Nutrition and Health Coaching course

Doolee

Hi there,

Im thinking of doing this, http://www.iinh.net/nutrition_and_health_coaching.htm, a 1 year nutrition and health coaching course in Bray. Theres an open day next wednesday but im not sure if I'll be finished work in time to get there before its over.

Has anyone ever done this course and what did you think? I'm looking to just get a taste of the career of nutrition and would love to help people eat better and feel better and I have a particular interest in sports nutrition which is only slightly touched upon it seems.
Would love to hear any thoughts.
Thanks a mill.
Doolee

Sapsorrow

I'd save your money and time and decide if you are serious about becoming a nutritionist or dietician and then go and get a proper accredited qualification. 12 weekends of study isn't gonna equipp you to do anything, these courses are a bit of a joke and give nutritionists in general a bad name, because people come out the other end of a part time diploma calling themselves nutritionists when they've had F-all real training and little or no scientific background and then go meddling with peoples health. Why would you do a course to get a taste of what the career entails? Go online and find nutritionists or dieticians to talk to and ask questions and do your own research. Sorry if it seems a bit harsh, I just did a 4 year degree in nutrition so I can easily see how bad these courses are and how flawed the curriculums are compared to what I had to do in mine. I'd reccomend the nutrition and dietetics degree in Dublin (UCD AFAIK) if you're really into it.

Doolee

Sapsorrow wrote: »

I'd save your money and time and decide if you are serious about becoming a nutritionist or dietician and then go and get a proper accredited qualification. 12 weekends of study isn't gonna equipp you to do anything, these courses are a bit of a joke and give nutritionists in general a bad name, because people come out the other end of a part time diploma calling themselves nutritionists when they've had F-all real training and little or no scientific background and then go meddling with peoples health. Why would you do a course to get a taste of what the career entails? Go online and find nutritionists or dieticians to talk to and ask questions and do your own research. Sorry if it seems a bit harsh, I just did a 4 year degree in nutrition so I can easily see how bad these courses are and how flawed the curriculums are compared to what I had to do in mine. I'd reccomend the nutrition and dietetics degree in Dublin (UCD AFAIK) if you're really into it.

Thanks Sapsorrow, harsh but fair I guess. Its definately nutrition im into as apposed to a dietition and as I'll be working for the next 6 months I'm trying to change my career and cant really afford to do anything full time. But of course I totally understand where youre coming from. This course actually is 3 years, as in part time so even at that you wouldnt nearly have all the knowledge you yourself would have from your degree. I'm thinking of doing a fitness course of somesort also so this would be back up to enable me to help any clients get some sort of nutrition knowledge from me.
Food for thought anyway. I thought it was an accredited course though?

Thanks for the advice.
Doolee

sabinette

Hi Dolee,

HAve you decided to enrol in Bray? I am also interested in the course but am also looking at the IHS in Harold Cross. They are roughly the same but the BRay one is ITECH and FETAC awarded

Frogdog

I've read somewhere (so this might be true or not) that anyone can become a nutritionist without any formal qualification, whereas dietician is an actual profession where an accredited qualification is needed.

Anyone know is that's true?

ciagr297

sabinette wrote: »

Hi Dolee,

HAve you decided to enrol in Bray? I am also interested in the course but am also looking at the IHS in Harold Cross. They are roughly the same but the BRay one is ITECH and FETAC awarded

here is the linky http://www.instituteofhealthsciences.com/

i went to the open day in jan and found it very informative and interesting. the people were lovely. have to admit, i did switch off when they started on the "no white flour, no milk, no animals" rant (this was part of some module you had to study)

but i'd still consider doing it

Frogdog wrote: »

I've read somewhere (so this might be true or not) that anyone can become a nutritionist without any formal qualification, whereas dietician is an actual profession where an accredited qualification is needed.

Anyone know is that's true?

the entry requirements for IHS do not specify science as requirement, just leaving cert
i think there is alot of confusion between what a nutritionist and a dietician are generally, and they are not the same

Sapsorrow

At the moment anyone can call themselves a nutritionist, you could rent a space tomorrow with zero training and stick a plaque up saying 'mr joe bloggs nutritionist' on the wall and get away with it. Dieticians need a proper qualification to practice and generally work in doctors clinics and hosptials as well in government agencies and in education. The law will change in the future regarding calling oneself a nutritionist though, so in the future only properly qualified people will be able to practice as consultants. The IHS isn't a proper college, the only ones in Ireland teaching properly certified degrees or Ma's are UCC, UCD, Coleraine and Trinity, DIT and another college I can't remember the name of run a course jointly between them. I wouln't waste my money on the IHS if you want to enter nutrition professionally, 99% of employers wouldn't even consider you with a diploma from them and there's no gaurantee on how long you get away with being in private practice with only a cert or diploma. Take it from me there's enough people floating about with proper degrees and Mas in nutrition and dietetics to compete with you wouldn't have much hope competing against that standard with a diploma.

teacosy

Doolee wrote: »

Hi there,

Im thinking of doing this, http://www.iinh.net/nutrition_and_health_coaching.htm, a 1 year nutrition and health coaching course in Bray. Theres an open day next wednesday but im not sure if I'll be finished work in time to get there before its over.

Has anyone ever done this course and what did you think? I'm looking to just get a taste of the career of nutrition and would love to help people eat better and feel better and I have a particular interest in sports nutrition which is only slightly touched upon it seems.
Would love to hear any thoughts.
Thanks a mill.
Doolee

This course would be far superior to the one you've described above
http://www.dit.ie/study/parttime/programmes/dt239eveningcourseindietnutritionandhealth/

Sapsorrow

teacosy wrote: »

This course would be far superior to the one you've described above
http://www.dit.ie/study/parttime/programmes/dt239eveningcourseindietnutritionandhealth/

Absolutely, and although you wouldn't really be qualified to a high standard (it's still only one year part time) it would be a fantastic primer course and would give you a great edge for applying for a degree in nutrition and dietetics in any of the colleges. Not bad price wise at all either and you're working with a proper college which is worth much more than anything CNM or IHS can award you.

ciagr297

agree with the comments about IHS. i would only consider doing it for my own interest, but as i said some of the content got me on my guard.
personally, i'd prefer to be a qualified dietician

i'd love to do the DIT course, anyone going to enroll?

Lantus

I've thought of doing some of these courses (and in fact there are several that I will be doing at some point.) but a lot of them charge a pricley sum to tell you very little.

If it's just for personal knowledge then you could order half a dozen good books on nutrition and exercise in conjunction with lots in internet reading and be extremely knowledgable.

If it's for a 'employed' job then yes you do have to have a serious qualification like a degree or MA.

However, that said, most of the nutrition experts I consider to be at the top of their game either have no formal qualifications or only very basic ones. They learned it over time the hard way and practise what they preach by running courses, their own company, writing books etc.

On a side note I have a friend who is doing a very specialist fitness nutrition MA and after coming back one day after 6 months simply said that everything I had told him about nutrition was right....

could of saved him a few thousand in fee's! But then it is one of the courses I would one day like to do (for personal enjoyment only.)

Doolee

sabinette wrote: »

Hi Dolee,

HAve you decided to enrol in Bray? I am also interested in the course but am also looking at the IHS in Harold Cross. They are roughly the same but the BRay one is ITECH and FETAC awarded

Hi Sabinette,
I decided not to go with the Bray course afterall. Not very impressed by the open day. I went to the one in Harolds cross too and thought that was far far superior, the speaker was excellent, the course content was more suited to what I want (re distance learning with a module of Sports Nutrition) and with 6 weekend optional classes. It suits my busy work life better and thought it was more professional all round. But Im not interested in becoming a Nutritionist or fully qualified Nutritional THERAPIST which is different. I also live close to Harolds Cross. Im more into it for my own interest too, maybe with a view to having some sort of client base who I can help make the right choices in the future.

Doolee

teacosy wrote: »

This course would be far superior to the one you've described above
http://www.dit.ie/study/parttime/programmes/dt239eveningcourseindietnutritionandhealth/

Hey, thanks for the link.
I have to say though the fees are very affordable compared to the other courses I was immediatly turned off by the picture of the good old food pyramid with alllllllll the carbs sitting pretty on the bottom shelf! At the risk of starting another thread, its the version with the abundance of fish, good fats, oils, nuts etc nearer the bottom and with the complex carbs much closer to the top I would try to instill. I hate that flippin pyramid! :rolleyes:
(hope I dont start a war on this thread now!)

El_Dangeroso

Doolee wrote: »

Hey, thanks for the link.
I have to say though the fees are very affordable compared to the other courses I was immediatly turned off by the picture of the good old food pyramid with alllllllll the carbs sitting pretty on the bottom shelf! At the risk of starting another thread, its the version with the abundance of fish, good fats, oils, nuts etc nearer the bottom and with the complex carbs much closer to the top I would try to instill. I hate that flippin pyramid! :rolleyes:
(hope I dont start a war on this thread now!)

As they say, eat like a pyramid, look like a pyramid

Doolee

ciagr297 wrote: »

here is the linky http://www.instituteofhealthsciences.com/

i went to the open day in jan and found it very informative and interesting. the people were lovely. have to admit, i did switch off when they started on the "no white flour, no milk, no animals" rant (this was part of some module you had to study)

but i'd still consider doing it

Hey thanks for that link. Thats the one I'm probably going to do, Cert in dietary coaching with a added on Sports Nutrition module. This is my main interest to be honest but theres no where that does any more than the odd talk on it. The Institute is the only one that devotes a whole module. I probably know all that has to be said in it to be honest from my own research and stuff but anyway. Really looking forward to it.

teacosy

Lantus wrote: »

I've thought of doing some of these courses (and in fact there are several that I will be doing at some point.) but a lot of them charge a pricley sum to tell you very little.

If it's just for personal knowledge then you could order half a dozen good books on nutrition and exercise in conjunction with lots in internet reading and be extremely knowledgable.

If it's for a 'employed' job then yes you do have to have a serious qualification like a degree or MA.

However, that said, most of the nutrition experts I consider to be at the top of their game either have no formal qualifications or only very basic ones. They learned it over time the hard way and practise what they preach by running courses, their own company, writing books etc.

On a side note I have a friend who is doing a very specialist fitness nutrition MA and after coming back one day after 6 months simply said that everything I had told him about nutrition was right....

could of saved him a few thousand in fee's! But then it is one of the courses I would one day like to do (for personal enjoyment only.)

Running courses, your own company, writing books etc requires hard work and determination, there's no doubt about that....but anyone with hard work and determination can do those things.

The people who have reached "the top of their game" in nutrition as you put it, in my opinion, are those who have studied the subject for years, researched it in academic institutions, and have had their research scrutinised by peers before eventually having publishing it in reputable scientific journals.

You won't have heard of them, and they haven't made the money that many of the book writers have. But their work is respected in the field, and it is their work that health policy and guidelines are derived from.

Sapsorrow

Lantus wrote: »

However, that said, most of the nutrition experts I consider to be at the top of their game either have no formal qualifications or only very basic ones. They learned it over time the hard way and practise what they preach by running courses, their own company, writing books etc.

This disturbs me now end, to think that the 'experts' people put their health in the hands of may have no proper training and learn 'the hard way'. The hard way is usually by trial and error isn't it? Nice to think of people charging forty or fifty quid an hour just to use you as a guinea pig in their own quest to nutritional expertise. It's so incredibly imoral and arrogant to presume that you can go around meddling with peoples health and well being withtout being properly trained and assessed to a high standard. You wouldn't take a prescription off a GP who had done a part time diploma for a year, food is just a bundle of biologically active chemicals too it's not all that different to popping a pill.

**Portia**

For me, I think it's such a pity there are no part time degree courses in Food Science. If I won the lotto tommorrow I would go back and do it, I find the whole area soo interesting, especially as there is still so much misinformation out there.

ciagr297

**Portia** wrote: »

For me, I think it's such a pity there are no part time degree courses in Food Science. If I won the lotto tommorrow I would go back and do it, I find the whole area soo interesting, especially as there is still so much misinformation out there.

on the misinformation aspect - absolutely! i'm so sick of hearing that white bread is the root of all evil and people should only eat all bran for breakfast:mad:

**Portia**

Hey Guys,

Ressurrecting this thread because I have decided that I am definitely going to change my career and need advice!

Ok so this is the story, I want to become a nutritionist or dietician I don't know what category I would fall into but I want to give advice to people looking to improve their nutritional health on a one-to-one consultation process.
I don't mind how long it takes me to do it (within reason) but I cannot do anything full time as I have a mortgage and will need to keep the day job.
I have heard that the only degree courses you can do are full time which is disappointing. Are there any reputable part time courses which I could do instead?

Sapsorrow

Not that I know of, there's just so much to learn you'd spend a lifetime doing it part-time. Mine took four years and I was doing crazy hours every week with all the work you have to do at home too. If you want to be a consultant then becomming a dietician or nutritionist would be suitable but only a dietician can work in a hospital which personally I'd hate to do as your stuck with a protocol you have to follow then. There really is not reputable alternative.

**Portia**

Sapsorrow wrote: »

Not that I know of, there's just so much to learn you'd spend a lifetime doing it part-time. Mine took four years and I was doing crazy hours every week with all the work you have to do at home too. If you want to be a consultant then becomming a dietician or nutritionist would be suitable but only a dietician can work in a hospital which personally I'd hate to do as your stuck with a protocol you have to follow then. There really is not reputable alternative.

Ok thanks for the advice, hmm I wonder are there any grants or special student loans I could get if I wanted to do it full time, prob not in fairness. I wonder if there are any courses in England or anything..might be clutching at straws here. What if I did a science degree part time and then did a post-grad, would that be possible...?

Sapsorrow

**Portia** wrote: »

Ok thanks for the advice, hmm I wonder are there any grants or special student loans I could get if I wanted to do it full time, prob not in fairness. I wonder if there are any courses in England or anything..might be clutching at straws here. What if I did a science degree part time and then did a post-grad, would that be possible...?

It would be an option (if you can do a science degree part-time?? not sure about that) but not a very wise one tbh, you'll spend lots of time, money and energy learning stuff that isn't particularly relevant and still only do a post-grad that will more than likely leave your knowledge lacking quite a lot due to the constraints on time etc (you can still only learn so much in a one or two year post-grad). I reckon you'd have to be in Mensa or superhuman to do a science degree part-time and work a normal job. It's such a huge amount of work (and stress) without any other commitments and you've also got to consider all the labs and written projects, lab projects, presentations and work placements. I really don't see how you could work it tbh, surely going to England isn't an option with the mortgage etc?

Sapsorrow

It's a bad time to be looking for grants, the golden age of free third level is coming to an end here I think. Unless you were to get back to education allowance, but you need to be on social welfare for a certain amount of time to be eligable. Could you manage the mortgage (and the course fees) with a part-time job on the weekends? The only thing is, I know in my course no one really managed to hold a part-time job after second or third year, the work load was just too big.

**Portia**

Sapsorrow wrote: »

It's a bad time to be looking for grants, the golden age of free third level is coming to an end here I think. Unless you were to get back to education allowance, but you need to be on social welfare for a certain amount of time to be eligable. Could you manage the mortgage (and the course fees) with a part-time job on the weekends? The only thing is, I know in my course no one really managed to hold a part-time job after second or third year, the work load was just too big.

Yeah that might be an option, maybe supplemented with a loan from the parentals and working full tim during the summer. I know it would involve zero social life and stuff but that doesn't bother me for some reason. Have time to think about it anyway...hmm

Sapsorrow

That could work! There's plenty of opportunity for socializing in life, I didn't miss it much myself tbh.

**Portia**

Ahh to be fair it won't work, way too much money which there's no way a bank would lend me and only a fraction of which my parents culd help me out with, would also completely put m life on hold for 4 years which isn't fair on the bf either. Oh well I can just keep on doing the lotto and crossing my fingers! In the meantime I have to figure out something I can do which I will be interested in and which would work foir me.
Thanks again for the advice. Also, I see on your book wishlist thingy on your blog that Mark Sisson's Primal Blueprint is on it. I have it and can post it to u if you like?

Sapsorrow

Aw I know it's a tough situation alright, the one thing I would say to you though is if it really is your passion then consider holding out on going in another direction (and spending a load of money on it) in case in a few years things change and you find yourself able to aply yourself to the full-time course. You're young and still have plenty of time to do this. If it makes you feel any better it's a really crap time to be a nutritionist, there's no work (eespecially for graduates) and no one has the spare cash to want to hire a consultant. So it might be wise to hold out and see how investment goes in the health sector in the future too, I can imagine it'll only get worse for the foreseeable future tbh. Thanks for the offer, that's really sweet but I actually just got it there a week or two ago!

**Portia**

Sapsorrow wrote: »

Aw I know it's a tough situation alright, the one thing I would say to you though is if it really is your passion then consider holding out on going in another direction (and spending a load of money on it) in case in a few years things change and you find yourself able to aply yourself to the full-time course. You're young and still have plenty of time to do this. If it makes you feel any better it's a really crap time to be a nutritionist, there's no work (eespecially for graduates) and no one has the spare cash to want to hire a consultant. So it might be wise to hold out and see how investment goes in the health sector in the future too, I can imagine it'll only get worse for the foreseeable future tbh. Thanks for the offer, that's really sweet but I actually just got it there a week or two ago!

Yeah you're right thanks for the advice

ciagr297

Portia - do you have the Primal Blueprint in pdf or similiar format? it would be great to have it - PM me please:D

Sapsorrow

I got a job in a really hectic cafe in town today, one of the other girls working there is a food scientist, it doesn't say much for the Irish career opportunities in food and nutrition these days I say you're better off in your current job for now Portia! On this topic does anyone know where to go to find out about going into second level teaching? I'd love to do it, apparantly there's a shortage of science teachers in England and Ireland and there's talk about bringing nutrition into the school curriculum.

danlen

Sapsorrow wrote: »

I got a job in a really hectic cafe in town today, one of the other girls working there is a food scientist, it doesn't say much for the Irish career opportunities in food and nutrition these days I say you're better off in your current job for now Portia! On this topic does anyone know where to go to find out about going into second level teaching? I'd love to do it, apparantly there's a shortage of science teachers in England and Ireland and there's talk about bringing nutrition into the school curriculum.

First you should check here does your undergraduate degree comlpy with the list of acceptable courses set out by the teaching council:
http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/_fileupload/TC_Publications/Autoquals_updated_6th_December_2010_94833770.pdf

If it does then you will have to apply for a Hdip in education in one of the universities in either Ireland or the UK. If you are accepted onto a Hdip, it will take about 12-18 months to complete.


I am currently in my final year of a science education degree. This is a concurrent degree so I will not need to do a Hdip and so will be finished in May. I found this thread interesting as I was actually looking into doing a masters in nutrition (possibly in Coleraine) when I'm qualified, for two main reasons. One, this is my real passion as opposed to teaching in a school. Two, I'm not too optimistic about getting a teaching post straight away so perhaps a masters would be no harm no matter what I decide to do in future.

I know job opportunities are bleak in all sectors though. Any opinions you have from your viewpoint would be welcome...

Sapsorrow

Well I can only really talk from experience, but anyone I am still in contact with from college (since graduating) is either doing a masters, unemployed or working in shops and cafes. That said, if it's your passion and it's feasible for you to do it then hell ya, go for it. If you're into it enough and good enough you can make it work some how, at least in the long run of your life. And there's worse things to do in a recession than go back to college. Personally though, I've been job hunting for months to no avail, the degree in nutrition (and dietetics as far as I can tell) by itself isn't enough for the jobs that are out there, so I'm looking into going back to do a food science and technology Msc next year. It would be excruciatingly boring and those elements of my degree were my most loathed, but it's where the jobs and careers opportunities are at. Teagasc etc are continuing to grow and expand as are many food companies in Ireland, that's clear just by scouting the job sites and my degree hasn't provided me with the experience and skills most of these places want. Money is the key, ya I want to be a nutritionist and I find it fascinating but I can't do anything till I get some bucks in my pocket, so my plan is do a msc, get a well paid job in science or industry (the only well paid and plentiful options for the foreseeable future), get some hands on experience, make some contacts, get a good reference, save like crazy and then in a few years I'll have enough money to start a business or go into consulting comfortably. Otherwise pharmas a good bet too, loads of jobs there these days. That's my plan, don't know if it is in anyway useful to you though Sorry, not sure was that a bit ranty? I feel a bit ranty :pac:

Sapsorrow

Oh forgot to mention, I researched the PGDE, I would only have been eligably to teach biology (WTF! I did so much god dammed chemistry :mad:) so I didn't bother applying, I've no hope of getting work with only one subject.

Fister

Just wondering what is so wrong with the 3 year PT nutrition course given by CNM ? They have an association with the Charles Sturt University in Auz where you can upgrade your Diploma qualification to a Degree through distance learning. I have a Bsc in Science from UCC & am v interested in working as a self employed Nutritionist. Iwork PT & have a child so a FT degree course if not possible for me. I am v. interested in nutrition but do not want to throw good money down the drain Has anybody any experience good or bad of the CNM or do people know of any Distance Learning course that would train you to the same level ?

ciagr297

I went to the CNM course open day last year in Dublin cause I was interested.

Mostly, what put me off the course was actually the content of the course and end qualification.

Anyone can call themselves a Nutritionist at the moment (soon to change) whereas the title Dietitian is a protected title. So after 3 years of study, the girl selling vitamins in Holland and Barrett could call herself the same thing as me - when I had invested time and money into studying.

On the content of the course - I come from a scientific background and whilst some of the study material looked like it was from scientific sources, when they started babbling about tinctures and organic food/only eating sprouts/no red meat at all, it quickly threw everything into doubt for me.
I remain strongly suspicious about this course.

Naturally, its up to yourself. Do some investigation though, as when the title Nutritionist becomes protected, your qualifications may not meet the criteria.

Lantus

Sapsorrow wrote: »

This disturbs me now end, to think that the 'experts' people put their health in the hands of may have no proper training and learn 'the hard way'. The hard way is usually by trial and error isn't it? Nice to think of people charging forty or fifty quid an hour just to use you as a guinea pig in their own quest to nutritional expertise. It's so incredibly imoral and arrogant to presume that you can go around meddling with peoples health and well being withtout being properly trained and assessed to a high standard. You wouldn't take a prescription off a GP who had done a part time diploma for a year, food is just a bundle of biologically active chemicals too it's not all that different to popping a pill.

Well there are plenty of people who have limited qualifications like Tom Venuto (self appointed nutritional consultant!) who is an icon of what good nutritional advice and exercise can achieve. Then you have armchair professors like atkins that have a protected title of Dr but honestly not someone you would want to look like or aspire to be like. I believe that actions speak louder than words. If someone lives by the mantra they are selling and it visibly works then great. Quals have there place and as a highly qualified person myself in other areas I would always advocate higher education. For research and food science analysis stuff certainly yes.

To help others towards a better lifestyle communication and empathy are just as important as the raw knowledge of telling them what to eat.

Sapsorrow

Fister wrote: »

Just wondering what is so wrong with the 3 year PT nutrition course given by CNM ? They have an association with the Charles Sturt University in Auz where you can upgrade your Diploma qualification to a Degree through distance learning. I have a Bsc in Science from UCC & am v interested in working as a self employed Nutritionist. Iwork PT & have a child so a FT degree course if not possible for me. I am v. interested in nutrition but do not want to throw good money down the drain Has anybody any experience good or bad of the CNM or do people know of any Distance Learning course that would train you to the same level ?

Honestly, you won't be eligible to register with any credible organisations with a qualification from CNM, this thing of being accredited by an Australian college just reflects how suspect it is. If you want proof, email the British Dietetic Association and see what they think of that qualification, you wouldn't have a hope of getting a job in a professional healthcare setting.

Edit: I should mention, a few years ago I looked into doing to CNM course myself, I met with the course director and had a good look at the curriculum as at the time I was very interested in traditional Chinese medicine. I spoke to a couple of lecturers in UCC about it and discovered the 'college' has a serious reputation and the 'credentials' are completely meaningless. I also spoke to my acupuncturist about it and he enlightened me to some fairly dubious and sinister goings on with the running of the college, that he had good reason to know about.

When the legislation eventually changes to protect the title of health care professionals like nutritionists you won't have a leg to stand on legally without a proper qualification. Anyone in the nutrition industry would consider that course quackery.

There are better options out there I'm sure, but I seriously doubt you're going to find anything credible in distance learning, it's too hands on a curriculum and you wouldn't get any clinical practice from distance learning.

Sapsorrow

Lantus wrote: »

Well there are plenty of people who have limited qualifications like Tom Venuto (self appointed nutritional consultant!) who is an icon of what good nutritional advice and exercise can achieve. Then you have armchair professors like atkins that have a protected title of Dr but honestly not someone you would want to look like or aspire to be like. I believe that actions speak louder than words. If someone lives by the mantra they are selling and it visibly works then great. Quals have there place and as a highly qualified person myself in other areas I would always advocate higher education. For research and food science analysis stuff certainly yes.

To help others towards a better lifestyle communication and empathy are just as important as the raw knowledge of telling them what to eat.

Geez this again? *sigh* I give up.

Red Cortina

Lantus wrote: »

Well there are plenty of people who have limited qualifications like Tom Venuto (self appointed nutritional consultant!) who is an icon of what good nutritional advice and exercise can achieve. Then you have armchair professors like atkins that have a protected title of Dr but honestly not someone you would want to look like or aspire to be like. I believe that actions speak louder than words. If someone lives by the mantra they are selling and it visibly works then great. Quals have there place and as a highly qualified person myself in other areas I would always advocate higher education. For research and food science analysis stuff certainly yes.

To help others towards a better lifestyle communication and empathy are just as important as the raw knowledge of telling them what to eat.

Just after logging onto Tom Venuto’s website there for a look.

I know that I would make a distinction between the dietary advice given by the likes of Tom Venuto, John Berardi etc vs the likes of the WAPF, Mark Sisson, Kurt Harris etc.

Tom Venuto and John Berardi come at nutrition from very much a bodybuilding/get a low body fat % pov. I (rightly or wrongly) associate them with advice such as eat small meals every 3 hrs, eat egg whites and take loads of fish oils washed down with a protein shake. While I would consider their dietary advice to be better than what some folks normally eat such as donuts, chips, chicken nuggets etc, there is no way that I would consider their nutritional recommendations to be optimal.

brainyneuron

I'm currently doing the IINH Nutrition and Health Coaching course (in Bray) so if anyone has any questions feel free to ask

Stayed away from this thread up till now as I didn't feel like defending myself against certain posters who were extremely negative about any course other than their own. Now that I've done more than half the course I feel better able to talk about/defend the course and fight my corner. :rolleyes:

Lantus

Red Cortina wrote: »

Just after logging onto Tom Venuto’s website there for a look.

I know that I would make a distinction between the dietary advice given by the likes of Tom Venuto, John Berardi etc vs the likes of the WAPF, Mark Sisson, Kurt Harris etc.

Tom Venuto and John Berardi come at nutrition from very much a bodybuilding/get a low body fat % pov. I (rightly or wrongly) associate them with advice such as eat small meals every 3 hrs, eat egg whites and take loads of fish oils washed down with a protein shake. While I would consider their dietary advice to be better than what some folks normally eat such as donuts, chips, chicken nuggets etc, there is no way that I would consider their nutritional recommendations to be optimal.

Wouldn't say it was, just an example. Naturally sapsparrow wants to protect their expensive and lengthy education. Totally understandably and rightly so.

Just saying that you dont always need an expert who has been officially indoctrinated to get results. While it's a recommended course of action there are charletons who have quals an even fake quals.

Consider this.....Jillian McKeith and Nigella Lawson are both the same age. Which one would you rather look like?

Red Cortina

Lantus wrote: »

Wouldn't say it was, just an example. Naturally sapsparrow wants to protect their expensive and lengthy education. Totally understandably and rightly so.

Just saying that you dont always need an expert who has been officially indoctrinated to get results. While it's a recommended course of action there are charletons who have quals an even fake quals.

Consider this.....Jillian McKeith and Nigella Lawson are both the same age. Which one would you rather look like?

Hey I am the most sceptical of folks when it comes to the medical profession, for example, so I understand what you are saying there.

I bloody hate both of those women! I get really annoyed everytime I watch Nigella, she is the laziest bloody cook ever and sets a terrible example to all the folks who watch her!! Saw one program where she took a wok full of spagetti (!!) off to bed with her:eek:

Sapsorrow

Lantus wrote: »

Wouldn't say it was, just an example. Naturally sapsparrow wants to protect their expensive and lengthy education. Totally understandably and rightly so.

No really it's not like that at all (plus I got my fees paid for by the government ) It's just that after doing my course I've come to realise how much there is to learn that is completely fundamental to understanding nutrition and the human body that these privately run courses just don't cover. They're just not very good for someone looking to go into nutrition professionally, simple as, and there are much better options out there.

Sapsorrow

brainyneuron wrote: »

Stayed away from this thread up till now as I didn't feel like defending myself against certain posters who were extremely negative about any course other than their own. Now that I've done more than half the course I feel better able to talk about/defend the course and fight my corner. :rolleyes:

Wow subtle, especially with the sarcastic rollie eyes.

Lantus

Sapsorrow wrote: »

No really it's not like that at all (plus I got my fees paid for by the government ) It's just that after doing my course I've come to realise how much there is to learn that is completely fundamental to understanding nutrition and the human body that these privately run courses just don't cover. They're just not very good for someone looking to go into nutrition professionally, simple as, and there are much better options out there.

Regardless of how much you paid for your education it WAS expensive.

As with any subject nutrition is a massive area that can be scrutinised and detailed in every area. It can really get down to the chemistry and components of foods, what they are comprised of and how they are grown.

BUT, in the real world we all go the similar shops and buy similar food. Bit of veg, some meat, fruit and so on. Knowing what is good and bad in a shop is the real key to success. 99% of us dont need or want to know about the science behind why a carot is orange. Is it any good? can I eat it raw etc...

Teaching people what is good and bad food, how to read nutritional labels and more importantly the ingredients list is key. Bring back home economics in school and teach kids how to cook. Back to basics with simple foods.

I agree a lot of the courses are way to hippy and herbs to be considered relevant. Appealing to bored housewives and of no real substance.

The technical courses can be very detached from the reality of most weight issues. If people have studied the science of food then trying to get a scared and food motivated person to change their life requires more than just a knowledge of molecules.

Lantus

Red Cortina wrote: »

Just after logging onto Tom Venuto’s website there for a look.

I know that I would make a distinction between the dietary advice given by the likes of Tom Venuto, John Berardi etc vs the likes of the WAPF, Mark Sisson, Kurt Harris etc.

Tom Venuto and John Berardi come at nutrition from very much a bodybuilding/get a low body fat % pov. I (rightly or wrongly) associate them with advice such as eat small meals every 3 hrs, eat egg whites and take loads of fish oils washed down with a protein shake. While I would consider their dietary advice to be better than what some folks normally eat such as donuts, chips, chicken nuggets etc, there is no way that I would consider their nutritional recommendations to be optimal.

What you can take from reading the likes of Tom is a real basic understanding of the basics of nutrition. While most diet books just direct you to eat A B & C without question at least authors like Tom aim to educate the reader about what A B & C (and D & E) are and why you may want to consider eating them. The stripped back bare bones approach these authors take gives the reader a solid base that they can always fall back on if they come across a new food or wonder substance. You can ask your self. Is this an A grade food? Is it refined? What is the ingredients list?

This has nothing to do wth bodybuilding. Fact is most people will never get to look like bodybuilders. But the healthy lifestyle they lead is an optimum that 90% of the population is just no where near.

I dont look like a body builder and I dot really aspire to but I do know that a consistent combination of healthy protein, carbs and fats in every meal or snack every 3 hours or so is a good way to eat.

I can scrutinise any product in a shop and know whether it's good, allright or hiding crappy ingredients in the list.

I know about the rights types of exercise and how to apply them in my life and how important things like goal setting are for long term success.

You call that bodybuilding dieting.

I call it optimal nutrition. If everyone had that kind of knowledge then forums like this would be very very quiet.....

metamorphosis

Id agree with Lantus's forst post in the fact that the more you make nutrition complicated for most people, the more they will run away from it all together.

Me, I thrive on complication but when someone comes up to me after a class when i tutor people on courses, I don't complicate it. Simplicity is key. People (most) simply want to know what's okay to eat and what's not, beyond that, they really don't care.

Fister

I am really interested in the CNM course as it is the only PT option in Cork, i am very happy & would be very grateful to receive peoples opinion/advice on this either good or bad as it is a big commitment & price to pay but if people are critising the credentials of the College it would in my opinion only be right to do so if that person has concrete evidence. The nutritional course has been accredited by the IANT. Could they do this if the course was not seen to teach its students to an acceptable level to advice clients. I would like to know if u have taken the time to look at the Charles Sturt University website - Distance study is only a part of what they do or are you questioning their credibility also. They appear to me to be a v. well regarded institution.

Sapsorrow

Lantus wrote: »

Regardless of how much you paid for your education it WAS expensive.

As with any subject nutrition is a massive area that can be scrutinised and detailed in every area. It can really get down to the chemistry and components of foods, what they are comprised of and how they are grown.

BUT, in the real world we all go the similar shops and buy similar food. Bit of veg, some meat, fruit and so on. Knowing what is good and bad in a shop is the real key to success. 99% of us dont need or want to know about the science behind why a carot is orange. Is it any good? can I eat it raw etc...

Teaching people what is good and bad food, how to read nutritional labels and more importantly the ingredients list is key. Bring back home economics in school and teach kids how to cook. Back to basics with simple foods.

I agree a lot of the courses are way to hippy and herbs to be considered relevant. Appealing to bored housewives and of no real substance.

The technical courses can be very detached from the reality of most weight issues. If people have studied the science of food then trying to get a scared and food motivated person to change their life requires more than just a knowledge of molecules.

I agreee completely with your post, but (there had to be one ) but it's not like the third level degrees only teach the science of food and not the more hands on therapeutic stuff too. In my course at least, we did a good balance of nutrition and dietetics modules relative to the sciencey ones, especially for the last two years.

My point is it's not good to go advising people with health issues (that you could make a hell of a lot worse if you give them shoddy advice) on how they should change their diets without a really good grasp of the fundamental science. If you don't have the science then you are always relying on someone else's interpretation of the latest research to form your opinions on, rather than your own. That is clearly potentially very dodgey seeing as there is so much misinformation and corruption out there, and you'd never been in much of a position to determine who is preaching nonsense or logic.

I know from experience, years ago before I started my course and had zero knowledge of science I would believe anything in a nutrition book if it was written convincingly enough, because I had no awareness of scientific logic. So much of what I used to believe, and sounded very reasonable at the time has since proven to be complete nonsense. If it wasn't for my education in the sciencey side of nutrition, I probably would never have been able to see this.

For example, if I were working as a practitioner now, I sure as hell wouldn't be comfortable devising a supplementation regime as part of a patients treatment without a sound understanding of the metabolism of those nutrients, you could seriously mess someone up with some very simple mistakes if there were any holes in your knowledge. A part-time, weekend diploma (maybe 80 days study over the course of the year) is hardly going to be able to cover even the tip of the ice-berg as far as this necessary knowledge is concerned, so these under-qualified practitioners are in a position to do some serious harm to their patients.

If you have the science behind you, you can always interpret the latest research yourself (hopefully without bias) and change your recommendations when need be. Nutrition isn't a static science, it's changing all the time and a lot of what was thought to be gospel is now proving to be bad advice, so a practitioner needs to be able to stay on top of all the emerging evidence if they are really going to be in a position to continually give sound advice over the course of their career, much in the same way as a doctor must stay on top of the latest medications, surgeries etc.

Sapsorrow

Fister wrote: »

The nutritional course has been accredited by the IANT.

This really doesn't mean anything, the IANT isn't a respectable organization. The qualification of nutritional therapist is different to being a nutritionist, you sure as hell wouldn't be eligible to become a member of any recognizable associations like the BDA. There are lots of these organizations going around 'accrediting' courses, it doesn't mean they offer anything worthwhile or credible in the industry.

If something goes wrong with a patient you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, and could end up in some serious sh*t. The legislation is going to change eventually and with a diploma from a private college you won't have a hope of getting a licence and will have wasted all that money.

Also, because it's not a credible qualification (in the real world), your only hope of employment will be to go freelance as no one is going to consider your qualification meaningful with lots of people with degrees, masters and Phds in nutrition and/or dietetics around. Whether you feel that it is morally responsible for you to work with ill people after spending a few weekends a year learning about bee pollen and the rainbow diet is up to you, but it's risky. I still don't feel ready myself to start working as a consultant, so I can't imagine how people from these courses can unless they are completely unaware of how complex the field of therapeutic nutrition really is.

People keep talking about this as if you are going to be working with healthy enough people who's health will improve with any bit of half decent advice or like you're only going to be getting people to lose weight. It's not like that, you will have people with any myriad of illnesses and complications that will be tricky to work around and that you could potentially make very serious if you give bad advice that doesn't take their underlying issues into consideration. Just teaching people how to read labels in the supermarket isn't going to help people much if they have heart disease, osteoperosis or cancer.