HELP - Buyer claiming no phone in box!

ttm

JustinOval wrote: »

Every time I see that pic I think the seal has been opened...

Just reading back over the tread and I was wondering wtf you were talking about there, so I took a really good hard look at the picture again and while I'm not sure about the seal the sissor cut slit doesn't look long enough to get a box that size out of the envelope? Measure the height and depth of the box and compare that length to the cut? If thats the case how did the buyer get at the box to photograph it?

I know that proves nothing (the slit could go down the back where we can't see it) and won't do a thing for the OP at this stage but for me does add to the strangeness of the case

peanuthead

ttm wrote: »

Just reading back over the tread and I was wondering wtf you were talking about there, so I took a really good hard look at the picture again and while I'm not sure about the seal the sissor cut slit doesn't look long enough to get a box that size out of the envelope? Measure the height and depth of the box and compare that length to the cut? If thats the case how did the buyer get at the box to photograph it?

I know that proves nothing (the slit could go down the back where we can't see it) and won't do a thing for the OP at this stage but for me does add to the strangeness of the case

Yes and can we see a picture of the back of the envelope? How do we know it wasn't opened and re-sealed from the back? The whole back of the envelope could be missing from all we know from that picture.

jor el

peanuthead wrote: »

Yes and can we see a picture of the back of the envelope? How do we know it wasn't opened and re-sealed from the back? The whole back of the envelope could be missing from all we know from that picture.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66593734&postcount=36
The dispute is not about whether the phone was stolen in the post, it alleges that the seller, and OP, didn't send it in the first place. The recipient has said the packaging was not opened before receiving it, in order to put the claim in with Paypal against the seller. If they said it was opened, then Paypal may not have gone in the buyer's favour so quickly.

The packaging is now being returned to the seller.

This buyer knows exactly what they're doing; How to get a free iPhone in 3 easy steps.

Max Power1

jor el wrote: »

This buyer knows exactly what they're doing; How to get a free iPhone in 3 easy steps.

...aided and abetted by the buyer's accomplice in fraud, paypal!

freeze4real

if he seller sent the iphone and the buyer didnt recieve it and the package wasnt open, then i think its an inside job.

someone from the post office will have opened it removed the iphone and put the seal back.

thats makes perfet sense.

someone from the post office wil have the right skill and equipments to pull it off.

Max Power1

freeze4real wrote: »

if he seller sent the iphone and the buyer didnt recieve it and the package wasnt open, then i think its an inside job.

someone from the post office the buyer will have opened it removed the iphone and put the seal back.

thats makes perfet sense.

.

fyp

delllat

jor el wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66593734&postcount=36


This buyer knows exactly what they're doing; How to get a free iPhone in 3 easy steps.

now ,so does everybody who reads this thread :rolleyes:

Elessar

freeze4real wrote: »

if he seller sent the iphone and the buyer didnt recieve it and the package wasnt open, then i think its an inside job.

someone from the post office will have opened it removed the iphone and put the seal back.

thats makes perfet sense.

someone from the post office wil have the right skill and equipments to pull it off.

Not possible. With the packaging I used you have to physically tear it open or cut it to get inside. If someone tore it open and resealed it would be VERY noticable.

jor el

freeze4real wrote: »

someone from the post office will have opened it removed the iphone and put the seal back.

thats makes perfet sense.

No it doesn't. It makes perfect sense that the buyer removed the phone, took a picture of everything with the phone missing, and put a claim in against the seller. You can't re-seal that envelope without leaving evidence of opening it.

delllat wrote: »

now ,so does everybody who reads this thread :rolleyes:

You don't have to read this thread to know how to scam a seller using Paypal.

ttm

If we are to believe the OP (Sorry OP one of my annoying faults I question everything till I run out of questions) then the photo is really a red herring but still part of the plot. What really is the point of taking a photo of an empty box?

I only mentioned the photo as for me it adds some credibility to the OP's story if only because of the way it was so nicely staged yet proves nothing. I think the photo only comes into it as the OP asked the question did the package look like it had been opened? To stick with jor el's "How to get a free iPhone in 3 easy steps" the buyer had to keep this a SNAD dispute so to prove the package hadn't been damaged they laid it out all neat and took a photo.

So while jor el states "The dispute is not about whether the phone was stolen in the post" is quite true, I think the picture was taken to prove that the phone wasn't stolen in the post to make this a clear and simple SNAD dispute.

btw if you were opening a package and carefully resealing it to steal an iPhone wouldn't you take the charger at the same time?

peanuthead

jor el wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66593734&postcount=36
The dispute is not about whether the phone was stolen in the post, it alleges that the seller, and OP, didn't send it in the first place. The recipient has said the packaging was not opened before receiving it, in order to put the claim in with Paypal against the seller. If they said it was opened, then Paypal may not have gone in the buyer's favour so quickly.

The packaging is now being returned to the seller.

This buyer knows exactly what they're doing; How to get a free iPhone in 3 easy steps.

I'm not trying to say it was stolen in the post.

Rather my point is that the buyers picture makes it look like she carefully opened it from the side with a scissors and took everything out to only find an empty box. What I'm suggesting is that she could have torn the whole back off the other side of the envelope, taken it out, gotten rid of the phone, cut the envelope down the side and placed it that way to make it look better.

My brother always video records himself opening packages he receives from ebay. I used to think he was mental, now I think he's pretty smart.

jor el

Your brother is mental , he has no need to video opening the package as Paypal don't require any evidence from the buyer. The buyer is given all the protection, and only needs to claim that the item was not received. It's the seller that should video the packaging of the item, all the way to the post office. Even if they did do this, it's unlikely that Paypal would pay any attention to it anyway, and would still find in favour of the buyer.

Buyers have all the power, except when there is a deliberate scam on the part of the seller, then the power shifts. Basically, the scammers have all the power, and they know it. Genuine buyers, and genuine sellers, will invariably lose out. The phrase; Nice guys come last comes to mind.

Abelloid

Your brother needs to video himself packing and posting, not receiving and opening.

Nody

JustinOval wrote: »

Your brother needs to video himself packing and posting, not receiving and opening.

And that would still not be accepted as evidence by Paypal so waste of space, time and money...

Abelloid

Nody wrote: »

And that would still not be accepted as evidence by Paypal so waste of space, time and money...

Did you miss the ?

Caliden

Bob Z wrote: »

Op is the phone registered in your name? If so you could phone the network and get it turned off. They can do this if a phone is stolen. You could also email the buyer and tell her this. If she was playing a fast one(although she could be genuine) it will all be for nothing. She might even drop her claim if she knows you will do this.

Will blocking the phone, also block it in other countries?
I had mine stolen before and took great satisfaction in blocking it, knowing the thief could never use it

Elessar

Caliden wrote: »

Will blocking the phone, also block it in other countries?
I had mine stolen before and took great satisfaction in blocking it, knowing the thief could never use it

I looked into this extensively and nope, it won't. You can get it blocked here but that's it, it can still be used outside Ireland. The iphone was unlocked and jailbroken aswell (originally locked to O2), so she got everything. :mad:

I'm hoping she updates it in iTunes and restores the carrier lock (and is too stupid to figure out how to use the SHSH file saved on Cydia).

Headshot

is there a way to protect a seller from this happening?

im selling an expensive phone on ebay and the ops story is getting me worried

Max Power1

Headshot wrote: »

is there a way to protect a seller from this happening?

im selling an expensive phone on ebay and the ops story is getting me worried

No way of stopping it unless paypal clamp down on fraudulent buyers. Just pray you arent stung i guess.

jor el

Have the delivery as meet up, and accept cash payment only.

To be honest, I'd never sell anything on eBay unless you didn't care, or it was of sufficiently low value that it's not going to have any impact on you. Expensive items like laptops, phones, etc, should never be sold on eBay, unless you take the payment in cash.

Bob Z

Max Power1 wrote: »

No way of stopping it unless paypal clamp down on fraudulent buyers. Just pray you arent stung i guess.

They can't clamp down situations like without creating creating fraudelent sellers

jor el wrote: »

Have the delivery as meet up, and accept cash payment only.

To be honest, I'd never sell anything on eBay unless you didn't care, or it was of sufficiently low value that it's not going to have any impact on you. Expensive items like laptops, phones, etc, should never be sold on eBay, unless you take the payment in cash.

if you do meet up in person make sure you take cash and not paypal or cheque. Getting them to sign something might be a good idea too

ttm

Headshot wrote: »

is there a way to protect a seller from this happening?

im selling an expensive phone on ebay and the ops story is getting me worried

If you already have an item listed and it sells you could always check the buying feedback of the seller (sorry I ment) buyer and if they have bought similar goods before email some of the sellers and ask if there were any problems BEFORE you post it. Better to get a negative than lose out out a few hundred euro. Otherwise as you can see by my thanks I agree with jor el on his reply.

jor el

Bob Z wrote: »

Getting them to sign something might be a good idea too

Not necessary. If you have the cash, you have the cash and there's nothing the buyer can do, apart from negative feedback. The buyer signing something would be useless to you anyway.

Bob Z

jor el wrote: »

Not necessary. If you have the cash, you have the cash and there's nothing the buyer can do, apart from negative feedback. The buyer signing something would be useless to you anyway.

Maybe but the buyer wouldnt know that

peanuthead

Elessar wrote: »

I looked into this extensively and nope, it won't. You can get it blocked here but that's it, it can still be used outside Ireland. The iphone was unlocked and jailbroken aswell (originally locked to O2), so she got everything. :mad:

I'm hoping she updates it in iTunes and restores the carrier lock (and is too stupid to figure out how to use the SHSH file saved on Cydia).

I'm telling you now OP you have her address, I would pay her a visit if it were me. I know it will end up costing you more but I would hate the thought of someone getting one over on me like that.

Really sorry that this happened to you, and I'm wondering if there is anything you can do about it that won't cost you the earth?

Bob Z

peanuthead wrote: »

I'm telling you now OP you have her address, I would pay her a visit if it were me. I know it will end up costing you more but I would hate the thought of someone getting one over on me like that.

Really sorry that this happened to you, and I'm wondering if there is anything you can do about it that won't cost you the earth?

Pay her a visit? What does that mean? It might not even been her that stole it

peanuthead

Bob Z wrote: »

Pay her a visit? What does that mean?

It means that I would go to Germany to visit her. :rolleyes:

If I was dealing with that kind of money I would want to speak to the person directly. I can assure you that 5 minutes of talking to her would soon clear up any questions as to who stole it.

jor el

peanuthead wrote: »

I can assure you that 5 minutes of talking to her would soon clear up any questions as to who stole it.

Not if you're speaking English and she's speaking German it won't. Besides, that won't get him anywhere, except Germany, and a door closed in his face.

Bob Z

peanuthead wrote: »

It means that I would go to Germany to visit her. :rolleyes:

If I was dealing with that kind of money I would want to speak to the person directly. I can assure you that 5 minutes of talking to her would soon clear up any questions as to who stole it.

I know what it means but i wondered what you mean by this 'visit' ask questions? or threaten her?

delllat

Bob Z wrote: »

I know what it means but i wondered what you mean by this 'visit' ask questions? or threaten her?

do what he said and you could lose your liberty as well as losing your phone

you CANNOT intimidate anyone at their house in most euro countries without risking criminal charges

peanuthead

Bob Z wrote: »

I know what it means but i wondered what you mean by this 'visit' ask questions? or threaten her?

delllat wrote: »

do what he said and you could lose your liberty as well as losing your phone

you CANNOT intimidate anyone at their house in most euro countries without risking criminal charges

Christ almighty, so sinister!! I did not mean threaten her!! But the funny thing about that second comment is that as was said before, it's the honest person that loses out in all of this. Someone can steal a phone from you - get the money back and when you approach them to try and figure it all out you are arrested.

I suppose I am getting a little ahead of myself and maybe I wouldn't actually go over if it did end up happening to me, but I am a very honest person and although I've never met Elessar, I hate when this kind of s(h)it happens to people.

freeze4real

jor el wrote: »

No it doesn't. It makes perfect sense that the buyer removed the phone, took a picture of everything with the phone missing, and put a claim in against the seller. You can't re-seal that envelope without leaving evidence of opening it.



You don't have to read this thread to know how to scam a seller using Paypal.

what about open the package and reseal it with a differnt envelope.

ttm

freeze4real wrote: »

what about open the package and reseal it with a differnt envelope.

follow the plot and take notes if necessary

OP said he wrote the address directly on the envelope.

I suspect the reason the address is blacked out in the picture is that he sencibly didn't want anyone to see what the address was.

Head The Wall

OP could keep a check on the users activity. See does she sell anything worthwhile and if she does buy it and return the favour to her.

I think it's obvious that the OP believes the buyer is being dishonest so all this discussion about opened envelopes etc is a moot point.

Caliden

Has anyone dealt with this in the past?
How successful will the chargeback be?

Max Power1

Caliden wrote: »

Has anyone dealt with this in the past?
How successful will the chargeback be?

Which one - the buyer's through paypal, or the OP's?

The buyer always wins with paypal, but regarding the OP, who does he chargeback?

Nody

Max Power1 wrote: »

The buyer always wins with paypal, but regarding the OP, who does he chargeback?

OP can get it charged back from Paypal; Paypal in turn will terminate the account and refuse to open a new one for that CC (this is gathered from other people going through with it; usually takes a few months).

Nothingbetter2d

Elessar wrote: »

I looked into this extensively and nope, it won't. You can get it blocked here but that's it,

phone all the german mobile phone network's customer service and report it stolen and have them block it

if u have the box the serial number will be on it

make up some bull**** excuse u was on holidays there when i got knicked

i had a phone kicked in spain a few years back and it got my spanish friend to phone the spanish networks and she got that phone blocked

Elessar

Well I got the box back - she didn't even include the packaging. Just the f*cking iphone box with the plug! This is really, really getting on my nerves. The cheek of her.

Head The Wall

Elessar wrote: »

Well I got the box back - she didn't even include the packaging. Just the f*cking iphone box with the plug! This is really, really getting on my nerves. The cheek of her.

Why don't you follow the advice about getting it blacklisted in Germany.

What did you think was going to happen about the box coming back, it was hardly going to contain the phone was it.

Get it blacklisted over there and then let the user know about it. It's all you can do at this stage

Elessar

No, I was hoping to get the packaging to see what she did to it. I don't speak german and can't for the life of me navigate the german phone companies websites.

Head The Wall

Elessar wrote: »

No, I was hoping to get the packaging to see what she did to it. I don't speak german and can't for the life of me navigate the german phone companies websites.

It's irrelevant what she did to it. I'm guessing she opened it, took out the phone and then photographed a (shock horror) empty box and packaging.

Who says you have to be able to speak german to get the job done. Ask friends, use the internet. get onto your own phone provider and explain the situation to them and see can they do anything etc, etc. Do a bit of groundwork yourself

Although if you thought getting the box back would fix anything you are fooling yourself. She wouldn't need the plug either, no good in Germany

MarkR

Elessar wrote: »

Well I got the box back - she didn't even include the packaging. Just the f*cking iphone box with the plug! This is really, really getting on my nerves. The cheek of her.

You should take a pic and show that she didn't send the packaging. She didn't send what she was supposed to send you.

Elessar

MarkR wrote: »

You should take a pic and show that she didn't send the packaging. She didn't send what she was supposed to send you.

There is no way to tell paypal about this, the process is entirely closed. I could send them an email but I'll just get a generic "paypal has made a decision" response.

I'm just off the phone to the bank, chargeback declined because I agreed to paypals terms and conditions. I don't think they even read the letter I sent. Now both paypal and AIB have ignored my side of the story and the evidence I have. Next stop, solicitor.

jor el

You should try the small claims court before getting a solicitor involved. It'll only cost you €15 to find out, and the decision will be made by a judge. No solicitor needed.

delllat

even if u win this case weigh up the hours and the effort/stress its going to take to get a result against the value or a potential gain


also keep in mind that if aib had overturned paypals decision paypal would have blacklisted you for life ,thus ending your ebay career if u had any plans to use it ever again

Bob Z

delllat wrote: »

also keep in mind that if aib had overturned paypals decision paypal would have blacklisted you for life ,thus ending your ebay career if u had any plans to use it ever again

I don't think the op at this stage cares about having an eBay career

Head The Wall

delllat wrote: »

even if u win this case weigh up the hours and the effort/stress its going to take to get a result against the value or a potential gain


also keep in mind that if aib had overturned paypals decision paypal would have blacklisted you for life ,thus ending your ebay career if u had any plans to use it ever again

Move house and get a credit card with another bank. That should get you a new paypal account. It's not that difficult.

Max Power1

Bob Z wrote: »

I don't think the op at this stage cares about having an eBay career

i think he meant the career/life of his using ebay to buyer or sell!

delllat

Head The Wall wrote: »

Move house and get a credit card with another bank. That should get you a new paypal account. It's not that difficult.

that post is so stupid for so many reasons im not going into