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Irish food and drink prices 30% higher than EU average

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    While this is a bit extreme, differences of 30 - 50% aren't at all hard to find.

    You mean between Lidl and Dunnes?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    In Ireland approximately 70% of food is purchased from a supermarket. The figure is similar to the UK, where the government has set up a Supermarket Ombudsman to protect consumers and farmers from abuses of power.

    Even assuming that the supermarkets are taking more than their fair cut, given that farmers in this country sell food at below the cost of production (and make up the difference plus their salaries from CAP), I would love to know what price food would be if the subsidies were taken away.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    taconnol wrote: »
    Even assuming that the supermarkets are taking more than their fair cut, given that farmers in this country sell food at below the cost of production (and make up the difference plus their salaries from CAP), I would love to know what price food would be if the subsidies were taken away.
    I'd hazard a guess it would get scarce for a while as farmers go out of business in big numbers and scarceness would then force the supermarkets to pay more for it.

    They always make a big deal out of selling "fair trade" coffee because it's sexy but don't tell you that they take a 30 to 40% margin or more on milk and cheese while the farmers who have to follow a long list of quality rules and regulations produce it for below the cost of production.

    Most farmers I know made a loss on milk in 2009.
    You can bet your bottom dollar that Tesco didn't.
    Farmers you see have no power to fight the likes of the big supermarkets.
    The farmers cows have to be milked each day twice.It costs a lot of money to do this.
    If they are not milked,the business would soon go down the tubes altogether.So they cannot strike.

    Theres going to be a profit for dairy farmers this year probably as prices paid to them have gone up by about 25% but really for your average 100,000 gallon dairy farmer,this means a profit of maybe €30k to rear a family and reinvest back in a business.

    The only cost the likes of Tesco have is the refrigeration,Glanbia even provide the labour to stock their shelves such is the bully power of a large supermarket and I'll bet they make way more than €30,000 on every 100,000 gallons they sell.

    They won't officially tell you of course.It's a secret :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 666 ✭✭✭deise blue


    eightyfish wrote: »
    That does not make any sense. The minimum wage is set by the government.

    The minimum wage is actually set by the Labour Court based on representations made by employers and employee representatives.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    deise blue wrote: »
    The minimum wage is actually set by the Labour Court based on representations made by employers and employee representatives.

    Set by the Labour Court then. Still the sentence I was replying to doesn't make any sense.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,329 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    I was in Super Valu the other day buying a particular brand of bread when they had a big yellow sign underneath it with Tesco's price €1.29, Dunnes price €1.29, SUPER VALU PRICE MATCH €1.29!

    PRICE MATCH? WHERE'S THE COMPETITION??!! :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    dogbert27 wrote: »
    PRICE MATCH? WHERE'S THE COMPETITION??!! :mad:

    Supervalu... small Irish supermarket in the grand scheme of things, have managed to match the price of their much bigger rivals Tesco and Dunnes - who have much more purchasing power.

    What are you looking for? Do you want Supervalu to sell it even cheaper than Tesco? How about Tesco use their massive might to lower their price.. to €1.19. Now you're going to complain that Supervalu is 10c more expensive than Tesco. What do they do? They match the Tesco price again, take a hit, so you shop there.

    The small guys in the market- Supervalu, Superquinn, convenience chains etc have no choice but to follow the behemoths of Tesco and Dunnes in terms of price.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,329 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    As in Super Valu - a Musgrave brand.

    Musgrave who had a group turnover in 2009 of over €4.5 billion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    dogbert27 wrote: »
    As in Super Valu - a Musgrave brand.

    Musgrave who had a group turnover in 2009 of over €4.5 billion.

    You local Supervalu is a franchise. And Tesco's turnover last year was over €64 billion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Benster


    So going by this new report, the National Dairy Council's plan (fronted by Paul O'Connell in the ads) to get people to buy more (expensive) Southern Irish milk is working then?

    Buy your milk from Lidl, it's from NI and cheaper. And it's still, believe it or not, milk. I had to laugh at the guff an NDC rep was coming out with in a radio interview a few months back when Sam Smith put it to him that milk is milk no matter where it comes from.

    Also, my local Londis sells 2 litres of milk for €1.29. The usual price is upwards of €1.70-odd elsewhere. Except Lidl. Both of these shops sell NI milk. The anomaly here is Tesco; they also sell NI milk under their own brand, but it's still pretty high compared to Lidl.

    Sorry for the rant, but it makes my blood boil when I see these reports and how they correllate with nationalistic, protectionist campaigns like the NDC's. We SHOULD be paying less for everyday items here but it seems these items have escaped the "We'll beat the NI price so you don't have to travel up there to shop" campaign.

    B.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    That would be the same Musgraves that is the largest retailer in ireland

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/musgrave-joins-league-of-worlds-top-retailers-119445.html

    Just a little bigger than your average corner shop i would say


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    eightyfish wrote: »
    Okay.

    What does this mean?

    "IRELAND- Glenbia and Kerry increased the fat and protein prices in April. Therefore the Milk prices increased compared to previous month"

    Coops no longer purchase milk simply on a quantity basis, Butterfat and Protein are measured constantly and the higher both are the higher price per litre the farmer is paid


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    OMD wrote: »
    Yes. Milk has dropped massively in price inthe last 2 years. I cannot think of anything I buy on a regular basis that has fallen more.

    Are you certain about this?? As far a I am aware the price for 2 litres has stayed the same at about 1.79 for the last couple of years

    There could be a few cents variation but to say it has fallen massively is wrong as far as i know, can you prove otherwise??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    Benster wrote: »
    So going by this new report, the National Dairy Council's plan (fronted by Paul O'Connell in the ads) to get people to buy more (expensive) Southern Irish milk is working then?

    Buy your milk from Lidl, it's from NI and cheaper. And it's still, believe it or not, milk. I had to laugh at the guff an NDC rep was coming out with in a radio interview a few months back when Sam Smith put it to him that milk is milk no matter where it comes from.

    Also, my local Londis sells 2 litres of milk for €1.29. The usual price is upwards of €1.70-odd elsewhere. Except Lidl. Both of these shops sell NI milk. The anomaly here is Tesco; they also sell NI milk under their own brand, but it's still pretty high compared to Lidl.

    Sorry for the rant, but it makes my blood boil when I see these reports and how they correllate with nationalistic, protectionist campaigns like the NDC's. We SHOULD be paying less for everyday items here but it seems these items have escaped the "We'll beat the NI price so you don't have to travel up there to shop" campaign.

    B.

    The problem here is the exchange rates, they came so close to parity that the northern farmers were comparitavely at a major advantage. Lately it looks like FX rates are heading a bit closer to normality so this advantage will be lost. I have worked out the rolling 12 month milk price for Northern Ireland at 21.85 PENCE per litre, according to the link i posted earlier the rolling 12 month average at Glanbia 23.62 CENTS per litre

    So somewhere along the line somebody is making a killing at the expense of consumers as the NI farmers are not getting paid less than the Southern farmers

    http://www.dardni.gov.uk/index/publications/pubs-dard-statistics/pubs-dard-statistics-milkprice-2007.htm

    Maybe boards should set up a little price comparison page where milk bread etc prices can be compared by location and by shop??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    The problem here is the exchange rates, they came so close to parity that the northern farmers were comparitavely at a major advantage. Lately it looks like FX rates are heading a bit closer to normality so this advantage will be lost. I have worked out the rolling 12 month milk price for Northern Ireland at 21.85 PENCE per litre, according to the link i posted earlier the rolling 12 month average at Glanbia 23.62 CENTS per litre

    So somewhere along the line somebody is making a killing at the expense of consumers as the NI farmers are not getting paid less than the Southern farmers

    http://www.dardni.gov.uk/index/publications/pubs-dard-statistics/pubs-dard-statistics-milkprice-2007.htm

    Maybe boards should set up a little price comparison page where milk bread etc prices can be compared by location and by shop??

    As far as I'm aware, any attempt to set up such a comparison site for products of that kind has been shot down by the various interests involved. I think the NCA tried it, but legal difficulties were made. That's why sites like UChoose.ie don't cover them, as far as I know.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Are you certain about this?? As far a I am aware the price for 2 litres has stayed the same at about 1.79 for the last couple of years

    There could be a few cents variation but to say it has fallen massively is wrong as far as i know, can you prove otherwise??

    Superquinn sell Irish milk at 78c a litre. It used to be well over a euro. I don't know how much the 2 litre carton is. Less I presume.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,605 ✭✭✭donkey balls


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    For a piece of meat to land in your shopping basket it needs to be grown, fed, slaughtered, processed and packaged and brought to the shelf.

    In that process you have drivers of trucks (that have mechanics and admin staff) and you have people working in the factories and people stacking the shelves, all on wages linked to min wage (if I earn 10% more than min wage and min wage goes up 5%, I want a 5%+ pay increase). Same for the production of the feed that the animals eat.

    Everything is linked to everything, and the minimum wage is the biggest artificial driver of costs in the economy of any, because everything is affected by it.

    tesco farmed out their distribution to an english company who pay their drivers the min wage:eek:.
    going off topic slightly for years a major retailer in Ireland both grocery&clothing imported all their clothing through Dublin port or by road to their distribution centers.
    they would then be picked wrapped and sent out to the company stores throughout Ireland, NI,England&spain by road/ferry.
    yet the clothing was still cheaper in these stores than in Dublin, and yet the company would us the transportation costs as a factor:rolleyes: for the clothing being more expensive here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    As far as I'm aware, any attempt to set up such a comparison site for products of that kind has been shot down by the various interests involved.

    The government needs policies to promote price transparency. They should oblige market leaders e.g. Tesco Dunnes etc to supply all prices electronically to a government run database. This would provide a benchmark for all other price comparisions. Not much chance of them doing anything this useful.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Are you certain about this?? As far a I am aware the price for 2 litres has stayed the same at about 1.79 for the last couple of years

    There could be a few cents variation but to say it has fallen massively is wrong as far as i know, can you prove otherwise??

    In Dublin, Premier/Avonmore 2L milk was €2.19 last December in Tesco/Dunnes and your Spar. It was €2.49 before that, now its €1.79 in all 3. As far as I know from memory, Lidl always had the same price as the other 3. Its probably cheaper down the country where you are.:)

    Incidentally these prices(on alot of foods) started to fall when Tesco changed their distributors in the last year. I despise Tesco with a passion but they have forced the others to drop their prices too but I think the recession forced Tesco's hand!!


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    gurramok wrote: »
    In Dublin, Premier/Avonmore 2L milk was €2.19 last December in Tesco/Dunnes and your Spar. It was €2.49 before that, now its €1.79 in all 3. As far as I know from memory, Lidl always had the same price as the other 3. Its probably cheaper down the country where you are.:)

    Incidentally these prices(on alot of foods) started to fall when Tesco changed their distributors in the last year. I despise Tesco with a passion but they have forced the others to drop their prices too but I think the recession forced Tesco's hand!!
    Thats still 250% more than what they pay for it.
    Last year Glanbia made a loss on milk aswell on a mark up of circa 20%.

    Thats it cartoned and stacked into tesco's fridge for no cost to tesco.
    So what they've done is cosmetic and of course they are walking on the producer who has no power.
    They are not saints.

    There was talk yesterday of forcing stores to publish their irish accounts.
    They keep them a secret in my opinion so as to bleet on mar dhea about their costs causing the high price :rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    OMD wrote: »
    Superquinn sell Irish milk at 78c a litre.

    And it's from the Republic. IE the profits at all levels do not go to the British economy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    ardmacha wrote: »
    The government needs policies to promote price transparency. They should oblige market leaders e.g. Tesco Dunnes etc to supply all prices electronically to a government run database.

    Teasco and Superquinn already do this, indirectly via their online shopping services. You can check any price at any time. Dunnes, and all the others, don't have an online shopping service.

    Incidentally- Tipp Man - I thought Supervalue was about the same size as Superquinn. I didn't realise it was actually much bigger.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Firstly, why do we always compare everything to UK prices? The sterling difference instantly creates all sorts of arguments. Why not just compare irish chicken for sale here, and the price of irish chicken for sale in say, France?? Why the UK?

    Secondly, it's mainly the middle man and the supermarkets creaming it. I know a family friend, who is a millionaire. His business? Importing fruit and veg then selling and transporting to shops all over the country. He has to get his cut from the price too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭nordydan


    As someone from NI living in Dublin, I would never have taken a second thought as to where my milk comes from.

    Since Paul O'Connell started his NDC campaign, I have taken his advice and I always now look for the NDC mark.

    And never buy any milk that has it.

    I only ever buy milk from Northern Ireland.

    And it tastes good..............:pac:


    Good hard-workig, God fearing Protestant cows. Not free state ones than whine on about property prices and road frontage.

    Looking forward to Stephen Ferris/Rory Besht's campaign in the near future...:cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 685 ✭✭✭jock101


    So are Vehicles, clothes etc... Whats new??? This State is taxed to the hilt. Its just people didnt notice or care when the cash was easy!:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    jock101 wrote: »
    So are Vehicles, clothes etc... Whats new??? This State is taxed to the hilt. Its just people didnt notice or care when the cash was easy!:rolleyes:
    Could you please point out to me how we are being "taxed to the hilt"? I'm genuinely curious as to why people think Ireland has high taxes. :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭beeno67


    Thats still 250% more than what they pay for it.
    Last year Glanbia made a loss on milk aswell on a mark up of circa 20%.

    Thats it cartoned and stacked into tesco's fridge for no cost to tesco.
    So what they've done is cosmetic and of course they are walking on the producer who has no power.
    They are not saints.

    You are saying that supermarkets buy the milk at 22.7c a litre, cartoned and stacked in Tesco's fridge. (22.7c + 250% = 79.5c) I am afraid that is absolute bull.

    On a seperate note according to ICMSA supply of milk exceeds demand by 8%. Why hasn't the price farmers get fallen further?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭Apogee


    4771225367_6abfd614c0_b.jpg
    Why we pay so much more for groceries

    Sat, Jul 03, 2010

    We pay more for our groceries than almost anybody else in Europe. Yet farmers don’t seem to be doing very well from the system as it stands. So where is all our money going, and how likely are we to get a better deal at the supermarket checkout? asks CONOR POPE

    IT’S HARDLY NEWS that the Republic is one of the most expensive places in Europe to live, but a survey published this week has still come as something of a shock, as it illustrates unambiguously just how much more it costs to live here than elsewhere in the EU.

    The survey, published by Eurostat, shows that we have the second-highest prices for food and non-alcoholic drinks in the European Union – we have been kept off the top spot by Denmark – and that, despite more than 15 months of deflation, prices here are nearly 30 per cent higher than the EU average. In the UK, by contrast, prices are just 3 per cent above average.

    Some of the top-line numbers are as shocking as they are inexplicable. Despite the fact that we make vast quantities of dairy produce, the Republic has, alongside Cyprus, the highest prices in the EU for milk and cheese, 37 per cent higher than the EU average.

    We also live in one of the most expensive places to buy bread and cereals, with prices an average of 32 per cent higher than across the EU. Meat costs 20 per cent more; you’ll pay higher prices in only four other countries of the 27 EU states. What has left many people scratching their heads is the fact that retailers in the UK can sell their meat, including much that has been produced in the Republic, at a price that is just 2 per cent above the EU average.

    It is almost impossible to get to the bottom of our prices, as there continues to be a chronic lack of transparency in the sector: the big retailers have consistently refused to reveal their profit margins here, claiming the information is commercially sensitive. Oddly, they seem not to be so sensitive about their profits in the UK; Tesco and Marks Spencer have no problem outlining their profit margins there. Considerably higher margins here may explain why some in the international retail game have dubbed the Republic “Treasure Island”.

    When it comes to cigarettes and alcohol the statistics are even worse, although considerably easier to explain, as the high prices are largely down to higher taxes. Alcohol costs 67 per cent more than the

    EU average – only Finland is more expensive – and we have the highest tobacco prices in the EU, at more than twice the average.

    How do we compare internationally? Finland, Luxembourg, Austria, Belgium, Germany and France have prices between 10 and 30 per cent above the EU average; Bulgaria, Romania and Poland have prices between 30 and 40 per cent below it.

    The reaction to the news has been entirely predictable. Government spokespeople have been on hand to trot out the line they have for all negative stories about high prices. “It is important for people to shop around,” they say. This is all well and good, but, with the big four retailers so keen on “price matching”, shopping around becomes almost pointless.

    Retail Ireland, the Ibec group that represents the country’s shops, has poured cold water on the survey with a haste that might be considered unseemly. Its director, Torlach Denihan, says the Eurostat figures are out of date. “Irish food and drink prices have fallen considerably since the survey was carried out. In the last year food and drink prices have fallen 8.6 per cent, but today’s figures do not reflect this. Irish food prices are now back at 2006 levels.”

    He says comparisons with the UK are also affected by the euro’s strength against sterling last year and the cutting of UK VAT rates. “Since the survey was conducted sterling has strengthened considerably, UK VAT rates have increased and Irish excise rates have been cut.” He claims that retailers have “responded aggressively to the new economic climate” and points out that labour costs, service charges and rents continue to be among the highest in Europe. He wants the Government to take “decisive action to get the Irish cost base back into line with the rest of Europe”.

    In the other corner are the farmers. John Bryan, the president of the Irish Farmers’ Association, says the findings confirm that Ireland’s food supply chain is broken. He points out that UK food prices are much closer to the EU average than Irish prices are, but British farmers “are getting a higher price than farmers here. It is clear there is an urgent need to restore equity to the food supply chain, with average farm incomes a deplorable €12,000 and the retail multinationals making huge profits.”

    Whether to blame our higher prices on bigger overheads or on retailers’ greed is an argument that has been raging for years, but it is not so simple, according to the Competition Authority.

    Carol Boate, its advocacy manager, describes the survey results as disappointing and says they indicate the problems that have made Irish prices rocket over the past decade have not gone away. “While there are eight big retail chains in the UK, there are only four main players in the retail sector here, so we don’t have the same level of competition,” she says. “Irish companies are not as efficient, and that is another sign that competition is not as strong as it might be.”

    Another significant factor is our planning policy. Walmart and Carrefour, two of the world’s biggest supermarket groups, have refused to open here because of restrictions on the size of the stores they can build.

    “We have found that the planning system seems to be skewed against competition and seems to focus on the negatives,” says Boate. “The planning system says we don’t want these giant supermarkets. If that is the policy, then we can’t expect the same level of competition. What we need to do is to work out how to tweak the system so it is more cognisant of the benefits of competition.”

    She says that farm prices are much the same as they were 20 years ago yet supermarket prices have climbed significantly. “That does suggest that there is more profit being made by retailers, but it also suggests other things. I don’t want to let the retailers off the hook – we certainly don’t have enough players in the market – but the polarisation of the debate between farmers and retailers is an oversimplification,” she says, pointing to inefficencies in the wholesale and distribution systems as other factors.

    Alan Matthews, professor of European agricultural policy at Trinity College Dublin, is unsurprised by the report. He says Irish consumers’ willingness to pay more for branded products, an absence of discount stores, the higher cost of doing business, a lack of competition, profit-taking and structural issues have contributed to higher prices. He says the higher cost of doing business in Ireland has been overstated by Ibec and points out that while general prices for goods and services are higher here than across Europe, food prices are higher still. “What is interesting is not so much that food prices are higher than the rest of the EU but the fact that food prices are even higher than [those of] general goods and services. There is something in the food market which cannot be explained by the general cost levels, which affect everyone.”

    He also says structural issues have been overstated and points out that high prices were uncommon until the mid 1990s. “We were still an island back then, and we could not benefit from economies of scale, and we had all the same structural issues we have now.”

    He is critical of the Competition Authority. “They were tasked to keep an eye on grocery prices, and they did produce a couple of grocery-monitoring reports, but then they stopped.”

    Food producers have been lobbying hard in recent months for a code of practice for supermarkets in Ireland. The IFA argues that a statutory code and a retailing ombudsman are needed to eliminate abuses by supermarkets. The Competition Authority is not so sure. “Our concern is that it might raise prices more,” says Boate “and it is not clear that it solves the problem. If the code is about making sure farmers get a better price, then who is going to pay that price?”


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    Great post Apogee

    So now who thinks we are not being ripped off by the supermarkets?? Face facts people we are being robbed, and what make it worse it that we are being robbed for items that we are some of the best in the world at producing.

    It is nothing short of daylight robbery


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Great post Apogee

    So now who thinks we are not being ripped off by the supermarkets?? Face facts people we are being robbed, and what make it worse it that we are being robbed for items that we are some of the best in the world at producing.

    It is nothing short of daylight robbery

    The question is why do you say it is the Supermarkets fault. The article quoted is not sure at all about it. Just looking at tesco prices today (From Tesco.ie) compared to prices from that Irish Times article.

    12 Eggs €1.67 Irish Average €3.12 EU Average €2.27
    1 Litre Milk €0.74 Irish Average €0.90 EU Average €0.66
    10kg Potatoes €5.72 Irish Average €7.00 EU Average €4.92

    By the looks of this it is the supermarkets who are keeping the prices down. In each case they are substantially cheaper than the national average and in the case of eggs they are cheaper than the EU average.


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