Stag hunting bill vote

Dusty87

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Mods, Can we have a close eye paid on Hunting shooting and Target threads?

It is my opinion that the Anti-shooting/hunting lobby are trying to make inflammatory statements on several shooting/hunting threads

Its typical for some people to put the boot in tack. Unfortunately the mods cant be here all the time. Even Sparks;)

Tackleberrywho

Dusty87 wrote: »

I reported it earlier. Seriously what do people get from that. Looking to get a rise out of people. I wouldnt go into the motorcycle section if road racing got banned jeering it. Oh i forgot my life not that boring as to try a stir stuf on things i dont have a clue about

Oh I was tempted, I must resist :D

A very narrow vote, narrowest margin in years on any bill.

The govt fell before on a Childrens shoe tax, so stranger things could happen yet;)

Morlar

I thought this might be interesting to some here - on the day that unemployment in Ireland reaches the highest number in the history of the state

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0630/breaking6.html

Gormley rejects claims of 'bullying'


Minister for the Environment John Gormley has rejected a claim that the Green Party "bullied" coalition partners Fianna Fáil into passing legislation.

Tipperary South TD Mattie McGrath, who was expelled from the Fianna Fál parliamentary party last night after voting against the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill 2010, said today that pro-Green legislation was being "front-loaded" in order to be passed by the Dáil during the current session.

"When I see our national parliament reduced to debating an issue about stags and breeding bitches for the last number of weeks and this legislation being made a priority...I think it's time to call a halt to it," he said on RTÉ Radio this morning.

Mr McGrath said that a number of recent Bills, including those covering planning and civil partnership, had been pushed forward by the Greens without being properly debated. Mr McGrath said such moves were undemocratic. "They are bullying Fianna Fáil to be honest," he said.

Mr McGrath was also critical of developments within Fianna Fáil and of its leader Brian Cowen. "He (Cowen) hasn't been upfront and fair with us and he hasn't been leading as we expect him to lead," said Mr McGrath.

Mr Gormley rejected Mr McGrath's comments on bullying in a statement this morning. He said the TD was among the Fianna Fáil party members who endorsed the renewed Programme for Government, which included the proposed legislation on banning stag hunting.

Mr McGrath yesterday became the fifth member of the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party to lose the whip since the last election after he voted against the Government in the final division on the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill 2010.

Labour's Tommy Broughan, a longtime opponent of blood sports, had the party whip removed after absenting himself from the final vote on the measure.

The Bill was passed by 75 votes to 72 in an electronic vote, with Mr McGrath voting with the Opposition and then by 75 to 71 in a walk-through vote in which he abstained.

Another Fianna Fáil TD, Christy O’Sullivan from Cork South West, abstained on an earlier division but voted with the Government on the final stage. His fate will be decided today after a meeting with Government Chief Whip John Curran.

Mr McGrath said again today he intends to vote against the Dog Breeding Establishments Bill next week, despite Mr Gormley agreeing yesterday to amend the legislation in an effort to persuade wavering TDs to back the stag hunting ban.

Six other Fianna Fáil TDs who spoke against the Bill in the Dáil last week voted in favour of it last night.

Labour chief whip Emmet Stagg wrote to Mr Broughan last night, telling him he had lost the party whip as a result of his abstention.

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Mods, Can we have a close eye paid on Hunting shooting and Target threads?
It is my opinion that the Anti-shooting/hunting lobby are trying to make inflammatory statements on several shooting/hunting threads

We're watching. So are the Animal Welfare mods, with whom there's a cross-forum ban policy in place for people trying to do that kind of thing (and vice versa, by the way, so anyone getting banned from there for getting into a scrap also gets banned from here).

Sparks

Morlar wrote: »

Gormley rejects claims of 'bullying'

There's a degree of irony in that, so soon after Gormley accused RISE and other lobbies of bullying him...

Grizzly 45

Well thats the greatest sign of a bully isnt it?They cant take their own medicine..Gormly and remember Deasy running bawling to their media mummies that the big nasty gunowners and hunters were threatning them???
They have their arses in the butter tub over here politicans.
The protests here are pretty muted.One Green politico over near us in Germany who wants to turn a forest where we live into a wilderness park,doesnt dare leave his house without an armed police gaurd,and cant get a word in edgewise at public meetings as there is usually a bunch of farmers who follow him with whistles ,fog horns and chainsaw motors ,and crank all up the moment he tries to speak.He would welcome an odd thrown egg,as this is considerd over there a right of passage in German politics.:)

round tower huntsman

lads tbh i think ironicly john gormley has done hunting a favour.
in trying to ban the ward he has created a holy sxit pile. rise campaign has shown all other political parties that hunting is a subject that will cost or win you votes.
gormley has nearly collapsed the government in trying to ban one solitary stag hunt...what would happen if he went after the hundreds of mounted/foot harrier and beagle packs???
he'll now have to give major concessions on his dog breeding bill(which was a bigger concern for most hunters anyway). he'll never get any support again off any backbenchers for anything to do with rural sports.
the greens are extinct after the next election anyway, even if they do get into goverment again any mention of causing this much **** again will to totally off the table.
he's caused so much trouble with this. he's made labour and sinn fein voice their support for rural sports, ff backbenchers will shaft em every chance they get. imo he might have won the battle but lost the war.

round tower huntsman

another irony to all this is that eventually when all avenues have been exhausted and if the ward decides to finsh hunting stags. it'll have to cull the stags and the hounds(thanks to animal rights:rolleyes:) and will probably continue as a fox hound pack.
so instead of keeping and breeding pure red deer not killing em, it'll be out killing foxes.
well done gormley and the greens.:p

locum-motion

This is stupid.

Mattie McGrath (FF) and Tommy Broughan (Lab) both abstained from the walkthrough vote, against the wishes of their respective parties.
Both voted with their consciences, and were consequently 'punished' by having their party whips withdrawn.

Effectively, they were told:

"You've been a very naughty boy. You didn't do what we asked you to. Your punishment is that, in future, you don't have to do what we ask you to."

How TF is that a punishment?

Sparks

locum-motion wrote: »

How is that a punishment?

By also meaning the loss of the use of party facilities and party monies, you'd imagine. And less pragmatically, the loss of the opportunity to one day maneuver into a Minister's position or to make policy changes more easily.

ivanthehunter

We have seen RISE now in action and it must be kept alive and allowed to develop.

Absolutely ridiculous that a party with only 3% of the vote can have such an impact... IMO we need a new Constitution and a new republic TBH but until then we need to unite under a common flag.

We probable can't all agree on each agenda but we need to show that we're a force to be reckoned with...

round tower huntsman

imo RISE has been a success and will continue to grow. only question is why didnt we think of it sooner

ANXIOUS

locum-motion wrote: »

This is stupid.

Mattie McGrath (FF) and Tommy Broughan (Lab) both abstained from the walkthrough vote, against the wishes of their respective parties.
Both voted with their consciences, and were consequently 'punished' by having their party whips withdrawn.

Effectively, they were told:

"You've been a very naughty boy. You didn't do what we asked you to. Your punishment is that, in future, you don't have to do what we ask you to."

How TF is that a punishment?

If peopel are not in a position to support their party, they unfortunately have to walk. Their is a time and a place to voice your opinion.

Sparks

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous that a party with only 3% of the vote can have such an impact... IMO we need a new Constitution and a new republic TBH but until then we need to unite under a common flag.

Ivan...

• It wasn't the party with 3% of the vote that caused this, it was the party with 42% of the vote whom half of RISE's members probably voted for given the statistics;
• There is no mechanism for introducing a new constitution and you couldn't do that without years of public debate on the matter, not without major disruption to the country - and right when we're in the worst economic recession in our history is not the time to do that;
• You can't have a new republic without a coup d'etat, you can only change the one you're in;
• And ill-informed rhetoric like what you just posted is half the reason we don't have a single lobby group and have never had one. Calmer voices and setting and achieving realistic goals would ensure a single lobbying group, even if it took a while. But for some reason, some of us don't know the difference between shouting loudly and lobbying and that's landed us in more hot water in the past six years than the sport has ever known :mad:

locum-motion

Sparks wrote: »

By also meaning the loss of the use of party facilities and party monies, you'd imagine. And less pragmatically, the loss of the opportunity to one day maneuver into a Minister's position or to make policy changes more easily.

Agreed, no chance of a Ministerial post if you stay outside the party fold, but on the other hand, a much greater vote at the next General Election.
Look at Neil Blayney, Michael Lowry, Jackie Healy-Rae, Tony Gregory; poll toppers one and all, IIRC, because their constituents know they'll vote in the Dail for what they believe is right for the people who put them there rather than what the whip tells them to do. And you get to hold the balance of power when the parties of a hung Dail are trying to form a coalition.

Mark my words, and remember you read it here first; if McGrath stays outside the FF whip, he'll be the first elected in his constituency at the next GE.

Sparks

locum-motion wrote: »

Agreed, no chance of a Ministerial post if you stay outside the party fold, but on the other hand, a much greater vote at the next General Election.

Sure, if the people voting for you forget the mess you spent twenty years walking them into before you had your hissy fit at the party in the last weeks before the election...

Mind you, even those supporting McGrath now seem to be forgetting that he voted for the Criminal Justice Act 2006, the Criminal Justice Act 2007 and the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009, all of which crucified our sports...

Mark my words, and remember you read it here first; if McGrath stays outside the FF whip, he'll be the first elected in his constituency at the next GE.

Depressingly possible. And that is why we keep getting punished by legislation time and again in our sport - because we keep voting for the people who pass that legislation.

bunny shooter

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

No, the problem is many of the people on this site and sites like it. The rubbish they post, the way they post it, and the stupidity they show would make many run from being associated with them. That is why there is no united front and why the Greens & the Antis will nibble away at the edges until they are at the centre and then there will be no hunting, shooting or fishing for our offspring.
HOW MANY have sent a thank-you email to Lowry, Healy Rae, McGrath, etc for taking the brave position they did? ...............See??
P.

I DID ! So get off the cross

Sparks

I wish people would reign in the language a bit before hitting the 'publish to website' button.

From the NARGC website:

FIANNA FAIL TRAITORS!!!

The revised programme for Government agreed between Fianna Fail and the Green Party will go into the records as one the most shameful deals ever perpetrated on rural people by an Irish Government. It was treachery carried out by a gang of what can now only be described as Fianna Fail traitors to the rural communities who traditionally supported them.

NARGC and its 28,000 club members are unequivocal in our solidarity with all fieldsports in Ireland but especially with the Ward Union Stag Hunt. We want to tell Minister Gormley and Fianna Fail that they are on the brink of being taught a lesson which they will never forget. Gormley's Wildlife Bill, banning the Ward Union Stag Hunt was passed into law on Tuesday, June 29th 2010 but it is Fianna Fail who is to blame and we want to assure them that the revolt from rural Ireland will be their worst nightmare and it is only just starting. The NARGC is not in the business of sacrificing any fieldsport, no matter how small or how large. If we allow one to be banned we will be next because the Green agenda, despite what Gormley says, is to ban all fieldsports.

Today is a day for plain speaking and plain meaning and we speak plainly to all Fianna Fail TD's. When you voted for Gormley's Bill, you damaged us and our way of life. There will be no coming back from that and the Party Whip will be irrelevant for an out of work TD. Let us be clear, sympathetic Fianna Fail backbenchers who tell us they must obey the Party Whip are no use to us. When they tell us that, they are in reality saying they are going to screw us by destroying a part of our way of life and what we value.

We may have lost a battle last Tuesday but the war is very far from over. We will only win it by sending Fianna Fail a clear and unambiguous message - If you pick a fight with one of us, you pick a fight with all of us. A general election will be upon us again before you can say Ward Union Stag Hunt. We may have to suffer Fianna Fail treachery for now, but a day will soon come when they will have to face us on our terms. They have demonstrated they certainly can't face us now. They have been hiding away from the hunting, shooting and fishing people for months now. But they can't hide forever. We urge all rural people to give Fianna Fail TD's and Senators a really good tongue lashing every time you meet one. Call your Fianna Fail TD on the telephone, or write him/her a letter, send an email or better still call personally to his/her clinic and let them know your anger and the damage they have done. If the price of holding on to their seats tomorrow were to be the banning of shooting and fishing, they wouldn't think twice about offering them also.

Don't wait - act today.

bunny shooter

As a fieldsport participant to me that is not strong enough :mad:

Sparks

It's a gift for any tabloid looking to pillory people thought. It's bad enough listening to Pat Kenny this morning getting the boot into both RISE and Shell to Sea in the space of fifteen minutes, but rhetoric like that isn't going to (a) do anyone PR favours, or (b) get the job done.

I mean, most of the 3,700,000 other people not involved in fieldsports are worrying about jobs, about national debt after €22 billion was basicly set on fire in Anglo, about the economy never recovering, about their kids having to emigrate - or them themselves, about their houses now being worse than worthless with negative equity, and about a dozen other things from education to healthcare; to call Fianna Fail traitors over those issues might well be seen as proportional by the majority (and it's been done). Calling them traitors over this vote, that's just not going to be seen as being rational.

And frankly, Fianna Fail did this to our entire sport several times in the past few years, from the CJA2006 to the Misc.Provisions act. I get the fustration with them (in a very personal way), I get the anger at them (in a very personal way), but the surprise? Come on. Anyone surprised by this hasn't been paying attention for the last decade at least. Curse your sudden yet inevitable betrayal!

bunny shooter

If this was any other country in Europe there would be riots and/or blockades :eek:

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

If this was any other country in Europe there would be riots and/or blockades :eek:

Well, if it were France.
But then, in France the politicians have a habit of not ignoring people.
And in most other European countries, they don't do such a good job of running their country into the ground (yeah, Italy and Greece are exceptions).

But at the end of the day, the one single thing we have here that can get the job done is a general election. And we don't have any mechanism by which the electorate can directly call one. So what we're doing now is reaping what we sowed at the last general election.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

Well, if it were France.
But then, in France the politicians have a habit of not ignoring people.
And in most other European countries, they don't do such a good job of running their country into the ground (yeah, Italy and Greece are exceptions).

But at the end of the day, the one single thing we have here that can get the job done is a general election. And we don't have any mechanism by which the electorate can directly call one. So what we're doing now is reaping what we sowed at the last general election.

ye're ;)

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

ye're ;)

Only true in an academic sense bunny Right now, we're all feeling the after-effects of that election

jwshooter

we have the worse bank in the world ,the country is in tatters the dail is closing in 4 days until the autumn .
these bxxxxxxxs have noting on there mind only stopping a small hunt ,with a safety record second to no sport .

like des says, if they wanted to ban game shooting FF will back them.

we have got off lite , time to make the pike again and run these out of our countryside .

Grizzly 45

Proves Gormley&Co are lying thru their teeth.From The ICABS website;

30 June 2010 Latest news

ICABS applauds Minister John Gormley and the Green Party on the success of staghunt ban

With the Ward Union now banned, we return more of our attention to the cruel blood sports of hare coursing, hare hunting and fox hunting. With your continued support, our campaign will continue until these too are finally ended.



Wasnt John saying that this legislation wasnt a thin end of a wedge,and RISE was scaring the living daylights out of Ireland????With quotes like these from his friends and camp followers.we should be!


However they provided a nice list of those who voted for this disgraceful piece of legislation
Here it is.So if your TD is in there go to it.Write,email,visit,complain.Tell tHEM that YOU are NOT going to VOTE for them or their party anymore.

TDs who voted in favour of the staghunt ban: 75 (Bertie Ahern, Dermot Ahern, Michael Ahern, Noel Ahern, Barry Andrews, Chris Andrews, Bobby Aylward, Niall Blaney, Áine Brady, Cyprian Brady, Johnny Brady, John Browne, Thomas Byrne, Dara Calleary, Pat Carey, Niall Collins, Margaret Conlon, Mary Coughlan, Brian Cowen, John Cregan, Ciarán Cuffe, John Curran, Noel Dempsey, Jimmy Devins, Timmy Dooley, Frank Fahey, Michael Finneran, Michael Fitzpatrick, Seán Fleming, Beverley Flynn, Paul Gogarty, John Gormley, Noel Grealish, Mary Harney, Seán Haughey, Máire Hoctor, Billy Kelleher, Peter Kelly, Brendan Kenneally, Michael Kennedy, Tony Killeen, Michael Kitt, Tom Kitt, Conor Lenihan, Martin Mansergh, Jim McDaid, Tom McEllistrim, Finian McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, John Moloney, Michael Moynihan, Michael Mulcahy, M J Nolan, Éamon Ó Cuív, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Darragh O'Brien, Charlie O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, Noel O'Flynn, Batt O'Keeffe, Ned O'Keeffe, Mary O'Rourke, Christy O'Sullivan, Maureen O'Sullivan, Peter Power, Seán Power, Dick Roche, Eamon Ryan, Trevor Sargent, Eamon Scanlon, Brendan Smith, Mary Wallace, Mary White, Michael Woods)

Grizzly 45

bunny shooter wrote: »

If this was any other country in Europe there would be riots and/or blockades :eek:

But NEVER here....We lack an acute sense of moral outrage.
Until we finally switch off the radio and TV set,quit sounding off to Fat Kenny and Joe Fluffy[the Irish nations pressure relif valves],and realise that we are being screwed to the wall by a bunch of people who stopped repersenting us a long time ago,and are only in the Dail for the sake of power,and not in there for the betterment of the country,or for competant leadership at least.We will stay as no better than a flock of sheep.Somthing to be sheared at tax time and whenever else possible,as often as possible.
Thing is;there is really no need for riots,marches etc.Everyone of us can start changing this country,by simply not being a "good little sheep" anymore.The concept of "leaderless resistance "could be well applied here in Ireland.
We have done it for centuries here,do it sub conciously as a race,but never in a concerted effort for a single goal.When we do ever get around to do it.Then I would be if I was in Govt.... Very afraid of the risen people.

reprazant

Sparks wrote: »

Well, if it were France.
But then, in France the politicians have a habit of not ignoring people.
And in most other European countries, they don't do such a good job of running

While I don't mind many forms of hunting, I do have issue with hunting with a pack of dogs, as I would imagine, to the majority of people in the country. If the majority of people are against the hunts, then surely they are listening to the people?

Also, while I have not actually read the puppy farming bill, surely people cannot be against legislation which is intended to stop some of the more horrific practices of certain puppy farms?

I am not trolling, but I think the debate here seems to be a bit too one sided. I have no problem with tracking a deer, and killing it with a rifle. Deer dies relatively painlessly (as long as the shot is good). I just don't think that chasing a terrified stag through fields for miles is fun.

Grizzly 45

reprazant wrote: »

While I don't mind many forms of hunting, I do have issue with hunting with a pack of dogs, as I would imagine, to the majority of people in the country. If the majority of people are against the hunts, then surely they are listening to the people?

Also, while I have not actually read the puppy farming bill, surely people cannot be against legislation which is intended to stop some of the more horrific practices of certain puppy farms?

I am not trolling, but I think the debate here seems to be a bit too one sided. I have no problem with tracking a deer, and killing it with a rifle. Deer dies relatively painlessly (as long as the shot is good). I just don't think that chasing a terrified stag through fields for miles is fun.

.
Actually there has never been a proper survey carried out in Ireland on fieldsports.The ICABS and Greens are using stats from 1978!!!Or snapshot MRBI polls from the media opinion colums.Whereupon they squawk "rigged" if it goes against them or "great victory" and "majority of the Irish public"
if it is for them.That lot are exellent disiplies of Dr Gobbels.:rolleyes:
We are against legislation that is [1]a waste of resources and Dail time when our country is in SHT! [2] is pushed thru by an elitelist,arrogant minority bunch of cretins who want to push their morality on others while they preach tolerance and diversity in society.:mad: [3] is a domino piece of legislation.

terminator2

Did Alan Shatter.....(former president of the irish council against blood sports)...vote against the bill

Sparks

terminator2 wrote: »

Did Alan Shatter.....(former president of the irish council against blood sports)...vote against the bill

Yes, he's on the list as having voted in the final vote against the bill.

Feargal as Luimneach

terminator2 wrote: »

Did Alan Shatter.....(former president of the irish council against blood sports)...vote against the bill

He probably did what he was told and voted against the bill. Just like alot of FF members voted for it eventhough most of them were against it. You have to follow the party whip.

CJhaughey

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

TDs who voted in favour of the staghunt ban: 75 (Bertie Ahern, Dermot Ahern, Michael Ahern, Noel Ahern, Barry Andrews, Chris Andrews, Bobby Aylward, Niall Blaney, Áine Brady, Cyprian Brady, Johnny Brady, John Browne, Thomas Byrne, Dara Calleary, Pat Carey, Niall Collins, Margaret Conlon, Mary Coughlan, Brian Cowen, John Cregan, Ciarán Cuffe, John Curran, Noel Dempsey, Jimmy Devins, Timmy Dooley, Frank Fahey, Michael Finneran, Michael Fitzpatrick, Seán Fleming, Beverley Flynn, Paul Gogarty, John Gormley, Noel Grealish, Mary Harney, Seán Haughey, Máire Hoctor, Billy Kelleher, Peter Kelly, Brendan Kenneally, Michael Kennedy, Tony Killeen, Michael Kitt, Tom Kitt, Conor Lenihan, Martin Mansergh, Jim McDaid, Tom McEllistrim, Finian McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, John Moloney, Michael Moynihan, Michael Mulcahy, M J Nolan, Éamon Ó Cuív, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Darragh O'Brien, Charlie O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, Noel O'Flynn, Batt O'Keeffe, Ned O'Keeffe, Mary O'Rourke, Christy O'Sullivan, Maureen O'Sullivan, Peter Power, Seán Power, Dick Roche, Eamon Ryan, Trevor Sargent, Eamon Scanlon, Brendan Smith, Mary Wallace, Mary White, Michael Woods)

Just looking at that list of names makes me feel very much like vomiting.

reprazant

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.
Actually there has never been a proper survey carried out in Ireland on fieldsports.The ICABS and Greens are using stats from 1978!!!Or snapshot MRBI polls from the media opinion colums.Whereupon they squawk "rigged" if it goes against them or "great victory" and "majority of the Irish public"
if it is for them.That lot are exellent disiplies of Dr Gobbels.:rolleyes:

So, in that case, nobody knows how many are for or against?

But since the urban population has grown a lot more in the 30 years since the last proper survey, it would stand to ground then that the people against such things would have grown though, no?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.
We are against legislation that is [1]a waste of resources and Dail time when our country is in SHT! [2] is pushed thru by an elitelist,arrogant minority bunch of cretins who want to push their morality on others while they preach tolerance and diversity in society.:mad: [3] is a domino piece of legislation.

1) In that case, all legislation put before the Dail which does not relate specifically to our economic recovery is pointless and a waste of time. But that is not the way it works.

2) While the Greens may be "an elitelist,arrogant minority bunch of cretins ", they are still an member of the Government, and it was the government who put it through. Also, as I mentioned above, I would be of the opinion that they would speak for the majority of people in the country who disagree with stag hunts.The fact that they are a small, rich man's party is irrelevant when it comes to this. That is if I am correct though. If I am not, my whole argument somewhat falls apart.

3) That depends. Certain sports may well be curtailed in the future, if not by the greens, then by Labour. They did not vote against it because they were all for the hunts. As someone mentioned earlier, they felt that it did not go far enough. Then again, it may be the end of it.

I feel though that something has to be done about puppy farms and greyhound welfare as what I read in the paper, admittedly which would generally be the worst of it to make the paper, is horrific.

Sparks

reprazant wrote: »

1) In that case, all legislation put before the Dail which does not relate specifically to our economic recovery is pointless and a waste of time. But that is not the way it works.

Economic recovery, actual law and order issues, necessary social reforms like the civil partnership bill yesterday; those are a good use of Dail time. This particular bill, wasn't.

Mind you, given that Dail time is fairly irrelevant for deciding if something will be done or not, it's arguable that all the Dail time is wasted time in the end.

I would be of the opinion that they would speak for the majority of people in the country who disagree with stag hunts.

If you have facts to back it up, then you'd have a good argument for drafting legislation. But we've put the cart before the horse here, and while posting opinions without facts on an internet forum won't have too many serious side effects, passing legislation is a whole other story.

That more than anything else is my objection to the bill. You can't go about writing laws willy-nilly with no facts to substantiate their reasoning. It's utter folly to do so.

locum-motion

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

...That lot are exellent disiplies of Dr Gobbels.:rolleyes:
...

Godwin's Law!!!!!!

jwshooter

next time i see that grinning humpy looking baxxxxd of a john browne in enniscorthy ,he will be told where the deepest hole in borodale is.

Sparks

From RTE:

Wildlife Bill passed by Seanad
Friday, 2 July 2010 18:04
The controversial Wildlife (Amendment) Bill, which bans stag hunting, has passed all stages in Seanad.

The Bill will be signed into law by President Mary McAleese.

There was brief commotion in the upper house earlier when an Australian visitor fell down some steps and injured her ankle.

An ambulance and a unit from the fire brigade were called to the scene to assist. Proceedings were adjourned for 15 minutes.

Feargal as Luimneach

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.
Actually there has never been a proper survey carried out in Ireland on fieldsports.The ICABS and Greens are using stats from 1978!!!Or snapshot MRBI polls from the media opinion colums.Whereupon they squawk "rigged" if it goes against them or "great victory" and "majority of the Irish public"
if it is for them.That lot are exellent disiplies of Dr Gobbels.:rolleyes:
We are against legislation that is [1]a waste of resources and Dail time when our country is in SHT! [2] is pushed thru by an elitelist,arrogant minority bunch of cretins who want to push their morality on others while they preach tolerance and diversity in society.:mad: [3] is a domino piece of legislation.

"elitelist,arrogant minority bunch of cretins "
That reminds me of the horsey crowd in all fairness.............

endasmail

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

"elitelist,arrogant minority bunch of cretins "
That reminds me of the horsey crowd in all fairness.............

some of them do fit this description
alot of them are everyday joes,out doing a bit of work and getting on with it
dont be tarring everyone with the same brush

Grizzly 45

reprazant wrote: »

So, in that case, nobody knows how many are for or against?

But since the urban population has grown a lot more in the 30 years since the last proper survey, it would stand to ground then that the people against such things would have grown though, no?

You could also argue that the fieldsport pouplation has also grown.But in actuality where we DO have reliable stats in gunownership,so quasi fieldsports.We have found it actually is not much different since 1972.


1) In that case, all legislation put before the Dail which does not relate specifically to our economic recovery is pointless and a waste of time. But that is not the way it works.

2) While the Greens may be "an elitelist,arrogant minority bunch of cretins ", they are still an member of the Government, and it was the government who put it through. Also, as I mentioned above, I would be of the opinion that they would speak for the majority of people in the country who disagree with stag hunts.The fact that they are a small, rich man's party is irrelevant when it comes to this. That is if I am correct though. If I am not, my whole argument somewhat falls apart.

The Greens have NO mandate from the people of Ireland to be in Govt or ruling the Irish people at all.I DO NOT recognise Gormless Gormley or the GP as ligit repesentatives of the Irish people.They were not voted into office by the Irish people,[quite the opposite going by local elections] they were put in there in a power deal by that little crook from Drumcondra,who should be in Mountjoy Jail.To save his miserable ass from the wrath of an inquiry into his finances.Ergo,as far as I am concerned they are no better than a Quisling party.And to say that the "govt" put it thru is disenginous in the extreme.It was Gormley pushing it because of his extremists animal rights terrorist faction wer pushing him.And as for the majority of the people of Ireland who disagree with fieldsports where are they???At Waterford all the huge majority could muster were six scruffy new age types,while RISE put over 2000 on the street.So dont give us that crap that there is a majority in support of this ban.

3) That depends. Certain sports may well be curtailed in the future, if not by the greens, then by Labour. They did not vote against it because they were all for the hunts. As someone mentioned earlier, they felt that it did not go far enough. Then again, it may be the end of it.

More in reality ,they saw that there is a vote gathering in rural Ireland from the majority of people who are sick and tired of FF incompetance and Green meddling in the way we live.Die hard fammlies of generations of FF voters are quitting now because of the disaster with the gun laws and Ahernes handgun ban.This is not just one person but entire fammlies who are gone.The GP with it's EXPENSIVE and cloud cuckoo enviroment policies like baning light bulbs,patio heaters and stag hunting,just shows what is important to them while the country is going down the toilet.Gormley is now wasting another 200k of your and mine tax money on a survey of O
TTERS!!FFS!! Not to mind taxing us for undrinkable water,coming out of a system that is rotten with leaks due his Govts neglect.WTF did he think everyone had to leave taps running in the last big freeze??
A shade of Marie Antoinette's "let them eat cake" form of Govt there I think.

Grizzly 45

locum-motion wrote: »

Godwin's Law!!!!!!

If the shoe fits?????? Kindly disprove me wrong on the remarkable simmilarity of the methods used by the Nazis in their propaganda to demonise a race and religion,and the International animal rights terrorist networks methods of demonising ligitmate fieldsports or ideals and lifestyles they find do not fit their Ubermensch ideals???

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If the shoe fits?

Oh for flip's sake Grizzly.

Grizzly 45

Amazing...Quoting a crackpot unprovable academic law will silence free speech ,opinion and discussion these days...:rolleyes::rolleyes: Yet calling fieldsport enthausists",nothing better than child molestors" or "blood morons "is perfectly acceptable ???:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sparks

No Grizzly, comparing the Greens to the Nazis just makes every sane person roll their eyes and wonder just how dodgy our case is, if we'll compare the closing down of the ward union stag hunt to the state-sanctioned genocide of over six million people. It doesn't stifle free speech, it just makes us stop listening to yours.

Grizzly 45

NO Sparks!Comparing their methods of attacking fieldsports...etc,etc,etc.

Sparks

And you really think that's what people hear?

Grizzly 45

Sombody will eventually...Your solution to counter this???Sit down and have a nice chat and bore them to death trying to explain the differences?:D
Should add that actually comparing the Greens to the nazis is rather disengenious to the Nazis.More like fundalmentist religious crusaders with the pleasenter aspects of the Spanish Grand inqusitor would be more like it.

Sparks

Nope. But a big part of it involves not making a complete asshat of myself and my argument (and that of others who agree with me) on a public forum by comparing not getting the result I wanted in a parliamentary procedure to the Nazis.

Seriously Grizzly, we call Godwin's a law for a bloody good reason.

locum-motion

If you followed and read my link, you would have seen:

The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If the shoe fits?????? Kindly disprove me wrong on the remarkable simmilarity of the methods used by the Nazis in their propaganda to demonise a race and religion,and the International animal rights terrorist networks methods of demonising ligitmate fieldsports or ideals and lifestyles they find do not fit their Ubermensch ideals???