Arsenal FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 10/11

event

redout wrote: »

But thats the thing - they didnt know what he would be become. It was a risk and a far bigger one compared to a club taking on your usual everyday youngster who doesnt possess health problems especially ones such as that. We can argue this until we are both blue in the face but I am not accepting that it is the same. I would also guess that a lot of clubs would never have even taken him on knowing the potential risks involved. A lot would have just said this lad doesnt have a hope and wouldnt have taken the financial burden on.

financial burden?

it was $129000 a year for his medical bills. hardly a burden.

dont be trying to make out that poor barca struggled to pay his medical bills, that they did so in the faint hope he might make it. he was playing with the U11's at the age of 7 for newells, the chap talked about a lot in argentina at that age.

redout

event wrote: »

financial burden?

it was $129000 a year for his medical bills. hardly a burden.

dont be trying to make out that poor barca struggled to pay his medical bills, that they did so in the faint hope he might make it. he was playing with the U11's at the age of 7 for newells, the chap talked about a lot in argentina at that age.

Do you have a source for them figures ?

and who said they struggled to pay them ?

I fully stand by what I said - a lot of clubs would not have taken on the financial burden with the risks involved given his circumstances at the time.

Quazzie

But its all about risk assessment. The potential was there from a very young age, and Barca found that the money to be paid for developing this player would be with it. They didn't do it to save Lionel's life, they done it to develop a player for them. The same way the big bad wolves in the EPL done. The risk was higher but the potential was equally as high. Its all about calculating the odds and seeing if the payout is worth the investment.

danlen

I think we need to get a grip here people. I mean wtf are some peolpe banging on about?

1. Cesc didn't put the jersey on, it was forced on him as a joke. He actually looked mortified.

2. He came out and dedicated the winning of the World Cup to Arsenal and Wenger afterwards.

3. For any Arsenal fan to come out and call him a 'traitor' or any other derogatory comment for what happened last night is just plain wrong. I mean seriously, kop onto yourselves. imo stupid comments like that either mean that you didn't actually see what happened, or you had some sort of agenda with Cesc before last night's incident.

People are reading way too much into this situation. These guys are just after winning the World Cup ffs. Admittedly, it was a bit distasteful for Pique and Puyol to do that, but hey big effin' deal. Its not like thats the thing that is going to get Cesc to leave.

I have supported Cesc and his conduct on this forum before, and I think that we, as Arsenal fans, should continue to do so until he actually does something that warrants criticism. I get that people are fed up with the whole sitaution but to start painting Cesc as the villain is just plain ridiculous.

SDTimeout

Loads of this Cesc bashing is quite unfair on Cesc himself.

I still believe he will still be at the club next season, infact i'm not even going to worry about that until closer to the season.

You worry about every little detail in the world and then you never have a chance to relax. I think i'm going to take a leninbenjamin approach and just unplug my internet for go out and enjoy the summer as opposed to smash Cesc's loyalty or Wengers Sanity on a message board.

Cesc is our captain, let's not talk about him respecting the club and let's give HIM the respect to come out and make a comment. He said he will after the world cup.

yahoo_moe

Jebus.

I'm glad what happens when I get drunk doesn't end up on YouTube with people dedicating pages and pages of a thread to it.

I think it's time to bring the 'No Cesc talk' rule back to this thread. At least until something actually happens.

eZe^

Rofl, I can see how Arsenal fans would be pissed when it was Laporta coming out in the media and making stupid statements, or even when the players were told to come out and mention how well he'd fit in. But for you to hang Cesc over this whole debacle is a bit ridiculous. He's just after winning the world cup, with alot of his childhood friends. They were all sh*tfaced celebrating with Spanish fans, Pique and Reina decided to take the p*ss and put a Barca jersey on him, considering the entire fiasco that has preceded.


There was NOTHING to it, just innocent banter between some players who lived and grew up with each other at La Masia (Pique/ Cesc/ Messi and co were all best buddies in the same youth team). Rossell (the new Barca president), has also come out and stated they want Cesc, but won't be decadent. Laporta was the main culprit doing the dirty work, but at the same time, he could afford to, as his footballing image became null and void on the 1st of July. Guardiola has also repeatedly said he has no idea on the situation, and inevitably it's arsenal's decision.


Also, the difference between Barca signing Messi and Arsenal signing Cesc was that;

1) Newell's old boys were UNWILLING to pay for Messi's treatment, so his contract was going to be terminated and he'd essentially cease to be a footballer. 7 days before leaving for Barca Messi had a 2 page spread in an Argentine magazine, he was nowhere near being 'universally acclaimed' in the country. However he was adored under any manager that ever worked with him.

2) Cesc left Barca because Arsenal (and all premier league clubs) are able to offer a professional contract at the age of 16. That's a luxury that's forbidden in La Liga, hence Fabregas was tempted by a brewing unrest in Barca, and the ability to be paid like an official professional player.


Hate Barca/ Fabregas all you want lads. I'm sorry for even bringing up Cesc, as there is a dedicated thread for it, but this is relevant when it comes to the Messi comparison.

gosplan

eZe^ wrote: »

But for you to hang Cesc over this whole debacle is a bit ridiculous. He's just after winning the world cup, with alot of his childhood friends. They were all sh*tfaced celebrating with Spanish fans, Pique and Reina decided to take the p*ss and put a Barca jersey on him, considering the entire fiasco that has preceded.


There was NOTHING to it, just innocent banter between some players who lived and grew up with each other at La Masia (Pique/ Cesc/ Messi and co were all best buddies in the same youth team).


Also, the difference between Barca signing Messi and Arsenal signing Cesc was that;

1) Newell's old boys were UNWILLING to pay for Messi's treatment, so his contract was going to be terminated and he'd essentially cease to be a footballer. 7 days before leaving for Barca Messi had a 2 page spread in an Argentine magazine, he was nowhere near being 'universally acclaimed' in the country. However he was adored under any manager that ever worked with him.

2) Cesc left Barca because Arsenal (and all premier league clubs) are able to offer a professional contract at the age of 16. That's a luxury that's forbidden in La Liga, hence Fabregas was tempted by a brewing unrest in Barca, and the ability to be paid like an official professional player.


Hate Barca/ Fabregas all you want lads. I'm sorry for even bringing up Cesc, as there is a dedicated thread for it, but this is relevant when it comes to the Messi comparison.

Sense!!!!! Nice one.

Talking about Messi is pointless though(not you eZe). It was an investment made by Barca that turned out very well, that's all. I'm sure there were many investments that didn't that no-one gives a sh1t about.

I've always wondered though, why isn't there more of a backlash towards Cesc for leaving in the first place? I mean sure Arsenal grabbed him on a technicality but he's the one that chose to move to London and leave his DNA, his BFFs, his spiritual home blah blah blah.

event

redout wrote: »

Do you have a source for them figures ?

and who said they struggled to pay them ?

I fully stand by what I said - a lot of clubs would not have taken on the financial burden with the risks involved given his circumstances at the time.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/feb/24/championsleague1

says it was £500 per month

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/european_football/article3779961.ece

says it was $900 per month

so i was over, it was only $10800 a year or £6000

so your telling me a lot of clubs would not have taken on the risk of a massive £6000 per year? come off it, of course they would. they have taken it on players who were a lot worse than messi

the only reason no one else did is that barca were tipped off about his talent and took him over for a trial. he impressed so much barca decided it was worth the 'burden'.

im not knocking barca's signing of messi though, it was fine. As was arsenals signing of fabregas. but dont try and paint it that barca were going out on a limb for messi. it was £6000 a year ffs

redout

event wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/feb/24/championsleague1

says it was £500 per month

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/european_football/article3779961.ece

says it was $900 per month

so i was over, it was only $10800 a year or £6000

so your telling me a lot of clubs would not have taken on the risk of a massive £6000 per year? come off it, of course they would. they have taken it on players who were a lot worse than messi

the only reason no one else did is that barca were tipped off about his talent and took him over for a trial. he impressed so much barca decided it was worth the 'burden'.

im not knocking barca's signing of messi though, it was fine. As was arsenals signing of fabregas. but dont try and paint it that barca were going out on a limb for messi. it was £6000 a year ffs

Its apparently obvious no other club would take the risk considering no other club offered as say Messi himself. Did you read the article from the Guardian ?

I didnt paint it that Barca went out on a limb for him - I argued with Galv that it was not the same as taking on your regular youngster and that it involved a far greater risk. You seem to be seeing things that are not there in fairness just like you accused me of stating that Barca struggled to pay his medical expenses which I questioned and you have ignored to answer.

Pepe LeFrits

Who cares...

L'prof

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Who cares...

Yep, this thread is getting out of hand at the moment...not that we have anything else to talk about, other than...eh...Barnet!

redout

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Who cares...

L'prof wrote: »

Yep, this thread is getting out of hand at the moment...not that we have anything else to talk about, other than...eh...Barnet!

Me and Galv had settled our differences but then this chap got involved.

I would have been willing to let this go but that is now the second time in less than 24hrs someone in this thread has claimed I said something which I did not. I have pulled up both posters on this and low and behold I am still awaiting a response.

gibson

Im sorry I mentioned Messi now! :rolleyes:

What makes me laugh about the whole Fabregas shirt situation is that for a change the media havent blown it out of proportion, but who has? ...Our own fans!

Any report Ive read it clearly says Fabregas forced to wear Barca shirt

Anyway anyone know anywhere to watch the match on Saturday? Arsenal.com arent even showing it they only seem to have an audio feed

L'prof

redout wrote: »

Me and Galv had settled our differences but then this chap got involved.

I would have been willing to let this go but that is now the second time in less than 24hrs someone in this thread has claimed I said something which I did not. I have pulled up both posters on this and low and behold I am still awaiting a response.

We've all read the article, Messi did say Barcelona were the only team to offer to pay for his medical fees, but since they were so small and he was so talented, it was pretty much a no brainer. You may have been misquoted, but I hardly think it matters.

L'prof

gibson wrote: »

Anyway anyone know anywhere to watch the match on Saturday? Arsenal.com arent even showing it they only seem to have an audio feed

There could be a stream online.

redout

L'prof wrote: »

We've all read the article, Messi did say Barcelona were the only team to offer to pay for his medical fees, but since they were so small and he was so talented, it was pretty much a no brainer. You may have been misquoted, but I hardly think it matters.

No that aint what I was on about at all.

Pepe LeFrits

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/33472/pre-season-training-exclusive-pictures

A couple of nice photos from a training session. It's pleasing to see Gibbs and Djourou back in action alongside the two new boys, as well as a couple of young uns. Wilshere, Simpson, Lansbury, Emmanuel-Thomas, Barazite and Henderson all appear to be there. I wonder what involvement (if any) they'll have with the first team in the coming season. Some of them had pretty productive loan spells last time round and I imagine Wenger will be using these sessions to assess whether any are ready for the step up.

#15

redout wrote: »

Its apparently obvious no other club would take the risk considering no other club offered as say Messi himself. Did you read the article from the Guardian ?

It's quite possible that other clubs were not aware of Messi at that stage.

If they weren't aware of him, then obviously they couldn't offer to pay his bills.

Barca got him when he was very young, it's not at all unrealistic to think that they got in before other European clubs were aware of his talent.

£6000 is a risk, but it's not as big as you're making out.

Galvasean

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/33472/pre-season-training-exclusive-pictures

A couple of nice photos from a training session. It's pleasing to see Gibbs and Djourou back in action alongside the two new boys, as well as a couple of young uns. Wilshere, Simpson, Lansbury, Emmanuel-Thomas, Barazite and Henderson all appear to be there. I wonder what involvement (if any) they'll have with the first team in the coming season. Some of them had pretty productive loan spells last time round and I imagine Wenger will be using these sessions to assess whether any are ready for the step up.

Which one is Henderson? I'd like to put a face to the name. He's Irish isn't he?

redout

#15 wrote: »

It's quite possible that other clubs were not aware of Messi at that stage.

If they weren't aware of him, then obviously they couldn't offer to pay his bills.

Barca got him when he was very young, it's not at all unrealistic to think that they got in before other European clubs were aware of his talent.

£6000 is a risk, but it's not as big as you're making out.

The risk is not just £6,000 per year on medical as has been claimed - what about uprooting a 13 year old lad along with his family and sending them halfway across the world (which Barca did) and then face the possibility his medical treatment proves unsuccessful and he never becomes a professional footballer. There is far more to it than just financial risk. I think you only want to see what makes your argument sound good. Furthermore you dont hear of many players moving from South America to Europe at that young an age. In fact that is the youngest I have personally ever heard. They always tend to be much closer to the 18 mark. As for clubs not being aware River Plate one of the biggest clubs in Argentina knew of him but didnt offer to pay his medical costs and neither did his own team Newells old boys. I maintain what I said all along that it was a move that involved far more risk than a regular youngster and am now finished discussing this situation to be honest as its been done to death with both sides arguing their views. Would still be interested in hearing from the two who claimed I said something which I did not though.

#15

redout wrote: »

The risk is not just £6,000 per year on medical as has been claimed - what about uprooting a 13 year old lad along with his family and sending them halfway across the world (which Barca did) and then face the possibility his medical treatment proves unsuccessful and he never becomes a professional footballer. There is far more to it than just financial risk. I think you only want to see what makes your argument sound good. Furthermore you dont hear of many players moving from South America to Europe at that young an age. In fact that is the youngest I have personally ever heard. They always tend to be much closer to the 18 mark. As for clubs not being aware River Plate one of the biggest clubs in Argentina knew of him but didnt offer to pay his medical costs and neither did his own team Newells old boys. I maintain what I said all along that it was a move that involved far more risk than a regular youngster and am now finished discussing this situation to be honest as its been done to death with both sides arguing their views. Would still be interested in hearing from the two who claimed I said something which I did not though.

River and Newells are not European, of course it would be much more difficult to invest that amount of time in a young kid.

All I'm saying is that had other Champions League teams been aware of Messi, they may well have taken the risk.

I know, woulda shoulda coulda and all that - but we'll never know.

I think we're broadly in agreement, except for the severity of the risk that Barca took.

I think you're overstating it, you think I'm understating it.

I think we're safe enough to agree to disagree on this one;)

redout

#15 wrote: »

I think we're safe enough to agree to disagree on this one;)

+1

gibson

Galvasean wrote: »

Which one is Henderson? I'd like to put a face to the name. He's Irish isn't he?

I think thats Henderson in the background just behind Nasri. Hes English but has represented England and Ireland and youth level so guess he has a choice!

OPENROAD

AnCapaillMor wrote: »

Nah reina's intro was more tongue in cheek i'd say, seems a bit of a joker, altho i'll reconsider if Reina ends up in barca.

Reina :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Pepe LeFrits

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/33472/pre-season-training-exclusive-pictures

A couple of nice photos from a training session. It's pleasing to see Gibbs and Djourou back in action alongside the two new boys, as well as a couple of young uns. Wilshere, Simpson, Lansbury, Emmanuel-Thomas, Barazite and Henderson all appear to be there. I wonder what involvement (if any) they'll have with the first team in the coming season. Some of them had pretty productive loan spells last time round and I imagine Wenger will be using these sessions to assess whether any are ready for the step up.

I see Djourou has a bandage on his knee?

tony1kenobi

Deleted User wrote: »

I see Djourou has a bandage on his knee?

He's minding it for Owen Hargreaves.

event

redout wrote: »

Me and Galv had settled our differences but then this chap got involved.

I would have been willing to let this go but that is now the second time in less than 24hrs someone in this thread has claimed I said something which I did not. I have pulled up both posters on this and low and behold I am still awaiting a response.

heaven forbid people use the internet at work and not at home

and i said you were trying to make out that they struggled, as if it was a major financial burden for a club that size of barca. I didnt state that you explicitly said it, that is what i felt you were implying IMO. you can dress it up all you want, but barca had to pay £6000 a year for his medical bills. outside of that, they paid no more than any other club would do for a promising youngster.

anyway, this is going nowhere, and i apologise for dragging the arsenal thread OT

redout

event wrote: »

heaven forbid people use the internet at work and not at home

and i said you were trying to make out that they struggled, as if it was a major financial burden for a club that size of barca. I didnt state that you explicitly said it, that is what i felt you were implying IMO. you can dress it up all you want, but barca had to pay £6000 a year for his medical bills. outside of that, they paid no more than any other club would do for a promising youngster.

anyway, this is going nowhere, and i apologise for dragging the arsenal thread OT

Please tell me how saying that "A lot would have just said this lad doesnt have a hope and wouldnt have taken the financial burden on." implies that they struggled to pay the medical costs involved ? As I said you are seeing things that are not there. If someone wrote that and I read it there is no way I would come to your conclusion from reading it. All I can say is that whatever you felt it was 100% incorrect. As for the £6,000 per year on medical there was certainly more than that involved and not just financial - they moved his whole family from Argentina along with him to Barca and took care of them from my understanding for whatever amount of years it took for him to actually overcome his medical disability and make it professional. Not the usual thing you see a club do with a child of 13 from that sort of distance away. The usual routine is that the youngster would move by himself to La Masia with the family only coming to visit on occasion. As I pointed out already there was far more risk involved with this case as opposed to your regular youngster and if you cannot see that then it is your own short sightedness.

FUNKY LOVER

are we still talking about this messi lark:rolleyes:

Quazzie

Are Arsenal signing Messi?

If not I really don't see the relevance any of this has in this thread?

yahoo_moe

Official Site - Expect Two More Summer Signings

Souless

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Official Site - Expect Two More Summer Signings

Lol you do realise this is for the Women's team right?

Also for the people who were talking about where to watch the friendlies http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/watch-three-pre-season-fixtures-for-3 With that said I'd imagine there will be at least a couple of streams where you can watch them for free

gibson

Souless wrote: »

Lol you do realise this is for the Women's team right?

Also for the people who were talking about where to watch the friendlies http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/watch-three-pre-season-fixtures-for-3 With that said I'd imagine there will be at least a couple of streams where you can watch them for free

cheers for that Souless might give it a go

Evil_Clown

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Official Site - Expect Two More Summer Signings

Mary Harney for Goalkeeper maybe, it would take some shot to get it past her

cson

Bit of an Arsenal bargain alert; if you go to elverys.ie and check out Arsenal training wear they're selling a red hoody for €19. Not too shabby.

DenMan

Thierry has signed for New York Red Bull. Incidentally he is expected to make his debut against Tottenham on July 22. An Arsenal legend forever. I wish him the best of luck in the MLS.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8820649.stm

Paleface

The boss is back!

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-takes-pre-season-training-pictures

Hopefully any remaining transfer activity can now be wrapped up sooner rather than later.

Arsenal1986

Torres out for first game of season against us is great news, Hes always brilliant against us

Evil_Clown

Arsenal1986 wrote: »

Torres out for first game of season against us is great news, Hes always brilliant against us

Now for Drogba and Delap to get hurt right before games against us......;)

Galvasean

Interesting... what other 'nemesis' players do we have? Players who always excell against us?

Torres, Rooney, Drogba, Delap, demonic possessed Spurs one shot wonder foot (Bentley, the young lad that scored when they finally beat us).

Galvasean

DenMan wrote: »

Thierry has signed for New York Red Bull. Incidentally he is expected to make his debut against Tottenham on July 22. An Arsenal legend forever. I wish him the best of luck in the MLS.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8820649.stm

If this had ahppened a few months ago we could have made basketball jokes...

SDTimeout

I think the white pre match jersey thing is really nice.

Arsenal1986

Galvasean wrote: »

Interesting... what other 'nemesis' players do we have? Players who always excell against us?

Torres, Rooney, Drogba, Delap, demonic possessed Spurs one shot wonder foot (Bentley, the young lad that scored when they finally beat us).

Crouch before he joined Spurs had a great record against us. My Spurs supporting mate says Jenas was always weirdly good against us (can't really remember him ever standing out) John Carew knocked us out of Europe twice back in the day didnt he?

cson

Ricky Fuller you can add to that nemesis list.

Any number of goalkeepers who have their game of the season against us. Yes Jussi Jaaskeleinen I'm looking at you.

Royale with Cheese

Shay Given and Brad Friedel are two that I remember nearly always playing their best game of the season against Arse.

Arsenal1986

Rob Green on occasion too.

On that note alot of players that are usually brilliant have had alot of bad games against us - I'm thinking here of Lampard and Gerrard.

Galvasean

Segei Rebrov. He was a monster against us. Never really set the world alight after.
Who was that Liverpool guy who scored that screamer aginst us before fading into obscurity? Neil Mellor or something?

Arsenal1986

Mellor or Mellon or something? Think it was his only ever goal for Liverpool and he was a striker!

Wreck

Robbie Fowler was our ultimate nemesis for a good 5+ years, oh how I hated him!