Anti-Americanism in Ireland

Donkey Oaty

Chairman Meow wrote: »

Oh noes my point is invalid cause i got the size wrong :rolleyes:

Your point is not invalid, but it is ten times less interesting than you thought it would be.

Roll your eyes all you like - it won't improve your geography.

flanno_7hi

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

... as a graduate from Trinity college you probably wouldn't still be up to the mark as those Americans who graduated from Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Columbia, etc.. Remember Americans probably have some of the best third level educational faculties in the world and the fruits of these are very visible in American's contribution to the arts, sciences and engineering.

This is one of the reasons that some people don't like americans. You went straight on the defensive here. What the poster actually meant was that at trinity he had to walk behind fat ****ing stupid tourists all the time. He was not making a comment on your education system.
Also you will notice that I said some people not all. I'm sitting in my Jets jersey at the moment and I love America (my favourite bands, authors and sports are american) the best holidays I've ever had.

The ignorance of a few can destroy the image of your country and unfortunately for you guys it seems that a lot of American tourists that one meets in Ireland are very ignorant of any non-american culture.

bugler

OP: You seem to be operating from a "We like you, why don't you like us?" position. It just isn't that simple.

There are hugely varied reasons why some in Ireland don't like the U.S. But to name a few:

- Your foreign policy. It can be quite aggressive and unilateral. Anyone familiar with U.S. support for repressive regimes in Central or South America, and elswhere knows the U.S. does what is best for the U.S., and if that means other people suffer then so be it.

-Your politics generally. Our own lot here are an embarrassment. But Rush Limbaugh? Sarah Palin? It would be funny, but these people get high office. And that isn't funny/ (It isn't funny here either, but Ireland on the world stage is an irrelevance).

- Your society. Too many guns, too much deprivation, infant mortality rates among certain areas and demographics that would shame developing countries. All in the "wealthiest" country in the world.

- Your Health system. Such as you have a system. When someone tries some mild reform it causes mass apoplexy among people who probably can't even spell "paracetamol". He's called a socialist, and likened to the Joker.

- You monetise everything. Money and wealth are paramount. You must pay for your healthcare, with the money that you earned. You didn't earn anything? Well **** off then. Loser.

- Your cultural output. It's a shame for a country with such a wonderful array of writers, musicians, directors and playwrights that I mostly think of Jerry Bruckheimer & MTV when I think about your Arts. These are the dominant players. All my favourite bands and writers are American, but a lot of them seem aware of what's wrong with America. Which seems a fairly dangerous thing to do there, career-wise.

- Fox News.

These are all things we don't understand and don't like. Some of it is for U.S. Citizens to worry about, so we just have our opinions. Some of it affects us, and we have no choice but to voice our disapproval.

"Anti-Americanism" has been conjured up to silence legitimate criticism of America, the same way charges of anti-semitism are flung around at anyone who doesn't support Israel's every action.

By the way, as has been said, George W. really set you guys back.

Feeona

Dudess wrote: »

Btw, whenever people list the awful things wrong with the people from their country, are they including themselves?

People can criticise aspects of whatever country they like. Saying they can't because they come from a country where bad stuff happens (as if they're personally responsible) is absolutely ridiculous - and Ireland isn't even remotely comparable to the US, or anywhere really, in terms of atrocities.

oh I would say it about myself. I've often caught myself slipping into 'Who does your man think he is?' mode for absolutely no reason other than the person was being a bit ostentatious.

Yes people can criticise whatever they want. It's just when it's done with a complete disregard for our own failings that it gets tiresome. It's very easy to point to America and complain about what they're doing, but who's to say that Ireland wouldn't do the exact same thing if we were in the same position? And instead of complaining, why don't we get up off our arses and do something eg refuse to use petrol? Everytime we fill our cars, get home heating, we're agreeing with American foreign policy. The reality is that we rely on these conveniences, and there aren't too many people who would give them up, shaky foreign policy or not.

Overheal

bugler wrote: »

By the way, as has been said, George W. really set you guys back.

What has Cowen done for You, in fairness.

ejmaztec

Overheal wrote: »

What has Cowen done for You, in fairness.

He's done nothing fair to us, but he is a role model for ugly people.

Pittens

bugler wrote:

Your cultural output. It's a shame for a country with such a wonderful array of writers, musicians, directors and playwrights that I mostly think of Jerry Bruckheimer & MTV when I think about your Arts. These are the dominant players. All my favourite bands and writers are American, but a lot of them seem aware of what's wrong with America. Which seems a fairly dangerous thing to do there, career-wise.

does that make any sense?

This guys favourite bands are all american, and yet all he can think about is MTV and Jerry Bruckheimer; about which

a) The first I never watch, the latter I dont know.
b) the poster doesnt have to watch or know either.

Unlike bugler few of my favourite bands, or literature is from the US. Interesting, huh? I wonder is anti-Americanism is rife amongst Americaholics - people who get their news, views, and ideas from America but tend to lean towards the American Left, as if they were an American dissident reading Chomsky, to compensate for their domination by one culture. I have noticed this in real life too. America is a democracy so you get it warts and all; Fox News ( which you dont have to watch) and all.

This argument would be considered spurious were someone to hate Italy because of crap Italian TV. We would be amused that the buy who hated the TV watched it, or even knew it.

Nobody is forcing anybody to watch Fox News, it is on my EPG in the channels dominated by sales channels and remains unloved and unwatched ( then I dont really watch the Daily Show either , as it has little relevance to me).

And yet I am defending America.

CrazyRabbit

Overheal wrote: »

What has Cowen done for You, in fairness.

I don't think the point is to compare countries. I don't think anyone would even suggest that Ireland is a perfect model for a perfect society/country.

Indubitable

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I don't think the point is to compare countries. I don't think anyone would even suggest that Ireland is a perfect model for a perfect society/country.

There is no point trying to argue with Overheal. His power level is Over 9000!!

Elmo

It is the confidence that American's tend to carry on with, something Irish people cannot handle and American's like many other non-Irish people don't seem to get our lack of confidence/our modesty.

Issues about government policies should really be overlooked that just an excuse.

Thomas828

It surprises me to hear that there's anti-American sentiment in Ireland. Yes, in a country with a population of 300 million you're bound to get morons and total scumbags. Having George W Bush as president for eight years hasnt made things any better. But I've been to the USA and I've met lots of Americans outside the USA. I can count on one hand the ones I didn't like.

squod

Thomas828 wrote: »

Having George W Bush as president for eight years

Eh? Who do you think voted for him.

Indubitable

I always thought the election was fixed.

Elmo

squod wrote: »

Eh? Who do you think voted for him.

Who you vote for should not be an issue.

InTheTrees

Elmo wrote: »

Who you vote for should not be an issue.

AL Gore won the election not bush.

Elmo

InTheTrees wrote: »

AL Gore won the election not bush.

Well I still think American's are interesting people.

squod

Elmo wrote: »

Who you vote for should not be an issue.

:rolleyes:

Elmo

squod wrote: »

:rolleyes:

roll eyes in disagreement??? or just at me point out the obvious?

squod

Elmo wrote: »

roll eyes in disagreement??? or just at me point out the obvious?

The roll eyes yokes was for dismissing the point about voting for Bush.

Thomas828 wrote: »

Having George W Bush as president for eight years hasnt made things any better.

It's as if Thomas828 believes a miracle happened and Bush was granted presidency. People voted for him like.

Elmo

squod wrote: »

The roll eyes yokes was for dismissing the point about voting for Bush.

I didn't vote Fianna Fail but I know many people that did (too many :mad: ), I totally dismiss the point that liking someone has anything to do with their politics.

squod

Elmo wrote: »

I didn't vote Fianna Fail but I know many people that did (too many :mad: ), I totally dismiss the point that liking someone has anything to do with their politics.

Didn't say it had.

scottmelkinson

Funny how the Irish call all Americans stupid because they ask questions like "do you have indoor plumbing" or "do people still live in the castles there". Maybe those questions are asked because your entire country has a smaller population than a couple of our states. We don't pay attention to every split second thing happening in Ireland like they do with America. I'm not even trying to be a d*ck about it. Ireland is a very small country, I can't tell you the last time I heard about it in the media. So why are we expected to have this background knowledge of your country when we visit?

LH Pathe

I would imagine there is more anti-iranianism. Take up an issue with that

Indeed if you remove the hate I would say there is more pro-amercanism regardless, which only prompts me to side with my cousins

richymcdermott

Ah come on lads/ladies how can we hate americans they are the best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EChnZTJicw

:pac:

Doc Ruby

scottmelkinson wrote: »

Funny how the Irish call all Americans stupid because they ask questions like "do you have indoor plumbing" or "do people still live in the castles there". Maybe those questions are asked because your entire country has a smaller population than a couple of our states. We don't pay attention to every split second thing happening in Ireland like they do with America. I'm not even trying to be a d*ck about it. Ireland is a very small country, I can't tell you the last time I heard about it in the media. So why are we expected to have this background knowledge of your country when we visit?

What? Ireland is a developed western European country with indoor plumbing and even electricity.

You don't need to be a seasoned traveller to manage fifteen seconds on google to find that out. Who on earth would spend the thousands of euros/dollars it takes to come here from the USA and not know that much.

Its Not Current Affairs.

So yes people laugh at ignorance, same as they do anywhere. And as we're on the topic, so what if the population is low, some 90 million people worldwide reckon themselves of Irish descent with pride. Thats a hell of a lot more than the population of places like Denmark and its descendants, with as many people as Ireland today.

Anyway, no quite a lot of people laugh at the UK as well, but we're trying to get the north back so we have to play patsy for a few generations till that happens, but don't tell them that.

Giselle

scottmelkinson wrote: »

Ireland is a very small country, I can't tell you the last time I heard about it in the media. So why are we expected to have this background knowledge of your country when we visit?

I like Americans. I've spend a great deal of time in the US over the last few years and the very vast majority of yanks are very nice people. But they do tend to think the western world begins and ends inside their borders.

So I don't see anything wrong with being irritated that Americans might think that we as a western, first world country, have no indoor plumbing.

But experience has taught me that even knowing the rough location of Ireland is a rarity. I was asked once if Ireland was in Australia.

billybudd

scottmelkinson wrote: »

Funny how the Irish call all Americans stupid because they ask questions like "do you have indoor plumbing" or "do people still live in the castles there". Maybe those questions are asked because your entire country has a smaller population than a couple of our states. We don't pay attention to every split second thing happening in Ireland like they do with America. I'm not even trying to be a d*ck about it. Ireland is a very small country, I can't tell you the last time I heard about it in the media. So why are we expected to have this background knowledge of your country when we visit?

This answers your question.


have you even been to wheeling, west virginia? indoor plumbing indeed.

billybudd

Giselle wrote: »

I like Americans. I've spend a great deal of time in the US over the last few years and the very vast majority of yanks are very nice people. But they do tend to think the western world begins and ends inside their borders.

So I don't see anything wrong with being irritated that Americans might think that we as a western, first world country, have no indoor plumbing.

But experience has taught me that even knowing the rough location of Ireland is a rarity. I was asked once if Ireland was in Australia.

I lived over there for over six years and none of my north american friends ever asked such questions, they where just well informed, the irony in some of the american posters observations is amazing.

if you treat people lesser than you then dont be suprised if they think lesser than you.

Giselle

billybudd wrote: »

I lived over there for over six years and none of my north american friends ever asked such questions, they where just well informed, the irony in some of the american posters observations is amazing.

if you treat people lesser than you then dont be suprised if they think lesser than you.

I've never treated anyone as lesser than me and I don't know how you can extrapolate that from my post.

My observation is that many of the Americans I've met can be somewhat insular. That doesn't mean I think they are lesser.

FruitLover

Overheal wrote: »

What has Cowen done for You, in fairness.

He didn't lead us into any immoral wars. I suppose that technically goes in the 'win' column.

billybudd

Giselle wrote: »

I've never treated anyone as lesser than me and I don't know how you can extrapolate that from my post.

My observation is that many of the Americans I've met can be somewhat insular. That doesn't mean I think they are lesser.

I wasnt apologies if you thought that, i meant some north american people making uneducated remarks, same as some Irish person saying all americans like to do is create war.

Yeah we would want to tone down the anti-American sentiment here in Ireland.

Or else they might come and free the living sh­it out of us..

Overheal

scottmelkinson wrote: »

Funny how the Irish call all Americans stupid because they ask questions like "do you have indoor plumbing" or "do people still live in the castles there". Maybe those questions are asked because your entire country has a smaller population than a couple of our states. We don't pay attention to every split second thing happening in Ireland like they do with America. I'm not even trying to be a d*ck about it. Ireland is a very small country, I can't tell you the last time I heard about it in the media. So why are we expected to have this background knowledge of your country when we visit?

I saw Ireland printed as the country of origin on a printer ink cartridge today...

that's been about it so far

Giselle

billybudd wrote: »

I wasnt apologies if you thought that, i meant some north american people making uneducated remarks, same as so
me Irish person saying all americans like to do is create war.

Apologies if I misunderstood.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

I saw Ireland printed as the country of origin on a printer ink cartridge today...

that's been about it so far

Also most of your medicines.

Whether they were made by American companies in Ireland is neither here nor there:pac:

RichieC

I love a lot of things about America, just not the corrupt government and the **** stain excuse for "conservative values" that they're exporting to weak minded idiots over here.

IrishEyes19

Op, I honestly think this is a really silly thing to feel annoyed about. Personally I like America, I enjoyed visiting it. I enjoy a lot of television/films/books that have come from America. Ive a few american friends who I like very much. Ive never seen any anti American threads on boards that have had a majority of anti american support and anyone Ive talked to, has never been rude about your country. In fact the day of the Super bowl, I learnt there are a lot of Irish fans, thanks to Facebook.

Now, do I support the Iraq war, some of your polititians and some choices your country has made in the past. No I dont. But that goes for some choices my own country and others around the world have also made. It's not a reflection on American people as a whole. There are idiots in every nation. The Irish government at moment is testament to that. :rolleyes:

So honestly your whole post really just reeks of insecurity because honestly if you can read the minds of 4 million people. Fair play to you.

scottmelkinson

billybudd wrote: »

This answers your question.


have you even been to wheeling, west virginia? indoor plumbing indeed.

I get what you mean but still a poor analogy. Whether we hear about Wheeling, West Virginia in the news or not, judging by the fact that we are very familiar with our own country and its standard of living, it's logically assumed that Wheeling would have indoor plumbing as well. A country we are not familiar with is Ireland. Ok, the plumbing example is not an intelligent question but it just amazes me how you guys get pissed for not knowing everything about Ireland. That was just one small example that a previous poster used. I was excited for my trip to Ireland this summer but if this anti-Americanism is true, it's gonna be a rough time.

scottmelkinson

Domo230 wrote: »

Old thread is old.

Let the dead threads rest in peace.

U.S.- 1 Ireland-0

44leto

I love America, a great country and IMO great people whom I always found wellcoming and very nice. I disagreed with some of Bush's policies, but that stance was not anti American, it was just a political stance, I never equated that with anti americanism or anti "americans".

For example I diagreed with poxy Bertie, Cowen and his lackeys (very strongly) but that was not being anti Irish. I personally believe America have largely been a force for good in the world.

Freddie59

LH Pathe wrote: »

I would imagine there is more anti-iranianism.

With very good reason.

scottmelkinson

scottmelkinson wrote: »

Funny how the Irish call all Americans stupid because they ask questions like "do you have indoor plumbing" or "do people still live in the castles there". Maybe those questions are asked because your entire country has a smaller population than a couple of our states. We don't pay attention to every split second thing happening in Ireland like they do with America. I'm not even trying to be a d*ck about it. Ireland is a very small country, I can't tell you the last time I heard about it in the media. So why are we expected to have this background knowledge of your country when we visit?

Americans have a reputation for lacking general and geographical knowledge about places outside the United States - a reputation your post perpetuates.

Europeans have a higher standard. I certainly try to read about a country I'm going to visit before I go there. This has a positive outcome in that I don't ask idiotic questions. It's likely that many European laypeople know more about the United States and its history than a considerable percentage of the American population do.

Obviously you can't know everything about a country, so saying one doesn't know much about the whole situation with Northern Ireland or the Celtic Tiger is completely understandable and I think plenty of us would jump at the chance to explain them. Asking if a developed country in western Europe has indoor plumbing is just stupid.

flanno_7hi

scottmelkinson wrote: »

Funny how the Irish call all Americans stupid because they ask questions like "do you have indoor plumbing" or "do people still live in the castles there". Maybe those questions are asked because your entire country has a smaller population than a couple of our states. We don't pay attention to every split second thing happening in Ireland like they do with America. I'm not even trying to be a d*ck about it. Ireland is a very small country, I can't tell you the last time I heard about it in the media. So why are we expected to have this background knowledge of your country when we visit?

"when we visit"
that's why you are expected to have a bit of background knowledge. Why wouldn't you take some sort of interest in the culture and history of a place you are (more than likely) spending a lot of money to visit?

I don't remember why I was in this thread in the first place. In my job I deal with americans all the tima and they are some of the nicest, smartest people I have ever met but their grasp of international politics and the history of countries we have visited together is astounding in it's simplicity.

scottmelkinson

scottmelkinson wrote:

it just amazes me how you guys get pissed for not knowing everything about Ireland.

Not everything, just basic things. Your perception of our prejudice is a bit exaggerated.

scottmelkinson wrote:

I was excited for my trip to Ireland this summer but if this anti-Americanism is true, it's gonna be a rough time.

Ireland is very welcoming to Americans. We may joke about stereotypes, but even the densest of Irish people recognise that the United States is extremely diverse. Just avoid saying anything which might be interpreted as a claim to superiority (not saying you do this, but a lot of Americans do) and you'll have a great time!

kylith

scottmelkinson wrote: »

Funny how the Irish call all Americans stupid because they ask questions like "do you have indoor plumbing" or "do people still live in the castles there". Maybe those questions are asked because your entire country has a smaller population than a couple of our states. We don't pay attention to every split second thing happening in Ireland like they do with America. I'm not even trying to be a d*ck about it. Ireland is a very small country, I can't tell you the last time I heard about it in the media. So why are we expected to have this background knowledge of your country when we visit?

Yeah, I know. It's like when I went to Rome and they all looked at me funny when I asked where all the gladiators were, and where I could buy some dormice stuffed with larks' tongues. I mean, it's not like I pay attention to every split second thing happening in Italy. :rolleyes:

It's called doing a bit of research on where you're going.

Things I've been asked by Americans:
- Do you have indoor toilets?
- Do you speak English? (I've also been told that I speak English 'real good')
- Do you really keep pigs in your homes?
- Where's the best place to see Leprechauns?
- Can I rent a car in Ireland?

Dermighty

I haven't seen many incidences of anti-Americanism in Ireland.

Why was this particular zombie thread ressurected?!?!

First!

IBTL!

Women are bitches.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

scottmelkinson wrote: »

Funny how the Irish call all Americans stupid because they ask questions like "do you have indoor plumbing" or "do people still live in the castles there". Maybe those questions are asked because your entire country has a smaller population than a couple of our states. We don't pay attention to every split second thing happening in Ireland like they do with America. I'm not even trying to be a d*ck about it. Ireland is a very small country, I can't tell you the last time I heard about it in the media. So why are we expected to have this background knowledge of your country when we visit?

Ah ffs, come on. Do we have indoor plumbing? Do we live in castles? Fair enough you're not expected to know EVERYTHING, but...... ah come on! I know from time I spent living there that some Americans just have no notion about the world outside the US, mainly from never having left the country (something like 70% of US citizens don't own a passport I read somewhere?). I remember specifically one girl laughing at me when I told her that we have Internet and that I had heard of Eminem. The same girl was pursuing a master's degree at NYU.

Not all Americans are stupid but its no wonder with an attitude like the one you display, that the nation as a sweeping generalisation is ignorant of the outside world. Ireland might be a small country, but as an American, you are privy to an awful lot more information on Ireland than you would be to, say, Armenia, or a country of similiar size.

NinjaK

We are against their foreign policy, which any right thinking person should be.

miss no stars

I don't think Americans on the whole are stupid.
I don't think they try to offend.
I think that individually they are nice people.

but...

I also don't think they think a whole lot.

If an American was walking down the street and an Irish person walked up to them and said "Hey, where are all the cowboys and Indians?", you'd be fairly quick to think they were a bit stupid. Right? So if loads of Irish people did that, you might reach the conclusion that Irish people were a bit ignorant to the world outside their borders. Right? So when Irish people walk down their street and get asked (as many people have been) by American tourists "Hey, can you guys tell me where I can find a leprechaun?", is it really that difficult to see why people might raise a skeptical/cynical eyebrow?

It's not that people dislike Americans. Just about every American I've encountered has been polite and nice to the point of being almost saccharine. People dislike the amount of IGNORANCE stemming from Americans - not the Americans themselves. It's not too much to ask that people would think to read a wikipedia article or a guide book before spending thousands of $$ travelling somewhere. There also seems to be a belief that people in Ireland don't wear shoes. That's just downright ridiculous and actually, if people actually thought about it they'd think "nah, couldn't be the case". Which just goes to show that they don't think.

As an aside, the political adds to it, which I've included here in italics so that you don't confuse what I'm saying about Irish (international?) attitudes to American foreign policy with what people actually think of Americans.

There's an element of frustration to it. Frustration that a country with massive military power can be so ignorant to the facts that:
it is not the only civilised nation in the world (and that interestingly, frequently refers to "Europe" as though it's a country);
that it is not the be all and end all of how to live;
that we do not all want to live in the USA;
that the world is not all aiming to invade the USA;
that countries need to be liberated by America just because they're not western enough;
that their meddling in complex political climates that have existed as long as the entire USA has existed does somehow not make things worse.

Also, it seems that as a nation, the USA thinks it can act as global police force. If an American gets killed while outside the USA, that does not give the right to the USA to try the perpetrator under US law. If the US had grasped this concept, there might not be such a problem with Iran as currently exists!
Shockingly enough, the US does not have jurisdiction outside of the USA. What also frustrates people is when they see their own country cow-towing to the USA's bully tactics.

Time and again, the US manages to demonstrate that its people are wholly ignorant to the world outside its borders, to the complexity of world politics, and to common sense in general.


But what bugs me most is being patronised. "Oh that's so quaint!!!" Please. Don't patronise me. It's not quaint when I spell things correctly or know how to correctly use a knife and fork. I'm also not an imbecile. I'm not stupid, backwards, "un-free", in envy of the USA or living entirely off potatoes. When Americans arrive into Ireland loaded up with all their assumptions, it comes across as (and IS) patronising. THAT, is what I find difficult to swallow.

But all of the above does not mean that I, or others who hold similar views, am/are anti-American. It means we think that the USA is just a bit ill-educated on world matters and a bit naive, and a bit frustrating, patronising and war mongering. The fact that many Americans can't even see how their nation's actions can be construed (and resultantly take offence) just confirms all of the above.

(Incidentally, I always find it funny when listening to Americans talking about how "free" they are, as I can't help thinking about basic things such as data protection and privacy laws and how theirs compare with the rest of the western world).

scottmelkinson, if you're reading this still, this bit is for you specifically.

You're online, reading about Irish attitudes to Americans. Through this thread you we can be certain that you know that we have electricity, indoor plumbing, shoes, don't live entirely off potatoes and are in fact, a first world western European country where people enjoy (overall) a good standard of living. And also that leprechauns are fictional.

That means that when you arrive here, you're unlikely to act in a hugely ignorant manner, you're unlikely to grossly offend anyone and so are unlikely to be treated with anything other than hospitality. You took offence to the sweeping generalizations that have been made about your country by Irish people, we take offence at the sweeping ignorance displayed towards our country by American people. I hope that this thread has managed to elucidate that parallel to you and to explain that it's not anti-Americanism, it's just people getting offended in a similar manner to how you are offended by what you perceive to be anti-Americanism.

Crann na Beatha

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