Christianity forum needs at least 1 Catholic mod!

vodafoneproblem

Hello,

I think at least one Catholic mod is needed to give a better balance to the Christianity forum. At the moment the mods are a Pentacostalist, a non-denominational Christian and an Atheist (don't laugh, but it's actually true). I feel that sometimes Catholic opinions and posters aren't listened to/treated with as much respect as non-Catholic ones.

If you want examples of where I'm coming from then have a read of the Women Priests thread and the Catholic/Protestant thread. If you don't want to read these then I'm sure you can see why it's a good idea in theory, as no matter how fair someone thinks they're being, it can be difficult to see it from the Other Side sometimes.

Thanks, Au Revoir, Arrive Derci, La Plume de ma tante est votre oncle Robert, Thierry Henri disgraced France, Bon Soir, Goodnight.

smurfhousing

I agree. I think it would bring balance, warmth, and a greater sense of fairness.

PDN

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

If you want examples of where I'm coming from then have a read of the Women Priests thread and the Catholic/Protestant thread. If you don't want to read these then I'm sure you can see why it's a good idea in theory, as no matter how fair someone thinks they're being, it can be difficult to see it from the Other Side sometimes.

So you think that those threads have been moderated wrongly, or in a biased way?

vodafoneproblem

Both. Same thing in this instance.

PDN

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

Both. Same thing in this instance.

Really? I'm genuinely surprised. What moderating actions (or lack of action) have been biased in your opinion?

Btw, I would love to see a Catholic mod on the forum- just as I would love to see a female mod or a black mod. But IMHO appointing a mod for that reason, rather than because they are the best person and possess the qualities required in a mod, would be a piece of politically correct silliness.

Tom Dunne

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

Thanks, Au Revoir, Arrive Derci, La Plume de ma tante est votre oncle Robert, Thierry Henri disgraced France, Bon Soir, Goodnight.

We recently had a similar thread from the Soccer forum regarding the requirement to have a moderator who supported Chelsea (at least I think it was Chelsea). The request was denied based on the fact that we don't appoint mods with a particular viewpoint, we appoint mods based on the type of person they are, the interest they have in a subject matter and their general behaviour on Boards.ie.

Basically what PDN said.

If there are particular issues in a forum, I'm all ears. To be honest, I didn't trawl though those threads, they are way to big. If you can pinpoint at least 3 particular posts/decisions that you are not happy with, either myself or a Category Moderator would be happy to look at them for you.

me_right_one

PDN wrote: »

Really? I'm genuinely surprised. What moderating actions (or lack of action) have been biased in your opinion?

Btw, I would love to see a Catholic mod on the forum- just as I would love to see a female mod or a black mod. But IMHO appointing a mod for that reason, rather than because they are the best person and possess the qualities required in a mod, would be a piece of politically correct silliness.

Would it not be a point of qualification? Being male or female, white or black is irrelevant to the Christianity forum, but being Catholic is relevant

PDN

me_right_one wrote: »

Would it not be a point of qualification? Being male or female, white or black is irrelevant to the Christianity forum, but being Catholic is relevant

Given the marginalisation of, and discrimination against, women in many churches I think female is very relevant.

Also, one of the biggest changes in world Christianity over the last 30 years has been that it has become a predominantly non-white faith - even though the majority of denominational leaders are old white males. Even here in Ireland the changes have been dramatic - so while the media still prattles on about "the four main churches" (RC, CoI, Presbyterian and Methodist) the third largest denomination in the State is actually the Redeemed Christian Church of God - a Nigerian Pentecostal denomination.

me_right_one

PDN wrote: »

Given the marginalisation of, and discrimination against, women in many churches I think female is very relevant.

Also, one of the biggest changes in world Christianity over the last 30 years has been that it has become a predominantly non-white faith - even though the majority of denominational leaders are old white males. Even here in Ireland the changes have been dramatic - so while the media still prattles on about "the four main churches" (RC, CoI, Presbyterian and Methodist) the third largest denomination in the State is actually the Redeemed Christian Church of God - a Nigerian Pentecostal denomination.

You're moving the goalposts. The OP asked would it not be a good idea to at least have one Catholic mod on the Christianity forum. Seeing as it is the biggest faith on the planet, nevermind this country, I think it would be prudent. You could have a black, female Catholic. Everybodys happy:)

PDN

me_right_one wrote: »

You're moving the goalposts. The OP asked would it not be a good idea to at least have one Catholic mod on the Christianity forum. Seeing as it is the biggest faith on the planet, nevermind this country, I think it would be prudent. You could have a black, female Catholic. Everybodys happy:)

And if a black female Catholic were the best person to add as mod according to the criteria outlined above by Tom Dunne then no-one would be more delighted than me.

me_right_one

PDN wrote: »

And if a black female Catholic were the best person to add as mod according to the criteria outlined above by Tom Dunne then no-one would be more delighted than me.

You mean.........

PDN wrote: »

But IMHO appointing a mod for that reason, rather than because they are the best person and possess the qualities required in a mod, would be a piece of politically correct silliness.

and.......

Tom Dunne wrote: »

We recently had a similar thread from the Soccer forum regarding the requirement to have a moderator who supported Chelsea (at least I think it was Chelsea). The request was denied based on the fact that we don't appoint mods with a particular viewpoint, we appoint mods based on the type of person they are, the interest they have in a subject matter and their general behaviour on Boards.ie.

Basically what PDN said.

Thats fair enough. But do you not think that in the "intrest in the subject matter" part of that criteria, a Catholic would know more about, and be more interested in, Christianity than, say, an athiest? Its all about having a balanced view, and you get that from having all sides represented. Due to the massive size of the Catholic following worldwide, I feel that it is seriously under-represented on boards. Going on the Chelsea example above, Chelsea is tiny in worldwide soccer affairs. Having a specific Chelsea mod would be like having a Marty Whelan fan club mod in the Television forum. Given the vastness of the Catholic population in the world, (something like 50% of all human beings claim to be Christian, and 50% of those claim to be Catholic IIRC from geography class!!!), to NOT have a Catholic mod is an abject failure on boards.ie's part. In fact, I'd be interested in doing it myself.

PDN

me_right_one wrote: »

Thats fair enough. But do you not think that in the "intrest in the subject matter" part of that criteria, a Catholic would know more about, and be more interested in, Christianity than, say, an athiest? Its all about having a balanced view, and you get that from having all sides represented.

Not at all.

I would be quite happy if every mod was a Catholic, or even if every mod was an atheist, providing that each of them moderated the forum according to the Charter, and did not allow their personal views to affect their moderating decisions.

"Balance" does not mean having a bunch of partisan mods with different views who each moderate according to their prejudices and somehow cancel each other out so producing a balanced forum. Each moderator IMHO should be balanced in that they moderate the forum fairly irrespective of their personal views.

Ironically the majority of the complaints about me in the Helpdesk Forum tend to be where I deleted someone's post or infracted them because they went on a rant against the Catholic Church and breached the Charter. Then I get accused of being a typical Catholic who's afraid of questioning their faith etc. :rolleyes: In a way I take that as a compliment that I'm doing my job correctly as a moderator. Because, while I am free to air my opinions on the Roman Catholic Church as a poster, as a moderator my personal views should not come into it.

We have, in the past, had a few posters who sailed too close to the Charter in their criticisms of either Catholics or Protestants and had to be warned or even infracted, but it seems that it is only of late that some posters (on either side of the fence) appear to be trying to inject a sectarian element into what has hitherto been a very diverse forum.

philologos

I don't see it as necessary. Most of the discussion has been, and continues to be civil. There has been a slight change in the demographic of the forum recently which is changing the type of discussion we are having, but I think PDN and Fanny Cradock are doing a great job and that there isn't a need for an extra moderator.

If we started a precadent of complaining about what denomination each mod is from, it would become very annoying, very quickly.

JimiTime

I have no issue with having an RC Mod, or a Protestant Mod, or whatever. I DO have issue with having an RC Mod appointed just so that there is an RC Mod.

I have asked, in thread, that the OP here, VodafoneProblem substantiate a claim against the Christianity Mods that Catholics are told to hush up. For requesting this as the honourable thing to do (substantiate the accusations being made), I was told I was being personal and aggressive by the OP. I asked the OP to substantiate this claim also. Still, nothing has been substantiated.

What I have witnessed in recent weeks, are certain RC posters (and I emphasise CERTIAN, as other RC's can be reasonable and respectful) who have been very vocal about the RCC being the 'One True Church' and being very disrespectful towards others. Telling people they are in the grip of Satan, talking about Martin Luther sufferring from constipation (the relevance of which I don't know) etc.

All in all, I vehemently oppose such a step, on the basis that the Mods in the forum presently are doing a great job. Most posters use Jesus Christ as our common denominator without soapboxing about their particular denomination, therefore being inclusive of everyone who shares in the view that Jesus Christ is Lord. Its great to hear the views of people of different denominations, but being shouted at is a very unpleasent experience for all posters. If the Mods feel that there is too much on their plate, then by all means appoint a new Mod, but DEFINATELY DON'T appoint one on the basis of their particular denomination.

JimiTime

PDN wrote: »

We have, in the past, had a few posters who sailed too close to the Charter in their criticisms of either Catholics or Protestants and had to be warned or even infracted, but it seems that it is only of late that some posters (on either side of the fence) appear to be trying to inject a sectarian element into what has hitherto been a very diverse forum.

You really think this? Because of late, I haven't really seen anything but ONE side of the fence causing the problem. The rest of us simply don't have a fence in the context of the forum. I wonder if you are being a little TOO moderate:)

philologos

JimiTime wrote: »

What I have witnessed in recent weeks, are certain RC posters who have been very vocal about the RCC being the 'One True Church' and being very disrespectful towards others. Telling people they are in the grip of Satan, talking about Martin Luther sufferring from constipation (the relevance of which I don't know) etc.

This is a valid point that needs to be elaborated upon.

I think it's tragic that we have gotten to this point of people claiming that people aren't real Christians because they aren't in their church. We have had fruitful discussion with others over the last few years about Catholicism on the forum, we've mutually talked about what we find to be problematic with them.

The problem is that the approach in discussion has changed. A few posters on the forum have argued that those who disagree with them about the RCC are rebellious, under the grip of Satan, teaching heresy and so on and so forth. I don't think any of the discussion about what problems people have with the RCC have ever got to that issue. These people are unwilling to question or even entertain discussion apart from to parrot that the RCC is the One True Church, and the Pope is infallible in matters of faith and morals. OK fantastic, but this doesn't lead to good discussion as you can imagine.

PDN and Fanny Cradock have been very tolerant and patient with such posters, and they have given them a chance to air their views.

There has never been a sidelining of RCC members on the Christianity forum. Most of the discussion there was actually between Christians of all denominations and atheists until recently, which also involved vigorous disagreement.

Tom Dunne

me_right_one wrote: »

Thats fair enough. But do you not think that in the "intrest in the subject matter" part of that criteria, a Catholic would know more about, and be more interested in, Christianity than, say, an athiest?

Absolutely, but show me a Catholic poster who also has the attributes I have outlined above - familiarity with the forum, strong interest in the subject, and no issues on Boards.ie (as in, no band, no trolling, no general messing on the site) and I will, subject to the approval of the mods, make them a moderator.

Being Catholic alone is not sufficient grounds to be made a moderator.

Neither is being a Chelsea supporter, a BMW driver, an iPhone fanatic and so on.

me_right_one wrote: »

to NOT have a Catholic mod is an abject failure on boards.ie's part. In fact, I'd be interested in doing it myself.

Do a search. Pretty much that same argument was made in the Soccer forum thread here on Feedback.

Oh, and suggesting yourself as a moderator pretty much rules you out of contention. This is back to the personal attributes of a poster - knowing the norms and customs of the site is quite important.

Edit: Oh, and somebody with the number of forum bans you have is never going to be made mod on this site.

ISAW

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

Hello,

If you want examples of where I'm coming from then have a read of the Women Priests thread and the Catholic/Protestant thread

Where in that thread are you claiming a Catholic mod is needed? they ARE THE ONLY TWEO THREADS i POST OF LATE - ooops hit caps lock and should have retyped but tried to explain it which took me longer because I confessed and looked for absolution rather then hid and deleted the sin -

I can't see how a Catholic mod would insert any Catholic bias in favour of or opposed to what I was stating and I don't get what you are claiming about Catholic posters who are having anti Catholic opinion foisted on them.

philologos

The Christianity forum is a multidenominational forum or at least I thought, this is what is important to understand. It is about discussing Christianity as a whole. If we were to take the idea that vodafoneproblem put on the forum to its logical conclusion for everyone, we would need over 33,000 moderators for the Christianity forum! :pac:

ISAW

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Edit: Oh, and somebody with the number of forum bans you have is never going to be made mod on this site.

Lol I thought you were referring to me.

I was permeantly banned from politics for claiming a mod there was posting a "silly comment". He claimed that was a personal attack and banned me.
The modding behavior seem to have changed since then.
OTK made the most sunscince analysis message 643 of this thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055085405&page=5

Maybe this is a question of posting style and personal belief. If people want to post "you are damned to hell because of X" then the question is should that be allowed. Well if they can support X then they have a point and there is a "free speech" argument. However, in that example is being "damned to hell" a personal opinion or a personal attack?

Surely the problems I encountered were influenced by a cadre of groupthink secrecy? I don't see how just having a Catholic mod would change something like that.

vodafoneproblem

Tom Dunne wrote: »

We recently had a similar thread from the Soccer forum regarding the requirement to have a moderator who supported Chelsea (at least I think it was Chelsea). The request was denied based on the fact that we don't appoint mods with a particular viewpoint, we appoint mods based on the type of person they are, the interest they have in a subject matter and their general behaviour on Boards.ie.

Basically what PDN said.

If there are particular issues in a forum, I'm all ears. To be honest, I didn't trawl though those threads, they are way to big. If you can pinpoint at least 3 particular posts/decisions that you are not happy with, either myself or a Category Moderator would be happy to look at them for you.

Ok, I feel you're being a bit hostile/threatening by quoting that 'goodbye' part of my post, and I think you're treating this like a Helpdesk thread in looking for evidence, whereas I think feedback should be a bit more general than that, but I'm going to humour you this once, in the absence of the mods here telling you you're out of line.

1) Fanny jumping on The Smurf for expressing a Catholic view about women priests.

2) Nothing being said to Jakkass about back-seat modding when a Catholic poster was warned about the same thing.

3) Nothing being said to Jimi for his aggressive attitude towards Catholics, which serves to shut down Catholics expressing their pov. Glad he came in and gave you a small flavour. No Catholic poster would get away with that.

For 1) see the Women priests thread. For 2) and 3) see the Catholic/Protestant thread.

philologos

Can you quote number 2 there please, much thanks in advance!

WindSock

I nominate this chap to mod

vodafoneproblem

Jakkass wrote: »

Can you quote number 2 there please, much thanks in advance!

Just one example but...much more about, tbh. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66582749&postcount=155

philologos

Note I never said that she had to post in Feedback, rather I advised her that it might well be the best approach given that there might be better discussion on changing the way things were done there.

As for StealthRolex, yes that comment might have been a little cheeky, but it was a valid comment based on his posting style.

ISAW

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

Ok, I feel you're being a bit hostile/threatening by quoting that 'goodbye' part of my post, and I think you're treating this like a Helpdesk thread in looking for evidence, whereas I think feedback should be a bit more general than that, but I'm going to humour you this once, in the absence of the mods here telling you you're out of line.

1) Fanny jumping on The Smurf for expressing a Catholic view about women priests.

2) Nothing being said to Jakkass about back-seat modding when a Catholic poster was warned about the same thing.

3) Nothing being said to Jimi for his aggressive attitude towards Catholics, which serves to shut down Catholics expressing their pov. Glad he came in and gave you a small flavour. No Catholic poster would get away with that.

For 1) see the Women priests thread. For 2) and 3) see the Catholic/Protestant thread.

More specific references would be helpful e.g. quotes from actual messages.

1. As I have pointed out in the above threads the "Catholic " posters post what they claim is the Catholic position.

Indeed I post what I claimed is the Roman Catholic position as I have posted what I claim is the Islamic position or the IRA position in other threads. I don't have to be a Catholic IRA member or Islamic to do so and I don't think having an "offficial" ( pununintended) IRA member will really assist a discussion about the IRA.

Th think is these people who post representing Catholicism as i have pointed out do not have "Ordinary power" in other words they claim that the local Church Authority must be obeyed but they themselves are not the local authority. they have no "Imprimatur" or pronouncement of "nihil obstat". To be in a strictly Catholic authoritative position, by their own claims, they would have to have that.

So the short version on 1 is - A "Catholic mod" of the level they claim would most likely be doing other things.

2. I think they have been quite cleatr about the Canon law position on women priests and on ordination of women. But canon law can be changed in relation to women deacons as I have pointed out. I don';t see how anyone can "jump on" a defined position.

3. LOL excuse my ignorance I didn't realise Jimi was not Catholic I though he was Catholic.
But I don't think he is anti Catholic and fail ( although I could be ignorant of that too) to see the evidence that he seemed to be.

Tom Dunne

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

Ok, I feel you're being a bit hostile/threatening by quoting that 'goodbye' part of my post, and I think you're treating this like a Helpdesk thread in looking for evidence, whereas I think feedback should be a bit more general than that, but I'm going to humour you this once, in the absence of the mods here telling you you're out of line.

If you think I am being hostile, I apologise. I am merely being direct and looking for the facts.

And if you think I am being out of line, I am accountable to the wider community, just like any other poster on this site.

Could I also ask that you provide direct links to posts. To do this look for the post number in the top-right corner of a post. You can right-click that and select "Copy shortcut". Then past that link into a post here on this thread.

Look, to be straight up with you, I don't have any agenda here. The only thing that concerns me is that if there is an issue with a forum, I'll do my best to act as an intermediary and come to a resolution that is accepted by all sides.

Like the Labour Relations Commission of Boards.ie, except without the Bearded Ones. No offence Dav.

ISAW

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

Just one example but...much more about, tbh. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66582749&postcount=155

Based on prior posts i took this to mean that Jackass was saying

1. Jackass doesn't claim to be a supreme authority

2. the discussion to move Catholic/protestant discussions to one thread was taken and if anyone wants to change it there is an admin forum to appeal to.

That isnt anti Catholic is it?

philologos

Can I ask how isn't the forum fair at the minute? That might outline some of the issues that people have with it.

hinault

I have to say I was surprised that not one single moderator in the Christianity section is a RC.

I did ask the question in that section as to why there was no moderator who is a RC and I did receive a reply from two moderators as far as I recall.
I am not wholly convinced by the replies in question.

hinault

Jakkass wrote: »

Can I ask how isn't the forum fair at the minute? That might outline some of the issues that people have with it.

Is it fair that no moderator who is a RC has been appointed, to a forum where the topic is Christianity?

I suggest that you use this as a starting point.