England: The Post Mortem

Peyton Manning

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Congratulations.

event

Archimedes wrote: »

Just read quite a shocking statistic for English football.

Germany have 34,790 coaches that hold Uefa's B, A and Pro badges. Italy have 29,420, and Spain have 23,995.


England have 2,769.

Absolutely shocking.

its 6k for the course

a lot of ex pros might not have that money available to them

the FA should subsidise them, but of course they wont

blinding

John Terry was exposed as the average centre back that he is, without a fit Rio Ferdinand to bail him out.

Also I believe that Terry was detrimental to team spirit. He is such an idiot that he probably thought that he should not have been stripped of the team captaincy.

Witness the lack of enthusiasm from his team mates for his after match huddle after the win against Slovenia. The rest of the team knew that this was Terry doing his "performance" for the tv cameras.

With the loss of the Rio (possibly permanently) due to his injuries England need to find two decent centre backs.

_Bella_

From BBC

And it doesn't get better for England players. five members of staff at team hotel arrested and found guilty of stealing from the team

Chucky the tree

I don't think the UEFA badge issue makes any difference.

LuckyLloyd

event wrote: »

its 6k for the course

a lot of ex pros might not have that money available to them

the FA should subsidise them, but of course they wont

The B license costs nowhere near that much (less than €2k AFAIK). Academies / schools / youth clubs / professional teams should be willing to spend that much money on full or part time staff. A mate of mine did the B license (he coaches full time at schools / youth level) recently and he said it was absolutely exceptional in terms of getting you thinking in the right way about the game.

event

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The B license costs nowhere near that much (less than €2k AFAIK). Academies / schools / youth clubs / professional teams should be willing to spend that much money on full or part time staff. A mate of mine did the B license (he coaches full time at schools / youth level) recently and he said it was absolutely exceptional in terms of getting you thinking in the right way about the game.

sorry, i was on about the A license, but i was wrong on that too

someone told me it was 6k in the UK but dont think so now i look at it

the b license is €975 here and the a license is €1650

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I don't think the UEFA badge issue makes any difference.

When you have had a succession of England teams failing in the same way over and over, and the conveyor belt of talent is spitting out the same type of England International over and over - I'd say it is the key part of the debate.

What the B license teaches coaches is how to devise drills that impact on specific skillsets; how to better assess the strengths and weaknesses of individual players; how to have better rounded training programs where the ball is at a player's feet as much as possible. The more coaches at youth levels capable of working with players in such a fashion, the better the players t0 choose from at International level will be in 10 - 15 years time.

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When you have had a succession of England teams failing in the same way over and over, and the conveyor belt of talent is spitting out the same type of England International over and over - I'd say it is the key part of the debate.

What the B license teaches coaches is how to devise drills that impact on specific skillsets; how to better assess the strengths and weaknesses of individual players; how to have better rounded training programs where the ball is at a player's feet as much as possible. The more coaches at youth levels capable of working with players in such a fashion, the better the players t0 choose from at International level will be in 10 - 15 years time.

The talent isn't really the problem though. I'm sure extra coaches would help but it's far down the list of things to change in my opinion.

Mitch Connor

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The talent isn't really the problem though. I'm sure extra coaches would help but it's far down the list of things to change in my opinion.

It isn't extra coaches.

It is better qualified more, knowledgeable coaches who can better teach the kids, at a young age, the correct way to play football.

It is also about changing the mindset of the coaches, which would come with better education.

And it should be first on the list. there is no quick fix for the england side.

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The talent isn't really the problem though. I'm sure extra coaches would help but it's far down the list of things to change in my opinion.

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Most of the players are good enough, the selection and tactics continuously let them down.

event

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Most of the players are good enough, the selection and tactics continuously let them down.

so selection and tactics have let them down for the past 20 years?

lordgoat

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Most of the players are good enough, the selection and tactics continuously let them down.

Completely disagree with this. Some of the players are good enough. And what is most worrying for england is that the number of world class players they are producing is decreasing.

I think they will continue to qualify for tournaments and continue to do poorly in their eyes.

The problem needs to be fixed from grass roots up not the top down. From reading this thread i'm applying for my coaching badges, i figure 10-15 years from now i'll be ready.

Chucky the tree

event wrote: »

so selection and tactics have let them down for the past 20 years?

Luck hasn't helped either and being muck at penalties. :pac:


1990 - Semi final lose to eventual winners on peno's.
1994 - DNQ
1998 - 2nd round, lol bad red card against them and lost on penalties.
2002 - Lost 2-1 to eventual winners
2006 - Lose on penalties after playing a lot of the game with 10 men. Pretty sure they had a goal unfairly ruled out here as well.
2010 - 4-1 lose to Germany, shocking tournament.

Hardly the worst record ever that someone people seem to think. Like it or not teams need luck to win World Cups etc, England haven't had any. People wax lyrical about Spain but there record is appalling.

lordgoat wrote: »

Completely disagree with this. Some of the players are good enough. And what is most worrying for england is that the number of world class players they are producing is decreasing.

I think they will continue to qualify for tournaments and continue to do poorly in their eyes.

The problem needs to be fixed from grass roots up not the top down. From reading this thread i'm applying for my coaching badges, i figure 10-15 years from now i'll be ready.

I think so too. However getting another 20k people to do there UEFA coaching badges won't help if that's all they do. It's like pissing in the wind.

leninbenjamin

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think so too. However getting another 20k people to do there UEFA coaching badges won't help if that's all they do. It's like pissing in the wind.

I think you're missing the bigger picture here a bit. It's not about doing it for the sake of doing it, it's about the mindset and receptiveness to new ideas. I think that number is reflective of an insularity in English coaches, a failure to adapt, learn and develop themselves as coaches.

For example, in England the managerial culture is of former players. It's a relatively closed shop, job for the boys style. British managers seem to cling to the past a lot, "we did it this way, it worked for us so it will work for you." They seem very keen to impose their ways rather than adapting to the best of their players, Allardyce and MON being two supreme examples. Heck, you can even tell this from just watching the media analysis of English former players as opposed to foreign ones. It's a bit of a generalisation, but I think you find the most tactical insight comes from those pundits who came from outside the British system.

Bodhisopha

English players are brought through the system to play for English clubs, not international football. As long as there is an appetite for the rubbish football the Premier League produces England will continue to have these problems.

Ireland suffers too.

leninbenjamin

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Ireland suffers too.

Ah we're just totally ****ed. Some bright points here and there, but for the most part of it our grass-roots is going down the tubes. And for players outside of the greater Dublin area opportunities can be extremely limited

Chucky the tree

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I think you're missing the bigger picture here a bit. It's not about doing it for the sake of doing it, it's about the mindset and receptiveness to new ideas. I think that number is reflective of an insularity in English coaches, a failure to adapt, learn and develop themselves as coaches.

For example, in England the managerial culture is of former players. It's a relatively closed shop, job for the boys style. British managers seem to cling to the past a lot, "we did it this way, it worked for us so it will work for you." They seem very keen to impose their ways rather than adapting to the best of their players, Allardyce and MON being two supreme examples. Heck, you can even tell this from just watching the media analysis of English former players as opposed to foreign ones. It's a bit of a generalisation, but I think you find the most tactical insight comes from those pundits who came from outside the British system.

I think all of that is a massive generalisation. Look an Italian football, for all their UEFA trained coaches they've gone out in the first round and looking at Italian clubs Italian football is facing a very bleak future. The simple fact is weather conditions in this part of Europe make trying to play an attractive, passing style of football nearly impossible. Until that is sorted then UEFA trained coaches will have a minimal impact on the quality of players we produce.

keane2097

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think all of that is a massive generalisation. Look an Italian football, for all their UEFA trained coaches they've gone out in the first round and looking at Italian clubs Italian football is facing a very bleak future. The simple fact is weather conditions in this part of Europe make trying to play an attractive, passing style of football nearly impossible. Until that is sorted then UEFA trained coaches will have a minimal impact on the quality of players we produce.

Thinking the quality of coaches doesn't massively influence the quality of players produced is fully retarded tbh.

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think all of that is a massive generalisation. Look an Italian football, for all their UEFA trained coaches they've gone out in the first round and looking at Italian clubs Italian football is facing a very bleak future. The simple fact is weather conditions in this part of Europe make trying to play an attractive, passing style of football nearly impossible. Until that is sorted then UEFA trained coaches will have a minimal impact on the quality of players we produce.

Tactically, Italian clubs - even the lesser known teams - are lightyears ahead of anything England (or any of the other top European leagues) have to offer.

Chucky the tree

keane2097 wrote: »

Thinking the quality of coaches doesn't massively influence the quality of players produced is fully retarded tbh.

From a very young age it makes little difference.

Archimedes wrote: »

Tactically, Italian clubs - even the lesser known teams - are lightyears ahead of anything England (or any of the other top European leagues) have to offer.

Possibly so, but it's not doing them any good.

leninbenjamin

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think all of that is a massive generalisation. Look an Italian football, for all their UEFA trained coaches they've gone out in the first round and looking at Italian clubs Italian football is facing a very bleak future. The simple fact is weather conditions in this part of Europe make trying to play an attractive, passing style of football nearly impossible. Until that is sorted then UEFA trained coaches will have a minimal impact on the quality of players we produce.

They went out in the first round because they had a coach who kept falling back on methods that worked for him previously, but didn't really suit the players at his disposal. Exactly what I was giving out above btw.

parker kent

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere here today, there are more English threads flying around here than anything else so apologies if this has been up before. I saw Roy Keane give this interview on Sky today and he was spot on for me.

Manchester United legend Roy Keane has picked apart the players in England's disastrous World Cup 2010 squad and blasted them individually for letting down manager Fabio Capello.

The Three Lions came into the tournament as one of the favourites but were sent crashing home by Germany after falling to a 4-1 second round defeat on Sunday. While under-performing stars such as Wayne Rooney and Steven Gerrard have received their share of criticism, the bulk of it has landed on the Italian's shoulders.

Speaking to Sky Sports News, the Ipswich manager slaughtered many members of Capello's set-up and blasted their displays in South Africa.

"To keep criticising the manager is crazy. Capello is a brilliant manager," Keane said.

"The players have to look at themselves. They get away with murder.

"You say that the players are good individuals in the Premier League, but tell me who they are?

"I think Wayne Rooney had a brilliant season. You look at the goalkeepers, I thought David James at Portsmouth, they didn't have a good season and the other one, Green, at West Ham [United] they just about stayed up.

"Glen Johnson at Liverpool did okay, they had a poor season. John Terry had his issues, I don't think he had a great season.

"Chelsea won the double but that was down to some world class attacking players. Upson, who played yesterday, West Ham didn't have a great season.

"Ashley Cole's just come back from injury to be fair to the boy. [Steven] Gerrard didn't have a great season at Liverpool, James Milner had a good season.

"[Gareth] Barry I thought was very average for Manchester City this year. [Emile] Heskey started the season up-front for Aston Villa and he got three goals.

"You keep talking about these world class players, and they're not. Wayne has the best chance but he still hasn't done it on the world stage."

http://mobile.goal.com/en-india/news/140/world-cup-2010/2010/06/28/1999752/manchester-united-legend-roy-keane-gives-scathing-player-by

event

Chucky the tree wrote: »

From a very young age it makes little difference.




Possibly so, but it's not doing them any good.

no, but its helped win the national team two world cups since england have won theirs

Mitch Connor

Chucky the tree wrote: »

From a very young age it makes little difference

What the hell? How can you say the level of coaching makes little difference?

Chucky the tree

leninbenjamin wrote: »

They went out in the first round because they had a coach who kept falling back on methods that worked for him previously, but didn't really suit the players at his disposal. Exactly what I was giving out above btw.

Yes, and it's something you said was the problem with English coaches and I was pointing out it's not just English coaches that have that problem.

_blank_

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Ireland suffers too.

That's not up to the English to fix though. Until Ireland stop relying on English clubs to develop and maintain their best players, we are always going to be second fiddle to them. We are now, and we have never had better players, 1-11, than England.

Ireland, the FAI really, need to stop this talent drain to England, put money, real money, into the development of the game at EVERY level right here, make the top level of the national league an attractive prospect for players, entice them to stay here for longer. At the same time, develop proper coaches, not some amateur muppet who plays the big strong 13 year old, six foot freak. Someone mentioned upthread that "GET RID OF IT" is oft heard on Saturday and Sunday Mornings all over the country, and it's true.

Why though? The reason is that everyone wants to "win". The "manager" wants his boys to "win" the U12 Division 5C Title, so he feels good about himself, gets a few backslaps. The parents want Little Johnny to be on the winning team. If the manager tries to play a "fancy-dan" he is castigated for not playing a big lumper.

Quite simply, talent is sucked out of the kids here. Try a flick here and there and you are a fairy. This puts fellas off, why bother nurturing a talent if the stocky animal who kicks everyone from here to Tuesday is the one getting in the team every week?

It's a cultural thing, and it won't be quick in changing.

Chucky the tree

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What the hell? How can you say the level of coaching makes little difference?

Here what the UEFA B license entails.

the Uefa 'B' License. This takes 9-12 months to complete, taking in roughly 120 hours of work, often with a county FA. They start dealing with development of possession and movement to create space and other tactical issues. There is also a lot of theory: football, food and fitness, injury identification, sports psychology and player analysis. They will also take observed coaching sessions. In the professional game, coaches are expected to have at least the 'B' license.

How much of that do you think would be relevant to coaching an 8 year old?

_blank_

Chucky the tree wrote: »

How much of that do you think would be relevant to coaching an 8 year old?

They start dealing with development of possession and movement to create space and other tactical issues.

Instead of putting some fat, tall moron in the team, who can kick the ball really, really far, and push the smaller, actual skillful, kids over.

conno16

why does roy always have to stick his head in on these debates post a meltdown
if its not united, its ireland or england

if he had 4 or 5 CL wins as a manager maybe i'd be bothered

Mitch Connor

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Here what the UEFA B license entails.




How much of that do you think would be relevant to coaching an 8 year old?

you don't see how teaching an 8 year old to pass the ball and move into space would be more benificial than letting them have at it, as we see seek in week out, which results in 16 kids simply kicking and chasing the ball around we no real awareness.

You don't think teaching a kid from a young age how to control and pass the ball is going to be of benifit?

You don't think someone who heas learnt how to teach these aspects of the game (and various other things) is going to be a better coach to kids than Jimmys Da who is there cause he has saturday and sunday mornings free?

Also, why are you narrowing it to 8 year olds? why not 10 year olds? Why not 12 year olds? Or do you think all promising players at that age are already part of a professional club setup and therefor coached by one of these 3k qualified coaches?

Bounty Hunter

conno16 wrote: »

why does roy always have to stick his head in on these debates post a meltdown
if its not united, its ireland or england

if he had 4 or 5 CL wins as a manager maybe i'd be bothered

because like it or not others are botherd, hense reporters ask his opinion and hes an honest lad (not neccesarily always right but this he gives his honest opinion) and will give give his opinion on any issue when asked even if you think his opinion isnt relevant. Its not his fault that a newspaper of sports station will run with it.

Chucky the tree

Des wrote: »

They start dealing with development of possession and movement to create space and other tactical issues.

Instead of putting some fat, tall moron in the team, who can kick the ball really, really far, and push the smaller, actual skillful, kids over.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

you don't see how teaching an 8 year old to pass the ball and move into space would be more benificial than letting them have at it, as we see seek in week out, which results in 16 kids simply kicking and chasing the ball around we no real awareness.

You don't think teaching a kid from a young age how to control and pass the ball is going to be of benifit?

You don't think someone who heas learnt how to teach these aspects of the game (and various other things) is going to be a better coach to kids than Jimmys Da who is there cause he has saturday and sunday mornings free?

Also, why are you narrowing it to 8 year olds? why not 10 year olds? Why not 12 year olds? Or do you think all promising players at that age are already part of a professional club setup and therefor coached by one of these 3k qualified coaches?

Both of are hugely flawed methods of coaching kids tbh. Football should be a game of fun for kids, training should involve a couple of simple passing drills then straight into a game of 5 a side with little to no coaching actually needed. A standard astro rules about ball not going over waist height etc, but that's it. I simply picked 8 years old's randomly. Once they hit 13-15 they should be moved onto the next level.

Imhof Tank

England players believe the hype and would you blame them when the massive wages would seem to validate everything the English media says?

When things go wrong it then becomes a matter of “passion”, was hearing a lot of that sh1te from various quarters yesterday.

And never any lessons learnt either are there? One match which sticks in the mind was v Portugal in Euro2000 – after England took a very early 2-0 lead, Portugal switched to a 4,5,1 and Figo and his colleagues literally strolled through England’s 2 man central midfield 3-2 Portugal – Keegan could do nothing that day in terms of counteracting the opposition’s tactical switch – was probably hoping for some passion

Stan Collymore on Talksport yesterday had it spot on IMO – flair players are distrusted, tactical strategy not taken seriously, kick and rush and putting ‘em under pressure is celebrated.

Then you listen to pundits like Giles talking about how there is no such thing as a holding midfield player.

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think all of that is a massive generalisation. Look an Italian football, for all their UEFA trained coaches they've gone out in the first round and looking at Italian clubs Italian football is facing a very bleak future. The simple fact is weather conditions in this part of Europe make trying to play an attractive, passing style of football nearly impossible. Until that is sorted then UEFA trained coaches will have a minimal impact on the quality of players we produce.

WC Champions 2006, EC runners up 2000. They are a completely different beast to England in terms of what they have achieved at International level during the past 30 years. And there were similar predictions of doom for their future after 2004...

As for the second point, obviously the amateur / youth game should play a summer (March - October) calendar.

Mitch Connor

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think all of that is a massive generalisation. Look an Italian football, for all their UEFA trained coaches they've gone out in the first round and looking at Italian clubs Italian football is facing a very bleak future. The simple fact is weather conditions in this part of Europe make trying to play an attractive, passing style of football nearly impossible. Until that is sorted then UEFA trained coaches will have a minimal impact on the quality of players we produce.

so it is not how or what you teach, but when and where. Completely disagree with you.

conno16

the bottom line here for me is that english players are largely inferior on a technical basis in comparison to most european nations and certainly in comparison to the stronger south american teams

even mexico and the US seemed technically better to me

for example, most of the germans goals yesterday were initiated by poor control, poor passing by an englishman

germany pounced on mistakes and rightly made england pay

its simple really - not good enough
even fabio cant teach gareth barry how to control a ball and pass it within a second or two. watching the likes of him consistently muddle on the ball was laughable at times.
we all take the p*ss outa kevin kilbane
he wouldn't be out of place in that english side

Esse85

conno16 wrote: »

why does roy always have to stick his head in on these debates post a meltdown
if its not united, its ireland or england

if he had 4 or 5 CL wins as a manager maybe i'd be bothered

Because maybe he was asked.

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

How much of that do you think would be relevant to coaching an 8 year old?

You're out of your depth here a bit. These types of qualifications are MOST important for 8 - 14 year old kids, as the more structured ball based technical things they do, the better. Indeed, it is with young kids that we really need a sea change in attitudes. As Des says above, when talking about kids you are talking about vastly different paces of physical development. The football landscape at those levels is dominated by parents who play the biggest and shout and roar at them. It isn't good enough!

secman

The problem with english footbal is SKY
The money they have pumped into the game has done nothing to really bring the game on. Germany & Holland do not have huge money put into the game, they do not attract the " Mercenaries" as a result of this, their young players get a chance.

Sky even have them selves brainwashed....... BEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD.....WORLD CLASS PLAYERS.............. deluded people ! The premiership mainly has grossly overpaid average players FULL STOP.


Secman

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

WC Champions 2006, EC runners up 2000. They are a completely different beast to England in terms of what they have achieved at International level during the past 30 years. And there were similar predictions of doom for their future after 2004...

As for the second point, obviously the amateur / youth game should play a summer (March - October) calendar.

They have done better then England but their not exactly a model of success, no one really is baring the Germans and South Americans.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

so it is not how or what you teach, but when and where. Completely disagree with you.

It's obviously both, however you can't have one without the other. All well and good teaching you're average 8 year old how to develop possession in training but when it comes to putting into practice on a mud bath pitch that has literally been used as a grazing ground by a couple of horses all while someone's Dad is shouting a them to "get it out of danger and hoof it forward" because he's desperate for his little Jimmy finish top of the league so he cut it out from the Evening Herald and frame it on the wall.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You're out of your depth here a bit. These types of qualifications are MOST important for 8 - 14 year old kids, as the more structured ball based technical things they do, the better. Indeed, it is with young kids that we really need a sea change in attitudes. As Des says above, when talking about kids you are talking about vastly different paces of physical development. The football landscape at those levels is dominated by parents who play the biggest and shout and roar at them. It isn't good enough!

13 and up I agree they become more important, below that they certainly do not. Whats the South American coaching set up like? Do they have many coaches who've spend a decent bit of money on the South American equivalent to coaching badges? I'd be very surprised. Ozzie Ardiles was talking about how they got very little coaching at a young age, they were given a ball and told to have fun and enjoy a kick about. That's what it should be like. I agree with everything else you and Des has said, my simple point is aiming for coaches who all have UEFA B, A and pro badges is pointless if nothing else is changed. A huge structural overhaul needs to be done first and then their should be an aim to increase the number of highly qualified coaches.

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

13 and up I agree they become more important, below that they certainly do not. Whats the South American coaching set up like? Do they have many coaches who've spend a decent bit of money on the South American equivalent to coaching badges? I'd be very surprised. Ozzie Ardiles was talking about how they got very little coaching at a young age, they were given a ball and told to have fun and enjoy a kick about. That's what it should be like. I agree with everything else you and Des has said, my simple point is aiming for coaches who all have UEFA B, A and pro badges is pointless if nothing else is changed. A huge structural overhaul needs to be done first and then their should be an aim to increase the number of highly qualified coaches.

Of everything you've said, I couldn't agree more with this. The mentality of football is very different between England and their international rivals. If you read books like Morbo, Tor!, Calcio, Brilliant Orange, and particularly Futebol, you see that football is treated more as an art and a past-time rather than winning-is-everything competition it is in England. Simple things like retaining possession is seen as a chore in England, sure look at how we are quick to fap ourselves silly over Arsenal when they're going well, yet they are chastised for "wanting to be like Barcelona too much" when it doesn't. Unless an English team is winning (and even then its only ironic cheers) the crowd will start whistling and jeering for trying to keep possession. Look at how Michael Carrick gets berated for "passing the ball sideways" for Man Utd. It's not like this in other countries. It's not necessarily the tactics that are wrong. They are, but that's as a result of how the sport is treated in England.

gosplan

They bottled it ... and that's all you can say really.

Not one single England player was on form for the WC. Collectively, they were terrified.

Sort that out and then you can talk about how to bring through more technical players and improve the standard of coaching.

x in the city

OPENROAD wrote: »

Not too sure I would agree with him

Gerrard was at his best with supporting acts from Torres, Masch and Alonso,

without them.. he is lost in the English jersey

Same could be applied to Lampard, and Rooney even.

As a unit, the English team is a complete flop, they don't click at all. And they had no attacking full back, baines would have been a useful addition.

Compared to say Heskey, who contributed as much as a beckham.

Im out!

_Bella_

Do people think that England should start again and build up a new team in the Euro qualifiers with 2014 in mind, or should they keep playing the old timers for their qualifiers?

MisterAnarchy

secman wrote: »

Sky even have them selves brainwashed....... BEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD.....WORLD CLASS PLAYERS.............. deluded people ! The premiership mainly has grossly overpaid average players FULL STOP.

And the sad thing is all this talk about England will be forgotten about come September when Joe public will be feasting himself on such highly billed Super Sunday dross as Stoke vs Birmingham or Blackpool vs Bolton.
Andy the "Brain" Gray will be lecturing us on what the Diamond formation is and Jamie will be hooping and hollering about Nanis "swazz" on the ball or how comfortable Rio Ferdinand is on the ball (Something expected of almost every foreign defender ),all the while Werewolf Keys will be spouting his propaganda about how the EPL is the best league in the world .
Im growing tired after all these years of it .

_blank_

_Bella_ wrote: »

Do people think that England should start again and build up a new team in the Euro qualifiers with 2014 in mind, or should they keep playing the old timers for their qualifiers?

Catch 22 for Capello, or any new manager right there.

Drop the "Golden Boys of the Media" (Lamps, Gerro, et al) and start to build a team, or keep them in, stumble to the Euros with a patchwork team, get slated once again when they go out in the quarters or earlier.

England fans/media etc expect too much, too early.

If they bring in, say, Rodwell and he has a couple of bad games, it will do damage to his confidence and they'll shoot themselves in the foot again, calling for the old guard to come back.

One thing about Capello, he didn't seem to be influenced by the media, and stuck to his (ultimately misguided) guns in Heskey and not starting Cole.

They need a strong minded manager like that, albeit with different/more modern tactics.

OPENROAD

Love the way people are going on about hype, players being bigged up etc...


Roll on August and club threads and match threads on this board

eagle eye

There are huge problems in youth football in England, most of the youth teams in England play 4-4-2 and want box to box midfielders which is really pointless as far as their futures are concerned and leaves them unprepared for top level football where they have to be far more disciplined.