8 Year Old Girl - Needs to be challenged

jordata

Just got the school reports this afternoon. My 8 year old got good comments for everything but her teacher says she needs to allow herself to be challenged. She does not find school work any real challenge at the moment. She does avoid situations where she may fail - sports and other competitions but I never really thought about it before. I guess the teacher is right. Can anyone suggest how I might encourage her to challenge herself? I'm at a loss. Thanks.

dan_d

Take up a musical instrument or a new sports club.
Can she join scouts/girl guides?

Just to start!

holly_johnson

I second the musical instrument. A great way for a child to learn new skills, improve concentration & co-ordination, and it's fun!

coffee_cake

As soon as I saw the thread title I thought musical instrument
It's a lifelong lovely hobby to have.
Maybe something like chess club as well?

LegacyUser

My son is exactly like this, so while I have no real advice, I'll be following this thread with interest.

No one has every phrased it like that to me 'he needs to be challenged' but that's exactly what he needs. If he's losing a race (at recent sports day for example) he just gives up half way through, he tries sports etc, but realises pretty quickly that he's not very sporty and his peers run rings around him. So he'll tell me he doesn't want to go anymore - he doesn't seem disappointed that he's not as good as other kids at sport, just thinks 'meh, what's the point'....

Sorry if it seems I'm hijacking your thread OP but it really struck a chord with me - last years teacher told me he had the attention span of a goldfish and that nothing really holds his interest (great teacher her..!).

Any particular musical instrument to those of you who suggested music??

mariaf24

It sounds like she avoids such situations due to fear of failure. I would suggest you encourage her and PRAISE praise praise her for any little thing she has achieved, it may be that she needs that extra push to increase her confidence. A musical instrument or a sport are perfect ideas.

byhookorbycrook

Praise the effort, not the result. Could she be exceptionally able?Check out www.giftedkids.ie

Nevyn

I have the same with my son if he can't excel and achieve h'll give up or not bother.
Been trying hard to explain to him it's not failing it's learning and each time he can do better. With bright kids a lot of things can come easily to them and they then hate things which challenge them.

As for what types musical instruments, I would say piano/keyboard or something from the woodwind section, recorder, flute, clarinet. They all require good posture and the wind instruments help develop good breathing as well as concentration, maths/music reading and sticktoitness.

mariaf24

Like your son,sometimes i think the children are right. We as adults are good to expect it of our children but not ourselves. Not learning a musical instrument never did me any harm :pac: I think every child has at least ONE thing they are good at and that should be encouraged.
Also OP, I work in education and I know that many teachers are very reluctant to give a 100% perfect school report (for various reasons)

coffee_cake

Unregistered wrote: »

Any particular musical instrument to those of you who suggested music??

Piano is generally the starter, as it gives you a good base to go from. Personally I love and adore my cello.

dan_d

I say musical instrument because I learned the piano as a child, and now I love it 9never remember a time when I couldn't play!) but I picked up the violin 2 years ago and it brings a whole new meaning to the word challenge!!!

A word of warning OP....if it's a case that she'll give something up when she finds she can't master it perfectly immediately, you'll need to sit and practice with her everyday for 20 mins or whatever. It won't come overnight and it won't come without practice.At the same time, I've noticed friends who are quite smart and have no hobbies at all because they don't do things unless they can do them perfectly the first time, and they've given up everything as a result.Giving up then becomes their first reaction to everything, as nobody has ever made them stick anything out through their lives.

Another alternative could be swimming if she doesn't already swim, and in a couple of years, maybe find out if there's a lifesaving club near you?? It's very interactive and good fun, along with the fact that it'll teach her invaluable skills for life (CPR etc).

jordata

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Will get her to pick something from the suggestions above. Love to be able to afford a piano and lessons as I did that myself as a child. Loved it tho I was useless! Back to the drawing board to find something suitable.

Sleepy

Could have done with this myself when I was a little fella! Still find it hard to pursue something I'm not much use at...

While I'd second the musical instrument suggestion, how about less-competitive sports? Water Safety / Life Guarding, Kayaking, Diving, Sailing, Surfing, Martial Arts etc.?

LegacyUser

I disagree wholeheartedly with mariaf24 - and agree with byhookorbycrook.

Children who receive too much praise for outcomes (good drawing! good running! good story!) and are not praised for effort end up shying away from anything that does not affirm their "natural ability" to be good at something. There are a LOT of studies that show children praised simply for being good/clever etc actually give up a lot faster because NOT succeeding does not reinforce the fact that they are good/clever etc - if you can get praise for little effort, why bother with effort in the first place.

Conversely, children who are praised for the effort they put into tasks are usually more willing to take on harder challenges, because they know that it's not the outcome that is praised, it's how much they work at something.

It takes a big shift in language to go from simply saying to a toddler "good drawing" to "I liked how you worked hard at that colouring in" etc - or for an 8 year old, rather than saying "good story!" to "tell me how you came up with that story? I like your description of the character - how did you decide on their hair colour/personality etc"....indeed, it means we actually have to engage with our children more than a quick - and really very dismissive - "good INSERT OUTCOME HERE".

And as children get older and certainly as adults, they start to regard empty praise as just that - empty. Just look at contestants on American Idol or X-Factor - they listen to Simon Cowell's harsh critique more than they listen to the fluffy comments from a Cheryl Cole etc. They trust and listen to someone who engages rather than someone who says everyone is "great" and they "love" everyone.

If you want your daughter to take on challenges, start rewarding her effort, not the outcome. If she tries something and doesnt succeed, don't commiserate the outcome, talk about how she went about the task, ask her about other ways she can think of to go about it, and encourage her to try again using another strategy. You can google these ideas and look for specific ways of being able to encourage her.

The idea that simple praise = self-esteem/confidence is very 1970s and no longer holds for many educational/developmental psychologists.

gaeilgegrinds1

Many eldest children act this way. My own mother claims I did! Music was my release, I'd suggest piano only I always found it a pain not being able to bring it around with me, violin is pretty cool too. How about joining reading clubs in the local library? Or even scouts or girl guides or one of those? Best of luck.
An aside from all that, mother claims household tasks helped me. Just don't criticise the result. Just an idea...

Stheno

I am an eldest child and coasted through school, had numerous hobbies (music (piano, recorder, drums)), sports, too many to mention, debating, running the school bank, all those different challenges.

But the thing I most remember from my childhood as something that taught me well in terms of the adult world, and gave me skills in formulating argument and learning to think for myself was very very simple.

My dad used sit down with me every evening, and we'd read the evening herald together, and discuss the articles in it about the North, general news, crime, politics, the lot.

Now my dad was from the North and my parents had a shop opposite Portlaoise prison and I worked in the shop from the age of about six, so that possibly slanted my perspective but I adored those chats with my dad, and they enabled me to talk to other adults and get their perspective.

As well as that my dad and I had a shared love of sports, our year was nearly dominated by what was happening in soccer/GAA/tennis/rugby.

Cheap? Yes. Effective? Yes. An outlet for a child with an ever enquiring mind? Yes. A means to allow a child to realise that they don't know everything? Yes.

It mightn't have been the most sophisticated thing ever, but it is definitely my most cherished memory of my childhood, from a very young age my dad coming home, having his dinner, then he and I would "mind" the shop together and discuss the days affairs.

Just my two cents I too was awkward at team sports, hated failing (and still do!) but that foundation from my dad was invaluable.

Interestingly I tend to be good with nerdy/kooky kids who have a different perspective on things now, and enjoy that interaction, and dealing with all sorts of left of field stuff coming out now, possibly a bit of empathy there
By the way if you potentially have a gifted child who coasts through school with a minimum of effort, there is an organisation (whose name I cannot remember) who cater for such children. I dropped out of college when my ability to retain huge amounts of information to pass exams was not enough, and I'd not the discipline to do continuous assessment, the organisation I am thinking of help develop those skills within the boundaries of childrens abilities.

Best of luck!

Deliverance

jordata wrote: »

Just got the school reports this afternoon. My 8 year old got good comments for everything but her teacher says she needs to allow herself to be challenged. She does not find school work any real challenge at the moment. She does avoid situations where she may fail - sports and other competitions but I never really thought about it before. I guess the teacher is right. Can anyone suggest how I might encourage her to challenge herself? I'm at a loss. Thanks.

Motivation and reward? I was the same myself, I over achieved personally but didnt want to reveal it to the teachers and the parents as it could have led to more work and expectation.

Spent many an hour working on mathematicall theorems and loving them on my own I loved how they worked. Hid that 'talent' from teachers and parents sucessfully. I did not want them expecting to much so just sailed through school easily and passed with a modicum of expectation as planned.

Showed up late for exams and missed some as well. Still passed them all despite having a reputation as a skiver and a rebel.

I avoided the attention easily, I suspect a fear of failure was an issue though, sailed in and out of the exams and did what I needed to 'pass' without drawing attention. That was easy to do.

Tis all about the confidence really. I found the anxiety of knowing to much and being a more than able singled out student (teachers reports annoyingly said this) a potential burden at the time as a kid. So I played it well, still do in some ways.

I see my own child going through the same process, like father like daughter. I'm in the process of helping her not to fail purposely in the same way I did. Tis a hard task though;)

I suppose the key is to provide motivation and reward over the potential pressure of just being first and winning. Winning is easy for such kids, the podium and attention is much harder. I avoided the podium well, really did not want the attention and pressure.

An analogy that I have thought about this issue is: A person who takes on a marathon: They take on the marathon as a life achievement. They do not take it on to win. Finishing the event is the key to the attitude of the person that runs / walks it. That is what is really about, crossing the finishing line as an achievement without the pressure of being first. That feels good and that is the real goal.

To me I think I will hopefully teach my child how to finish a particular goad over competitive winning. This thread has taught me that and made me realise that. Thanks.

mariaf24

waryoftoomuchpriase wrote: »

I disagree wholeheartedly with mariaf24 - and agree with byhookorbycrook.

Children who receive too much praise for outcomes (good drawing! good running! good story!) and are not praised for effort end up shying away from anything that does not affirm their "natural ability" to be good at something. There are a LOT of studies that show children praised simply for being good/clever etc actually give up a lot faster because NOT succeeding does not reinforce the fact that they are good/clever etc - if you can get praise for little effort, why bother with effort in the first place.

Conversely, children who are praised for the effort they put into tasks are usually more willing to take on harder challenges, because they know that it's not the outcome that is praised, it's how much they work at something.

It takes a big shift in language to go from simply saying to a toddler "good drawing" to "I liked how you worked hard at that colouring in" etc - or for an 8 year old, rather than saying "good story!" to "tell me how you came up with that story? I like your description of the character - how did you decide on their hair colour/personality etc"....indeed, it means we actually have to engage with our children more than a quick - and really very dismissive - "good INSERT OUTCOME HERE".

And as children get older and certainly as adults, they start to regard empty praise as just that - empty. Just look at contestants on American Idol or X-Factor - they listen to Simon Cowell's harsh critique more than they listen to the fluffy comments from a Cheryl Cole etc. They trust and listen to someone who engages rather than someone who says everyone is "great" and they "love" everyone.

If you want your daughter to take on challenges, start rewarding her effort, not the outcome. If she tries something and doesnt succeed, don't commiserate the outcome, talk about how she went about the task, ask her about other ways she can think of to go about it, and encourage her to try again using another strategy. You can google these ideas and look for specific ways of being able to encourage her.

The idea that simple praise = self-esteem/confidence is very 1970s and no longer holds for many educational/developmental psychologists.

Good drawing! Good running! Good story!

My daughter is 6 and i think I praise her from how she bruses her teeth in the morning to how she packs her schoolbag. I don't purposely do it, It comes automatically because I am genuinely genuinely proud and amazed by her. I don't think there's such thing as too much praise!

Also, I suppose I was just trying to reassure the OP by saying that I know alot of teachers will want to report at least one fault in the report as it shows parents it is personalised and she has offered a recommendation.

Kooli

I was like this as a kid (would give up if I wasn't good at something) and I think I'd put it down to something similar to the 'over-praising'.

Basically if I said that I wasn't good at something, or got frustrated cos I couldn't do something, my parents' automatic response was 'Of course you can do it', or 'Don't be silly, you'll do great!', or 'You just need to practice more'. Harmless things to say, but the underlying implication (in a child's eyes) could be that failure isn't really an option!

I think what I needed to hear was 'Sure so what if you're rubbish at it?', or 'Just see how it goes and enjoy it, no harm if it goes wrong'.

I think I needed it to be made explicit that it was OK for me to be bad at stuff!! As a kid, I was good at most stuff, which meant people assumed I was good at everything, and because the option of being bad or the worst at something didn't seem to be acceptable (although of course that's not how my parents saw it, they wouldn't have realised that was how I was interpreting it), I stuck to the stuff I knew I was good at.

mariaf24

Kooli wrote: »

I was like this as a kid (would give up if I wasn't good at something) and I think I'd put it down to something similar to the 'over-praising'.

Basically if I said that I wasn't good at something, or got frustrated cos I couldn't do something, my parents' automatic response was 'Of course you can do it', or 'Don't be silly, you'll do great!', or 'You just need to practice more'. Harmless things to say, but the underlying implication (in a child's eyes) could be that failure isn't really an option!

I think what I needed to hear was 'Sure so what if you're rubbish at it?', or 'Just see how it goes and enjoy it, no harm if it goes wrong'.

I think I needed it to be made explicit that it was OK for me to be bad at stuff!! As a kid, I was good at most stuff, which meant people assumed I was good at everything, and because the option of being bad or the worst at something didn't seem to be acceptable (although of course that's not how my parents saw it, they wouldn't have realised that was how I was interpreting it), I stuck to the stuff I knew I was good at.

LOL i have to agree. My daughter recently started drama and quit after about 3 sessions. I tought it was hilarious because i was forced to go as a child even though i detested it. Much to the horror of the other mothers, I like to see her have her own opinion and if she doesn't like it, leave it. Would those mothers join drama or irish dancing? No!
Anyway, I think every child has something they are good at.
I still praise her for the smaller things in life, and if that's over prasing then I'm as guilty as sin

xzanti

DCU run courses for advanced kids, my 9 year old Neice does them one evening a week and Saturday afternoons.. They have courses in Civil Engineering, Drama, Maths and a few other subjects..

Her teacher approached my sister about them but I'm sure if you enquired they'd be able to give you some information. They are a little pricey though, not sure exactly the cost but they're not cheap and she'll have to sit an entrance exam.. Might be worth a look though..

Good luck