Eamon is right about Gerrard

CorkMan

He plays great when Xabi Alonso is behind him as completely a playmaker and Torres is staight ahead of him.

Put him in an England squad and that comfort zone is taking away, and he is presented with a completely new role that he doesn't function in at all. it is the same with Lampard (Essien, Drogba) etc

jesus_thats_gre

Well they have Rooney who is capable of playing the role that either Torres or Drogba plays. They missed Hargreaves badly and played the wrong system ultimately...

OPENROAD

This is going to be fun

flahavaj

Stop making threads lad, will you?

LuckyLloyd

Player performs without distinction when not played in his best position shocker...:rolleyes:

CorkMan

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Well they have Rooney who is capable of playing the role that either Torres or Drogba plays. They missed Hargreaves badly and played the wrong system ultimately...

But Rooney isn't even a striker completely some of the time for them, I wouldn't classify him as a Torres, Higuain, Drogba, etc. More of a Tevez.

tony1kenobi

CorkMan wrote: »

that comfort zone is taking away, and he is presented with a completely new role that he doesn't function in at all.

You are right......I'd say he is a sh*te goalie too.

scudzilla

flahavaj wrote: »

Stop making threads lad, will you?

There was me thinkin this was a forum :rolleyes::rolleyes:

lordgoat

I agree it is shocking that Gerrard plays better in his preferred position and doesn't do well wide left for england.

I just want to be part of yet another fabulous thread.

super_furry

Does the England match fall out really need another thread?

It's not exactly a surprise that if you play a player in his best position and then surround him with other good players, he'll do well.

Another epic

mike65

I'd like the see David James play as a striker cos he'd be better than Rooney.

flahavaj

scudzilla wrote: »

There was me thinkin this was a forum :rolleyes::rolleyes:

When I'm made mod tomorrow this place will make North Korea look like Las Vegas.

Ush1

Gerard Pique is the worlds best centre foward, fact. This is all.

Ush1

flahavaj wrote: »

When I'm made mod tomorrow this place will make North Korea look like Las Vegas.

Make a thread about it.

monkey9

If the team today had been a 4-2-3-1 formation, with Barry and Lampard in midfield, Joe Cole on the left, Milner/Lennon/Wright Philips on the right (one of those three before any smart remarks), with Gerrard playing behind Rooney, i think you would have seen a better performance from Gerrard and the team in general.

4-4-2 is just too rigid a system for the majority of players who don't play that way for their clubs!

OPENROAD

So are the pundits that tell it like it is correct about the likes of Gerrard, are they just ordinary players made to look better by the players around them

I'm confused re peoples opinions, seems to be a load of people saying that England are hyped up etc... but as soon as a specific player is picked on and one who plays for a club that a lot of people support, opinion change.

Ush1

OPENROAD wrote: »

So are the pundits that tell it like it is correct about the likes of Gerrard, are they just ordinary players made to look better by the players around them

I'm confused re peoples opinions, seems to be a load of people saying that England are hyped up etc... but as soon as a specific player is picked on and one who plays for a club that a lot of people support, opinion change.

I think he is over rated but is good at a very specific role with his club where he is basically untouchable. Good foreign players around provide nice passing and movement and Gerrard can run on and smash one in.

flahavaj

Ush1 wrote: »

Make a thread about it.

Diversion will be a bannable offence tbh.

Regardless of whether I know what it means or not.

Mitch Connor

Ush1 wrote: »

I think he is over rated but is good at a very specific role with his club where he is basically untouchable. Good foreign players around provide nice passing and movement and Gerrard can run on and smash one in.

England could have had the players to help their better players 'do it'.

a front five of....


.......Barry..Carrick

Gerrard..Lampard..Cole

...........Rooney

for example, would have got better out of their better players imo.

Carrick, unfortunately, has been rubbish all season and would have been no better for England. Parker might have been a good choice there though. Lampard could potentially be dropped for Gerrard to play central but then I don't think they have a good crosser of the ball for the right - I really think Johnson should have been brought but then he would have needed to cut to his left so may not have been the answer. Of course, Gerrard wide right is not his ideal position, but he has shown for Liverpool that he can play there and do well there.

Of course, it is possible/likely Rooney would have been as rubbish as he was anyway meaning that it would not have really aided him anyway. Lampard may have been just as ineffectual, same for Gerrard. Missing Rio (and then King) didn't help England at all either - Terry and Upson were a mess of a partnership - truly shocking.

Basically, I do feel england had the players to do better than they have done. I do think 442 was the wrong pick, just as it was for McClaren and Sven before Fabio. I honestly do think Fabio Capello made some bad managerial decision - wrong players called up, wrong formation. This is obviously not to completely excuse the players - they were shocking and should have been better regardless of everything else, but i do think Capello needs to take a good portion of the blame.

DB10

Gerrard is in decline, anyone who watched him regularly last season would know that.

But typically he was hyped as one of the many "world class" players England have at their disposal. Maybe he was a few years ago, right now, that is just crazy talk.

Yet we continue to hear "experts" claim " Gerrard etc "do it week in, week out in the PL, why not for England?"

Well lads, if you done your ****ing jobs, you would realise he hasn't done it week in week out last season and expecting him to some how carry England to the WC when he was shocking for Liverpool is shocking stupid.

CantGetNoSleep

mike65 wrote: »

I'd like the see David James play as a striker cos he'd be better than Rooney.

Did he not come on as a striker for the last few minutes for Man City a few years ago?

nacho libre

well the argument was that he wasn't as effective this season for liverpool because there was no Alonso. i don't subscribe to that view because he was a magnificent player at one stage without Alonso. I think he's just past it.

as regards to england's exit, why do the german players not stand out in the champions league and yet when they play for Germany at the World Cup they seem to excel and play as a team? is it possible that it means more to them playing for their country and that English players just don't gel when they play for their country?
although the latter point doesn't seem to be a factor because England qualified for this World Cup fairly easily. Maybe they just don't have the winning mentality of the Germans. As Hamman said, this was just another game for Germany, they always believe they can get to sem-finals and finals. perhaps deep down the English players don't?

parker kent

Mitch Connor wrote: »

England could have had the players to help their better players 'do it'.

a front five of....


.......Barry..Carrick

Gerrard..Lampard..Cole

...........Rooney

for example, would have got better out of their better players imo.

I think that team would have the same problems as the teams picked in the tournament. Cole and Gerrard would always want to move inside leaving gaping holes on the wings much like happened today with Gerrard(that Muller and Lahm loved). There is zero pace too in that team. Ozil highlighted that particular problem.

As you say, Carrick has been rubbish for a long time. Barry has never really impressed me as a top level midfielder either. Basically, England are severely lacking in several key areas.

nacho libre

parker kent wrote: »

As you say, Carrick has been rubbish for a long time. Barry has never really impressed me as a top level midfielder either. Basically, England are severely lacking in several key areas.

yes, Barry has proved he not an elite midfield player during this world cup.
Man City won't challenge the premiership hierarchy with him at the helm of their midfield.
England might have fared a bit better if they had a fit Hargreaves at this World Cup

jdooley28

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Did he not come on as a striker for the last few minutes for Man City a few years ago?

Yeah think it was stuart pearce's first game in charge.. it would have been some move if he scored!

gerryfields

I know this is not exactly what this thread was on about but does anyone know were i can get a copy of the irish star on saturday on line?

i'm in aus and i need to read an article Eamon Dunphy wrote about a friend of mine's mother

Xavi6

jdooley28 wrote: »

Yeah think it was stuart pearce's first game in charge.. it would have been some move if he scored!

It wasn't his first game. It was the final game of the season against Boro and we had to win to qualify for Europe.

Fowler missed a peno in the last couple of minutes as well.

stovelid

Even Alonso is getting in on the act: he said the very same thing in the Sunday Times yesterday.

dyl10

This World Cup aside, Gerrard is overrated.

Pro. F

OPENROAD wrote: »

So are the pundits that tell it like it is correct about the likes of Gerrard, are they just ordinary players made to look better by the players around them

I'm confused re peoples opinions, seems to be a load of people saying that England are hyped up etc... but as soon as a specific player is picked on and one who plays for a club that a lot of people support, opinion change.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record I'm going to give my two cents on this.

Lampard and Gerrard are not ordinary players. They are very good players. The thing about them is that they have a very narrow skill set. What they do well they do as good as anybody in the world. Their striking of the ball is up there with the best there is; their tireless work rate and positive attitude is outstanding (obviously forget about the WC for a second and Gerrard's nightmare season just gone) and their movement into the box to get on the end of every ball gives defenders nightmares. But that's all they do. They both have poor, unreliable close control and that's why they need the likes of an Alonso/Ballack/Essien supporting them, somebody who has the skills needed to reliably keep possession and provide the platform to launch attacks. When they try to do that type of work themselves they fail miserably.

Plenty of other players sniffing around the England midfield spots suffer from the same lack of good close control - Barry, Carrick, Parker, Hargreaves. Any English central midfield made up solely from a combination of some of these six players, whatever the formation, will struggle to use the ball well enough.

Having said all that, imo there must have been some other factor adding to England's problems this world cup. At the very least you would have expected them to be a better version of what we get with Ireland. I like Souness' theory of the high altitude training camp messing them all up.

The future for England is looking good imo. The likes of Rodwell and Wilshere are coming through and they have great technique on the ball. By the time the next world cup comes around England could have the perfect balance.