Focus RS - Best bang for Buck?

whippet

There is a brand new RS parked across the road from my office all day and it has been catching my eye for obvioius reasons.

It has got me thinking, new it is about €50K .... at a whopping 300 odd BHP is it the best bang for buck with regards to raw performance from a new car or what is your take on it?

Now, I expect the VRs brigade to come marching in here .. but is there anything apart from the obvious (GTi, VRs, MPS .. etc ...) that I haven't thought of .....

OldmanMondeo

This months Topgear amg is doing a Hot Hatch special, haven't got to read the article yet, but they seam to be heading towards the Focus RS500 (i think) and the Impreza Cosworth as the better 2.

Hanley

Holy NYOM

x in the city

too skangerish for my liking

MagicMarker

x in the city wrote: »

too skangerish for my liking

Agreed.

L-M

x in the city wrote: »

too skangerish for my liking

MagicMarker wrote: »

Agreed.

Tut, tut, tut.

onthewayout

skangerish? I think it's awesome.. although i am wearing a 45 degree baseball cap :cool:

Atomic Pineapple

Yeh because a skanger is really gonna be able to afford a €50k car* :rolleyes:

*Except Stephen Ireland.

You could buy an ST and modify it to 300bhp for a lot less than €50k if you were that way inclined.

shogunpower

does anyone know how much a 335i costs?

daRobot

For 50k i'd be looking at a 08 M3.

But for a brand new car, the RS (especially if you upgrade to the 350bhp package), is as powerful as you'll get for 50k

notel70

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

This months Topgear amg is doing a Hot Hatch special, haven't got to read the article yet, but they seam to be heading towards the Focus RS500 (i think) and the Impreza Cosworth as the better 2.

Focus RS500 a massive let down, compare the old RS500s of the 80s they were special. Plus this will be mad expensive

The new one has a few extra brake and a chav paint job which will be out of fashion in 12mts(call it the new flip paint)

Dont think id buy a new model Focus RS, rear spoiler is just too much

JimmyCrackCorn

Id be looking at older M3s. FWD with 300bhp just wouldn't do it for me.

Or an s15 just because i have a thing for them even they they don't remotely fit this thread.

Atomic Pineapple

Wait and save another €30k and buy a Nissan GT-R

stealthyspeeder

Bang for Buck the MPS is the best value, I compared them all (your missing the renaultsports, new shape Imprezzas, VXR/OPC's, Cupras and Mini S Works of the top of my head btw). I did all the maths and bought one! cracking car.

Henry Ford III

How many of you have actually driven a new model Focus RS? I haven't. Yet.

conneem-TT

BMW 135i would be just a smidgen more expensive with a base price of 52k (but a good bit more if speced the same as the Focus).

As for other hot hatches there are many options and although the Focus may have the most power it is not measurably quicker than say a Scirocco R or Megane RS.

Scirocco R should be around the same price as the Focus here but costs less to tax 630 vs 1k.

Here is a comparison test done by SportAuto in Germany

1st place - Volkswagen Scirocco R
* 265 hp, 350 Nm
* 0-100 km/h: 6,3 s
* 0-160 km/h: 13,1 s

2nd place - Seat Léon Cupra R

* 265 hp, 350 Nm
* 0-100 km/h: 6,2 s
* 0-160 km/h: 13,5 s

3rd place - Renault Mégane RS

* 250 hp, 340 Nm
* 0-100 km/h: 6,3 s
* 0-160 km/h: 14,0 s

4th place - Ford Focus RS

* 305 hp, 440 Nm
* 0-100 km/h: 6,1 s
* 0-160 km/h: 13,3 s

5th place - Mazda3 MPS

* 260 hp, 380 Nm Nm
* 0-100 km/h: 6,4 s
* 0-160 km/h: 13,6 s

Hockenheimring tractimes:

1. 1.16,3 min - Scirocco R
2. 1.16,6 min - Mégane RS
3. 1.16,8 min - Focus RS
4. 1.17,0 min - Léon Cupra R
5. 1.18,0 min - Mazda3 MPS

stealthyspeeder

someone should start a thread like this for 2010

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055515787

(I couldnt be arsed myself, but if someone does do it, make sure you get them all as poll options!)

TheBazman

There's a clip on YouTube, an autotrader one I think comparing the RS500 against the Clio cup, both on road and track. Conclusion was the Clio was better bang for buck.

Vertakill

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Not worth 50k I dont car what anybody says. Its worth about 35k as its quite useless at doing anything apart from going fast in a straight line. I drove old old one around Mondello and it does make quite a good smoke machine but not so good around the track. For 50k you could get alot more bang for your buck.

Completely agree.

50k for a 300ish bhp FWD car? Are you mad? In fact, it's probably one of the least bang for your buck cars when you think about it... and that's no exaggeration.

If you like em, just get a Focus ST remapped and it'll be close enough to that figure for a fraction of the cost.

With 50k, the market is wide open for great cars. The Focus RS is not one of those though!

300bhp is not really THAT impressive (especially with that price tag) anymore considering there are plenty of out-of-the-factory cars in or around the 250-300bhp mark without even hitting 25k, let alone 50k.

JHMEG

shogunpower wrote: »

does anyone know how much a 335i costs?

Fúck all if you get someone else to take the hit on depreciaton

For €50k you should get into the 1000bhp+ Skyline or Supra territory.

At that kind of power the Supra can do wheelies.:cool:

R.O.R

OP - your not in Calmount Park are you? I was up thee twice today and there was a sweet NI reg white RS parked there.

Only had my crappy work phone with me, so no camera :-(

kojack

TheBazman wrote: »

There's a clip on YouTube, an autotrader one I think comparing the RS500 against the Clio cup, both on road and track. Conclusion was the Clio was better bang for buck.

That Clio looks like some fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae4RqTW5UDU

Mr Benevolent

I'd say the Scirocco is on top because it probably has a DSG box.

conneem-TT

Confab wrote: »

I'd say the Scirocco is on top because it probably has a DSG box.

They used a manual for the comparison

http://www.sportauto-online.de/vergleichstest/ford-focus-rs-mazda-3-mps-renault-megane-r-s-seat-leon-cupra-r-vw-scirocco-r-kompakt-anzeige-1813604.html

Seperate

The RS500's come with a matt-black 3M wrap on them, it's Panther Black regular paint underneath, I think i'd prefer the regular finish on it.

You can't use any kind of TFR's or Tar Removers on the wrap, so it'd soon lose it's appeal.

Ford also reckons the wrap could 'shrink and curl' with the hot weather we're having too.

Squall19

Used Mazda 3 MPS is by far the best value if you want bang for buck.Saw a few 08 one's on donedeal with 1 year warranty going for 13k.Put 2k on top of that for tuning its 2.3l turbo and you have a very quick car for less than a new Yaris

Brand new I think the supermini's like the fabia vrs, ibiza cupra, corsa vxr etc are bargains.All are easily tuned to well over 200bhp+, lightweight and some even include dsg.A little Corsa vxr tuned to 240bhp or so would terrify a Focus rs.

Vertakill

Seperate wrote: »

You can't use any kind of TFR's or Tar Removers on the wrap, so it'd soon lose it's appeal.

Ford also reckons the wrap could 'shrink and curl' with the hot weather we're having too.

Sorry to go OT here, but how bad do you think the wrap would be? Do you mean it'd get badly worn and need to be replaced/removed?

conneem-TT

Squall19 wrote: »

Used Mazda 3 MPS is by far the best value if you want bang for buck.Saw a few 08 one's on donedeal with 1 year warranty going for 13k.Put 2k on top of that for tuning its 2.3l turbo and you have a very quick car for less than a new Yaris

An 08 MPS would be in the highest CO2 tax band and 2k to tax I think, maybe that's why it's up for so little money. An 07 one with old displacement based tax would be a bargain though.

itarumaa

Have anyone ever driven Renault Clio V6,

should be a fast car and not even expensive to buy, rear wheel drive and all.

messymess

For 50k you could get yourself a 2nd hand 911 turbo in fantastic shape. I know where my money would be going. I think that RS looks vulgar. But each to their own.

conneem-TT

messymess wrote: »

For 50k you could get yourself a 2nd hand 911 turbo in fantastic shape. I know where my money would be going. I think that RS looks vulgar. But each to their own.

You may get one for 50k(probably a bit more really) and it would be a much better drive but it will still come with the bills for a 200k car. Running costs would be on another level to anything else discussed here.

knifey_spoonie

For 50k Id have this in a heartbeat

JHMEG

Confab wrote: »

I'd say the Scirocco is on top because it probably has a DSG box.

Considering it's only 0.3 of a sec ahead of the Ford it could also be cos the driver skipped breakfast.

Henry Ford III

No new car will give "best bang for your buck".

notel70

LIGHTNING wrote: »

You can pick up a 996 911 for about 18k and the running costs wouldnt be that much more than a RS. Tax is a little higher but it that would be about it. My mates 996 911 is good on the juice when just cruising around.

not a hope getting a 996 911 turbo for under EUR40k. and at 40k you'll more than likely get a tip that rough enough

And if you are buying an 18k 996 911 the running costs will be WAY more than a new focus RS which is under warranty and need little more than oil and various filters, tyres and pads for the first 30k.

Early 911s are well know to have engine seal problems which is an engine out job.

robtri

50 k would give u massive choice...
from power and luxury - would be my choice
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/S8/5.2-v10/201024198450449/advert?channel=CARS

or sheer speed and lunacy
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201025361620476/sort/priceasc/usedcars/make/ariel/quicksearch/true/page/1/radius/1501/postcode/sw111dj?logcode=p



but ford focus.... not a fecking hope...

dr.fuzzenstein

If it's FWD forget it, anything over 200 bhp will do nothing but understeer, torque steer and burn front tires.
For that kind of power you neew RWD or 4WD.

notel70

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I never said a turbo, a new RS is 50k and a decent 996 is around 20k. That leaves you 30k to play with afterwards. If you do some work before buying a 996 you can avoid the engine seal issues and even if you do a 7k rebuild will sort the issue out.

why did you quote a post which was refering to the price of a 911 tt

Atomic Pineapple

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If it's FWD forget it, anything over 200 bhp will do nothing but understeer, torque steer and burn front tires.
For that kind of power you neew RWD or 4WD.

Old thinking, new technology has upped that limit quite a bit.

dr.fuzzenstein

draffodx wrote: »

Old thinking, new technology has upped that limit quite a bit.

Maybe so, but FWD and lots of power is just no fun on a wet roundabout.
Also, off the line instead of getting off it's just going to be TRACTION CONTROL! SLAP ON THE WRIST! TRACTION CONTROL! SLAP ON THE WRIST! TRACTION CONTROL! SLAP...
The one thing the RS has going for it is that only on that car can you affix a sticker that says "Kiss my RS"

Henry Ford III

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Maybe so, but FWD and lots of power is just no fun on a wet roundabout.
Also, off the line instead of getting off it's just going to be TRACTION CONTROL! SLAP ON THE WRIST! TRACTION CONTROL! SLAP ON THE WRIST! TRACTION CONTROL! SLAP...
The one thing the RS has going for it is that only on that car can you affix a sticker that says "Kiss my RS"

A few things on this thread.

A new Focus RS can be bought for €47.3k or perhaps a little less? A 1 year old one with low mileage and a manufacturers warranty is advertised for under €38k from a dealer.

No high powered fwd hatch will be great at the traffic light grand prix. It's simply not what they were designed for. Perhaps you could take off in reverse for that rwd "feel"

What is remarkable is that the RS can get over 300bhp transmitted to the ground through a fwd system without monumental torque steer. It's a huge leap forward in engineering terms. Wasn't that long ago people thought c.200bhp was a fwd limit.

Oh and I've no doubt in the real world (point to point, overtaking, cornering etc.) it's hugely fast, corners with massive grip, and is great fun.

dr.fuzzenstein

Henry Ford III wrote: »

What is remarkable is that the RS can get over 300bhp transmitted to the ground through a fwd system without monumental torque steer. It's a huge leap forward in engineering terms. Wasn't that long ago people thought c.200bhp was a fwd limit.

Oh and I've no doubt in the real world (point to point, overtaking, cornering etc.) it's hugely fast, corners with massive grip, and is great fun.

+1 on overtaking, cornering, etc... I'm sure this is one mean thing to drive on the road.
But...
But there's no way a FWD will transmit 300 bhp onto the road, even with limited slip diff, traction control, launch control and any other computer trickery.
The Opel Astra OPC '05 got round the Top Gear track in 1.32.0. It has 240 bhp.
The Ford Focus RS '03 got around in 1.32.02. It has 212 bhp.
The Astra has almost 30 bhp more, yet cannot make any significant gains over the Ford.
Why?
Because all that power simply cannot be put on the road.
This would suggest that going significantly over 200 bhp on a FWD drive car is pointless and besides bragging rights down the pub will actually not gain you anything.
The trickery does help but it cannae' change the laws 'a' physics captain!
That kind of power you need computer controlled stability control and 4WD like the Impreza or the Evo.
I know this does not have any bearings on the real world (unless you want to get arrested:D) but most of the time you would only use a tiny fraction of all that power.
Best FWD hot hatch? Mk I GTI, go on, have one, they're fun!

messymess

Is the torque steer issue not proportionate to its weight? A bus with 300bhp at the front wouldn't torque steer much, no?

I'd love a shot in it. It would take something special to move me away from honda in the hot hatch dept though. Wonder how it compares against an FD2.

conneem-TT

The Focus limits torque in 1st and 2nd to eleviate any torque steer and make it easier to get going.

I have 262hp and 290lb/ft in my fwd and have zero torque steer but I will admit you have to be easy on the throttle from a standstill in the wet. However my last car was rwd and only had 150hp 140lb/ft and the traction control would very often come on when exiting a petrol station ect.. in the wet so throttle modulation would be just as much required in a high torque rwd car.

@dr.fuzzenstein

you can't compare the MKI Focus RS and Astra OPC's track times and deduce that the power is wasted. The MKI Focus RS has a much better chassis than the Astra, if anything the extra power in the Astra helped it keep in touch with the Focus.

stealthyspeeder

conneem-TT wrote: »

you can't compare the MKI Focus RS and Astra OPC's track times and deduce that the power is wasted. The MKI Focus RS has a much better chassis than the Astra, if anything the extra power in the Astra helped it keep in touch with the Focus.

Wouldnt agree at all.

I have driven both hard and would not say that the RS has a better chassis, the track time on fastest laps.com (assuming thats where you got the 1:32 from, is wrong)
its 1:33.8

And a lot of that is due to the VXR having such a big turbo it takes at least half a second longer to come on boost everytime you let off the throttle (gears + corners). In the real world the VXR is a good bit quick in my experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljcq-5RiR78

and 1:33 dead for the Astra

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDqOI-IX4Ms

Neilw

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

But there's no way a FWD will transmit 300 bhp onto the road, even with limited slip diff, traction control, launch control and any other computer trickery.
The Opel Astra OPC '05 got round the Top Gear track in 1.32.0. It has 240 bhp.
The Ford Focus RS '03 got around in 1.32.02. It has 212 bhp.
The Astra has almost 30 bhp more, yet cannot make any significant gains over the Ford.
Why?

I would bet that the difference in laptime is due to the focus having a better chassis setup then the astra. Give the focus more power and I'd say it would lap quicker again.

As for getting 300bhp onto the road, it's only really an issue from a standing start. Accelerating in 2nd and 3rd on a spirited drive shouldn't see an problems with traction in the dry.

galwaytt

messymess wrote: »

For 50k you could get yourself a 2nd hand 911 turbo in fantastic shape. I know where my money would be going. I think that RS looks vulgar. But each to their own.

...true. Oh, and your money would be going to the garage. A lot.

Pdfile

Hanley wrote: »

Holy NYOM

for a car that looks that ****, its gotta be fast...


its not.

Get a GTR on lease for 50 k and be done with it.

ianobrien

The only thing I'm thinking of is why didn't Ford go and rob the rear suspension from the 4WD Volvo S40/V50 and shove it under the back of the Focus.

I wonder does the Volvo 4WD 'box handle 300hp..........

If I had the money, I'd have a RS in the morning.......

Atomic Pineapple

The Mark I Focus Rs was a bit **** though to be honest, the Astra OPC/VXR is a much better car compared to it.

djimi

For €50k Id fly to Tokyo to hand pick an R34 GT-R Skyline Wouldnt obviously be a new car but I know which Id sooner drive if given a choice...