Brazil v Netherlands 1/4 final Friday 3.00 pm

Ush1

Pro. F wrote: »

Brazil were just as guilty of fouling, if not more so. It was a very poor game considering the array of talent on the pitch. That ref has screwed us over.


It's amazing how many of the big teams have, or have had, a poor defence in this world cup. I suspect that Uruguay's defence might be the best but they haven't really been tested yet.

I've been suspicious of Brazil's defence for a while now (that's why I voted Germany to win it). The flaws were exposed today.

Honestly don't think there's a better defence left than Brazils. Wasn't the refs fault they lost either.

noodler

Bar some of Robben's theatrics (some were merited - others were not), I also think he did a decent job.

You have to earn the right to play your fancy football - well done Netherlands.

Pro. F

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Explain exactly how the "ref has screwed us over".

Where exactly did the ref make a glaring error apart from no yellow card for van bommel?

Come on, up with it now? Where was the bad referreeing?

And the Brazilians were like animals, they were going for the Dutch legs with malicious intent. It's amazing Robben and Sneijder among others weren't limping off the field, such extremely dangerous tackles.

What the fùck are you, the thought police? What's with the crazy attitude?
I don't have a video of the game to review so I'm not going to be giving you every exact incident. Is that acceptable?

It wasn't big glaring errors that were what was so poor about the ref. It was the ref losing control of the game. He let the players think they could get away with crazy tackles. You even said yourself that the Brazilians were going in with malicious intent and it was amazing the dutch weren't limping. Does that not sound like bad reffing to you?!

There were bad fouls going on all over the pitch. Van Bommel should have been booked, Michael Bastos should have got a second yellow, Robinho probably could have been booked for all his fuse blowing. Those are just some examples, I can remember, of where the ref could have stamped his authority.

Pro. F

Ush1 wrote: »

Honestly don't think there's a better defence left than Brazils.

That could well turn out to be true. As I say, I'm waiting to see.

If it does turn out that Brazil's defence was the best at the wc, then it will have been a weird world cup - with so many defensive teams and not one really proper good defence.

Ush1 wrote: »

Wasn't the refs fault they lost either.

I didn't say it was. I said it was Brazil's fault for bottling it in an earlier post.

unkel

Pro. F wrote: »

Van Bommel should have been booked, Michael Bastos should have got a second yellow, Robinho probably could have been booked for all his fuse blowing. Those are just some examples, I can remember, of where the ref could have stamped his authority.

1. Van Bommel should have been booked. We all agree
2. Bastos should have got a second yellow card - but it was marginal. To send a player off for a marginal offence during a WC quarter final would have been OTT
3. A striker giving out a bit? Meh

Three minor issues tbh. To say the "referee screwed us over" based on that is ludicrous. Who is "us" anyway?

Headshot

I hear Dunga is gone

ssn

redout

Headshot wrote: »

I hear Dunga is gone

ssn

Aye, he said he was gone in the press conference seemingly - complained about Melo's sending off also.

inforfun

redout wrote: »

Aye, he said he was gone in the press conference seemingly - complained about Melo's sending off also.

I may hope he complained about Melo and not about the ref sending Melo off?

unkel

Headshot wrote: »

I hear Dunga is gone

My Portuguese isn't great but I think this means he resigned:

Dunga anuncia saída da seleção após derrota

From Brazils biggest newspaper

Nemanja91

Holland

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2890/world-cup-2010/2010/07/02/2006760/world-cup-2010-brazil-head-coach-dunga-confirms-resignation

Headshot

Dunga did a grand job with the Brazilian team, never did see a Brazilian defence that good before (excluding tonight) but the players he brought to the wc like the waster Baptista and playing Melo who has been awful in italy and not bringing a couple of youngsters to the wc like Neymar or Ganso (probably a few more that escape me) just to give them that experience was very disappointing

unkel

Interesting stuff on that papers' website

There's a public poll asking what's to blame for the loss - see current result percentage in brackets:

1-attack (11%)
2-defense (8%)
3-Melo (35%)
4-Dunga (46%)

Harsh on Dunga, no? Also Melo wasn't responsible for the equalizer, it was the keepers fault. And when he got sent off, it was already 2-1 with Brazil struggling

Warper

Holland

unkel wrote: »

Interesting stuff on that papers' website

There's a public poll asking what's to blame for the loss - see current result percentage in brackets:

1-attack (11%)
2-defense (8%)
3-Melo (35%)
4-Dunga (46%)

Harsh on Dunga, no? Also Melo wasn't responsible for the equalizer, it was the keepers fault. And when he got sent off, it was already 2-1 with Brazil struggling

I think this was always going to be Dunga's fault if Brazil didnt win the WC. The Brazilian media/public have been against Dunga for a long time for his perceived defensive set-up and failure to take more attacking players like Ronaldinho/Ganso/Neymar or Pato. What Melo did tonight was braindead, to do that at a time like that, it beggars belief.

That said, at that stage Brazil looked cooked anyways. To control the first half the way they did and then to completely fall apart after Holland's first goal is strange. Maybe because it was such a soft goal to give away, I dont know but they were shell-shocked after that and were done. Personally I wouldnt blame Dunga as before that second half they looked hot favs to win the comp. The team just lost the plot which I am totally sick over as the amount of bets I had riding on them was unreal between singles, doubles, trebles, the lot. Lesson learnt though, never put so much faith into one selection again. Hope Ghana win it now.

TouchingVirus

Des wrote: »

Does my head in too.

This Germany is NOT the same country as the old West Germany, ffs East and West Germany were in the same group in one WC

Also does my head in when people attribute everything Czechoslovakia did to just The Czech Republic, and Slovakia don't get a look in.

And then there's the idiot commentators in the Serbia/Germany game who were saying that Serbia was basically the old Yugoslavia and they "inherited" their football history. Er, no. Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia & Herzegovina and Slovenia are all entitled to that too, but they never attribute the history to anyone but Serbia.

Also, Russia is NOT the old USSR.

So that's where my can of worms got to

Peyton Manning

Holland

unkel wrote: »

Interesting stuff on that papers' website

There's a public poll asking what's to blame for the loss - see current result percentage in brackets:

1-attack (11%)
2-defense (8%)
3-Melo (35%)
4-Dunga (46%)

Harsh on Dunga, no? Also Melo wasn't responsible for the equalizer, it was the keepers fault. And when he got sent off, it was already 2-1 with Brazil struggling

Not too surprising really. Dunga is/was a hugely unpopular manager back in Brazil. The Brazilian FA basically came out and said that if Brazil didn't win the WC, Dunga would be sacked, albeit a bit more underhandedly.

_Bella_

Well theres alot of pressure on Brazil to have a good squad for the next World Cup

steelcityblues

Holland

Well done to Holland, and particularly Dirk Kuyt, the unsung hero of that squad, who has played a vital role in all of their matches.

Most neutrals will be on their side against Uruguay now too!

ultain

Uruguay without some key men...Netherlands v Germany for the final?

_Bella_

ultain wrote: »

Uruguay without some key men...Netherlands v Germany for the final?

Thats what I'm thinking (hoping ) It will be nice to have rivals playing each other

Pro. F

unkel wrote: »

1. Van Bommel should have been booked. We all agree
2. Bastos should have got a second yellow card - but it was marginal. To send a player off for a marginal offence during a WC quarter final would have been OTT
3. A striker giving out a bit? Meh

Three minor issues tbh. To say the "referee screwed us over" based on that is ludicrous. Who is "us" anyway?

As I said they were just three examples of where the ref could have stamped his authority. It wasn't that he got any one particular decision wrong - it was that he let the game get out of his control. There were reckless tackles flying in all over the shop as the game wore on. He has to take some blame for not controlling the match better.

The ''we'' I was reffering to is the general football public who wanted to see a good game of football.

seadnamac

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Bullcrap. The ref was superb today. He called all the fouls that were fouls and didn't call a dive a foul. Brazil were making really subtle tackles at times, and the referee spotted them all. What the hell more do you want?

He probably should have given van Bommel a yellow card, that's it.

You haven't been listening to Brady have you...? :rolleyes:

This actually made my jaw drop.

CorkMan

I think Spain and Netherlands will meet in the final.

unkel

Pro. F wrote: »

It wasn't that he got any one particular decision wrong - it was that he let the game get out of his control. There were reckless tackles flying in all over the shop as the game wore on. He has to take some blame for not controlling the match better.

I see where you're coming from, but I actually prefer a referee not to stop the game for every single foul. Tough teams, tough game, tough lads, high stakes. Let them play until they really overstep the mark.

That's what the ref did. He was having none of it in terms of diving and feigned injuries / asking for cards / claimed penalties

He did well, fair play to him.

leninbenjamin

Holland

The players were on edge. Even if the red did start handing out cards it wouldn't really have made a difference (it didn't stop Bastos fouling for example), the only thing is a red card might have happened earlier in the game and the ref would have been blamed for not letting the game "flow".

Refs never win...

unkel

Dunga takes full responsibility for the loss. But he points the finger at Melo for his action costing him the red card. And stating that Melo has done that before. And that with 10 men Brazil didn't have a chance any more against Holland.

Gotta feel sorry for Dunga - what has he done wrong? Put on a superstrong Brazil team with a better defense than ever before and the team was cruising all the way or so it seemed. If the players (not Dunga) had given 100%, they would have been up 2-0 after the first half and they would have been in the semi final by now.

Instead it is their own fault for letting the Dutch get back into the game. The Dutch then did give their 100% (also pretty rare ) and they got through...

Dave!

Those crazhy dutch bashtards!

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

Wow....can you believe that....Dutch missus is delighted....might make my move now!:D

Well even despite the result, and her total elation, my move was rejected for involving off-side, handball and diving all in the one move and she gave me the red card! That's marraige for ya!:D

PHB

Dunga imo did an amazing job with Brazil's defence, was one of the best of the world cup. Of all the keepers in the world, I wouldn't have expected that mistake.

However I thought he made a mistake not bringing Pato, and maybe a mistake not bringing Ronaldinho. They looked out of ideas up front to be honest.

Gillington

Holland

Ronaldo tells Melo not to come back to Brazil

Ush1

unkel wrote: »

Dunga takes full responsibility for the loss. But he points the finger at Melo for his action costing him the red card. And stating that Melo has done that before. And that with 10 men Brazil didn't have a chance any more against Holland.

Gotta feel sorry for Dunga - what has he done wrong? Put on a superstrong Brazil team with a better defense than ever before and the team was cruising all the way or so it seemed. If the players (not Dunga) had given 100%, they would have been up 2-0 after the first half and they would have been in the semi final by now.

Instead it is their own fault for letting the Dutch get back into the game. The Dutch then did give their 100% (also pretty rare ) and they got through...

Agree totally.

Feel bad for Dunga, he could not have legislated for Melo doing that. No manager can.

Beyond that it was just so odd to see a Brazil team visibly wilt under pressure, they usually thrive on it. Hope Dunga gets a decent job else where.

everdead.ie

Whats really wierd is I don't know if the dutch will do Uraquay they always fold spectacularily don't they?

Pro. F

unkel wrote: »

I see where you're coming from, but I actually prefer a referee not to stop the game for every single foul. Tough teams, tough game, tough lads, high stakes. Let them play until they really overstep the mark.

That's what the ref did. He was having none of it in terms of diving and feigned injuries / asking for cards / claimed penalties

He did well, fair play to him.

I agree he did well with regards the diving. And I know what you mean about letting the game flow, that is definitely an important factor that the ref has to worry about as well. But overall he didn't have enough control for me. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

_Bella_

Netherlands striker Robin van Persie has been taken to hospital for a scan on an arm injury.

And Wesley Sneijder has been credited with his side's first goal against Brazil in Friday's quarter-final,

steelcityblues

Holland

If anyone saw the Portugal game, where Felipe Melo was completely hacking Pepe out of it,it wasn't a real surprise to see this happen yesterday!

redout

The head of the CBF (Brazilian FA) is rumoured to want big Phil back as boss though he is with Palmeiras until 2012.