spoiler inside-strikeforce aftermath

rovert

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Coleman was too ignorant to move away from wrestling? But brock just chooses to utilise it rather then striking or subs? Ridiculous!

One dimensional, is one dimensional.

No you are wrong, it is not look into the training practices and outlook of the Hammerhouse vs Minnesota Martial Arts Academy.

It aint ridiculous.

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Im not attacking you btw, I'm attacking your blind adherence to the UFC/Lesnar hype.

Im not blind at all, Ive probably been following the sport longer than most on here.

Ive literally followed Brock from him leaving college on. I know what he can do. By reputation he is very open minded and a fast learner. It aint hype it is the truth his accomplishments speak from themselves.

Plastikman_eire

rovert wrote: »

All true but again he isnt the only one a number of reporters has said that the majority of UFC headliners use HGH.

So its all cool then?

rovert wrote: »

Im under no illusions about Brock's track record but I dont think in his prior fights he used HGH or anything else.

But you know that both Randleman and Coleman were using?

cowzerp

i wont name names but the HGH allegation was found to be true and turned out not to be illegal so this was not a rule break, please only report actual rule breaks and not stuff that just bothers you, please everyone get back on topic, which is about fedor-and lay off allegations which are pointless anyway.

rovert

Shazbot wrote: »

Yeah, and how did that work out for him?

Id like to see you do it.

He did it at 26 (6 years older than most other players) and made it to the final cut. He had offers to play in NFL Europe after.

It was a remarkable achievement, rather ignorant to think otherwise.

Shazbot wrote: »

You mentioned he was one dimensional by choice - however it's edited out now. ?

No it isnt

Shazbot wrote: »

Do you stand by that? If so, we have never seen Brock attempt to stray from wrestling in a fight. Yes he utilised some clinch work against Randy but not enough to suggest that it wasn't simply modified wrestling.

So I don't know where you're getting one dimensional by choice.

I do stand by it. Why should he stray from his bread and butter. Should he forget Wrestling and stand up to get knocked out little oh so many amateur wrestlers who fall in love with stand up?

Why would he employ a high jiu-jitsu coach if he wanted to stay completely one dimensional.

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

But you know that both Randleman and Coleman were using?

Where did I say they were using exactly?

cowzerp wrote: »

i wont name names but the HGH allegation was found to be true and turned out not to be illegal so this was not a rule break, please only report actual rule breaks and not stuff that just bothers you, please everyone get back on topic, which is about fedor-and lay off allegations which are pointless anyway.

All Im saying is that Brock hasnt been found using in MMA. It is a card that is always used against Lesnar despite so many other fighters having much better bodies at much older ages. While Brock has come into fights flabby a time or two.

Plastikman_eire

rovert wrote: »

No you are wrong, it is not look into the training practices and outlook of the Hammerhouse vs Minnesota Martial Arts Academy.

It aint ridiculous.

Sorry I dont understand what you are trying to say here.

rovert wrote: »

Im not blind at all, Ive probably been following the sport longer than most on here.

Ive literally followed Brock from him leaving college on. I know what he can do. By reputation he is very open minded and a fast learner. It aint hype it is the truth his accomplishments speak from themselves.

Ah now we're getting into it. A pro wrestling convert!!

All well and good being a fan because you like his work ethic, but blind fanboysim like you're displaying in this thread is another story.

Shazbot

rovert wrote: »

Id like to see you do it.

I've no interest in Amiercan Football so that's irrelevant.

It was a remarkable achievement, rather ignorant to think otherwise.

I never suggested that it wasn't a respectable achievement.

I do stand by it. Why should he stray from his bread and butter. Should he forget Wrestling and stand up to get knocked out little oh so many amateur wrestlers who fall in love with stand up?

Becuase it's mixed martial arts not wrestle to GnP. He should be competent on his feet and know enough to safely engage his wrestling. i.e utilise his stand up to open up a takedown. All I've seen his him shooting from stand up rather than opening it up.

Why would he employ a high jiu-jitsu coach if he wanted to stay completely one dimensional.

Better question is to ask "Why would he employ a high level JJ coach if he has no intension of using his teachings?"

He could have utilised this against Mir when he was GnPing him but didn't. As I said, it's one dimensional.

rovert

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Sorry I dont understand what you are trying to say here.!

Hammerhouse was almost laughably a one dimensional training camp. GnP or nothing.

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Ah now we're getting into it. A pro wrestling convert!!.

I was watching PRIDE when it was billed as Pro Wrestling....

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

All well and good being a fan because you like his work ethic, but blind fanboysim like you're displaying in this thread is another story.

Im not showing any fanboyism all Ive said is what can be backed up with fact. Others have chosen to chuck in jabs.

Shazbot wrote: »

I've no interest in Amiercan Football so that's irrelevant.

I never suggested that it wasn't a respectable achievement.

Your comment of suggests otherwise:
Yeah, and how did that work out for him?

His American Football background is pretty irrelevant. The only reason I bring it up is to show how fast he is able to pick up new things and at a high level. He isnt in love with the skill set he already has.

Shazbot wrote: »

Becuase it's mixed martial arts not wrestle to GnP. He should be competent on his feet and know enough to safely engage his wrestling. i.e utilise his stand up to open up a takedown. All I've seen his him shooting from stand up rather than opening it up.

He has done stand up and clinch work. Shooting for takedowns isnt all he has done.

Shazbot wrote: »

Better question is to ask "Why would he employ a high level JJ coach if he has no intension of using his teachings?"

Well firstly to defend against it and secondly to learn it when the time is right to use it. I just dont think when is time is done he'll be regard as a limited wrestler like Coleman and Randleman are/were.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I'm not sure what would be more interesting if Brock v Fedor was to happen, the actual fight or the fanboy fight.

rovert

baz2009 wrote: »

I'm not sure what would be more interesting if Brock v Fedor was to happen, the actual fight or the fanboy fight.

Is this before or after Batista beats Fedor:p

rovert

Digs up argument:

From an article Jonathan Snowden just wrote:

Lack of physical tools didn't hurt Coleman -- work ethic did. Coleman never took the sport as seriously as he might have, never traveled around the country to learn new techniques or train with the very best. The Coleman we saw run through Severn at UFC 12 had just as many techniques in his toolbelt than the Coleman who fought Randy Couture at UFC 109 thirteen years later.

All this brings us to Brock Lesnar. Is Lesnar going to be more like Couture or more like Coleman? It's an interesting question. Like Coleman, Lesnar can be a world champion and Hall of Famer with just a single superlative skill. But to be the best, he will have to follow the lead of Couture and Hughes, learning more than just the simplest escapes and reversals.

Couture's appearance at Lesnar's Minnesota camp bodes well for what kind of fighter the former WWE star intends to be. So does the presence of martial arts legend Erik Paulsen. The hip control we saw Lesnar use against submission specialist Frank Mir tells us he is more than just a giant looking to clobber his opponents into a stupor. There is science to go along with his brawn-and that has to be very scary for opponents like Shane Carwin.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/6/29/1542096/the-evolution-of-the-wrestler-from#storyjump

Read it then thought about this thread and laughed.

cardio,shoot me

you know i can google Brock lesnar is a tool and get about 200,000 results... the fact of the matter is, we havent really seen brock do anything other than GNP.

rovert

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

you know i can google Brock lesnar is a tool and get about 200,000 results....

Sorry but it isnt just a random webpage. Have you read Total MMA?

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

the fact of the matter is, we havent really seen brock do anything other than GNP.

Yep but evidentally Brock is more open minded to expanding his game than flipping Coleman and Randleman are/were despite the protests of posters above.

cardio,shoot me

rovert wrote: »

Sorry but it isnt just a random webpage. Have you read Total MMA?



Yep but evidentally Brock is more open minded to expanding his game than flipping Coleman and Randleman are/were despite the protests of posters above.

i have read total mma, and i stand by my point, any article can write as much sh1te as they want, i wont take it as fact just because its on bloody elbow.


and you say that about brock, but until he actually utilizes it during a fight, hes no less one dimensional than either of them,

rovert

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

i have read total mma, and i stand by my point, any article can write as much sh1te as they want, i wont take it as fact just because its on bloody elbow.

What did he write that was ****e? Dont let your dislike for Lesnar supercede the facts of the matter and the points Snowden made in the blog.

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

and you say that about brock, but until he actually utilizes it during a fight, hes no less one dimensional than either of them,

I dont just say many of Brock's training partners can actually be seen training with him. It is a documented fact.

Who did Hammer House ever bring in?

cardio,shoot me

i never said they wrote ****e, i was making the point that just because its in an article doesnt mean its fact

i dont know about hammer house as a gym but coleman trained with xtreme couture for his fight with bonnar

MarkJD

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

you know i can google Brock lesnar is a tool and get about 200,000 results... the fact of the matter is, we havent really seen brock do anything other than GNP.

Sigh, what a silly responce!

Of course you havnt seen him do anything the guy has had 5 Pro MMA fights, 2 have ended as TKOs, 1 has been a tapout to strikes, 1 has been a unanminous decision and 1 he lost to a tapout? What is it your expecting to see exactly? You want him to run around the ring trying flying armbars?

What has carwin done that is so remarkable? The majority of his wins have come from KO, most of which are him using his strength and wrestling to press openents up against the cage and throw some very strong punches. He has had 5 submission wins but again he has had 12 fights, 7 more than Lesnar has had.

I really dont accept or understand the arguement that people are using against the guy being 1 dimensional or comparing him to other fighters who have had alot more fights than him. Not liking him is one thing but your arguement is void and retarded stop using it. Dont like the fact he got a title shot after only 4 fights? Deal with it.. its the situation

cowzerp

rovert wrote: »

What did he write that was ****e?

The mention of him not been just a massive giant or something!

thats obvious and putting words in peoples mouths, he's a talented wrestler that can use his massive size to great effect-so far he has fought as a wrestler with GnP-so no matter what way you want to portray him, untill he starts fighting off his back, going for submissions, fighting in the clinch and use a bit of boxing and kicks he will still just be a wrestler with some understanding of the rest of the game.

rovert

cowzerp wrote: »

The mention of him not been just a massive giant or something!

thats obvious and putting words in peoples mouths, he's a talented wrestler that can use his massive size to great effect-so far he has fought as a wrestler with GnP-so no matter what way you want to portray him, untill he starts fighting off his back, going for submissions, fighting in the clinch and use a bit of boxing and kicks he will still just be a wrestler with some understanding of the rest of the game.

I think Snowden's point was a bit more nuanced that than. I like Coleman a lot and he is a legend but he never evolved by choice believing GnP is all he needed for a time he was correct but the sport passed him by. By the time he recognised he needed to evolve he was too old and his body just gave out. Brock at least has shown a capacity in other walks of life to learn new things and put them into action. I dont see MMA being any different. Quite obviously he is paying big bucks to fly in a whose who of guys. Last time I make this point I swear. :pac:

I seriously think there is a double standard operating here. With Brock and other fighters along wrestling versus all other disciplines. I think after the second fight a lot of MMA fans think that Brock is winning the "wrong" way again I'll go back to fans screaming "stand them up" when Brock was actively punishing Mir on the top. Ultimately a win is a win.

I dont see why Brock should foolishly like some other fighters dismiss his gound game for the sake of making a point. How many wrestlers have been knocked the f out for doing that?

I seriously dont know where this all Brock does is go for takedowns talking point is coming from. UFC Undisputed 2010?

MarkJD wrote: »

I really dont accept or understand the arguement that people are using against the guy being 1 dimensional or comparing him to other fighters who have had alot more fights than him.

More fights against lesser competition too.

Jason McCabe

One thing is for sure brock is a serious athlete and erik paulson and greg nelson are amazing coaches.

He has done a hell of a lot in a short space of time.

Given more time to improve his game he can only get better (if he puts the effort in).

I like the big guy and he brings charisma to this sport. That sells tickets and brings the sport on no matter what people say.

Plus at the end of the day. Talk is cheap and results are the only thing that counts. Not a keyboard warrior's opinions.

cardio,shoot me

why do you both keep mentioning that i have a dislike for brock, i think hes great, i hope he smashes carwin, im just not swinging off his nuts like you appear to be rovert...

rovert

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

why do you both keep mentioning that i have a dislike for brock, i think hes great, i hope he smashes carwin, im just not swinging off his nuts like you appear to be rovert...

Why do think Im swinging off his nuts nothing Ive said would indicate that in any major way everything Ive said is fairly verifiable it aint just me talking out of my arse at the very least Snowden backed up my argument a day later. Merely Im tired of the unequal treatment Brock gets that and it is fun making a case for him.

cardio,shoot me

rovert wrote: »

Why do think Im swinging off his nuts nothing Ive said would indicate that in any major way everything Ive said is fairly verifiable it aint just me talking out of my arse at the very least Snowden backed up my argument a day later. Merely Im tired of the unequal treatment Brock gets that and it is fun making a case for him.

what do you mean unequal? hes getting the same treatment every other one dimensional wrestler gets? stop making it out to be any different than it is.

cardio,shoot me

rovert wrote: »

I think Snowden's point was a bit more nuanced that than. I like Coleman a lot and he is a legend but he never evolved by choice believing GnP is all he needed for a time he was correct but the sport passed him by. By the time he recognised he needed to evolve he was too old and his body just gave out. Brock at least has shown a capacity in other walks of life to learn new things and put them into action. I dont see MMA being any different. Quite obviously he is paying big bucks to fly in a whose who of guys. Last time I make this point I swear. :pac:

I seriously think there is a double standard operating here. With Brock and other fighters along wrestling versus all other disciplines. I think after the second fight a lot of MMA fans think that Brock is winning the "wrong" way again I'll go back to fans screaming "stand them up" when Brock was actively punishing Mir on the top. Ultimately a win is a win.

I dont see why Brock should foolishly like some other fighters dismiss his gound game for the sake of making a point. How many wrestlers have been knocked the f out for doing that?

im not saying he should dismiss his ground game, or he should mix it up. If he can win his fights and keep his belt using gnp and wrestling, more power to him, but it doesnt mean he isnt one dimensional!

Plastikman_eire

rovert wrote: »

Why do think Im swinging off his nuts nothing Ive said would indicate that in any major way everything Ive said is fairly verifiable it aint just me talking out of my arse at the very least Snowden backed up my argument a day later. Merely Im tired of the unequal treatment Brock gets that and it is fun making a case for him.

I got the impression from this thread that you were a major brock fanboy anyway.

rovert

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

what do you mean unequal? hes getting the same treatment every other one dimensional wrestler gets? stop making it out to be any different than it is.

We dont have pages and pages on say Pat Barry do we?

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

I got the impression from this thread that you were a major brock fanboy anyway.

Im still objective despite being a fan. Nothing Ive said isnt rooted in fact.

cardio,shoot me

rovert wrote: »

We dont have pages and pages on say Pat Barry do we?



Im still objective despite being a fan. Nothing Ive said isnt rooted in fact.

pat barry is irrelevant

Sid_Justice

I love rovert, so so so deliberately obtuse.

rovert

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I love rovert, so so so deliberately obtuse.

How an I being obtuse here, seriously?

^ Dont make this statement prove your point. :pac:

Im not the one who thinks there is no reall difference between Lesnar and Coleman.

Zero-Cool

Class vid of the Gracies breaking down how Fedor got tapped.

http://mmalinker.com/videos/view/32307/Gracies_Breaks_Down_Fedor_vs_Werdum

rovert

sheehy83 wrote: »

Class vid of the Gracies breaking down how Fedor got tapped.

http://mmalinker.com/videos/view/32307/Gracies_Breaks_Down_Fedor_vs_Werdum

Seen this earlier in the week love the interplay between the boys it is classic.