Irish food and drink prices 30% higher than EU average

eightyfish

OMD wrote: »

1 Litre Milk €0.74 Irish Average €0.90 EU Average €0.66

Milk is 74c in Tesco, Superquinn and Dunnes. Where do they get the Irish average from?

So taking the 29c figure from above, this means farmers get more than the European average for 1L of raw milk according to eurostat. The sale price is only 8c above the EU average, but our wages are the highest in Europe for every worker in the supply chain. I don't see what farmers are moaning about.

Tipp Man

OMD wrote: »

The question is why do you say it is the Supermarkets fault. The article quoted is not sure at all about it. Just looking at tesco prices today (From Tesco.ie) compared to prices from that Irish Times article.

12 Eggs €1.67 Irish Average €3.12 EU Average €2.27
1 Litre Milk €0.74 Irish Average €0.90 EU Average €0.66
10kg Potatoes €5.72 Irish Average €7.00 EU Average €4.92

By the looks of this it is the supermarkets who are keeping the prices down. In each case they are substantially cheaper than the national average and in the case of eggs they are cheaper than the EU average.

Really, did you check out the price of 1 litre of Avonmore milk at Tesco.ie or Superquin.ie? Well it is 1.14 per litre. so if they can sell their own branded milk for 0.78 cent and Avonmore for 1.14 and both are coming from the same place at the same cost then where is the extra 36 cent a litre for Avonmore going (its not to Glanbia)?

It is also worth noting that you selected the cheapest price and then question where the report got its price figure. Looking at Superquin's online prices for proper milk there are 3 options for a litre, own brand 78cent, Premier 99 cent and Avonmore 1.14. So the average price for each (assuming equal volumes) is 97 cent so even higher than the reports price.

Then you are going to ask why the own brand milk is cheaper, well the simple answer is that Tesco want to eliminate Avonmore etc from the market and then charge what they want for their own brand milk, see Tesco's UK for a prime example of this.

OMD

:P

Tipp Man wrote: »

Really, did you check out the price of 1 litre of Avonmore milk at Tesco.ie or Superquin.ie? Well it is 1.14 per litre. so if they can sell their own branded milk for 0.78 cent and Avonmore for 1.14 and both are coming from the same place at the same cost then where is the extra 36 cent a litre for Avonmore going (its not to Glanbia)?

It is also worth noting that you selected the cheapest price and then question where the report got its price figure. Looking at Superquin's online prices for proper milk there are 3 options for a litre, own brand 78cent, Premier 99 cent and Avonmore 1.14. So the average price for each (assuming equal volumes) is 97 cent so even higher than the reports price.

And did you check the price of avonmore 1 litre milk at your local shop. Now tell me who is cheaper? The rip off supermarket or the local shop.

Guy:Incognito

Nijmegen wrote: »

Except, our GDP is largely built on foreign direct investment, jobs that can ship back out again to the lowest cost economy in a container ship. Hello high costs, bye bye FDI, bye bye GDP.

It's still our current GDP though, regardless of what its built on. High wages = high prices, such is life.

If people want to fool themselves in to thinking they are getting everything for a pittance they shoudl go live somewhere with low wages.

Benster wrote: »

Buy your milk from Lidl, it's from NI and cheaper. And it's still, believe it or not, milk. I had to laugh at the guff an NDC rep was coming out with in a radio interview a few months back when Sam Smith put it to him that milk is milk no matter where it comes from..

I wouldnt agree with this sentiment entirely. Yes it's still milk, but it's not the same milk. I spent a lot of time in Germany growing up. I never took to the taste of the milk, and still dont.

Food from different coutries taste different and I like what I like.

Tipp Man

OMD wrote: »

The question is why do you say it is the Supermarkets fault. The article quoted is not sure at all about it.

Your comprehension of the article and mine seem to be at odds then because when i read the paragraph below it clearly indicates to me the blame lies with the supermarkets. We are expensive for everything but our food is even MORE expensive than the rest of Europe

Alan Matthews, professor of European agricultural policy at Trinity College Dublin, is unsurprised by the report. He says Irish consumers’ willingness to pay more for branded products, an absence of discount stores, the higher cost of doing business, a lack of competition, profit-taking and structural issues have contributed to higher prices. He says the higher cost of doing business in Ireland has been overstated by Ibec and points out that while general prices for goods and services are higher here than across Europe, food prices are higher still. “What is interesting is not so much that food prices are higher than the rest of the EU but the fact that food prices are even higher than [those of] general goods and services. There is something in the food market which cannot be explained by the general cost levels, which affect everyone.”

Tipp Man

OMD wrote: »

:P

And did you check the price of avonmore 1 litre milk at your local shop. Now tell me who is cheaper? The rip off supermarket or the local shop.

You clearly took the cheapest price when the article said AVERAGE

OMD

Tipp Man wrote: »

You clearly took the cheapest price when the article said AVERAGE

No you are saying the supermarkets cause higher prices. So which is cheaper. Avonmore milk in Tescos or in your local shop?

OMD

Tipp Man wrote: »

Your comprehension of the article and mine seem to be at odds then because when i read the paragraph below it clearly indicates to me the blame lies with the supermarkets. We are expensive for everything but our food is even MORE expensive than the rest of Europe

Alan Matthews, professor of European agricultural policy at Trinity College Dublin, is unsurprised by the report. He says Irish consumers’ willingness to pay more for branded products, an absence of discount stores, the higher cost of doing business, a lack of competition, profit-taking and structural issues have contributed to higher prices. He says the higher cost of doing business in Ireland has been overstated by Ibec and points out that while general prices for goods and services are higher here than across Europe, food prices are higher still. “What is interesting is not so much that food prices are higher than the rest of the EU but the fact that food prices are even higher than [those of] general goods and services. There is something in the food market which cannot be explained by the general cost levels, which affect everyone.”

Well that doesn't blame the Supermarkets.
Now try highlighting the rest of the article you quote.
"Irish consumers’ willingness to pay more for branded products, an absence of discount stores, the higher cost of doing business, a lack of competition, profit-taking and structural issues have contributed to higher prices. "

or the part where Carol Boate called for more supermarkets
“While there are eight big retail chains in the UK, there are only four main players in the retail sector here, so we don’t have the same level of competition,” she says. “Irish companies are not as efficient, and that is another sign that competition is not as strong as it might be.”

Or the part where Retail Ireland say
“Irish food and drink prices have fallen considerably since the survey was carried out. In the last year food and drink prices have fallen 8.6 per cent, but today’s figures do not reflect this. Irish food prices are now back at 2006 levels.”

Tipp Man

OMD wrote: »

No you are saying the supermarkets cause higher prices. So which is cheaper. Avonmore milk in Tescos or in your local shop?

There is only about 4 cent difference actually between the 2 and when you consider that Tesco is 1 of the biggest retailers in the world, gets to buy the milk for considerable less than my local shop AND gets up to 6 months credit from its suppliers and my local shop is lucky to get 1 month then you tell me that Tesco is not ripping you off

Maybe if Tesco's sold Avonmore milk considerable cheaper than the corner shop the corner shop might be forced to reduce its price also

Tipp Man

OMD wrote: »

Well that doesn't blame the Supermarkets.
Now try highlighting the rest of the article you quote.
"Irish consumers’ willingness to pay more for branded products, an absence of discount stores, the higher cost of doing business, a lack of competition, profit-taking and structural issues have contributed to higher prices. "

or the part where Carol Boate called for more supermarkets
“While there are eight big retail chains in the UK, there are only four main players in the retail sector here, so we don’t have the same level of competition,” she says. “Irish companies are not as efficient, and that is another sign that competition is not as strong as it might be.”

Or the part where Retail Ireland say
“Irish food and drink prices have fallen considerably since the survey was carried out. In the last year food and drink prices have fallen 8.6 per cent, but today’s figures do not reflect this. Irish food prices are now back at 2006 levels.”

Seriously have you read what you just quoted

Irish companies are not as efficient, competition not as strong, structural issues - translation the irish supermarkets are a cartel and won't undercut each other (ever seen the price match bull they try to con us with we'll equal each others prices but we won't beat them)

Hell they even mention profit taking in what you have quoted

And as for quoting Retail Ireland - they are obvisouly going to speak out against their paymasters aren't they

Irish food prices might be at 2006 levels but we might as well quote what Ms Boates had to say about prices "She says that farm prices are much the same as they were 20 years ago yet supermarket prices have climbed significantly. “That does suggest that there is more profit being made by retailers"

eightyfish

Tipp Man, your argument just doesn't stand up.

If Superquinn, a tiny supermarket compared to the monster that is Tesco, can cut out the middle-man and sell their own milk for 78c, say, while the branded milk is €1.14, how is that possibly the supermarket's fault? The difference in price is clearly due to the brand on the more expensive milk.

And supermarkets make a higher profit on all own-brand products compared to branded products, that is why they promote them so heavily. Therefore how is it their fault that the branded milk is more expensive?

Tipp Man

eightyfish wrote: »

Milk is 74c in Tesco, Superquinn and Dunnes. Where do they get the Irish average from?

So taking the 29c figure from above, this means farmers get more than the European average for 1L of raw milk according to eurostat. The sale price is only 8c above the EU average, but our wages are the highest in Europe for every worker in the supply chain. I don't see what farmers are moaning about.

Ah come on now seriously do people even read what they write, because the above is a pile of crap

Using your link can you prove to me how Irish farmers get paid more than the EU average???? (considering there is no Irish data for 2009) In 2008 which is a full data set Ireland is the 5th LOWEST for price paid to farmers with only Poland, Romania, Estonia and Lituania cheaper. Now would you care to compare the average wage of those 5 countries with Ireland??

Tipp Man

eightyfish wrote: »

Tipp Man, your argument just doesn't stand up.

If Superquinn, a tiny supermarket compared to the monster that is Tesco, can cut out the middle-man and sell their own milk for 78c, say, while the branded milk is €1.14, how is that possibly the supermarket's fault? The difference in price is clearly due to the brand on the more expensive milk.

And supermarkets make a higher profit on all own-brand products compared to branded products, that is why they promote them so heavily. Therefore how is it their fault that the branded milk is more expensive?

Explain to me how Superquin have cut out the middle men? Who is supplying Superquin with their milk? It must be coming directly from farmers if there are no middle men??

They set the price of 1.14 for Avonmore thats how it's their fault, there isn't much differnce in cost to them for branded and unbranded milk but yet they are robbing us of 36 cent on every litre of branded milk, THATS how they are robbing us

If Superquin is so tiny compared to Tesco (which is obviously is) why is Tesco charging the same for milk as Superquin (which is more of a premium supermarket anyway)??

eightyfish

Tipp Man wrote: »

Using your link can you prove to me how Irish farmers get paid more than the EU average????

Average price across the EU from that spreadsheet for 2009 is 26.74c. The article quoted above says the price paid to Irish farmers is 29c.

Tipp Man

eightyfish wrote: »

Average price across the EU from that spreadsheet for 2009 is 26.74c. The article quoted above says the price paid to Irish farmers is 29c.

Did you check to see that the article was from 2009 and used 2009 prices?

I can guarantee you that not 1 farmer, not 1 got anywhere near 29 cent for even 1 litre of milk in 2009

Why not use figures that are actually available to you as opposed to trying to compare figures from different reports when you have no idea how they are actually calculated

like i said use your Eurostat report to calculate the 2008 prices and then post it here

eightyfish

Tipp Man wrote: »

They set the price of 1.14 for Avonmore thats how it's their fault

Okay so you're telling me that Superquinn can buy in Avonmore milk for the same price as Superquinn milk yet they sell the Avonmore for a far higher price? Then why would they even bother producing their own milk? Why not just promote the Avonmore and make a load more profit?

If Superquin is so tiny compared to Tesco (which is obviously is) why is Tesco charging the same for milk as Superquin (which is more of a premium supermarket anyway)??

Because they have to, because people like us and people like Conor Pope compare the prices ever week and lambast the supermarkets that are more expensive. I only picked Sq because they're Irish.

Tipp Man wrote: »

I can guarantee you that not 1 farmer, not 1 got anywhere near 29 cent for even 1 litre of milk in 2009

So the price paid to farmers has gone up since 2009, while the retail prices have come down?

Tipp Man

eightyfish wrote: »

Okay so you're telling me that Superquinn can buy in Avonmore milk for the same price as Superquinn milk yet they sell the Avonmore for a far higher price? Then why would they even bother producing their own milk? Why not just promote the Avonmore and make a load more profit?

OF course they buy it for a similar price to Avonmore milk, in fact chances are it IS Avonmore milk in a different carton (I can't remember exactly which coops deal with which supermarkets)

Even if it is not Avonmore milk it is coming from some Coop which is paying the same/similar as Glanbia. Its not like there is a massive difference in price paid by Coops to farmers (couple of cent) in this country

So the fact remains they are making a killing on the milk (branded in particular) they are selling

Tipp Man

eightyfish wrote: »

Because they have to, because people like us and people like Conor Pope compare the prices ever week and lambast the supermarkets that are more expensive. I only picked Sq because they're Irish.

QUOTE]

So Superquin which is much smaller than Tesco can still match it for price and still make profit?

Cartel springs to mind but don't say it too loudly

Why don't Irish supermarkets publish detailed accounts??

Tipp Man

eightyfish wrote: »

So the price paid to farmers has gone up since 2009, while the retail prices have come down?

Think about that for a while and ask yourself how and why that is happening

(Answer the price paid to farmers bares no relation to the retail price, the profits made per litre of milk are so large that the fall in milk price in supermarkets has just dented their profits on it slightly)

eightyfish

Firstly, Tipp Man, this has been an enjoyable discussion I'm going to try and address your points civilly in one post, and hopefully leave it at that because I'm not sure where else the thread can go!

Tipp Man wrote: »

Cartel springs to mind but don't say it too loudly

I'll start with this. We've established that the Irish retail market is dominated by four companies, some much bigger than others. In order of size they are: Tesco, Dunnes, Supervalu, Superquinn. In any given retail market there are certain products which are footfall commodities. Just looking at one drink, three of them in the Irish market are tea, milk and sugar. These are the items that customers will go to a shop for if they are cheaper, as they are in everyone's weekly shopping basket. They are included in every "shopping basket" comparison in newspapers and advertising. Customers notice these prices. The supermarkets hope you come to them for the low prices on these things, and then buy other stuff that they make a higher margin on.

Now - in every market where there are big players and smaller players, the big players set the prices on footfall commodities. They have the buying power to reduce their prices, and in turn this affects what the manufacturers and suppliers prices are to the supermarket. The smaller players then have no choice but to follow the bigger guys - but only on footfall products. So therefore on some products, the big guys (Tesco, in our case) determine the price. This is basic economics.

Interestingly, sugar is not a footfall driver in the UK. So you will see that sugar prices are higher in the UK in general, even though no sugar is produced in Ireland.

Tipp Man wrote: »

OF course they buy it for a similar price to Avonmore milk, in fact chances are it IS Avonmore milk in a different carton

On this point, you are completely wrong. It is not that simple. Milk is an unbranded commodity, Avonmore milk is a branded product sold at a higher price to supermarkets. Avonmore sponsor the weather on TV3, and Kilkenny hurling. The advertising spend is to promote the brand, if it is sold at the same price as unbranded milk to supermarkets, then why bother advertising it at all?

The view that supermarkets somehow pick the price of Avonmore out of the sky is just incorrect. While it is true that the milk in the carton is probably the same, the products themselves are not. Supermarkets make more of a profit on all own-brand products as they take care of the packaging process themselves. This is also why they can generally sell own-branded goods cheaper. Avonmore is more expensive, but you are paying for the brand.

Also, this view that Glanbia is some sort of non-profit-making charity is wrong. They are a profit making company, and they have a monopoly on milk processing in Ireland. They buy milk at one price, but they will not reveal the prices they sell milk at to the various supermarkets. Glanbia pay the same price for milk no matter what product it goes into. Milk is the footfall driver, but they also make Kilmeaden and Yoplait, which is where they make their profits from the milk. They made a pre-tax profit of €97.4M in 2009.

The idea that supermarkets are "creaming it" (excuse the pun) and this is why prices are higher is, again, simplistic. Everybody in the supply chain is involved in the final price. As mentioned multiple times, the minimum wage for every worker involved is the second highest in Europe.

Also, Superquinn - our Irish supermarket of choice in this discussion as they are the smallest of the "big 4", had to let 400 staff go last year. Not exactly raking in the profits, I'd say.

peasant

eightyfish wrote: »

Supermarkets make more of a profit on all own-brand products as they take care of the packaging process themselves. This is also why they can generally sell own-branded goods cheaper.

So that would mean that Tesco somewhere have an own brand packaging facility where they pour milk, beans, sugar, crisps, hand cream and hundreds of other products into tesco packaging.

On closer inspection you will find that these own brand goods are packed at the same facility as branded goods ...just into different packaging

eightyfish

peasant wrote: »

On closer inspection you will find that these own brand goods are packed at the same facility as branded goods

Aye- I didn't just mean packaging.

MGLman

It is even higher if you buy more of a product in M&S Grafton street. one bottle of still water 1.5L is 0.49 euro. Now, if you buy 4 of the same water it is 2.09 euro. You pay more if you buy more, WHAT THE F*** ???? Anywhere to compain, sue or something for this ????

ZYX

MGLman wrote: »

It is even higher if you buy more of a product in M&S Grafton street. one bottle of still water 1.5L is 0.49 euro. Now, if you buy 4 of the same water it is 2.09 euro. You pay more if you buy more, WHAT THE F*** ???? Anywhere to compain, sue or something for this ????

Or perhaps don't buy it!

MGLman

ZYX wrote: »

Or perhaps don't buy it!

Yeah, just do not buy it. But what there are people who are buying it without realizing it? well if it was in a X-mas pachage I would not mind paying extra, but if it is in a plastic transparent package .... because of someone lazy and irresponsible, consumers are being ripped off...

ardmacha

Glanbia pay the same price for milk no matter what product it goes into. Milk is the footfall driver, but they also make Kilmeaden and Yoplait, which is where they make their profits from the milk. They made a pre-tax profit of €97.4M in 2009.

Is this true? Do suppliers of milk for drinking not enjoy a slightly higher price. This has to be available all year around, some other products use milk produced in peak periods (like around now).

eightyfish

ardmacha wrote: »

Do suppliers of milk for drinking not enjoy a slightly higher price.

Not sure what you mean by that question. Glanbia buy "raw" milk. They use some of that milk for selling on to shops, and some of it for making cheese and yoghurt which they also sell on to shops.

Sue Rocks

QUOTE]

So Superquin which is much smaller than Tesco can still match it for price and still make profit?

Cartel springs to mind but don't say it too loudly

Why don't Irish supermarkets publish detailed accounts??[/QUOTE]

Because they don't have to! Why would they. We have to accept the fact that Irish wage increases have driven the prices up over years and we are paying for it now

eightyfish

eightyfish wrote: »

The view that supermarkets somehow pick the price of Avonmore out of the sky is just incorrect. While it is true that the milk in the carton is probably the same, the products themselves are not. Supermarkets make more of a profit on all own-brand products as they take care of the packaging process themselves. This is also why they can generally sell own-branded goods cheaper. Avonmore is more expensive, but you are paying for the brand.

Well thats not true anyway.
The own brand milk is processed in the same factories as the branded and it is glanbia for example that supplies the packaged product on contract.
They carton it,and source the own branded cartons.

Also, this view that Glanbia is some sort of non-profit-making charity is wrong. They are a profit making company, and they have a monopoly on milk processing in Ireland. They buy milk at one price, but they will not reveal the prices they sell milk at to the various supermarkets. Glanbia pay the same price for milk no matter what product it goes into. Milk is the footfall driver, but they also make Kilmeaden and Yoplait, which is where they make their profits from the milk. They made a pre-tax profit of €97.4M in 2009.

All of that profit was made outside of Ireland in joint ventures that have nothing to do with irish business's or milk sales here.
If you look at the accounts,they made a loss on their irish milk business.

The idea that supermarkets are "creaming it" (excuse the pun) and this is why prices are higher is, again, simplistic. Everybody in the supply chain is involved in the final price. As mentioned multiple times, the minimum wage for every worker involved is the second highest in Europe.

again milk is hardly touched by Supermarket staff,it's stacked by people paid for by the supplier.
Secondly,if you look at the percentage of the end selling price paid to the often loss making primary producer

Also, Superquinn - our Irish supermarket of choice in this discussion as they are the smallest of the "big 4", had to let 400 staff go last year. Not exactly raking in the profits, I'd say.

Tesco purchase something like 60% of glanbia's milk so they are the dominant player here.
If superquinn had to let people go somewhere,it's more to do with Aldi and Lidl competition than anything else.

eightyfish

Deleted User wrote: »

The own brand milk is processed in the same factories as the branded and it is glanbia

I already said it is the same milk in a lot of cases. Incidentally Superquinn own brand milk is not Glanbia. Tesco, Aldi and Lidl own brand milk is not even from the Republic.

Deleted User wrote: »

If you look at the accounts,they made a loss on their irish milk business.

They made a profit overall. Are you saying that yoplait and kilmedan are loss-making brands?

Deleted User wrote: »

again milk is hardly touched by Supermarket staff,it's stacked by people paid for by the supplier.

This is not true in Superquinn's case - they pack their own brand milk. Same is true with Lidl and Aldi. Not sure about the others.

Deleted User wrote: »

Tesco purchase something like 60% of glanbia's milk so they are the dominant player here.

Tesco are the dominant force at the retail end.