Lance Armstrong

horizon26

petethedrummer wrote: »

Forgiven.

Here are some ways:
1. Being made aware you are going to be tested.
2. Back dating an exemption for use of a banned substance (then donating some money to the UCI).
3. Using Autologous blood transfusions.
4. Using large quantities of EPO until Epo is detectable.
5. Doping with EPO and blood transfusions up to the old 50% hematocrit rule.
6. When EPO is detectable, Micro does it by injecting straight into the blood stream, Clears in around 8 hrs..
7. Using small amounts of soap on your fingernails to spoil samples (not sure how genuine this method is).
8. Make testers wait at the door of your house(or tour bus) so you can take whatever masking agents.
9. Live in a country with no out of competition testing, e.g. Spain.
10. Be involved in a sport which had no real interest in finding dopers. (though Tennis and Football have no interest either).
11. Take undetectable human growth hormone.
12. Take steroids in the off season to promote muscle growth and aid recovery. The larger muscles become an advantage when combined with doped blood.
13. Eat asparagus (this maybe be nonsense).

I wonder how many pros dope. Give us your expert views.

petethedrummer

horizon26 wrote: »

I wonder how many pros dope. Give us your expert views.

No idea. I'm not an expert, I just read an awful lot about doping, a hobby of mine since Ben Johnson was caught. You'd have to ask people who have raced or know international riders for a guestimate.

I would be of the opinion that its less prevalent now. Well maybe a similar number are doping as in the height of the Armstrong era but with the new stricter controls its not a free-for-all and the gains would be smaller.
When you read stuff like this, its a bit depressing.

For now I would be a fan of Cadel Evans and Bradley Wiggins but if either of them were found to be doping it wouldn't exactly shock me. Paul Kimmage gave the thumbs up to the Garmin Team and will be covering to the tour with Team Sky this year and he hasn't been afaid to ask David Brailsford tough questions in the past. So I suppose you could conclude Sky and Garmin are clean.

irishmotorist

Trekmad wrote: »

I cant' count the number of threads I have read at this stage regarding did he or didn't he. But for someone who is relatively new to this sport (me) I don't understand how someone could possibly win seven TdF's and evade a positive test (if he was doping).

Forgive my naivety in advance.

There are lots of books by people who are sick of what has happened to the sport with facts and details about how doping has affected the sport and how people have got away with it. Microdoses of EPO are (as far as I rememeber) near undetectable. Throughout an event like the tour, your red blood cell count reduces as part of the toll taken on the body. EPO is a naturally produced substance in the body. R-EPO is a purchased substance that increases red blood cells in the blood and doesn't leave much trace of itself behind - apart from the benefits. Taking small doses increases your red blood cell count at a not-very-obvious rate so it's easy to see how it can go undetected.

Even apart from the first hand accounts about him by former team members, he was head and shoulders above many rivals who were caught with drugs. Also, his attempts to explain his performances are pretty pathetic - conflicting stories on what weight he was, crucial missing VO2 max details etc.

Personally, I've got little doubt he is one of the most talented cyclists in recent times, all things being equal (ish). However, the world is being misled and that's not right.

On comparisons with Merckx, they're not in the same ballpark. From memory, Merckx held the yellow jersey in the TdF on 96 occasions and won nearly 1000 races in his career. I don't have figures for Lance, but he focuses on the TdF only and doesn't have the broad range of winning that Merckx did.

(N.B. - my 'facts' etc. above are from memory - anybody with a better memory, please feel free to correct me on anything )

Harrybelafonte

jwshooter wrote: »

im not the one running any cyclist down hear , as i dont know the facts .

Merckx was class on a bike ,as was kelly ,as is Armstrong now .the man is almost 40 and still doing it . possibly the most tested athlete on the planet .

im not fool enough to think cycling was/is a drug free sport ,nor am i fool enough to make a statement like above .

you dont like Armstrong for what ever reason ,i would suggest getting over it ,learn to live with it .

personally i think the man is a inspiration and wish him well .

Well at least we know LA propaganda machine works. He'll do well in PR when he "retires".

I too find Amrstrong an inspiration, he has taught me to win at all costs, to bully and pick on those who speak up about doping (Simeoni) and to treat anyone I care as badly as I please (Contador). If I were looking for an inspiring hero I can think of plenty of others to choose from:

Contador's recovery from brain haemorrage
LeMond doing the Tour with pellets in still his backside after being shot
and there's plenty more

To all those who say LA introduced thousands to cycling, I think you'll find LA introduced thousands to LA and maybe the TdF.

sxt

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

To all those who say LA introduced thousands to cycling, I think you'll find LA introduced thousands to LA and maybe the TdF.

You obviously weren't one of those to join Lance for cycle in phoenix park last year, he got hundreds of cyclists on their bikes to join him for a cycle

Harrybelafonte

sxt wrote: »

You obviously weren't one of those to join Lance for cycle in phoenix park last year, he got hundreds of cyclists on their bikes to join him for a cycle

Proving my point I think, they were already cyclists? No? Mind you I have lost count of how many people who have walked up to me and said, "I heard Lance Armstrong beat cancer, so I bought a bike to be like him".

Why would I go to the Phoenix Park to cycle around with LA??? So I could say I did it? If I recall I was either washing my hair or going for a proper cycle while the streets were empty of POBs

sxt

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Proving my point I think, they were already cyclists? No? Mind you I have lost count of how many people who have walked up to me and said, "I heard Lance Armstrong beat cancer, so I bought a bike to be like him".

Why would I go to the Phoenix Park to cycle around with LA??? So I could say I did it? If I recall I was either washing my hair or going for a proper cycle while the streets were empty of POBs

There were girls with wicker basket bicycles ,dublin city bikes , clowns on unicycles, people wearing suits cycling ,young people and old people .He got all types of people that would not normally have ridden together in their hundreds to come out and spend a couple of hours enjoying a cycle

Harrybelafonte

sxt wrote: »

There were girls with wicker basket bicycles ,dublin city bikes , clowns on unicycles, people wearing suits cycling ,young people and old people .He got all types of people that would not normally have ridden together in their hundreds to come out and spend a couple of hours enjoying a cycle

Really? I was totally wrong about him so.

papac

sxt wrote: »

There were girls with wicker basket bicycles ,dublin city bikes , clowns on unicycles, people wearing suits cycling ,young people and old people .He got all types of people that would not normally have ridden together in their hundreds to come out and spend a couple of hours enjoying a cycle

Saint Lance?? I don't think so.
An opportunistic self publicist more like.The phrase too sweet to be wholesome comes to mind.
He is a liar, a cheat, and a bully.(allegedly:))

kenmc

I think he is one of the most ignorant, obnoxious, arrogant and dislikable sports "stars" I have ever had the misfortunate to see interviewed. Not a shred of humility or charisma in his veins - wonder if that's another side effect of EPO?
I cannot wait for him to fall from his lofty perch.

CheGuedara

kenmc wrote: »

I think he is one of the most ignorant, obnoxious, arrogant and dislikable sports "stars" I have ever had the misfortunate to see interviewed. Not a shred of humility or charisma in his veins - wonder if that's another side effect of EPO?
I cannot wait for him to fall from his lofty perch.

No no, you need to save some of this good stuff for tomorrow, it's just 8 minutes till Friday! 8 minutes, then tell us what you really think...

kenmc

CheGuedara wrote: »

No no, you need to save some of this good stuff for tomorrow, it's just 8 minutes till Friday! 8 minutes, then tell us what you really think...

Maybe it's already friday where I am

CheGuedara

kenmc wrote: »

Maybe it's already friday where I am

Touché - but its breakfast time not quite there yet back home

CheGuedara

And go for it....

The tax man

GO!!!!

petethedrummer

Worse than Hitler.

jwshooter

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Proving my point I think, they were already cyclists? No? Mind you I have lost count of how many people who have walked up to me and said, "I heard Lance Armstrong beat cancer, so I bought a bike to be like him".

Why would I go to the Phoenix Park to cycle around with LA??? So I could say I did it? If I recall I was either washing my hair or going for a proper cycle while the streets were empty of POBs

what are POBs

CheGuedara

jwshooter wrote: »

what are POBs

Pedestrians On Bikes - interestingly enough, though often confused with cyclists these creatures are more closely related to lemmings...

Aka Pedalestrians

jwshooter

There is some self important pxxxxs on this forum .

petethedrummer

sxt wrote: »

There were girls with wicker basket bicycles ,dublin city bikes , clowns on unicycles, people wearing suits cycling ,young people and old people .He got all types of people that would not normally have ridden together in their hundreds to come out and spend a couple of hours enjoying a cycle

So all the doping was worth it. Maybe that's why he did it? Not to boost his ego, line his own pocket, shag a few starlets and hang with Nicolas Sarkozy but to get a few people in Dublin to go for a cycle....I'm almost crying typing this....the man's a saint.

DirkVoodoo

jwshooter wrote: »

There is some self important pxxxxs on this forum .

Isn't it great?

petethedrummer

jwshooter wrote: »

There is some self important pxxxxs on this forum .

who specifically?

bad2dabone

I was a big LA fan, in 2004 I took a month off and followed the race around france with a little tent and a little car, I hold the Alpe D'Huez time trial as one of my favourite sporting memories (was just awesome to be on the mountain with so many people so close to the riders). I was as prepared as anyone to defend him to the hilt, but like a death from 1000 cuts I must concede that Armstrong is a cheat. It saddens me to say it.

DirkVoodoo

petethedrummer wrote: »

who specifically?

Looking to be singled out? Think you're better than me? Self important p***k!

Slideshowbob

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dhPZruTxqQ

worth watchin just to see the head on LA at 6.31

fran oconnor

Slideshowbob wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dhPZruTxqQ

worth watchin just to see the head on LA at 6.31

god,you'd swear someone robbed his EPO.

Harrybelafonte

jwshooter wrote: »

There is some self important pxxxxs on this forum .

But you've just spent the whole thread defending a self-important prick, so this must be a good thing, right?

Liamo08

For me I think that the vast majority (If not all) of the top riders who Armstrong was competing against when he was winning his TDF's were not exactly clean so I think his achievemnts are still incredibly impressive. I don't condone doping of any kind but I don't have any more or less disdain for Armstrong than his competitors as I believe they were mostly all up to the same thing in terms of doping.

davyjose

Liamo08 wrote: »

For me I think that the vast majority (If not all) of the top riders who Armstrong was competing against when he was winning his TDF's were not exactly clean so I think his achievemnts are still incredibly impressive. I don't condone doping of any kind but I don't have any more or less disdain for Armstrong than his competitors as I believe they were mostly all up to the same thing in terms of doping.

Gotta love the past-tense optimism....

Liamo08

davyjose wrote: »

Gotta love the past-tense optimism....

Ehh I'm talking about when he was winning the TDF which was in the past.

Ruprecht

Despite being 40 next year, Armstrong is still third favorite for this years TDF. Do people not find that strange? Only Schleck at 25 and Contador who is 27 are supposedly in his league. Reminds me of when Michelle Smith was winning golds, when she was about ten years older than everybody else in her races and most people were just ignoring that fact. Many including David Walsh had her sussed but most just wanted to ignore what was staring them in the face.

sxt

petethedrummer wrote: »

Maybe that's why he did it? Not to boost his ego, line his own pocket, shag a few starlets and hang with Nicolas Sarkozy but to get a few people in Dublin to go for a cycle....I'm almost crying typing this....the man's a saint.

I don't know why people are lambasting him for going for a cycling in Pheonix park and inviting people to come and join him, I thought it was a nice gesture... I had a fun day out cycling in phoenix park along with alot of other people.

Dr_Colossus

sxt wrote: »

I don't know why people are lambasting him for going for a cycling in Pheonix park and inviting people to come and join him, I thought it was a nice gesture... I had a fun day out cycling in phoenix park along with alot of other people.

How were the roads back then, can't see the same happening this year or there would be alot of broken bikes, wheels and cyclists with the state of them, pretty dangerous in places.

petethedrummer

sxt wrote: »

I don't know why people are lambasting him for going for a cycling in Pheonix park and inviting people to come and join him, I thought it was a nice gesture... I had a fun day out cycling in phoenix park along with alot of other people.

I didn't have a go at him for going for his twitter rides. All I'm saying is that these inspiring twitter rides and his cancer work do not dilute his cheating and bullying nature.

Though I think there are a few things to like about the guy;
1. He has reasonable taste in music,
2. The twitter rides are a nice idea (not that I would partake),
3. Some of the Mellow Johnny T-shirts are real nice.

Hermy

petethedrummer wrote: »

1. He has reasonable taste in music

Could you elaborate?

alfalad

petethedrummer wrote: »

3. Some of the Mellow Johnny T-shirts are real nice.

I agree I just wish they weren't Lance related!

petethedrummer

Hermy wrote: »

Could you elaborate?

I've seen some of his tweets and the bands he was listening to seemed ok. Can't remember any off the top of my head though.

dave2pvd

Liamo08 wrote: »

For me I think that the vast majority (If not all) of the top riders who Armstrong was competing against when he was winning his TDF's were not exactly clean so I think his achievements are still incredibly impressive. I don't condone doping of any kind but I don't have any more or less disdain for Armstrong than his competitors as I believe they were mostly all up to the same thing in terms of doping.

I'm no Armstrong fan. However, I agree 100% with your post.

The dislike of Armstrong is intense for 2 reasons:

1) He's an arrogant sonofab1tch
2) An all time great - best of the last 10 years, for sure

I am tempted to add a 3rd: he is American. Thing is, a lot of cyclists in the US don't like him either, so that statement might not apply.

Regarding 1) folks, do you really expect humility from such a successful competitor? Think Serena, Maradona, Schumacher, Woods. It's pretty rare amongst that breed.

Liamo08

dave2pvd wrote: »

I'm no Armstrong fan. However, I agree 100% with your post.

The dislike of Armstrong is intense for 2 reasons:

1) He's an arrogant sonofab1tch
2) An all time great - best of the last 10 years, for sure

I am tempted to add a 3rd: he is American. Thing is, a lot of cyclists in the US don't like him either, so that statement might not apply.

Regarding 1) folks, do you really expect humility from such a successful competitor? Think Serena, Maradona, Schumacher, Woods. It's pretty rare amongst that breed.

Just in terms of his arrogance, I spoke to a mate of mine who is a photographer and was taking some photo's of Armstrong during an interview when he was over here last year. Now just to set the scene this guy is a big cycling fan but very much not an Armstrong fan for the reasons that lots of people have stated - arrogant, bully etc.

He said he was completely surprised that in person he was very sound, sat and had breakfast with the lads and spent a good while chatting with them after the interview was over, as well as signing anything they wanted and posing for photo's etc.

Now not saying he's the soundest bloke in the world but maybe not as bad (Off the bike) at least as some would say.

dave2pvd

Liamo08 wrote: »

Just in terms of his arrogance, I spoke to a mate of mine who is a photographer and was taking some photo's of Armstrong during an interview when he was over here last year. Now just to set the scene this guy is a big cycling fan but very much not an Armstrong fan for the reasons that lots of people have stated - arrogant, bully etc.

He said he was completely surprised that in person he was very sound, sat and had breakfast with the lads and spent a good while chatting with them after the interview was over, as well as signing anything they wanted and posing for photo's etc.

Now not saying he's the soundest bloke in the world but maybe not as bad (Off the bike) at least as some would say.

You have to remember too, the guy is a chameleon. He is the consummate politician. Having said that, in a non-competitive setting, he's probably fine*. After all, he is charming, witty, smart, and so on. Yeah, I'd have a pint with him. But just one. "So, how about that Paul Kimmage fella....?".

*He has also probably mellowed somewhat with age.

cm2000

dave2pvd wrote: »

You have to remember too, the guy is a chameleon. He is the consummate politician. Having said that, in a non-competitive setting, he's probably fine*. After all, he is charming, witty, smart, and so on. Yeah, I'd have a pint with him. But just one. "So, how about that Paul Kimmage fella....?".

*He has also probably mellowed somewhat with age.

No pun intended of course

dave2pvd

cm2000 wrote: »

No pun intended of course

It was absolutely intended! Hence the italics. Back to drinking too much coffee....

Ruprecht

I think 2 quotes from Tour De France legend Greg leMond sum it up for me.



"Lance is ready to do anything to keep his secret. I don't know how he can continue to convince everybody of his innocence."


"I just think he's not a good person and that's all I can say. I mean, he's a facade, if you knew the real Lance Armstrong that I know. I think he fronts himself as a guy who is loving and caring. From my experience, he's not a nice guy and I've had some very difficult periods with him. And I don't believe he'll finish up having any friends in cycling."


I have a great deal of respect for LeMond ever since he won that epic Tour in 1989 with 37 shotgun pellets in him.



For those of you who do want to cycle with a clean Tour de France Winner in a fighting cancer event, get down to Limerick tomorrow.The man himself is riding in the BDO Get BACk 100km challenge tomorrow.

jwshooter

Ruprecht wrote: »

I think 2 quotes from Tour De France legend Greg leMond sum it up for me.



"Lance is ready to do anything to keep his secret. I don't know how he can continue to convince everybody of his innocence."


"I just think he's not a good person and that's all I can say. I mean, he's a facade, if you knew the real Lance Armstrong that I know. I think he fronts himself as a guy who is loving and caring. From my experience, he's not a nice guy and I've had some very difficult periods with him. And I don't believe he'll finish up having any friends in cycling."


I have a great deal of respect for LeMond ever since he won that epic Tour in 1989 with 37 shotgun pellets in him.



For those of you who do want to cycle with a clean Tour de France Winner in a fighting cancer event, get down to Limerick tomorrow.The man himself is riding in the BDO Get BACk 100km challenge tomorrow.

was kelly hunting with him that day ?

dave2pvd

jwshooter wrote: »

......possibly the most tested athlete on the planet....

Amazing how this mantra is repeatedly trotted out by people who know little about Armstrong, cycling and doping.

Marketing at its finest, people.

jwshooter

dave2pvd wrote: »

Amazing how this mantra is repeatedly trotted out by people who know little about Armstrong, cycling and doping.

Marketing at its finest, people.

do you think he was not tested when he won his tours .

NickDrake

jwshooter wrote: »

do you think he was not tested when he won his tours .

Hilarious!!! No test for EPO, no test for HGH. for years man.

Hard to catch blood doping, and now micro dosing epo.

Don't comment on something you do not understand

papac

jwshooter wrote: »

do you think he was not tested when he won his tours .

I would say that being tested when he won his tours does not make him "the most tested man on the planet".

Was Bjarne Rjis tested when he won the tour.??

dave2pvd

jwshooter wrote: »

do you think he was not tested when he won his tours .

Sorry, jw, I'm not going to respond to that. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum and on countless others. If you want an education on the subject, use the search feature. It's free. My time is not.

Lumen