Arsenal FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 10/11

Pepe LeFrits

If there was ever going to be a time to remove his captaincy it was last summer. Doing it this summer would effectively be laying the blame for the team's performance on him and would be a very public humiliation. Might as well slash his transfer value in half.

Just as an aside Paddy did this to us every summer too.

sonic85

i wouldve given it to someone like sagna before cesc to be honest. maybe even clichy. neither would be ideal but cesc just isnt captain material

OPENROAD

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

If there was ever going to be a time to remove his captaincy it was last summer. Doing it this summer would effectively be laying the blame for the team's performance on him and would be a very public humiliation. Might as well slash his transfer value in half.

Just as an aside Paddy did this to us every summer too.

Think he will be sold in the summer anyway, lets just hope we get £££

amiable

Do people think Wenger will get all the Fabregas money if he's sold and if he does will he spend it all in your opinion Arsenal fans?

the untitled user

Sell Cesc for £40m, give the captaincy to Verm and pay whatever it takes to get in Hazard as a replacement.

I'd hate to see Cesc leave, but the injuries are taking their toll on him already. Remember, Arsenal reportedly turned down bids of near £50m for Henry, before injuries led us to offload him for £16m. It might be best just to cash in and rework the team around someone less injury prone.

sonic85

amiable wrote: »

Do people think Wenger will get all the Fabregas money if he's sold and if he does will he spend it all in your opinion Arsenal fans?

no and ehhh no! like the money we got for toure, adebayor henry etc it will just disappear into a black hole and never be seen again

sonic85

the untitled user wrote: »

Sell Cesc for £40m, give the captaincy to Verm and pay whatever it takes to get in Hazard as a replacement.

I'd hate to see Cesc leave, but the injuries are taking their toll on him already. Remember, Arsenal reportedly turned down bids of near £50m for Henry, before injuries led us to offload him for £16m. It might be best just to cash in and rework the team around someone less injury prone.

henry was 30 or close to it and cesc is only 23. injury or no injury cesc is worth more than £40 million. it is an inflated market after all. id try hold out for 45 to be honest

Pepe LeFrits

the untitled user wrote: »

Sell Cesc for £40m, give the captaincy to Verm and pay whatever it takes to get in Hazard as a replacement.

I'd hate to see Cesc leave, but the injuries are taking their toll on him already. Remember, Arsenal reportedly turned down bids of near £50m for Henry, before injuries led us to offload him for £16m. It might be best just to cash in and rework the team around someone less injury prone.

£40m would be a poor deal.

He's had his injuries over the last three seasons alright but unless we're offered real money for him I'd persist. Unlike Henry when he left, he's still young and isn't a player who relies on his physique. He's also hardly had a rest in 3 years, being constantly rushed back for us and has had summer tournaments with Spain in 2008, 2009 and 2010.

the untitled user

sonic85 wrote: »

henry was 30 or close to it and cesc is only 23. injury or no injury cesc is worth more than £40 million. it is an inflated market after all. id try hold out for 45 to be honest

Cesc is only 23, but the last 3 seasons in a row he's severely restricted due to injury. I'd just be afraid that's going to be the pattern for the rest of his career.

I just picked £40m at random mind you. I'd agree with you, given his age, ability and more importantly given the fact his shirt sales (of PL) are only behind Torres, Gerrard and Rooney he has huge marketing potential. I'd actually try and hold out for £60m-70m myself. If it were any other player of his ability we'd probably be guaranteed a bidding war starting around £50m (Ambramovich and Moratti love him, even Perez seems to).... but this ****ing Barca DNA ****! :mad:

OPENROAD

the untitled user wrote: »

Cesc is only 23, but the last 3 seasons in a row he's severely restricted due to injury. I'd just be afraid that's going to be the pattern for the rest of his career.

I just picked £40m at random mind you. I'd agree with you, given his age, ability and more importantly given the fact his shirt sales (of PL) are only behind Torres, Gerrard and Rooney he has huge marketing potential. I'd actually try and hold out for £60m-70m myself. If it were any other player of his ability we'd probably be guaranteed a bidding war starting around £50m (Ambramovich and Moratti love him, even Perez seems to).... but this ****ing Barca DNA ****! :mad:

And pound sterling, not euro imo

sonic85

the untitled user wrote: »

Cesc is only 23, but the last 3 seasons in a row he's severely restricted due to injury. I'd just be afraid that's going to be the pattern for the rest of his career.

I just picked £40m at random mind you. I'd agree with you, given his age, ability and more importantly given the fact his shirt sales (of PL) are only behind Torres, Gerrard and Rooney he has huge marketing potential. I'd actually try and hold out for £60m-70m myself. If it were any other player of his ability we'd probably be guaranteed a bidding war starting around £50m (Ambramovich and Moratti love him, even Perez seems to).... but this ****ing Barca DNA ****! :mad:

id love to get £60 or 70 mill for him but theres no way barca will pay that - they know they have us in a corner! when i said 45 i meant at least that - 50 or above would be ideal. probably doesnt matter anyway because wenger wont re-invest any of it. as regards cescs injury problems id agree with pepe - hes had little to no rest. every time hes injured hes rushed back as soon as hes half fit. a bit of a rest would do him the world of good i think.

this may have been asked before but anyway. barca wont pay £60 or 70 mill in cash but like the ibrahimovic deal they might do a player plus cash. any barca player in particular take your fancy - obviously excluding the likes of messi xavi etc

cson

I'd be inclined to be extremely sly about it if Arsenal were to sell Cesc; by that I mean maintain he's staying and get his replacement + 1/2 others in before we'd sell him.

Tbh I rather he stayed and we spent in the summer - next years league is gonna be waaaaay more competitive with City, United, Chelsea and Liverpool all having stronger sides than this year. Which is worrying if we have a typical Arsenal summer.

We should have nabbed Suarez the more I think about it.

NeoKubrick

x PyRo wrote: »

The team is covered by attacking central midfielder's. Arshavin, Nasri, Wilshere, Fabregas, all start regularly and they're all the same. We shouldn't have more than two of them in the team. Then we've a striker playing on the wings in Theo, plus it's the wrong wing for him. And a lone front man in RVP that should be playing the Bergkamp role in a two pronged attack. All combined, doesn't work. The old days were class when it was winger - central mid - central mid - winger, behind a man of pure skill (Dennis) and Theirry, who could do it all bar head the ball. Now we've ; striker (on wing) - attacking mid - defensive mid - attacking mid - attacking mid (on wing), behind a man who shouldn't be leading the line on his own (although he leads it better than Bender). Clichy and Sagna constantly overlapping the make-shift wingers is putting everything else under pressure too. It's all rather bizarre IMO.

The formation isn't the problem. The problem is that the central forward in the formation is specialized: he has to be an intelligent playmaker and goalscorer. Players of that type are rare and, fortunately, Arsenal have one in Van Persie but, unfortunately, he is injury-prone. When Van Persie plays, he encourages movement around him to create a highly dynamic and effective attack. Last year, Arsenal first utilized the formation and they were outstanding in the first eleven games; they actually destroyed United at Old Trafford but conspired to lose that game somehow. Van Persie gets injured on international duty and they lose two games in a row. That pattern is consistent with this season, too. Bendtner and Chamakh are not good enough to replace Van Persie.

I agree that this team needs real wingers (I was told to stop playing Football Manager at the suggestion of buying two wingers, a top-quality striker, and a defensive midfielder), because Eboue is the only winger in the team and even he is a converted winger. There is no cover for Song and I already mentioned that there is no proportionate replacement for Van Persie.


And I wholeheartedly agree that Fabregas can fuck off to Spain in the summer. The utterly brainwashed child wants to be a cog in the Xavi machine at Barcelona: an utter waste of talent that is. Fabregas has the potential to surpass Xavi's and every other great midfielders' accomplishments, because he has intelligence at 23 what they acquired at the 27-30 period. Roy Keane was 27 when he led United to their treble win; Xavi led Spain and Barcelona to tremendous success in that 28-30 period. Fabregas has had an entire team built around him and there is no excuse for him not winning the Premiership or/and Champions League at Arsenal. If I had his talent, I'd want an entire club built around me so that I could destroy a great midfielder and team like Xavi's Barcelona, not join them. His lil' backheel against Barcelona in the second leg was that of a kid showing off to his Daddy.

I partly blame Wenger, because his inferiority complex cascades down to the players who also think that Arsenal is not a big club and hence, Vieria's and Henry's positions at Arsenal became untenable.

Frisbee

Cesc leaving will be a nightmare. Whenever he doesn't play we hardly ever look like threatening to score.

We also won't get more than £40-50M for him. Wenger and the board should do absolutely everything in their power to keep him, but I do believe he's made the decision to leave in the summer.

greendom

keano_afc wrote: »

Genuine question to anyone that thinks the league isn't over: What makes you think that the team was was so abject and disinterested against Sunderland, West Brom and Blackburn will be able to raise their game and go to places like Bolton and Spurs and put in the neccessary fight to get a result???

Because, I don't think there is anything seriously wrong with the team; and I'm hoping the last few matches was just a poor run of form which finished on Saturday. The team have nothing else to play for and I'm hoping that Wenger can galvanise them and get them focussed when Man U have other distractions to worry about. I'm really hopeful we can end the season on a high. I don't know what happened on Saturday but every team gives inexplicably bad performances from time to time - it is hope more than anything else but I'm confident that will be our last poor performance this season.

Blackpool is a good place to go to get some good shooting practice in anyway

L'prof

greendom wrote: »

Blackpool is a good place to go to get some good shooting practice in anyway

I bloody hope so, the worst home record in the league faces the best away record in the league!!!

Frisbee

If we don't get a win at Blackpool, and a convincing one at that, I'm out.

gosplan

It doesn't fully excuse his form this year but if you look at the season that players in the premiership who went far in the world cup had - Cesc, RVP, Torres, Lampard, Gerrard etc, they've all been pretty poor.

Must remember that for the fantasy football after the next Euros.

Frisbee

Clichy has pulled out of contract renewal talks.

I can hardly blame him.

Royale with Cheese

Jaysus, it's happening all over again. Fall apart in March/April and watch a few big players walk out the door in the summer.

Quazzie

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Jaysus, it's happening all over again. Fall apart in March/April and watch a few big players walk out the door in the summer.

I seriously hope this happens. We need an exodus of dead weight and bring in some new faces. The whole team needs a kick up the hole and if Clichy thinks he can play for anyone bigger than Arsenal then I'd love to know who. He hasn't exactly been brilliant this year. If we lose some 'big' players I think it would be a good thing as long as they're replaced, but unfortunately for me, thats where Wenger falls down as a manager. No doubt he'll be looking for Gibbs to make the step up.

Royale with Cheese

Arsenal needed to make big signings anyway. If the big signings are made just to replace big players that leave (I'm thinking of others like Cesc and even Nasri whose contracting is running down) then there will be no improvement in the overall squad.

Clichy hasn't been great but I definitely think there's a place for him in the squad. Gibbs has been very unconvincing this season and it would be quite expensive to go out and get an established left back unless somebody like Sagna is knocking around France that Wenger knows about.

The deadwood that needs to go are the squad players really. The team that played against Blackburn was full of players that are technically good enough. They don't need to be replaced, just supplemented with seasoned professionals who have the determination to win things. Having players who are not afraid to get stuck into a tackle would be nice too. Also at least one pacey winger, this slowed down passy pass shíte leaves me wanting to shoot myself when I watch Arse these days.

Pepe LeFrits

It's hard to know what Wenger would do if Clichy decides he wants to leave. With only a year left you'd expect him to be sold, but as regards his replacement... hmm.

Gibbs has been poor when called upon this season though I think that's probably more down to injuries and a lack of football than a lack of talent on his part. It'd be a considerable risk to promote him to Clichy's spot but I wouldn't entirely be surprised to see Wenger do it. Pedro ought to be returning this summer so I suppose it's possible he might let the two of them fight for the place, maybe even use Vermaelen as insurance - he played there regularly in his last season at Ajax. Considering he'll be coming back from a long term injury, Wenger might decide to ease him back into the fray at LB (initially). I also think Koscielny was signed to partner Vermaelen, but the emergence of Djourou will have given him a selection dilemma. He may want to include Bartley in his first team plans too.

Pepe LeFrits

Oh, apparently Taye Taiwo is on a free transfer this summer? That'd have a Wenger ring to it.

Royale with Cheese

Vermaelen at left back could be interesting. Djourou and Koscielny looked solid and Vermaelen was always charging on up the pitch into attack anyway. His crossing couldn't be any worse than Clichy's too.

Put Bendtner @ LB, that's the only use i could see for him.

Frisbee

Gibbs shouldn't even be considered as a Clichy replacement until he proves he is capable of staying injury free.
Vermaelen could play at LB as a last resort but we need him in the centre imo and one of him and Djourou will probably always be injured anyway which will require the other one to play CB.

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Oh, apparently Taye Taiwo is on a free transfer this summer? That'd have a Wenger ring to it.

We've been linked with him recently, certianly strikes me as a Wenger signing. Cissokho from Lyon looks decent too imo, wouldn't mind seeing us go for him.

KaiserGunner

Frisbee wrote: »

Clichy has pulled out of contract renewal talks.

I can hardly blame him.

Where does he think he is going to get a better offer from I wonder? Its not as if he has been good for the last few seasons. Quite frankly his positioning at times has been awful, as well as his tackling. If he does move its going to be a step down for him as I cant see many top clubs going in for him.

Now I know this was years ago but I still have bitter feelings about his mistake at St.Andrews in 07/08 where we were leading 2-1 in the 90th min about to go 8 points clear at the top of the table, when all he had to do was clear the ball yet he turns his back on it and allows his marker to get in ahead of him and then he gives away the penalty to tie it up. If we had held on there we would have won the league. I dont think Clichy has been the same player since, so I think he is maybe someone that we should be replacing anyway.

greendom

RVP 11 wrote: »

Put Bendtner @ LB, that's the only use i could see for him.

Left back in the changing room ?

Frisbee

Juventus is looking his most likely destination.

He's never gotten back to his best of that 07/08 season but I still hope we try our best to keep him. Not a player we can afford to be losing and have to replace when we already have other areas of the pitch that are screaming out for strengthening.

G1032

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Where does he think he is going to get a better offer from I wonder? Its not as if he has been good for the last few seasons. Quite frankly his positioning at times has been awful, as well as his tackling. If he does move its going to be a step down for him as I cant see many top clubs going in for him.

Now I know this was years ago but I still have bitter feelings about his mistake at St.Andrews in 07/08 where we were leading 2-1 in the 90th min about to go 8 points clear at the top of the table, when all he had to do was clear the ball yet he turns his back on it and allows his marker to get in ahead of him and then he gives away the penalty to tie it up. If we had held on there we would have won the league. I dont think Clichy has been the same player since, so I think he is maybe someone that we should be replacing anyway.

IIRC it wasn't a foul..........incorrect decision to award the penalty??

KaiserGunner

G1032 wrote: »

IIRC it wasn't a foul..........incorrect decision to award the penalty??

Yeah thats true, but I was referring more to the build up to the penalty when he turned his head and lost sight of the ball. You can see the incident below, it all went downhill from there that season, much like it has so far this season since the Carling cup final.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UQgVPWrwfQ

Raskolnikov

NeoKubrick wrote: »

I partly blame Wenger, because his inferiority complex cascades down to the players who also think that Arsenal is not a big club and hence, Vieria's and Henry's positions at Arsenal became untenable.

Arsenal are a big club, the problem is that you're just not bigger than a number of other clubs in both reputation, and monetary terms.

This list is out of date, but it gives you an idea of where Arsenal are with wages - http://www.caughtoffside.com/2010/02/17/50-highest-paid-footballers-in-the-world-be-prepared-to-be-slightly-surprised/

There's 6-8 clubs that you simply cannot compete with on a financial basis.

partyndbs

NeoKubrick wrote: »

The formation isn't the problem. The problem is that the central forward in the formation is specialized: he has to be an intelligent playmaker and goalscorer. Players of that type are rare and, fortunately, Arsenal have one in Van Persie but, unfortunately, he is injury-prone. When Van Persie plays, he encourages movement around him to create a highly dynamic and effective attack. Last year, Arsenal first utilized the formation and they were outstanding in the first eleven games; they actually destroyed United at Old Trafford but conspired to lose that game somehow. Van Persie gets injured on international duty and they lose two games in a row. That pattern is consistent with this season, too. Bendtner and Chamakh are not good enough to replace Van Persie.

I agree that this team needs real wingers (I was told to stop playing Football Manager at the suggestion of buying two wingers, a top-quality striker, and a defensive midfielder), because Eboue is the only winger in the team and even he is a converted winger. There is no cover for Song and I already mentioned that there is no proportionate replacement for Van Persie.


And I wholeheartedly agree that Fabregas can fuck off to Spain in the summer. The utterly brainwashed child wants to be a cog in the Xavi machine at Barcelona: an utter waste of talent that is. Fabregas has the potential to surpass Xavi's and every other great midfielders' accomplishments, because he has intelligence at 23 what they acquired at the 27-30 period. Roy Keane was 27 when he led United to their treble win; Xavi led Spain and Barcelona to tremendous success in that 28-30 period. Fabregas has had an entire team built around him and there is no excuse for him not winning the Premiership or/and Champions League at Arsenal. If I had his talent, I'd want an entire club built around me so that I could destroy a great midfielder and team like Xavi's Barcelona, not join them. His lil' backheel against Barcelona in the second leg was that of a kid showing off to his Daddy.

I partly blame Wenger, because his inferiority complex cascades down to the players who also think that Arsenal is not a big club and hence, Vieria's and Henry's positions at Arsenal became untenable.

very ignorant about xavi, hes been an important player for barca for years now.

Blatter

partyndbs wrote: »

very ignorant about xavi, hes been an important player for barca for years now.

No he has a point.

Xavi was not at Fabregas's current level when he was 23.

Saying that, he is wrong to suggest that Xavi isn't better than Fabregas now, because he is. Maybe not by that much, but the difference is there nevertheless.

I think Fabregas can reach that level eventually, but it will be damn hard to surpass it.

partyndbs

ye but xavi has been the main midfielder since around 2000 with barca. youd have to ask the people who watch spanish football regularly but obviously in ireland where theres much greater access to english football someone is gonna think fabregas is better at xavi was at that age because hes 1 of the players that we hear about all the time(if you watch english football more than other foreign football)

Frisbee

Fabregas @23 >>> Xavi @23

Xavi now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fabregas now

Evil_Clown

Cesc involed in minor car crash this morning, trained afterwards so he is ok (if it's not international duty it's those damn cars trying to injure our players !!)

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/fabregas-fine-after-minor-car-accident-499904.html

Radharc na Sleibhte

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11670_6851939,00.html

Wenger giving out about us playing on Sunday from now til season end and the fact it is after United. I love him like a dad but Dear God, if it was before United he'd be moaning that they have an edge knowing what our results are. Shame we couldnt use the advantage as a motivator ourselves. No wonder they looked so lethargic on Saturday if this is our biggest problem.

I was reading somewhere how Wenger has an excuse for everything, the players see this and therefore have no fear of losing as there'll always be an excuse to back them up.

I would love him to come out and say he's pisssed off like the rest of us and unless there is a serious change of attitude at least, he'll be clearing out the dead wood in the summer.

Just to give them the boot up the hole that I would so love to physically give some of them. Why can't they at least show they care as much as we do. I'm hurting. Hurting real bad.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

MikeySligo wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11670_6851939,00.html

Wenger giving out about us playing on Sunday from now til season end and the fact it is after United. I love him like a dad but Dear God, if it was before United he'd be moaning that they have an edge knowing what our results are. Shame we couldnt use the advantage as a motivator ourselves. No wonder they looked so lethargic on Saturday if this is our biggest problem.

I was reading somewhere how Wenger has an excuse for everything, the players see this and therefore have no fear of losing as there'll always be an excuse to back them up.

I would love him to come out and say he's pisssed off like the rest of us and unless there is a serious change of attitude at least, he'll be clearing out the dead wood in the summer.

Just to give them the boot up the hole that I would so love to physically give some of them. Why can't they at least show they care as much as we do. I'm hurting. Hurting real bad.

Why do people only ever read the headlines of these articles? Granted there are times when he makes excuses but this isn't exactly one of those times.

"We have not been good enough, which is the main information of the Blackburn game, and we have to worry about being better in our next game.

He really does need to sort them out and give them a kick up the hole though.

Radharc na Sleibhte

"There are a lot of things going on which I don't want to talk about.
"I have been here for 15 years, I know how things work, I want to be completely neutral, like I have to be.
"I am not involved in any decision. I do not do the schedule. I look when do we play? It is on Sunday until the end of the season.
"But I do not want to speak about anything else like we look for an excuse about our performance.
"We have not been good enough, which is the main information of the Blackburn game, and we have to worry about being better in our next game.
"I have no influence on the fixtures, the referees, not on anything else here.
"Now we want to focus on our next game and show we are good enough."

Honest to God, have you ever heard search drivel from such an intelligent man?

gebbel

I agree that the entire team need a serious talking to from Wenger or else they won't be in the top 4 in 2 months time, never mind winning the title. If this happens, it might be the end for the manager. Now Arsene is a top coach, he really is the business...but these poor results cannot continue. He will have his work cut out.

Radharc na Sleibhte

Im only 29, so cant say with any deal of certainty, but this must be the worst quality top flight season in history?? I mean, imagine if we did go on to win it. Must be the most ordinary United team in years too. Its hard to believe, given how poor we are that we are a) second and b) within an (unlikely) shout of being crowned champions.

Screaminmidget

Frisbee wrote: »

If we don't get a win at Blackpool, and a convincing one at that, I'm out.

Same. I dont think im going to watch that match outta fear

Wegner really needs a kick up the hole imo. Im sick of his bitching and whining. I dont think ive ever hear him say "we just werent good enough today" or "they deserved the win/were better than us" and leave it at that.

greendom

MikeySligo wrote: »

Im only 29, so cant say with any deal of certainty, but this must be the worst quality top flight season in history?? I mean, imagine if we did go on to win it. Must be the most ordinary United team in years too. Its hard to believe, given how poor we are that we are a) second and b) within an (unlikely) shout of being crowned champions.

It's very difficult to quantify but still having 3 teams in the Champions League must mean the quality hasn't dropped that much unless its a European wide phenomenon. How much of the perceived drop in quality at the top is in fact an improvement of the rest of the league. For example, look how many clubs are involved in the relegation battle at the moment. The 3 teams that go down will in all likelihood have the highest combined aggregate ever. 33 points was enough to keep teams up last year. Probably need at least 10 more to survive this year

greendom

Screaminmidget wrote: »

Same. I dont think im going to watch that match outta fear

Wegner really needs a kick up the hole imo. Im sick of his bitching and whining. I dont think ive ever hear him say "we just werent good enough today" or "they deserved the win/were better than us" and leave it at that.

That's pretty much what he said on Saturday

Radharc na Sleibhte

greendom wrote: »

For example, look how many clubs are involved in the relegation battle at the moment. The 3 teams that go down will in all likelihood have the highest combined aggregate ever. 33 points was enough to keep teams up last year. Probably need at least 10 more to survive this year

True, good point.

Screaminmidget

greendom wrote: »

That's pretty much what he said on Saturday

Dead right, fair play.

Probably the only one though...
He does seem like hes given up in that interview though
Also, he keeps referring to energy??? I assume hes referring to the international matches?

Radharc na Sleibhte

Screaminmidget wrote: »

Same. I dont think im going to watch that match outta fear

Wegner really needs a kick up the hole imo. Im sick of his bitching and whining. I dont think ive ever hear him say "we just werent good enough today" or "they deserved the win/were better than us" and leave it at that.

He admitted we werent good enough on saturday, in fairness, but thats not exactly saying why, what hes gonna do about it, and then was followed up by blaming the fixture list.

tony1kenobi

Is Song out for the next month? I can't find anything about it.