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Change in House Rules

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  • 25-06-2010 4:56pm
    #1
    smoggy11
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭


    Hi there,

    I received a letter there today from the new management company in my building, it basically said that as I have a dog in the apartment I am in breach of house rules and need to sort it out.

    The management company before this one allowed residents to have pets unless they are causing a disturbance. The letter said that our dog was causing a disturbance, but, after speaking to our neighbours, they said that the dog was not disturbing them.

    I'm just wondering what the best course of action is for this, as I am not prepared to give up the dog. There are other residents in the building who have dogs.

    I'm seriously upset about this and I dont want to have to give my dog away.


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    #2
    Jo King
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Jo King


    There is most unlikely to be a new management company. Much more likely there has been a change of management agent. What does your lease say about pets?


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    #3
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Unless you signed a new lease, stick to the old one and refuse to sign a new one. Honestly though, does your dog bark or anything of the likes???


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    #4
    Kimia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,897 ✭✭✭Kimia


    Ignore them unless as Iamxavier says you have signed a new lease to say no pets.


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    #5
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    It really comes down to what is written in your Lease Contract. Also, it's the directors of the management company who decide how the management agent enforces the rules.

    You should take a discussion with the directors of the management company, but if your Lease Contract says no pets, then they have the right to enforce that.


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    #6
    smoggy11
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭smoggy11


    The lease said that pets were allowed providing they weren't a disturbance. Honestly the dog is no bother to anyone, she isn't a problem. The other dogs in the building are noisier!

    Thanks for the replys, its been a great help.


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    #7
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    as said review your lease agreement not sure if your renting or own. if your renting its possible that there is something in the lease your landlord has which may take precedence over anything you have written into your lease

    on a seperate not and not trying to have a go here but my view is an apartment really is no place for a dog. Dogs need plenty of excercise and keeping them cooped up in an apartment and having no garden for them really isnt fair on them


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    #8
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Dogs have no place in a high density development. End of. We are in a mixed development and only the deeds/leases for houses allow dogs. BIG MISTAKE. I live 25 doors down from the only house in the development with dogs and they bother me big time. Sound bounces around the development due to the courtyard type design and I think units on our side hear them louder than the next door neighbours.

    Apartment owners/tenants in our complex have had to re-house their dogs as the MA enforces the policy but out of 100 units we have about 12 houses and only one with dogs and their sound bounces around the windows of maybe 60 units.

    OP it may not be your next door neighbours..there are others in the complex too. I also doubt that you are the only person who has been asked to re-house their dog.


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    #9
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,916 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Dogs have no place in a high density development. End of.

    It's not "end of" if the OP's lease says dogs are permitted. Dogs live in apartments all over the world. Plenty of people in actual high density areas like Tokyo and Manhattan have dogs in their apartments and have done for generations. If the housing was badly designed as regards to sound then that's a problem that goes far, far beyond dog ownership.


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    #10
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    smoggy11 wrote: »
    I'm seriously upset about this and I dont want to have to give my dog away.
    smoggy11 wrote: »
    The lease said that pets were allowed providing they weren't a disturbance.
    The lease allows it, so fúck them. Sounds like some busy body is out to cause hassle. As someone has said: don't sign a new lease.

    Another take on it is that they're trying to get rid of one particular person with a very noisy dog, and are sending the notice to all apartments so that they are not discriminating.


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    #11
    pooch90
    Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭pooch90


    smoggy11 wrote: »
    Hi there,

    I received a letter there today from the new management company in my building, it basically said that as I have a dog in the apartment I am in breach of house rules and need to sort it out.

    The management company before this one allowed residents to have pets unless they are causing a disturbance. The letter said that our dog was causing a disturbance, but, after speaking to our neighbours, they said that the dog was not disturbing them.

    I'm just wondering what the best course of action is for this, as I am not prepared to give up the dog. There are other residents in the building who have dogs.

    I'm seriously upset about this and I dont want to have to give my dog away.
    Send them a letter back with two words on it.... "F*** **u!"


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    #12
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    the_syco wrote: »
    The lease allows it, so fúck them. Sounds like some busy body is out to cause hassle. As someone has said: don't sign a new lease.

    Another take on it is that they're trying to get rid of one particular person with a very noisy dog, and are sending the notice to all apartments so that they are not discriminating.

    The OP hasn't clarified whether the lease is in fact a rental lease or the lease they signed when they "purchased" the apartment. If it's a purchase lease it's legally binding and the MC can take action against you.

    If the lease says animals that cause a disturbance are not permitted, and a disturbance has been reported then the OP has no comeback.


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    #13
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,916 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    athtrasna wrote: »
    If the lease says animals that cause a disturbance are not permitted, and a disturbance has been reported then the OP has no comeback.

    Of course he does. The onus is on the reporter of the disturbance to prove that there actually is a real disturbance otherwise anyone could report anyone for breaching any lease term. And just being able to occasionally hear a dog wouldn't count as a disturbance. Account has to be taken of what noise you would justifiably expect to hear in a particular area and if the reported noise exceeds that.


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    #14
    ztoical
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Dogs have no place in a high density development. .

    As iguana said cities like New York have loads of dog owners living in much higher density developments then you find anywhere in Ireland. I lived in New York for years and loads of people in my building had dogs and I never had any issues with them and I've never had any of my friends in New York complain about issues with dogs - roaches and rats maybe but never dogs. Dogs are great company and security for some, I know I feel better knowing my mum who lives on her own has her dog.

    If your going to say dogs have no place you might as well say children have no place as surely it's not right to keep kids in an apartment with no were to play outside?


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    #15
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    ztoical wrote: »
    As iguana said cities like New York have loads of dog owners living in much higher density developments then you find anywhere in Ireland. I lived in New York for years and loads of people in my building had dogs and I never had any issues with them and I've never had any of my friends in New York complain about issues with dogs - roaches and rats maybe but never dogs.
    iguana wrote: »
    It's not "end of" if the OP's lease says dogs are permitted. Dogs live in apartments all over the world. Plenty of people in actual high density areas like Tokyo and Manhattan have dogs in their apartments and have done for generations. If the housing was badly designed as regards to sound then that's a problem that goes far, far beyond dog ownership.

    Cities like New York and Tokyo have apartments with proper soundproofing and thick walls. Plasterboard and hollow blocks does not block even the sound of people turning on lights in neighbouring apartments in some builds.

    The OP has said the lease permits animals that do not cause a disturbance. If a noise complaint has been made against their dog then they are causing a disturbance and retaining the dog puts the OP in breach of their lease.


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    #16
    ztoical
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Cities like New York and Tokyo have apartments with proper soundproofing and thick walls. Plasterboard and hollow blocks does not block even the sound of people turning on lights in neighbouring apartments in some builds.

    Have you ever lived in a city like New York or London cus I've lived in both and I can say they can't sound proof apartments any better then they do in Ireland. Most flats in London are converted houses and there's usually feck all soundproofing between floors. Had plenty of noise issues when I lived in New York just none of them were related to dogs/pets [never stayed at boyfriends flat in queens cus the people above him were always shagging and we could hear everything :(]. Spent time in Japan and they don't use plasterboard or hollow blocks, it's a very different way of living there with communal baths and alot of shared spaces used by everyone in the area including pets.


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    #17
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    iguana wrote: »
    Of course he does. The onus is on the reporter of the disturbance to prove that there actually is a real disturbance otherwise anyone could report anyone for breaching any lease term. And just being able to occasionally hear a dog wouldn't count as a disturbance. Account has to be taken of what noise you would justifiably expect to hear in a particular area and if the reported noise exceeds that.

    I disagree. A dog barking that can be heard from outside the apartment would constitute a disturbance IMO. I would imagine the MA would want dates and times before taking actual legal action but it would be difficult for the OP to prove their dog wasn't causing a disturbance.


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    #18
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,916 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    athtrasna wrote: »
    I would imagine the MA would want dates and times before taking actual legal action but it would be difficult for the OP to prove their dog wasn't causing a disturbance.

    Which is exactly why the onus is not on them to prove their innocence but on the people reporting the problem to prove there is a problem. Anyone who lives among other people has to expect to hear a certain amount from their neighbours. Depending on how loud it is hearing a dog bark may not be considered any more of a disturbance than hearing the traffic outside, your neighbours chatting in the garden, children playing on the green, gates swinging open and shut.

    Unless you live in the middle of your very own 14 acres you will hear outside noise caused by others. It's how loud that noise is within the home of the person being disturbed that decides if it is a problem or not and that is decided by a third party not the people on either side of the dispute. And that noise has to be proven before any legal action can be taken.


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    #19
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    I guess it goes down to to the MA and MC of the OP's development. I think the thread title is wrong, there has been no change in the rules, potentially in the interpretation.

    An apartment is no place for a dog, both for the dog and for the neighbours. I feel strongly about this, others clearly disagree.

    We don't yet have a culture of high density living in Ireland, it's all new, but it's clear that some people don't realise how much noise from their unit impacts on others. No resident has the right to disturb other residents' peaceful enjoyment of their property. This applies to disturbance from humans and animals.


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    #20
    ztoical
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    athtrasna wrote: »
    I guess it goes down to to the MA and MC of the OP's development. I think the thread title is wrong, there has been no change in the rules, potentially in the interpretation.

    An apartment is no place for a dog, both for the dog and for the neighbours. I feel strongly about this, others clearly disagree.

    We don't yet have a culture of high density living in Ireland, it's all new, but it's clear that some people don't realise how much noise from their unit impacts on others. No resident has the right to disturb other residents' peaceful enjoyment of their property. This applies to disturbance from humans and animals.

    Well trained dogs are perfectly fine to keep in flats just like well mannered kids/teens/people etc...If someone isn't taking care of the dog it can become upset and disturb people but the same can be said for people raising kids in flats and letting them run riot. Not everyone can afford to live in a house, older people living on their own can't manage a large house, public transport is crap so people need to live closer to their work rather then pay the expense of owning a car....why shouldn't they be allowed to have a dog if they take proper care of it? Would you make a blind person move out of a flat cus it's no place for their seeing eye dog? Or the little old lady who has her dog as a companion/security? Rather then removing family pets, people should be ordered to to pay for their dogs to get training and if they refuse then remove it. I mean if kids are causing issues they aren't removed straight away from the parents, they are at least given the chance to fix the issue.


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    #21
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,387 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Can we stick to helping the OP?

    OP, it would be useful if you could use a sound activated recorder to see if your dog is making noise when you aren't there and get the management agent to confirm what time the complaint was made and see if they tally.


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    #22
    bernyh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭bernyh


    Dogs in apartments are a no no as far as I am concerned... u are living in a closed environment with shared hallways?? Dogs don't know how to wipe their feet when they come indoors and the smell of wet dog is disgusting (I actually am a dog lover btw, but theres a time and place for everything).

    Having a dog in an apartment is just being inconsiderate imho.


    The rules were stated to us by our solicitor and we had to sign to say we wouldn't have any pets in the apartment when we bought it, as far as I was lead to believe that was standard procedure for management companies.

    As to no better sound proofing than Ireland, I challeng the poster to come and live a weekend at my apt and tell me the same again.


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