The drugs thread

Grindylow

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I'm going to humor you. My reason is this: by virtue of his lumping it in with other drugs, then stating that he'd never try anything like that, he implied that this reluctance was due to a common trait between cigarettes and all illegal drugs, which can only be the adverse health risks.

No, it's not the health risks. I find smoking totally unappealing just because I do. I can't give a proper reason why I wouldn't smoke, it just appears as disgusting to me. As for drugs (may I add I'm talking about illegal drugs etc, even legal head shop drugs, and no I am not including alcohol, just to clarify) I just don't see the appeal in them either. It's just that I simply don't like them. As for Alcohol, yeah I would drink it. Clarified enough for you?

Lawliet

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I'm going to humor you. My reason is this: by virtue of his lumping it in with other drugs, then stating that he'd never try anything like that, he implied that this reluctance was due to a common trait between cigarettes and all illegal drugs, which can only be the adverse health risks.

How thoughtful.

Implying common trait between cigarettes and illegal drugs =/= health risks

Noel has already said that his reasons are personal, and personal opinions aren't always based solely on facts. There are so many emotional and environmental factors that need to be taken into account to understand how a personal opinion like this is formed. So really saying the only possible link between drugs and cigarettes in someone else's mind can be health risks is a ludicrous statement to make.

If I can be the one making assumptions for a minute, it seems that you're looking for an excuse to debate something and Noel's post provided a decent segue into a discussion on the health risks of legal drugs vs. illegal drugs, so you're finding a meaning in his statement that he did not intent.

EuropeanSon

Lawliet wrote: »

How thoughtful.

Implying common trait between cigarettes and illegal drugs =/= health risks

Noel has already said that his reasons are personal, and personal opinions aren't always based solely on facts. There are so many emotional and environmental factors that need to be taken into account to understand how a personal opinion like this is formed. So really saying the only possible link between drugs and cigarettes in someone else's mind can be health risks is a ludicrous statement to make.

If I can be the one making assumptions for a minute, it seems that you're looking for an excuse to debate something and Noel's post provided a decent segue into a discussion on the health risks of legal drugs vs. illegal drugs, so you're finding a meaning in his statement that he did not intend.

My capacity to read minds, unfortunately, is as sorely lacking as your capacity to read posts appears to be. I'll proceed to take your post by paragraph.

Firstly, what I implied was that "common trait between illegal drugs and cigarettes" did in fact equal health risk, not "=/= health risk".

Secondly, I totally, without reservation, agree that "saying the only possible link between drugs and cigarettes in someone else's mind can be health risks is a ludicrous statement to make". Thankfully, I did not make this statement.

Thirdly, and finally, I ask what is the purpose of a forum except to provide a place for discussion? And as this is, unless my eyes have totally failed me, a thread about drugs, what is improper or uncalled for in me discussing drugs within it?

EuropeanSon

Noel2k9 wrote: »

No, it's not the health risks. I find smoking totally unappealing just because I do. I can't give a proper reason why I wouldn't smoke, it just appears as disgusting to me. As for drugs (may I add I'm talking about illegal drugs etc, even legal head shop drugs, and no I am not including alcohol, just to clarify) I just don't see the appeal in them either. It's just that I simply don't like them. As for Alcohol, yeah I would drink it. Clarified enough for you?

No, but it will apparently have to suffice.

Grindylow

EuropeanSon wrote: »

No, but it will apparently have to suffice.

What else would you like me to justify so?

EuropeanSon

Noel2k9 wrote: »

What else would you like me to justify so?

Nothing. I'd like you to justify the same thing, but in a more satisfactory manner, but as you've said, you "can't give a proper reason", so as I say, it'll have to do.

Grindylow

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Nothing. I'd like you to justify the same thing, but in a more satisfactory manner, but as you've said, you "can't give a proper reason", so as I say, it'll have to do.

Well like, I just hate the smell of smoke. It's really horrible like, I can't even stand in the same room as someone who is smoking. It's just a horrible smell! That's probably one of my main reasons for not smoking. I also know some of my relatives have died from Lung Cancer which was probably solely based upon their smoking habits, and that's also a factor about why I wouldn't want to smoke.

As for drugs? Well I don't know anyone who has ever suffered any health problems from taking drugs. But come to think of it, I don't really know anyone who takes drugs. I've never even seen any before, like. It's probably because where I live is very quiet,etc, but still I've survived up until now without coming into contact with them. The main factor pushing me away from taking drugs is just that I can't see any appeal in them. I don't see the point in being completely stoned out of it. Like you've only got one life, why spend it being out of reality?

mikom

Noel2k9 wrote: »

Like you've only got one life, why spend it being out of reality?

Reality, at times is highly overrated.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I've smoked weed and hash, would do again.
It's a nice change from alcohol as a high, more relaxed and not as jumpy and annoying as I tend to get with beer.:pac:

I prefer hash, though. Even if it has less of an effect than weed.

EuropeanSon

Noel2k9 wrote: »

Well like, I just hate the smell of smoke. It's really horrible like, I can't even stand in the same room as someone who is smoking. It's just a horrible smell! That's probably one of my main reasons for not smoking. I also know some of my relatives have died from Lung Cancer which was probably solely based upon their smoking habits, and that's also a factor about why I wouldn't want to smoke.

As for drugs? Well I don't know anyone who has ever suffered any health problems from taking drugs. But come to think of it, I don't really know anyone who takes drugs. I've never even seen any before, like. It's probably because where I live is very quiet,etc, but still I've survived up until now without coming into contact with them. The main factor pushing me away from taking drugs is just that I can't see any appeal in them. I don't see the point in being completely stoned out of it. Like you've only got one life, why spend it being out of reality?

Much better. The smoking reasoning in particular is eminently justifiable. The drugs reasoning I find somewhat born out of ignorance and inexperience (in particular lack of knowledge of what being "stoned out of it" entails), but I can accept it. Thank you.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

mikom wrote: »

Reality, at times is highly overrated.

I personally am fascinated with altering your minds perception of things. I just love the feeling of being in a completely different state of mind to sobriety.

Lawliet

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Firstly, what I implied was that "common trait between illegal drugs and cigarettes" did in fact equal health risk, not "=/= health risk".

I realize you didn't say "=/= health risk" because I said that. I wasn't quoting you or implying that you meant it, I was making a statement of my own!
For someone so quick to criticize my reading ability you might want to brush up on your own comprehension skills.

Secondly, I totally, without reservation, agree that "saying the only possible link between drugs and cigarettes in someone else's mind can be health risks is a ludicrous statement to make". Thankfully, I did not make this statement.

Since you appear to have misunderstood what I meant I will rephrase what I said including part of a statement you did make: suggesting that a common trait between cigarettes and all illegal drugs, can only be the adverse health risks in a situation where someone is talking about their own personal opinion towards illegal drugs and cigarettes is ludicrous.

Thirdly, and finally, I ask what is the purpose of a forum except to provide a place for discussion? And as this is, unless my eyes have totally failed me, a thread about drugs, what is improper or uncalled for in me discussing drugs within it?

I don't believe I mentioned anything about this discussion being improper or anything similar. I'm not sure why you assumed that, although it is funny given that I was criticising you for finding a meaning in a statement that the author did not intend.

EuropeanSon

Lawliet wrote: »

I realize you didn't say "=/= health risk" because I said that. I wasn't quoting you or implying that you meant it, I was making a statement of my own!
For someone so quick to criticize my reading ability you might want to brush up on your own comprehension skills.


Since you appear to have misunderstood what I meant I will rephrase what I said including part of a statement you did make: suggesting that a common trait between cigarettes and all illegal drugs, can only be the adverse health risks in a situation where someone is talking about their own personal opinion towards illegal drugs and cigarettes is ludicrous.



I don't believe I mentioned anything about this discussion being improper or anything similar. I'm not sure why you assumed that, although it is funny given that I was criticising you for finding a meaning in a statement that the author did not intend.

My statement was that it should be if they are approaching them in a logical manner. "They aren't appealing" is not a reason, there need to be reasons why they are not appealing. The only common reason that is applicable to all illegal drugs and to cigarettes in this case IS health risks, I believe, but feel free to provide another common trait, if you can.

storm2811

EuropeanSon wrote: »

2. My statement was that it should be if they are approaching them in a logical manner. "They aren't appealing" is not a reason, there need to be reasons why they are not appealing. The only common reason that is applicable to all illegal drugs and to cigarettes in this case IS health risks, I believe, but feel free to provide another common trait, if you can.

Also, sorry for posting again but Noel can speak for himself and has already said why he doesn't find them appealing, not only health risks but also the smell.

Why do you care so much about what other people strangers do with their bodies?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

EuropeanSon wrote: »

2. My statement was that it should be if they are approaching them in a logical manner. "They aren't appealing" is not a reason, there need to be reasons why they are not appealing.

So do you provide a logical reason for why you dont like certain foods? Or certain types of music? People like and dislike different things.

Davidius

EuropeanSon wrote: »

2. My statement was that it should be if they are approaching them in a logical manner. "They aren't appealing" is not a reason, there need to be reasons why they are not appealing.

Seems to me that the reasonable assumed state of something is that it's unappealing until it shows appeal, i.e. it evokes curiosity or interest. Something needs a reason to be appealing, not show reason to be unappealing.

EuropeanSon

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

So do you provide a logical reason for why you dont like certain foods? Or certain types of music? People like and dislike different things.

I don't dislike any type of food until I try it. Similarly for music, I don't dislike anything until I've listened to it.

EuropeanSon

storm2811 wrote: »

Also, sorry for posting again but Noel can speak for himself and has already said why he doesn't find them appealing, not only health risks but also the smell.

Why do you care so much about what other people strangers do with their bodies?

Ecstasy, for example, doesn't have a smell. Having not ever seen it or known anyone who takes it, he cannot say he has ever smelled Marijuana. Etc, etc, ad infinitum. That isn't a common trait. And again, we come to the question of what is the purpose of a forum if not to discuss things? Is it not reasonable to discuss people's opinions on drugs in a drugs thread?

EuropeanSon

Davidius wrote: »

Seems to me that the reasonable assumed state of something is that it's unappealing until it shows appeal, i.e. it evokes curiosity or interest. Something needs a reason to be appealing, not show reason to be unappealing.

If one can see the appeal in the intoxication caused by, say, alcohol, then one can see the corresponding appeal in illegal drugs. Ergo, as such a positive exists, there must be something that negates this and makes it unappealing, hence my logic.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I don't dislike any type of food until I try it. Similarly for music, I don't dislike anything until I've listened to it.

Fair enough but that doesnt mean you have to try every kind of food or experience-you can decide you simply arent interested in trying something. Noel has said he has no desire to smoke as he finds it unappealing, and thats his business.

EuropeanSon

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Fair enough but that doesnt mean you have to try every kind of food or experience-you can decide you simply arent interested in trying something. Noel has said he has no desire to smoke as he finds it unappealing, and thats his business.

We have accepted that Noel shouldn't smoke if he doesn't want to. I don't see what point you are trying to make.

Insect Overlord

EuropeanSon wrote: »

We have accepted that Noel shouldn't smoke if he doesn't want to. I don't see what point you are trying to make.

Why are you still pestering the poor kid if you have already accepted his points? Give the guy a break.

Davidius

EuropeanSon wrote: »

If one can see the appeal in the intoxication caused by, say, alcohol, then one can see the corresponding appeal in illegal drugs. Ergo, as such a positive exists, there must be something that negates this and makes it unappealing, hence my logic.

That's not an unreasonable assertion though I imagine the kind of intoxication experienced is different depending on the drug. It wouldn't necessarily follow that because somebody finds the high given from one drug appealing that they'll find appeal in other types of high.

I've never tried any recreational drugs nor do I know much about them so I can't make any assessment about what the differences between drugs actually are.

Carl Sagan

To people who say they never have or will try drugs, can I ask why?

Carl Sagan

This might have been posted before and if so, sorry for the repost, but it's relevant to the thread and comes from one of the top medical journals, so it's reliable.

GLOSSARY
Benzodiazepines: Wide-ranging class of prescription tranquilisers
Buprenorphine: Opioid drug used in treatment of opiate addiction
4-MTA: Amphetamine derivative sold as 'flatliners' and ecstasy
Methylphenidate: Amphetamine-like drug used to treat ADHD
Alkyl nitrites: Stimulant often called amyl nitrites or 'poppers'

Grindylow

Carl Sagan wrote: »

I have to say, EuropeanSon's posts started out so well but just diminished with every one. I was really interested in what Noel had to say.

To people who say they never have or will try drugs, can I ask why?

Well, for me, I guess it's just that I have absolutely no interest in them. Like I don't have a problem with anyone else taking them, it's just a choice of mine to avoid them. It's simply down to the fact that they don't appeal to me. It's just the same as cigarettes really, I don't see the appeal in either of them. Sort of like vegetables to me, I wouldn't eat them either! >_>

Carl Sagan

Noel2k9 wrote: »

Well, for me, I guess it's just that I have absolutely no interest in them. Like I don't have a problem with anyone else taking them, it's just a choice of mine to avoid them. It's simply down to the fact that they don't appeal to me. It's just the same as cigarettes really, I don't see the appeal in either of them. Sort of like vegetables to me, I wouldn't eat them either! >_>

Fair enough





....You really should eat your vegetables though! :pac:

KnifeWRENCH

Right. Let's try this again.

Be nice to each other, kids. Don't make me get the wooden spoon....

SarahBeep!

Is alcohol a drug? Yes.
Do I drink? Yes.
Why? Because it's well researched and regulated.

Is cocaine a drug? Yes.
Do I partake? No.
Why? Because I don't wanna die.

Pygmalion

SarahBeep! wrote: »

Is alcohol a drug? Yes.
Do I drink? Yes.
Why? Because it's well researched and regulated.

Is cocaine a drug? Yes.
Do I partake? No.
Why? Because I don't wanna die.

To be fair, lots of drugs have a lot of research backing the claim that they're not particularly harmful, and lots of people die in alcohol-related deaths >.>.