Courier loses package - help!

Stevie Dakota

Bear with me please...

I have just bought a bike form a German company. Value €1700.

I phoned a Irish courier to collect it and thought no more about it.

They subcontacted the pickup to another big global courier.

The package was collected by them, scanned and then lost at a sorting hub in Germany.

It has now been declared lost so I can initiate a claim against their insurance.

Problem is that the claim is limited by weight, which will only cover 10% of the value of the item which has been paid for in full.

At no point did anyone inform me of the limited insurance cover and I made the assumption (maybe naively) that when you engage a professional courier company that they will deliver, and if they don’t you a refunded the cost of your package.

Can you give me an idea as to where I stand on this? I am incredulous that first a package of this size can go ‘missing’, then to be offered a fraction of it’s worth by way of compensation. It almost feels like theft.

Who do I fight and on what basis?

RangeR

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Bear with me please...

I have just bought a bike form a German company. Value €1700.

I phoned a Irish courier to collect it and thought no more about it.

They subcontacted the pickup to another big global courier.

The package was collected by them, scanned and then lost at a sorting hub in Germany.

It has now been declared lost so I can initiate a claim against their insurance.

Problem is that the claim is limited by weight, which will only cover 10% of the value of the item which has been paid for in full.

At no point did anyone inform me of the limited insurance cover and I made the assumption (maybe naively) that when you engage a professional courier company that they will deliver, and if they don’t you a refunded the cost of your package.

Can you give me an idea as to where I stand on this? I am incredulous that first a package of this size can go ‘missing’, then to be offered a fraction of it’s worth by way of compensation. It almost feels like theft.

Who do fight and on what basis?

1. Get EVERYTHING in writing. The fact that the initial courier subcontracted this out is not your problem. Write a formal letter of complaint detailing your issue and send it via registered mail to their head office. Tell them you are giving them 10 business days [2 weeks to you and me] to reply or you will have to take it further.
2. If they don't reply within 10 business days, initiate proceedings with the Small Claims Court. Will only cost you a few quid.

I have to admit, I'm unsure where you stand from a consumer rights point of view but this is how I would handle it if it was me.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

Stevie I'm presuming you arranged your own shipping rather than having the seller ship to you ?

If you arranged it yourself then unfortunately the vendor has no obligations at all. The problem here is that you did not get adequate insurance cover - the courier will argue that the contract entered was to pick up and deliver the item with the insurance having a clause limiting damages to a set price per kg etc.

The only angle I can see for you at all is if you were left under the impression that the shipment was fully insured (you say you weren't informed of limited insurance but were you sold insurance under the impression your shipment was fully insured) Did you sign an insurance contract ? How was the insurance described to you ?

jor el

Did you tell the courier company the value of your shipment? Did they have that in writing, or did you get anything from them in writing? Do the Irish courier that you contracted have a website, and are there any conditions for Insurance available?

It's unfortunate, but you may well have to take the hit on this one. Inappropriate insurance cover is a constant problem for people getting valuables shipped, but most don't notice until something goes wrong.

whippet

ouch .. I do really feel for you on this one.

As someone who deals with a multitude of courier companies on a day to day basis I wouldn't hold out too much hope for your courier company forking up the cost of the bike.

I ship very high value items through out Ireland and the UK and the cost of insuring packages even to a value of about €1000 is extortionate.

The company I am using now has a limit of €200 for any one claim, I can justify this as the saving I make on not paying for the higher insurance value on each package usually is more prudent than any actual loses incurred. Actually in 4 years of using this company only one package actually went missing .... turned up a few days later.

You may have a case as a consumer as opposed to a buisness customer to initiate a case in the small claims court, but personally I wouldn't fancy your chances.

foggy_lad

firstly your initial courier company here in ireland are who you deal with. you have no contract with any other campany.

does it state anywhere in their terms and conditions that they limit claims by weight? even if they do it may be considered an unfair term of the contract?

Stevie Dakota

Many thanks for the quick responses.

Hope this helps to clarify things...

Yes, I arranged the shipping myself, the bike was paid for in full. I am not pursing the bike vendor but the couriers directly as they lost the package.

The local courier company I called here is the one I use for work, all they wanted was the dimensions and weight, they priced the collection and I gave them the green light over the phone. They then subcontracted the work to a global carrier.

They knew the package was a bike but not it's value. Insurance of any sort was not asked for or offered.

No paperwork of any kind was seen or signed by me, we have used this local courier for years without incident.

The company they subcontracted to are the ones now offering to compensate me by weight which I have refused.

jor el

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

They knew the package was a bike but not it's value. Insurance of any sort was not asked for or offered.

There's your problem right there. You never told them the value, so they probably left it blank and assumed a bike would be covered by the minimum insurance values offered. A regular bike, €100-200, probably would.

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

No paperwork of any kind was seen or signed by me, we have used this local courier for years without incident.

You often wouldn't have any written contract for a courier. A verbal contract is enough, but you should have informed them of it's value, especially when it was so high.

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

The company they subcontracted to are the ones now offering to compensate me by weight which I have refused.

Sub contracting is common among couriers, and it would be the sub-contractor insurance that covers this, even if you do all your dealings through the Irish company. The fact that you never told them the value is the biggest issue though. They can't possibly have insured it properly without knowing it's value.

I think in this case, you are out of options.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

Hi stevie,

I'm afraid I don't think you have any recourse here other than trying to leverage your regular works business / dealings with the company - threaten to pull the account (if substantial and you have the authority of course)

Basically no special insurance was offered nor requested so from a legal point of view you have no case against the courier.

Stevie Dakota

I was under the assumption that by engaging a courier who tracks the package every step of the way (over standard post for example) that the package was in safe hands. This is what I thought I paid a premium for, safe delivery, as is so loudly advertised on its website.

I am most annoyed at the low level of cover, had I been made aware of this I would have proceeded very differently, and I think being shipping professionals that this should be highlighted to the customer.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

I was under the assumption that by engaging a courier who tracks the package every step of the way (over standard post for example) that the package was in safe hands. This is what I thought I paid a premium for, safe delivery, as is so loudly advertised on its website.

I am most annoyed at the low level of cover, had I been made aware of this I would have proceeded very differently, and I think being shipping professionals that this should be highlighted to the customer.

I'd be inclined to agree with you that advising on / offering adequate insurance would be a sign of professionalism but a lot of places assume that the customer will ask for it if they want it.

Stevie Dakota

What would be the advise regarding compensation?

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

That's a strange one tbh with you. Your contract is with the initial courier - if they sub contracted it out then the bigger carrier would normally compensate them who would in turn compensate you. Has the bigger carrier offered you compensation directly or is it through the middle man as such ?

whiterebel

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

What would be the advise regarding compensation?

If I accept the €180 from the global courier I assume that would negate the chance of claim for the full amount from the smaller courier who was my initial contact? Also if I go small claims I would miss the window of making a claim against the global courier which I believe is within 14 days.

Any thoughts?

Most, if not all couriers and freight companies will be limited by standard trading conditions. That is normally in the region of €800 per tonne, which sounds about right to what you are offered. Even big companies, who ship a lot have been advised to have their own insurance and ignore it. They are supposed to insure under their own all risks policies, giving estimated weights and values for annual shipments. None of which is any good to you, but its just to explain you won't get any better from the local courier. I'm surprised the global company is even dealing with you directly.

Stevie Dakota

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

Has the bigger carrier offered you compensation directly or is it through the middle man as such ?

The global carrier has offered this, I was talking to them directly. Tbh I feel it's a fob off, even if it is standard practice.

While I appreciate the arguments relating to insurance they were entrusted to ship an item which they lost. Their negligence has cost me potentially a significant amount of money. Had I been aware of, or declined the offer of insurance I would happily accept the blame, but the courier has lost the package and failed to inform the client of the importance of insurance. Its lousy service all round and I don't feel like I am in the wrong here.

Also would the larger carrier not have asked for a value of the consignment, is that not standard practice? And if so what did my initial contact say, did they just guess? At my expense? Should I not have been consulted at that point?

PS. I really appreciate all the advice, my frustration is not directed at you guys!

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

Hi stevie - didn't think for a minute your frustration was at anyone here. Totally understandable to be frustrated with this. I think you have a point about the for want of a better word negligence of the original courier. Most of the bigger carriers like UPS / DHL clearly set out their terms of liabillity when extra insurance isn't requested so they wouldn't neccessarily have batted an eyelid when your carrier did not request it.

MarkJD

Would the liability not fall on the local courier because they didnt request any insurance? Stevie didnt take his contract out with the gloabal courier but rather the local one...

So if the local courier opted not to get insurance wouldnt the blame fall on their hands? Or if the global company had asked if they wanted insurance why wasnt this relayed back to Stevie the original customer?

Bit of a tough one to be honest but id kick up a stink and fuss to see can you get anymore compensation. Just do it in a professional manner as your concerns and points will be better met.

jor el

MarkJD wrote: »

Would the liability not fall on the local courier because they didnt request any insurance? Stevie didnt take his contract out with the gloabal courier but rather the local one...

I think the liability stops with Stevie, because he never requested insurance in the first place.

thebiglad

Did you pay by Credit Card?

If so do you have payment protection with them - I thought anything purchased had a 30 day insurance automatically?

Run_to_da_hills

thebiglad wrote: »

Did you pay by Credit Card?

If so do you have payment protection with them - I thought anything purchased had a 30 day insurance automatically?

The Item would have been covered by credit card if it was the retailer at fault but dealing in a third party, courier is a different story.

thebiglad

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The Item would have been covered by credit card if it was the retailer at fault but dealing in a third party, courier is a different story.

I am not talking about initiating a re-charge but all items purchased on with a CC to my knowlegde have full insurance for 100 days (purchase protection?).

Hence if they are lost/stolen or broken in this period then they are insured - worth a check with the CC issuer?

Stevie Dakota

The credit card advice is good, but unfortunately does not apply in this case.

ejmaztec

Can't you cause a stink by getting the local Polizei involved in a possible theft enquiry at the sorting hub?

I'd be so feckin mad, I'd be on the next plane to Germany.:(



Bit like bolting the stable door etc, but helpful info

Chubb transit advice link http://www.chubb.com/businesses/cci/chubb1100.pdf

Stevie Dakota

ejmaztec wrote: »

Can't you cause a stink by getting the local Polizei involved in a possible theft enquiry at the sorting hub?

I'd be so feckin mad, I'd be on the next plane to Germany.:(

I've thought about it!

Run_to_da_hills

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

I've thought about it!

You could always write a song about the courier company loosing your bike and stick it on Utube.

It worked for this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

rock22

My girlfriend had a similar issue with a courier who transported boxes from Germany to Ireland. One box got lost and she was offered compensation based on weight.

SHe went to small claims court and was awarded the damaged she claimed on the basis of the couriers negligence.

The courier an irish company. If you have to go to court in Germany then I am not sure if you would win.

jor el

rock22 wrote: »

The courier an irish company. If you have to go to court in Germany then I am not sure if you would win.

The original contract was with an Irish company, so the Irish courts would be an option here.

Stevie Dakota

rock22 wrote: »

My girlfriend had a similar issue with a courier who transported boxes from Germany to Ireland. One box got lost and she was offered compensation based on weight.

SHe went to small claims court and was awarded the damaged she claimed on the basis of the couriers negligence.

The courier an irish company. If you have to go to court in Germany then I am not sure if you would win.

If the courier does not offer to compensate me adequately this is the course I will take. Many thanks for the encouraging advice.

whiterebel

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

The global carrier has offered this, I was talking to them directly. Tbh I feel it's a fob off, even if it is standard practice.

While I appreciate the arguments relating to insurance they were entrusted to ship an item which they lost. Their negligence has cost me potentially a significant amount of money. Had I been aware of, or declined the offer of insurance I would happily accept the blame, but the courier has lost the package and failed to inform the client of the importance of insurance. Its lousy service all round and I don't feel like I am in the wrong here.

Also would the larger carrier not have asked for a value of the consignment, is that not standard practice? And if so what did my initial contact say, did they just guess? At my expense? Should I not have been consulted at that point?


PS. I really appreciate all the advice, my frustration is not directed at you guys!

It really doesn't matter to them the value, because they are limited by STC's.
Your only hope is to prove negligence or theft, and really, how are you going to do that? Because members of the public only ever use a service like this once or twice, they don't think about it, but anyone using shipping companies on a regular basis either have it insured separately or have the courier company do the insurance on it. Harsh lesson, though.

whiterebel

Small claims Court is a very good idea. I hadn't thought of that.