARRRRGH

One of the things Lenihan was getting at yesterday was the removal of rent relief.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/budget-to-focus-on-cuts-over-new-taxes-2262712.html

Its much easier to abolish the rent relief tax payers get for renting. Then look at property tax afterwards.

People who dont pay tax, wouldnt get it anyway.

It does not have to be calculated nor enforced. They just have to stop the credits. Its so easy to do.

They do the same with mortgage interest relief. Bobs your uncle.

Job done, coffers increased.

Now compare this to the mechanics of applying, collecting and enforcing a property tax.

Nobody could be against this idea, unless they want more civil servants, more tax payers money spent on applying, collecting and enforcing a property tax. Its a quick win with little or no cost in its implementation.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66980657&posted=1#post66980657

tHE vAGGABOND

So, for a Dublin-based OAP whose house has increased in value while his income has not, the tax would be equal to 6 weeks pension?

Think about what your saying, and its scare mongering like that which has people worried.

No government, no matter how stupid or evil is going to make something like this apply to people who don't pay tax [the very low paid and pensioners].

While Im no fan of this new tax, I see that "something" must be done - but the scare mongering we are seeing on the issue [like the above statement] annoys the crap out of me.

[TBH, for the older readers, it reminds me of the stuff we saw around the divorce and abortion referrenda late 80's/early 90's, where we were told that if passed every single person in ireland would have having walk in abortions and not one marriage would survive, everyone would get divorced!]