Supplements for mma

fogarty245

Im just wondering if anybody can give me any info as to what would be the best protein/creatine supplement to buy and use for training in mma??

Ideally id also like to cut down on my weight but put on muscle at the same time?

Ive tried the maximuscle and taught it was ok and i was thinking of trying usn muscle fuel anabolic now as my gym has recently started stocking it, so any help would be great

danlen

fogarty245 wrote: »

Ideally id also like to cut down on my weight but put on muscle at the same time?

Pretty impossible I think as you need a calorie deficit to lose fat and a calorie excess to gain muscle.

With regards to supplements, this would be a good place to start:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054989471

DubMedic

Optimise your diet/routine first, then consider if there is an actual need for 'supplements'.

Will Heffernan

fogarty245 wrote: »

Im just wondering if anybody can give me any info as to what would be the best protein/creatine supplement to buy and use for training in mma??

Best Creatine = Plain creatine monohydrate.

Best Protein = This is dependent on what you are looking to use it for.

fogarty245 wrote: »

Ideally id also like to cut down on my weight but put on muscle at the same time?

Very difficult. What you should aim for is to maintain your lean muscle mass while decreasing your body fat.

fogarty245 wrote: »

Ive tried the maximuscle and taught it was ok and i was thinking of trying usn muscle fuel anabolic now as my gym has recently started stocking it, so any help would be great

If you are determined to use a protein supplement and from the questions I'm not entirely sure you understand why and or how to use it I'd suggest you make your selection based on price and taste.

fogarty245

Thanks for the help lads..

I should have explained abit more on what i wanted to acheive instead of making myself look like abit of a fool but i got the information i needed so thanks all

siochain

training, fighting and good food.

Just checked out the ingredients list for usn muscle fuel anabolic and it contains a lot of fancy crap that you don’t really need. One serving has 540 calories with 78g of carbs which won’t keep you lean if your adding it to your existing diet.

Save your cash and just have a whey shake and a banana after training and take a multi vit. Its also very expensive for 26 servings.

blaze1

siochain wrote: »

training, fighting and good food.

Just checked out the ingredients list for usn muscle fuel anabolic and it contains a lot of fancy crap that you don’t really need. One serving has 540 calories with 78g of carbs which won’t keep you lean if your adding it to your existing diet.

Save your cash and just have a whey shake and a banana after training and take a multi vit. Its also very expensive for 26 servings.

i'm trying to shed a bit of weight also.
about 6ft and the last way in was 115. Ideally would like to get to around 95.

Would Whey aid this?

Odats

blaze1 wrote: »

i'm trying to shed a bit of weight also.
about 6ft and the last way in was 115. Ideally would like to get to around 95.

Would Whey aid this?

I'm in the same boat at the moment and have started a program with our strength and conditioning coach at our club where he monitors our food intake and gives us specific exercises. Basically he says that to shift the weight it's all about creating a calorie deficit by eating smaller portion sizes. I use whey protein shakes and am about to start eating six small meals rather than 3 square meals.

cowzerp

In my opinion the most important supplement for MMA or any sporting activity is Glucosimine and chondroitin, this will help your joints and keep your body functioning through punishing body workouts, genuinely when you go past mid 20's you will start to notice the need for this but better starting before problems occur.

siochain

cowzerp wrote: »

In my opinion the most important supplement for MMA or any sporting activity is Glucosimine and chondroitin, this will help your joints and keep your body functioning through punishing body workouts, genuinely when you go past mid 20's you will start to notice the need for this but better starting before problems occur.

fully agree I use it and cissus.

siochain

blaze1 wrote: »

i'm trying to shed a bit of weight also.
about 6ft and the last way in was 115. Ideally would like to get to around 95.

Would Whey aid this?

depends on your diet, if you add it to your existing diet its more calories so it won‘t help loose weight. If your training hard it will help muscle recovery and depending on what type of training your doing it may help muscle growth. Best thing would be to post up your current diet and some here may be able to give you a few tips.

Even as a starter if your spread your existing daily total calories over 6 portions instead of the usually big 3 it will help as the body will utilize the calories more efficiently.

Will Heffernan

siochain wrote: »

Even as a starter if your spread your existing daily total calories over 6 portions instead of the usually big 3 it will help as the body will utilize the calories more efficiently.

That's actually a myth and not true at all. I usually let a lot of stuff slide here but this just isn't true and numerous well conducted studies that set out with this exact same hypothesis have shown that this is actually a fallacy.

7daze

There are a lot of supplements out there that promise the world, in my opinion 90% of them are a waste of time and money. For MMA I found my money was better spent on good multivitamins and fish oils and I've seen some decent results with creatine and BCAA's.

Train, rest, eat well and when you do supplement your diet keep it simple. That's my 2c worth.

siochain

Will Heffernan wrote: »

That's actually a myth and not true at all. I usually let a lot of stuff slide here but this just isn't true and numerous well conducted studies that set out with this exact same hypothesis have shown that this is actually a fallacy.

well will,

I know it works from my own personal experience. Not only for maintaining weight but also for generally feeling better physically.

Google will find you numerous studies with clams backing up both. With out going into the roll of insulin and in general how the body burns\stores calories I’m in the side of the spread of calories over smaller sizes.

Like with anything its horses for courses what works for one person many not work well for the next.

blaze1

siochain wrote: »

depends on your diet, if you add it to your existing diet its more calories so it won‘t help loose weight. If your training hard it will help muscle recovery and depending on what type of training your doing it may help muscle growth. Best thing would be to post up your current diet and some here may be able to give you a few tips.

Even as a starter if your spread your existing daily total calories over 6 portions instead of the usually big 3 it will help as the body will utilize the calories more efficiently.

my diets pretty erratic at the mo, so i think i'll just stick with the 3 meals for the minute.. Going to make changes this week to cut all unhealthy stuff out this week. I'll give that a bash for the next couple of weeks and see what improvements i make, and then maybe try and go to the 6 smaller meals.
I'm on cod liver tabs at the mo for joints etc, but after a tough fitness class last nite am still aching all over so im defo going to look at the gloucosime (sp) tommorow.

Thanks for the advice and will keep ye's posted!

Will Heffernan

siochain wrote: »

well will,

Ohh...I can feel a good boardie's talking to coming on. You guys do realise that when I tell you that you are wrong that it's not because I am trying to be mean? When I tell you that you're wrong it's only because I am trying to help shoirt circuit the spread of bad information.

I know it works from my own personal experience. Not only for maintaining weight but also for generally feeling better physically.

If you had of said that I would of just let it go...that'd be fine by me.

What you actually said though was:

siochain wrote: »

Even as a starter if your spread your existing daily total calories over 6 portions instead of the usually big 3 it will help as the body will utilize the calories more efficiently.

When what you should of said was:

In my personal experience I've found that spreading my existing daily total calories over 6 portions instead of the usually big 3 has helped me maintain my weight and feel better.

Google will find you numerous studies with clams backing up both. With out going into the roll of insulin and in general how the body burns\stores calories I’m in the side of the spread of calories over smaller sizes.

1. Google? Are you serious? Is that where we're at?
2. No, what you will find is lots of poorly conceived, poorly designed and ill thought out studies that barely meet the definition of research stating all matter of things. If you use google you will also be able to find numerous studies 'proving' that steroids have no physiological effect and that all the benefits of steroid use are psychological...do you believe that as well?
3. If you want to start a thread on the effect of meal frequency, composition and quantity on metabolism than I'll be happy to chime in and have a proper debate on the subject. I'd be surprised if there wasn't an existing thread....maybe you could google it?

Like with anything its horses for courses what works for one person many not work well for the next.

No...that doesn't quite work for me either... because in the words of the ancient Greek philosopher Chuck Palahniuk....You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile. There are somethings that are a biological constant and the difference from person to person are minimal at best.

So like I said...stating your personal experience is grand and can be helpful...making statements as though they are fact in my opinion are not.

Barry.Oglesby

siochain wrote: »

Like with anything its horses for courses what works for one person many not work well for the next.

That's not really true from a biological point of view. There's an argument to suggest that different diets will suit people's lifestyles etc. but in terms of how your digestive system works there's really nothing to suggest that the 6 meals a day protocol works.

Google will find you anything and searching for individual studies shows an ignorance of how science actually works. Unless something has passed through the screen of meta-analysis then it's just an individual study. I don't expect anything better of an internet forum to be fair but I remain hopeful that people will start accessing and using the information that's out there properly.

As for the OP's question, Creatine is grand and I think rolls out of about 3 factories Europewide. At least that was the case 4 years or so ago so things may have changed. What this essentially means is that a lot of companies use a very limited source so buy whatever you want with as little additives as possible and it probably came from the same factory as the more expensive one beside it.

Barry.Oglesby

Take the night off Heffernan I'll look after boards for now.

siochain

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Take the night off Heffernan I'll look after boards for now.

the IPG gang are out and one staying on boards guard,

cowzerp

siochain wrote: »

the IPG gang are out and one staying on boards guard,

ya have to make sure nobody on the net say's anything wrong-that would cause another 2k1 scenario!!

Keep it up Will, Barry!

ps, i also think you's are been over harsh as what he said was not a big no no as far as nutrition goes, eating small and regular is more likely to stop people getting hungry and ruining a diet in the 1st place, anyway peace out.. im on a serious diet so please leave out the food talk!

siochain

Will Heffernan wrote: »

You guys do realise that when I tell you that you are wrong that it's not because I am trying to be mean?

Well Will,
don't be so senstive, no one thinks your mean and trust me you won't upset me as per your edit

Will Heffernan wrote: »

1. Google? Are you serious? Is that where we're at?

Point was you can find a study regardless of where to back anything up. But I'll be sure to make it clear in the future. Thanks for the lesson in how to post correctly

Will the real WH please stand up

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66698128#post66698128

classic, seem to like google for facts when it suits

Will Heffernan wrote: »

That's actually a myth and not true at all. I usually let a lot of stuff slide here but this just isn't true and numerous well conducted studies that set out with this exact same hypothesis have shown that this is actually a fallacy.

Looks like your pretty good at stating 100% correct fact. If I was to declare someone to be so wrong I would at least back it up.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

There are somethings that are a biological constant and the difference from person to person are minimal at best.

to say its minimal is way off, now were down to referencing fiction writers,

but a good one at that.

blaze1 wrote: »

my diets pretty erratic at the mo, so i think i'll just stick with the 3 meals for the minute.. Going to make changes this week to cut all unhealthy stuff out this week. I'll give that a bash for the next couple of weeks and see what improvements i make, and then maybe try and go to the 6 smaller meals.
I'm on cod liver tabs at the mo for joints etc, but after a tough fitness class last nite am still aching all over so im defo going to look at the gloucosime (sp) tommorow.

Thanks for the advice and will keep ye's posted!

yeah the 6 meals takes discipline and can be hard to nail down with so many things going on, see what works best for you and good luck.


op apologies for off topic,

Mod's couldn't get the multi quote to work

Will Heffernan

siochain wrote: »

the IPG gang are out and one staying on boards guard,

Not on guard...most stuff I see on boards I just let go. It is just that sometimes when stuff is stated like it's fact someone should actually say something....don't worry...I don't do it very often...you just got unlucky.

siochain wrote: »

Well Will,
don't be so senstive, no one thinks your mean,

I'm not sensitive at all...people keep saying that...people that don't know me that is...believe me...even sticks and stones don't break my bones...only I can do that.

siochain wrote: »

Point was you can find a study regardless of where to back anything up. But I'll be sure to make it clear in the future. Thanks for the lesson in how to post correctly

Exactly...thanks for arguing my point for me...yes, you can find heaps of stuff that 'back up' your point...that doesn't mean that you are right. Thanks for 'backing up' my point though.

No problem with teaching you how to post correctly...I'm here to help.

siochain wrote: »

Looks like your pretty good at stating 100% correct fact.

That's a bit of a tautology...a fact by definition is 100% correct...it could hardly be an almost fact now could it?

siochain wrote: »

If I was to declare someone to be so wrong I would at least back it up.

If you read my post again...you'll see that I'm only too happy to do that.

If you start a thread or draw my attention to one and I win at internetz then when people are seaching years from now they might be able to find our posts on google and use it to back up their own argument up as fact....that would be awesome.

siochain wrote: »

to say its minimal is way off, now were down to referencing fiction writers, but a good one at that.

I think I am actually a bit more well read on this subject than you think. Like I said if you really want to talk about it start a new thread somewhere...repost what you posted in this thread and I'll be happy to break it down for you.

Personally, I was trying to disrupt the thread as little as possible.

Will Heffernan

siochain wrote: »

Will the real WH please stand up

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66698128#post66698128

classic, seem to like google for facts when it suits

What did I state as fact?

Did I say something like...Take 10g of fish oil a day as it will cure cancer and dermatamological disorders as well as eliminating heart disease?

Then when some said that's not true...say yes it is....I googled it so it must be true.

If you think the point you're trying to make here 'backs up' yours I think you are sadly mistaken...I was merely saying that fish oil was beneficial and that there is plenty of information to be found in that regard.

siochain

Well Will,

I know just want to be the hero of the web and are the profound expert on diet and nutrition so please do us all the honour of starting the new tread and setting us right in our ways. I have already said it may not work of all but you have clearly stated there is no benefit to the 6 V’s 3. So go for it and I will gladly contribute my two cents worth as long as you can keep it a constructive on topic debate, not take it so personally and save the english lessons.

The on guard comment was in reference to your IPG buddy, did you notice the quote !!

siochain

Will Heffernan wrote: »

What did I state as fact?

Did I say something like...Take 10g of fish oil a day as it will cure cancer and dermatamological disorders as well as eliminating heart disease?

Then when some said that's not true...say yes it is....I googled it so it must be true.

If you think the point you're trying to make here 'backs up' yours I think you are sadly mistaken...I was merely saying that fish oil was beneficial and that there is plenty of information to be found in that regard.

man you take yourself way to seriously,

Laertes

Want to mind yourself on the old creatine...
Too much bulking up can cause problems with tendons...
I've heard the NFL looked at it decided it wasn't the way to go and it is banned in France.Not 100% so anyone else back me up on this?

Will Heffernan

siochain wrote: »

man you take yourself way to seriously,

Not at all. There's a lot of projecting that goes on here at boards...it's always me that is way to serious...or me that is getting upset...funny thing is...that never happens.

We can just short circuit all this and get things back on track.

You stated that:

'If you spread your existing daily total calories over 6 portions instead of the usually big 3 it will help as the body will utilize the calories more efficiently.'

Crank your google machine up and give me any and all references you have that show that the redistribution of daily calorific food intake by way of increased meal frequency results in improved calorie utilisation and efficency.

Will Heffernan

Laertes wrote: »

Want to mind yourself on the old creatine...
Too much bulking up can cause problems with tendons...
I've heard the NFL looked at it decided it wasn't the way to go and it is banned in France.Not 100% so anyone else back me up on this?

The only thing even partially correct in that statement is regarding the French ban. Not a shred of truth in any of other statements.

Will Heffernan

siochain wrote: »

Well Will,

I know just want to be the hero of the web and are the profound expert on diet and nutrition so please do us all the honour of starting the new tread and setting us right in our ways. I have already said it may not work of all but you have clearly stated there is no benefit to the 6 V’s 3. So go for it and I will gladly contribute my two cents worth as long as you can keep it a constructive on topic debate, not take it so personally and save the english lessons.

The on guard comment was in reference to your IPG buddy, did you notice the quote !!

1. I never wanted to be the hero...have always wanted to be the villian...ever since I was a kid....so you are wrong here as well.

2. Setting people right in their ways isn't too far wide of the mark. It is actually what I generally do...but thanks for bring it up.

3. Like I keep saying...you statement was:

'If you spread your existing daily total calories over 6 portions instead of the usually big 3 it will help as the body will utilize the calories more efficiently.'

and like I keep saying...if you had of said...'in my opinion'...or...'I have found'...that 6 meals works better for me than 3 as Paul has stated then that would be fine...that's not what you said though is it?

4. I'm only too happy to do a piece on Supplements for MMA actually and I'll post a link to it and you can see if you can find any holes in it. If I've the time I might even do a piece generally on Nutrition for MMA...you will be more than welcome to have your 2 cents worth there as well and we can debate the relevant merits of the current research.

siochain

Study:
Test Subject: Siochain
Study time range: 3 years
Test frequency: 7
Why: after many years of various sports (boxing, rugby, kickboxing) I now find it hard to make my competitive weight if the weight category is -89kg.
Study execution: 6 weeks before weigh in spread total calories over 6 meals. First meal has the highest calories and the other 5 are roughly the same.
Test results: It works.
No before you go blah, blah, that’s not a proper study, its not intended to be.



now go for it, back your statement up.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

That's actually a myth and not true at all. I usually let a lot of stuff slide here but this just isn't true and numerous well conducted studies that set out with this exact same hypothesis have shown that this is actually a fallacy.

Will Heffernan

siochain wrote: »

Study:
Test Subject: Siochain
Study time range: 3 years
Test frequency: 7
Why: after many years of various sports (boxing, rugby, kickboxing) I now find it hard to make my competitive weight if the weight category is -89kg.
Study execution: 6 weeks before weigh in spread total calories over 6 meals. First meal has the highest calories and the other 5 are roughly the same.
Test results: It works.
No before you go blah, blah, that’s not a proper study, its not intended to be.



now go for it, back your statement up.

Brilliant...so you have nothing then?

Thanks for that...it puts everything you've posted here in perfect context.

LOL.

siochain

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Brilliant...so you have nothing then?

Thanks for that...it puts everything you've posted here in perfect context.

LOL.

Running away are we, you keep trying to put holes in the post, but have yet to come up with one fact that 6 v 3 is a myth.

Really come on prove that due to the role that insulin plays in storying excess calories as fat, that calories spead over 6 mealsis not better than spread over 3. Waiting to see what you have on this, go for it.

Will Heffernan

siochain wrote: »

Running away are we, you keep trying to put holes in the post, but have yet to come up with one fact that 6 v 3 is a myth.

LOL...this is awesome...I go away from the internet for a while and I completely for get how internet logic works....there's no way I could be dragged away from this one...so I certainly won't be running away.

This seems a little cruel though...I mean you've gone to so much trouble to make yourself look ridiculous that it just seems like you've basically knocked yourself unconscious and that I am going to go to mount and just pound away on you without any moderator/referee to pull me off you.

Just seems so cruel...but I am only too happy to go for it if I'm allowed? Mods? Am I good to go? You guys going to let me off my chain? Don't want to go to all this trouble only to have the thread cleansed i.e: wake up to find that all my posts have been removed?

siochain wrote: »

Really come on prove that due to the role that insulin plays in storying excess calories as fat, that calories spead over 6 mealsis not better than spread over 3. Waiting to see what you have on this, go for it.

You think that insulin is the most important factor?

I thought I would throw this quote in as well....only because it makes you seem so sure of yourself:

siochain wrote: »

I have already said it may not work at all but you have clearly stated there is no benefit to the 6 V’s 3.

It;s just that 'I have already said it may not work at all' is a long way from 'If you spread your existing daily total calories over 6 portions instead of the usually big 3 it will help as the body will utilize the calories more efficiently.'

As for your comment regarding

siochain wrote: »

but you have clearly stated there is no benefit to the 6 V’s 3.

I'll go heaps further than that if you like?

Barry.Oglesby

Oh this can only end badly.

This reminds me of the time my mate was at a wedding and gave out about the state of the roads and how they're never put right, only to find that he was at the same table as an engineer who was in charge of the council's repair programme who proceeded to spend the evening lecturing him on how he shouldn't complain about what he doesn't understand. This lecture included underpinning older roads, flood plains, bog land, budgetary concerns, oversized loads... you name it.

Siochain,
Your 6 meal a day philosophy is fine but for the fact that you can't back it up as it's anecdotal. You feeling better could be (and most likely is) attributable to you just looking after yourself better and watching what you eat more when you're on the 6 a day diet because of the effort that goes into it. Now that's fine, but I also know of people who just eat twice a day, I know one guy who diets by eating one giant meal a day. Myself, I graze all day. All of these are valid experiences, but they're not science. Ultimately everyone should do what they think is right for them and what they get the best results out of, but stating them falsely as fact and trying to convert others to do the same is how Scientology got started, and now Tom Cruise makes bad movies. That's where this ends up. Bad movies.

siochain

Will Heffernan wrote: »

LOL...this is awesome...I go away from the internet for a while and I completely for get how internet logic works....there's no way I could be dragged away from this one...so I certainly won't be running away.

This seems a little cruel though...I mean you've gone to so much trouble to make yourself look ridiculous that it just seems like you've basically knocked yourself unconscious and that I am going to go to mount and just pound away on you without any moderator/referee to pull me off you.

Just seems so cruel...but I am only too happy to go for it if I'm allowed? Mods? Am I good to go? You guys going to let me off my chain? Don't want to go to all this trouble only to have the thread cleansed i.e: wake up to find that all my posts have been removed?


You think that insulin is the most important factor?

I thought I would throw this quote in as well....only because it makes you seem so sure of yourself:



It;s just that 'I have already said it may not work at all' is a long way from 'If you spread your existing daily total calories over 6 portions instead of the usually big 3 it will help as the body will utilize the calories more efficiently.'

As for your comment regarding
I'll go heaps further than that if you like?

In all my time on boards I can honestly say I have never tried to have a debate with someone as childish. We are still waiting one you to come up with one singe fact with regards to 6 v 3. You intend in going around in circles quoting the same one post.

In the cold like of day and maybe you may see how ridiculous your posts are. As for you having a free GnP you wish.

And yes insulin plays one of the biggest factors with regards to fat storage.

Performance Martial Arts

As me being very new to boards ive done my best not to comment on this even though its great entertainment!! Better than the ufc ha ha Anyway this for Siochain, i think given the fact that the IP guys have a place down there that focus on training and bringing on fighters/athletes they might no what there talking about!! My opinion would be to read back over your posts and quit while your ahead even though im loving the debate!! Will does this for a living and as no one is perfect he is respected as a strenght and conditioning coach by a lot of fighters/athletes. Just a friendly opinion.

cowzerp

I also run a club and am a S&C coach-plus have a few different Nutrition Qualifications and neither are right or wrong-the argument is more about the wrong use of words and quite pointless as it's going nowhere-leave it at that lads as it's off topic and not about supplements anyway, take it to fitness or Nutrition if you's want to carry on the Nutrition debate.


Now please get back on topic and give Supplement advice.