If Germany won WW II ...............

NoseyMike2010

What do you think the world would be like today? I have always wondered this. Would there be Chavs? Would we all be speaking German? What other races would Hitler have tried to rid of?

ejmaztec

NoseyMike2010 wrote: »

What do you think the world would be like today? I have always wondered this. Would there be Chavs? Would we all be speaking German? What other races would Hitler have tried to rid of?

Military conscription would probably have nipped potential chavs in the bud.

mike65

Threads asking if Germany won ww2 would be banned! :mad:

getz

in german archives from the last war,stated hitler was intending to split europe into different zones,hitler himself intended to have direct control of both britain and ireland

Artur.PL

mike65 wrote: »

Threads asking if Germany won ww2 would be banned! :mad:

this is alternative history, very popular. Threads like this one(i.e.) should be banned.

One thing is for sure. Slavs would be annihilated.

NoseyMike2010

Yes. Surely you must have wondered what the World would be like if he had won. Would the euro even exist? Would the Deutsch mark be the biggest currency in the world. Would we all even be speaking German!!!

Pauleta

We wouldnt be speaking German although im sure we would all have a good grasp of the language how we could understand what Der Fuhrer is telling us from the capital in Berlin.

Would there be chavs? Not freaking hope

All in all Hitler was mental and Germany could never win the war for the reason that Hitler would of wanted to invade everywhere until the whole world was his. If Hitler was assassinated, i think it could of been a different story.

mr j tayto

Our buses and trains would all run on time.!:D:D

smcgiff

We'd all have parents embarrassed about their photos sporting the one time popular Hitler Moustache - twas only huge in the 70s.

Also - Ireland would be united ... possibly independent when the Germans realised even they couldn't get our trains to run on time.

Instead of fading pics of Pope <insert holy guy here> on Ireland's walls we'd have faded pictures of Der Fuhrer.

We'd have the sexiest military uniform in the world.

xflyer

When you talk about Nazi Germany winning the war people tend to think we would all be occupied and speaking German. In fact even during the war countries that were aligned with Germany were not occupied. Countries like Romania, Italy, Hungary. That would have remained the case. We would all be in one form or another be vassals of Germany included in the greater Reich but not occupied. Countries like France, Holland etc would probably have German troops based there but would be independant and allied with Germany. Indeed if you look at Vichy France they were halfway there during the war. We and the British would probably be left pretty much alone. Hitler in reality never wanted to fight the British and he had little interest in Ireland except as a back door to Britain. Southern Europe would be left to the Italian fascists for the most part. The Germans were really sucked into that area by the blundering activities of Mussolini.

Other countries and peoples would not be so lucky, Poland would simply be part of Germany and not many Poles would be left to complain. The same goes for many other eastern European countries. That was where Hitler's real interests lay. Germay itself would be a sprawling giant and a superpower but mainly to the east having eliminated the Soviet Union.

However this all supposes that Germany stayed the course after Hitler died. He was a sick man in '45 anyway. How long he would have survived after that nobody knows. The Nazis were actually quite fragmented other than in their loyalty to Hitler. He liked to keep it that way. So they were constantly undermining each other and working to their own agenda often in an attempt to please Hitler.

Once Hitler died the Wehrmacht were released from their oath of loyalty to him. They might have turned on the SS or vice versa. There was no obvious natural successor to Hitler, no charismatic figure to take up his role. There could easily be a huge civil war in Germany as rival Nazis attempted to take control. How that might have turned out is anybody's guess. The third reich may simply have fallen apart with Germany returning to it's status pre 1871 with a multitude of independant states each ruled by whoever won the local battle.

So Germany may have won the war but lost the peace once Hitler was out of the picture. He really held together the unity of Germany during his time. It was devotion and loyalty to him and his vision that kept the Germans going.

Dr Strange

Pauleta wrote: »

We wouldnt be speaking German although im sure we would all have a good grasp of the language how we could understand what Der Fuhrer is telling us from the capital in Berlin..

It wouldn't have been Berlin anymore. It would have been called Germania rebuilt and designed by Albert Speer.

NoseyMike2010

Preusse wrote: »

It wouldn't have been Berlin anymore. It would have been called Germania rebuilt and designed by Albert Speer.

Doubt it. I think we'd all be German speaking!

Dr Strange

NoseyMike2010 wrote: »

Doubt it. I think we'd all be German speaking!

No, we were talking about the capital, Berlin. Hitler's plan was a rebuilding of the capital and a re-naming of it into GERMANIA.

hinault

xflyer wrote: »

.

However this all supposes that Germany stayed the course after Hitler died. He was a sick man in '45 anyway. How long he would have survived after that nobody knows. The Nazis were actually quite fragmented other than in their loyalty to Hitler. He liked to keep it that way. So they were constantly undermining each other and working to their own agenda often in an attempt to please Hitler.

Once Hitler died the Wehrmacht were released from their oath of loyalty to him. They might have turned on the SS or vice versa. There was no obvious natural successor to Hitler, no charismatic figure to take up his role. There could easily be a huge civil war in Germany as rival Nazis attempted to take control. How that might have turned out is anybody's guess. The third reich may simply have fallen apart with Germany returning to it's status pre 1871 with a multitude of independant states each ruled by whoever won the local battle.

So Germany may have won the war but lost the peace once Hitler was out of the picture. He really held together the unity of Germany during his time. It was devotion and loyalty to him and his vision that kept the Germans going.

You raise some very interesting points here.
Hitler was very ill by 1945.
His illness may have been worsened after the failed July 1944 plot.

In terms of his succession, Rudolf Hess who had been Hitlers designated second in command until he absconded would have been executed presumably.

Who would have succeeded Hitler? Boorman, Goering?
And what processes would the Fuhrer put in place to ensure his legacy, if victory had been achieved?
All interesting questions.

As regards Ireland, I imagine that in victory Ireland would have been considered an extension of Britain.
Hitler, it is claimed, wanted to form a pact with Britain so that together they could take on the world.

Mahatma coat

WEll We know from Historical records presented at Nuremberg that Hitler was aware of the ReichMarshals Drug Dependencies and excesses, so its facertain that despite his bluster Goering would not have been Hitlers Successor.

Had the thing gone a little better towards the end then the one to watch would have been Himmler, the SS woould still have been a formidable force and fiercly loyal.

fortunatley for the rest of the world Himmler was a snivelling coward who took his own life.

filthymcnasty

hinault wrote: »

You raise some very interesting points here.
Hitler was very ill by 1945.
His illness may have been worsened after the failed July 1944 plot.

In terms of his succession, Rudolf Hess who had been Hitlers designated second in command until he absconded would have been executed presumably.

Who would have succeeded Hitler? Boorman, Goering?
And what processes would the Fuhrer put in place to ensure his legacy, if victory had been achieved?
All interesting questions.

As regards Ireland, I imagine that in victory Ireland would have been considered an extension of Britain.
Hitler, it is claimed, wanted to form a pact with Britain so that together they could take on the world.

A comparison could be life in the old Iron Curtain Eastern Europe under Russia. Under Nazism we could expect something similar, for example puppet governments were put in place in each country.
The local language was maintained, but in most countries Russian had to be learned as as second language such as in the old East Germany and Czech Republic ( for example Angela Merkel who grew up in the old communist east germany is fluent Russian but limited English) whereas in West Germany English was learned as a a second language.
We would also presumably have zero US investment and have a trade embargo, so we could look to the likes of Cuba to have an idea of what life is like without American technology, unless of course if Germany had advanced at a similar rate.

HavingCrack

Apparently Hitler had plans to turn Ireland into a giant labour/ concentration camp for political dissidents/communists/anyone he decided to take a dislike to. Hitlers Irish Movies on RTE said something about it if I remember, has anyone else heard of this??

I presume Christian religions would have been nearly eradicated under German control if you go by Nazi activites leading up to and during the war.

Empire o de Sun

filthymcnasty wrote: »

We would also presumably have zero US investment and have a trade embargo, so we could look to the likes of Cuba to have an idea of what life is like without American technology, unless of course if Germany had advanced at a similar rate.

Actually it is reckoned that the US, Britain etc gained billions of dollars in wealth from the intellectual property rights they obtained from germany at the end of the war.

One example is Rocket Technology

Tabnabs

Actually, if anyone has read 'The Fatherland' novel it gives a fairly scary and grim opinion on what it may have been like.

Empire o de Sun

That was made to a movie and is on youtube

HavingCrack

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

That was made to a movie and is on youtube

The plot of the film is so far removed from that of the book that its slightly ridiculous. I'd recommend the book over the film any day.

Redlion

Thought this might be noteworthy for anyone interested in some light fictional reading, try 'the man in the high castle' by Philip K. Dick. The book deals with several characters who must exeprience a world where the Axis defeat the Allies

GhostInTheRuins

Preusse wrote: »

It wouldn't have been Berlin anymore. It would have been called Germania rebuilt and designed by Albert Speer.

It's really interesting stuff that. I was reading this page about this very subject just the other day. - http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2009/02/totalitarian-architecture-of-third.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSrfp_uJiik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSrfp_uJiik

SEANYBOY1

filthymcnasty wrote: »

We would also presumably have zero US investment and have a trade embargo, so we could look to the likes of Cuba to have an idea of what life is like without American technology, unless of course if Germany had advanced at a similar rate.

German technology was superior in nearly ever field.
First to develop military submarines.
First to develop cruise missiles.
First to develop balistic missiles.
First to develop jet aircraft.
First to develop the machine gun.
First to develop night vision scopes.
First to develop radio guided bombs.
Had the best tanks.
The US took Germays rocket engineer Von Braun amd his team and they developed the Apollo 11 mission to the moon even though some of them were directly involved in forced labour camps during the manufature of the V2 rocket.

The US Stealth Bomber the one like a bat wing was designed on a German plane which was stored in a hanger in the states which was shipped over after the war and was stumbled upon in the 1980's, they even knew how to develop planes that could evade radar.

If Hitler wasnt such a lunatic they would have without doubt won WW11

d22ontour

Financial war, yeah they were winners as they bankroll the EU now.The eastern front led to their their demise of course, but hey lets all believe the yanks and brits won that war....If they never went east and actually invaded Britain when they had superiority regardless of what western history tries to tell us then we would live in a different world. A better world ? Who knows ...Can it be any worse than what we have now though ?

cyrusdvirus

SEANYBOY1 wrote: »

The US Stealth Bomber the one like a bat wing was designed on a German plane which was stored in a hanger in the states which was shipped over after the war and was stumbled upon in the 1980's, they even knew how to develop planes that could evade radar.

If Hitler wasnt such a lunatic they would have without doubt won WW11

Didn't Northrop build 2 flying wings in the late 1940's? Possibly with your 'bat wing' plane as inspiration (i think you are referring to the Ho-229??)

Not too sure if 'stumbled across' is the right phrase here. There were numerous examples of both Propeller driven and jet powered Northrop flying wings waaay back in the day

Mahatma coat

SEANYBOY1 wrote: »

German technology was superior in nearly ever field.

Now I would not argue that they were fierce Clever Bastards, but some of those Firsts arent tho.

First to develop military submarines.

Nope, twas a Liscannor man called John P Holland

First to develop cruise missiles.

Dunno If Id call the V1 or V2 Cruise Missiles in the Modern Context, they were veery much Point and hope in the guidance department.

First to develop balistic missiles.

This requires a tighter Definition, Balistic generally refers to anything designed to be hurled with Force in anger at a Target, the name derives from the Roman invention, the Balista

First to develop jet aircraft.

Nope, Twas an English Fella called Frank Whittle

First to develop the machine gun.

Nope,The Maxim gun was the first self-powered machine gun, invented by the American-born British inventor Sir Hiram Maxim in 1884.

Altho you might be thinkin of the assault rifle, which I believe was a German invention.

First to develop night vision scopes.

Actually I'm fairly sure you're right about this, they were the first with Blacklight sights for Tankers and Snipers.

First to develop radio guided bombs.

Yep, twould seem that they did, Henschel Hs 293

Had the best tanks.

this is subjective, they had the most highly engineered and Complicated Tanks, but whether that was the Best in comparison to the Russian is debatable, the Germans may have had the better Design but Russia had the Numbers, and in a War of attrition thats what counts.

The US took Germays rocket engineer Von Braun amd his team and they developed the Apollo 11 mission to the moon even though some of them were directly involved in forced labour camps during the manufature of the V2 rocket.

Thats True, no Von Braun no Apollo

The US Stealth Bomber the one like a bat wing was designed on a German plane which was stored in a hanger in the states which was shipped over after the war and was stumbled upon in the 1980's, they even knew how to develop planes that could evade radar.

Their Long range Delta Bomber, I remember reading about that in a few places, problem was it were only a prototype as hitler didnt have the vision to make it early enough in the War for it to be of any practical use

If Hitler wasnt such a lunatic they would have without doubt won WW11

True that, Shame he was a Little Bonkers init.

cyrusdvirus

Not even gonna TRY multi quoting and not meaning to be pedantic pat here, but was the first military submarine the CSS Hunley during the American civil war? Or does the Turtle from the American war of Independence count?

The Holland boats were the first 'modern boats', with an electric motor for submerged running and a gasoline engine for surface running, but to my mind the Hunley counts as the first military sub.

And while i'm at it (HONEST, i'm not being pedantic here!!! ) the ME-262 was the first OPERATIONAL jet fighter aircraft, Whittle wasn't paid much heed by the British establishment early on...

Mahatma coat

Yeah they BUILT the first Jetfighter with the ME262, but whittle invented the Jet engine.

Also I wouldnt count the American Civil war 'Submarines' the Hollands was the first machine that we would recognise today as a Submarine, it had all the bits and bobs worked out, like electric motrors and torpedo tubes (even tho they hadnt torpedos)



An interesting thing about Jet development,

I have heard it from many sources that the Air war in Corea was essentially fought by 2 different batches of Captured German scientests one Side designing the Mig15 and one side the F86Sabre, both of which were surprisingly simmilar to the Last project they had worked on in Germany

cyrusdvirus

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Yeah they BUILT the first Jetfighter with the ME262, but whittle invented the Jet engine.


Also I wouldnt count the American Civil war 'Submarines' the Hollands was the first machine that we would recognise today as a Submarine, it had all the bits and bobs worked out, like electric motrors and torpedo tubes (even tho they hadnt torpedos)



An interesting thing about Jet development,

I have heard it from many sources that the Air war in Corea was essentially fought by 2 different batches of Captured German scientests one Side designing the Mig15 and one side the F86Sabre, both of which were surprisingly simmilar to the Last project they had worked on in Germany

Wasn't denying that Whittle invented the jet engine, but the poster said first to develop jet aircraft. It could be taken either way i suppose.

I acknowledged that the Holland's were the forefather of the modern submarine, but the Hunley was the forefather of the Holland's, and carried out the first successful anti ship mission

Ping Chow Chi

d22ontour wrote: »

Can it be any worse than what we have now though ?

I suppose that all depends on what your racial and religious profile is I guess.

Mahatma coat

Thats the thing about Genocide as a policy tho, its fairly Finite in its timespans, had Germany won I would have expected that there would have been one Global purge in the fifties, after that the population would have been cleansed and normal service would have resumed for most.

endakenny

HavingCrack wrote: »

The plot of the film is so far removed from that of the book that its slightly ridiculous. I'd recommend the book over the film any day.

I saw the film but never read the book. In the book, the point of divergence occurs in 1942. Heydrich survives the ambush and the Nazis realise the British have cracked Enigma and thus lead the Royal Navy into a trap. In the film, D-Day ends in the defeat of the Allied forces, which doesn't make sense because it is likely that such a scenario would have meant that either the Soviets would have reached the English Channel or the Americans would have dropped atomic bombs on Germany. Even before Pearl Harbour, Roosevelt was determined that America would be in the war one way or another (Read the essay "The Japanese did not attack Pearl Harbour" by Conrad Black, in "What Might Have Been", edited and introduced by Andrew Roberts). Therefore, failure on D-Day would not necessarily have meant that the Yanks would have pulled out of the European theatre of conflict.

Prefab Sprouter

As with most "What ifs" you can generally cover most with "America nukes Berlin, war in Europe ends". For that is what would have happened.

getz

endakenny wrote: »

I saw the film but never read the book. In the book, the point of divergence occurs in 1942. Heydrich survives the ambush and the Nazis realise the British have cracked Enigma and thus lead the Royal Navy into a trap. In the film, D-Day ends in the defeat of the Allied forces, which doesn't make sense because it is likely that such a scenario would have meant that either the Soviets would have reached the English Channel or the Americans would have dropped atomic bombs on Germany. Even before Pearl Harbour, Roosevelt was determined that America would be in the war one way or another (Read the essay "The Japanese did not attack Pearl Harbour" by Conrad Black, in "What Might Have Been", edited and introduced by Andrew Roberts). Therefore, failure on D-Day would not necessarily have meant that the Yanks would have pulled out of the European theatre of conflict.

yes america had fully intended to enter the war,the proof of it is that a secret agreement had been signed BEFORE america entered the war,that provided the setting up of a US naval base in derry, on june 30th 1941,362 technicians arrived,by december there was over 700,by 7th december when america entered the war,a huge network of US navy facilities had been built up in derry.

SEANYBOY1

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Yeah they BUILT the first Jetfighter with the ME262, but whittle invented the Jet engine.

Also I wouldnt count the American Civil war 'Submarines' the Hollands was the first machine that we would recognise today as a Submarine, it had all the bits and bobs worked out, like electric motrors and torpedo tubes (even tho they hadnt torpedos)



An interesting thing about Jet development,

I have heard it from many sources that the Air war in Corea was essentially fought by 2 different batches of Captured German scientests one Side designing the Mig15 and one side the F86Sabre, both of which were surprisingly simmilar to the Last project they had worked on in Germany

True, the Americans were convinced that they had the upper hand and were shoked to see near identical Soviet aircraft

SEANYBOY1

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Now I would not argue that they were fierce Clever Bastards, but some of those Firsts arent tho.

Nope, twas a Liscannor man called John P Holland

Correct but I meant in actual warfare although as already said by someone else there was one used in American Civil War

Artur.PL

There was one good moment when III Reich was unprotected and allies could very easy win that war. When 1939 Polish Defensive War was finished, III Reich supplies were almost empty. Hitler (Supreme Command of the Armed Forces)did not expected that campaign will be so exhausted. It was really good moment.

NoseyMike2010

Artur.PL wrote: »

There was one good moment when III Reich was unprotected and allies could very easy win that war. When 1939 Polish Defensive War was finished, III Reich supplies were almost empty. Hitler (Supreme Command of the Armed Forces)did not expected that campaign will be so exhausted. It was really good moment.

Interessting ... I wasn't aware of that.

wellboy76

Sure didnt a German Folens make all our school books.

Mind you had Hitler won the war, I wouldnt know what it would be like, I'd have been shot for being left handed!

ejmaztec

wellboy76 wrote: »

Sure didnt a German Folens make all our school books.

Mind you had Hitler won the war, I wouldnt know what it would be like, I'd have been shot for being left handed!

Belgian.

wellboy76

Ah sure whats the difference!!!!

defiant12

d22ontour wrote: »

Financial war, yeah they were winners as they bankroll the EU now.The eastern front led to their their demise of course, but hey lets all believe the yanks and brits won that war....If they never went east and actually invaded Britain when they had superiority regardless of what western history tries to tell us then we would live in a different world. A better world ? Who knows ...Can it be any worse than what we have now though ?

Without naval and air superiority invading Britain was impossible, once the battle of Britain was lost invasion was no longer a possibility.
Had Britain not remained in the war Europe would have been abondoned to the Germans/Soviets and it is uncertain whether the US would have intervened.
Granted, the decisive factor of the war as it played out was Germany fighting on two front but it was not the only reason for them losing the war.
Had Hitler been more patient and delayed for two years to build up the Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine and prepare the German economy for total war he may well have succeeded.

As to what the world would be like now, who knows?
The Irish would probably be relatively independent and have a decent quality of life but the consequences for the Russian people do not bear thinking about...

Mike 1972

defiant12 wrote: »

but the consequences for the Russian people do not bear thinking about...

:eek: The Russians would have been initially enslaved and eventually would meet the same fate as the Jews. The Nazi's had established the infrastructure to bring about the annihilation of virtually the entire Jewish population in Europe but once this had been accomplished other groups would follow. Including many who would initially have regarded the invading nazi's as "liberators"

HavingCrack wrote: »

I presume Christian religions would have been nearly eradicated under German control if you go by Nazi activites leading up to and during the war.

Not necessarily. True there were places and times where Christianity was brutally suppressed by the Nazi's in other places they worked hand in hand. A lot is written about the alleged beliefs, attitudes, and intentions of the Nazi's regarding religion (often selectively quoting pronouncements by Hitler himself on the subject. Which taken in their entirety are inconsistent and contradictory) usually with the Godwinesque intention of attempting to portray in a bad light whatever belief (be it Christianity in general/Catholicism in particular/Atheism/Occultism/Satanism) the author in question has an agenda against.

xavidub

SEANYBOY1 wrote: »

German technology was superior in nearly ever field.
First to develop military submarines.
First to develop cruise missiles.
First to develop balistic missiles.
First to develop jet aircraft.
First to develop the machine gun.
First to develop night vision scopes.
First to develop radio guided bombs.
Had the best tanks.
The US took Germays rocket engineer Von Braun amd his team and they developed the Apollo 11 mission to the moon even though some of them were directly involved in forced labour camps during the manufature of the V2 rocket.

The US Stealth Bomber the one like a bat wing was designed on a German plane which was stored in a hanger in the states which was shipped over after the war and was stumbled upon in the 1980's, they even knew how to develop planes that could evade radar.

If Hitler wasnt such a lunatic they would have without doubt won WW11

There are no circumstances in which Germany could have defeated the USA.

Your list of technical achievements means little, since (a) Similar weapons would have been rapidly developed as soon as they were deployed by the Germans and more importantly (b) the imbalance in resources meant that, for example, for every Bf 262 deployed by the Germans, the US could deploy 20 P51s. And anyway, what is a jet fighter without aviation fuel?

A nation without access to sufficient iron ore, crude oil and essential minerals cannot defeat one that has. The industrial might of the USA made the outcome only a matter of time. Similarly the outcome against Russia was determined by industrial capacity.

That's even before one considers the Manhattan Project, of which the Germans had no rival and no means to develop one either. Coupled with the fact that the US controlled German airspace from 1944 on, the result was not in doubt.

xavidub

I remember that Hitler considered the Irish a 'race of Gypsies' and given how he treated those people, I doubt life under him would have been pleasant in Ireland.

Morlar

xavidub wrote: »

I remember that Hitler considered the Irish a 'race of Gypsies' and given how he treated those people, I doubt life under him would have been pleasant in Ireland.

Where do you remember this from ?

HavingCrack

xavidub wrote: »

I remember that Hitler considered the Irish a 'race of Gypsies' and given how he treated those people, I doubt life under him would have been pleasant in Ireland.

Hitler's Irish Movies discussed this if I remember. Apparently the German plan for Ireland was to turn it into a giant concentration/labour camp where anyone they didn't like in the rest of Europe would be deported to.

Morlar

HavingCrack wrote: »

Hitler's Irish Movies discussed this if I remember. Apparently the German plan for Ireland was to turn it into a giant concentration/labour camp where anyone they didn't like in the rest of Europe would be deported to.

Sorry but that's just horse****.

HavingCrack

Morlar wrote: »

Sorry but that's just horse****.

Just quoting what I remember, not agreeing with it. I reckon it's all made up myself.

However I can see how the idea of an off-shore concentration camp could have been an attractive proposition.

marcsignal

Artur.PL wrote: »

There was one good moment when III Reich was unprotected and allies could very easy win that war. When 1939 Polish Defensive War was finished, III Reich supplies were almost empty. Hitler (Supreme Command of the Armed Forces)did not expected that campaign will be so exhausted. It was really good moment.

Quite true. In the Polish Campaign, the Germans lost 25% of the aircraft committed, and approx a Divisions worth of Tanks.

It's also quite clear, in hindsight, that Poland was sold down the toilet by the French and the British.

The French promised the Poles in May 1939, that in the event of a German attack, France would launch an offensive against the Germans in the West “no later than fifteen days after mobilization”. A promise made in a treaty signed between Poland and France.
However, when Germany attacked, Poland was totally and completely betrayed. Britain and France did declare war, and French troops made a brief advance toward the Siegfried Line, but stopped upon meeting German resistance. Had France attacked the Germans in a more aggressive way as promised, the results would have been disastrous for the Germans.
Contrary to their assurances to Poland, Britain and France later agreed to allow Russia keep the parts of Poland seized as part of the non aggression pact with Hitler in 1939.

In terms of Britain, Neville Chamberlain stated in the House of Commons on March 31, 1939:

As the House is aware, certain consultations are now proceeding with other Governments. In order to make perfectly clear the position of His Majesty's Government in the meantime before those consultations are concluded, I now have to inform the House that during that period, in the event of any action which clearly threatened Polish independence, and which the Polish Government accordingly considered it vital to resist with their national forces, His Majesty's Government would feel themselves bound at once to lend the Polish Government all support in their power. They have given the Polish Government an assurance to this effect. I may add that the French Government have authorized me to make it plain that they stand in the same position in this matter as do His Majesty's Government

Source

By April 1939 a formal agreement was signed between Poland and Britain. It stated quite clearly:

"If Germany attacks Poland His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom will at once come to the help of Poland."

Source: Anita Prazmowska, Britain, Poland and the Eastern Front, 1939 (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1987), p. 193.

Britain’s support for Poland was a relatively new development, but France’s alliance initially went back as far as 1921. That year, France signed a mutual assistance pact with Poland on February 21, and Raymond Poincaré, the fufure president of the French Republic, stated:

"Everything orders us to support Poland: The Versailles Treaty, the plebiscite, loyalty, the present and the future interest of France, and the permanence of peace."

Source: Richard Watt, Bitter Glory: Poland and its Fate, 1919-1939 (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1979), p. 176.

On September 15, 1922 a formal military alliance signed by Marshal Foch and General Sokoski, stated explicitly:

"In case of German aggression against either Poland or France, or both, the two nations would aid each other to the fullest extent.”

Source: Bauer, "Franco-Polish Relations," p. 32.

By mid May 1939 the Franco-Polish Military Convention stated that:

"on the outbreak of war between Germany and Poland, the French would immediately undertake air action against Germany.

It was also agreed that:

on the third day of French mobilization its army would launch a diversionary offensive into German territory, which would be followed by a major military offensive of the full French army to take place no later than fifteen days after mobilisation

Source: Richard Watt : Watt, Bitter Glory, p. 402.

Despite promising to help Poland fight a war against Nazi Germany, behind the scenes the British and French seriously doubted their ability to effectively aid the Poles. Discussions were held by the British and French Chiefs of Staff between March 31 and April 4, 1939. A report entitled "The Military Implications of an Anglo-French Guarantee of Poland and Rumania" stated:

"If Germany undertook a major offensive in the East there is little doubt that she could occupy Rumania, Polish Silesia and the Polish Corridor. If she were to continue the offensive against Poland it would only be a matter of time before Poland was eliminated from the war. Though lack of adequate communications and difficult country would reduce the chances of an early decision, No spectacular success against the Siegfried Line can be anticipated, but having regard to the internal situation in Germany, the dispersal of her effort and the strain of her rearmament programme, we should be able to reduce the period of Germany's resistance and we could regard the ultimate issue with confidence."

Source: Prazmowska, Britain, Poland and the Eastern Front, p. 81.

What actually happened is certainly no secret. The RAF, for example, did not even attempt to bomb German military installations because, as the Air Staff concluded on September 20:

"Since the immutable aim of the Allies is the ultimate defeat of Germany, without which the fate of Poland is permanently sealed, it would obviously be militarily unsound and to the disadvantage of all, including Poland, to undertake at any given moment operations ... unlikely to achieve effective results, merely for the sake of maintaining a gesture."

The Chiefs of Staff then informed Chamberlain that:

"nothing we can do in the air in the Western Theatre would have any effect of relieving pressure on Poland."

Source: Prazmowska, Britain, Poland and the Eastern Front, pp. 183-184.

Consequently, instead of Bombing Germany, as promised, the RAF chose to drop Propaganda Leaflets instead.

xavidub wrote: »

I remember that Hitler considered the Irish a 'race of Gypsies' and given how he treated those people, I doubt life under him would have been pleasant in Ireland.

Untrue.

It amazes me how sensationalist wives tales like this (soap, lampshades and shrunken heads, spring to mind) are passed off as real history.

Fyi, not only was Hitler, personally, well up on Irish History, but the Ahnenerbe in Germany was extremely interested in trying to establish a connection between the Celts and the Aryan Race.

I think that the Nazis saw some of the stories in the Lebor Feasa Runda as supportive of their theory that the Aryan race originated from a lost continent like Atlantis or Thule. The Lebor Feasa Runda relates how the gods once lived on an immortal island that lay to the west of Ireland until it sank beneath the Atlantic Ocean; this island was also the birthplace of the human race according to Celtic legend. Then, of course, there is the fact that the Lebor Feasa Runda reveals techniques by which the ancient gods of the Celts can be summoned to give their aid and assistance to those who contact them by means of magical operations; a prospect which may well have held an enormous appeal to the Nazis in their efforts to establish military domanince over Europe.

Granted, it’s difficult to find concrete sources for mysticism (which doesn’t remotely interest me, I might add), but for what it’s worth...

Source

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