Arsenal FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 10/11

Frisbee

Our first and third goals were beautiful. Counter attacking at pace with only a few touches from box to box. I jizzed.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Good tackle by Squillachi in the lead up to the third too.

newbie2

:eek:

Kroenke in advanced talks for control of Arsenal.

liamygunner29

needed a win and a goal or 3...if we beat Liverpool, United have to go up to St James Park Tuesday week after playing Chels in the CL and City in the cup in the same week, good potential for dropped points there and then Everton at home which is always a saucy fixture..Not over yet...

dvemail

Thought Diaby did very well out there today. He looked very composed over the ball, no
silly mistakes and seemed to pick out an Arsenal shirt with each pass.
Hopefully he can follow that up with a similar performance next week.

iMuse

What do people think if Kroenke takes full control?

Pepe LeFrits

iMuse wrote: »

What do people think if Kroenke takes full control?

There isn't much to go on at the moment but I'd be very worried. If it is a leveraged buy-out ala the Glazers, it'd be a disaster for the club.

Frisbee

I'm not a huge fan of anyone having majority control. I much prefer having 2/3 parties involved from that side of things so there is at least some opposition.

iMuse

Sky sources understand that American Stan Kroenke is in advanced talks to take control of Arsenal.

Kroenke is the largest shareholder in the Gunners already owning a 29.9 per cent stake, indeed purchase of another 0.09 per cent of the shares would mean he has to make a bid for the rest of the club's shares.

Uzbek billionaire Alisher Usmanov also has over 20 per cent stake in the club - but now Kroenke has made a move to secure full control.

Sky sources understand that Kroenke has come to agreement with fellow shareholders Danny Fiszman and Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith to purchase their shares.

Fiszman and Bracewell-Smith both own 16 per cent, and if Kroenke confirms those deals then under stock market rules, a take-over bid would be triggered.

Kroenke first took a stake in Arsenal in 2007 when he purchased the 9.9 per cent which was owned by Granada.

Kroenke has major interests in sporting teams throughout America as his company also owns the Denver Nuggets of the NBA, Colorado Rapids of Major League Soccer and the NFL's St. Louis Rams.

Source

amacachi

Do not want.

wandatowell

Its the timing of the move that interests me.

The deal to buy the required shares could well be concluded before the end of the season, Perhaps then Arsene might have a few coppers to rub together on few players.

Personally I couldn't care less about who owns the club or the whole "Well we are doing things the right way" argument just as long as the team is going in the right direction and winning I COULDN'T GIVE A SH1TE!!!!!

Right, if there is a takeover I want Kaka :D:D:D:D


From what I understand of the guy he is prudent with his cash, tbh I wouldnt hold my breath waiting for big money signing this summer

greendom

Is he a sugar daddy a la Abramovich or Arab sheik model or the Man United model, to ruin a club financially that was managing just fine by itself ? Obviously we don't want the latter but even the former would be typical - just as the rules about financial constraints come in, we get a sugar daddy :rolleyes:

Pepe LeFrits

I've seen it suggested that he's selling one of his US sports teams which will provide a pretty significant chunk of the funds required to buy Arsenal. Hopefully the majority shareholders won't agree to a leveraged buy-out.

reading this, seems to be a really good, balanced blogpost on Mr Kroenke:

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2010/03/is-stan-man-for-arsenal.html

sonic85

dont really know how id feel about a takeover. kroenke seems like the lesser of two evils but who knows? if david dein was still associated with usmanov id have preferred him to take control

kroenke is very business orientated ive read - he could well turn out to be glazer mk11 which would be very very bad for the club. even though he owns some sports teams in the US i dont think any of them are competitive as in wins titles or championships

the untitled user

Would not want Usmanov - he'd turn club into a plaything/propaganda machine. He may not necessarily damage the club, but I feel he would undermine much of the ethos and history of the club like we've seen at Chelsea/City. I would find it very hard to continue to support the club with someone like him in charge.

Not sure what to make of Kroenke either. His conservative profile suggests to me that he is someone who wouldn't care if the club ever won anything again so long as the commercial brand of the club remains strong. So I think he'll inject the bare minimum into the club, just enough to maintain the current profile and focus instead on aggressively growing the commercial revenues and making some cash for himself. So, footballistically speaking, I would expect things to remain largely the same.

iMuse

From the BBC

BBC Sport understands that he is to acquire the 16.1% owned by Fiszman and the 15.9% owned by Lady Nina for around £11,000 a share, or £225m.

That will give him 62% and control of the Gunners and means he must offer to buy out all the remaining shareholders.

At that price, the club has a market value of around £750m.
With Arsenal carrying debts of £147m, the deals value the club at £900m.

Am I right in saying, people can refuse to sell their shares to him?

peabutler

Papa Smut wrote: »

Am I right in saying, people can refuse to sell their shares to him?

I'd say certain size shareholders can, I don't like the idea of 100% ownership I think the fans and some others should have at least 10-15 %.

the untitled user

According wiki, when United were bought out 75% was needed to stop public trading in shares and 97.6% was needed to force a full total buyout.

Seeing as Arsenal aren't publicly traded, do the same thresholds apply when forcing a takeover? i.e. can Kroenke force Usmanov (27%) to sell?

peabutler

the untitled user

Guardian offering a bit more background on the takeover:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/apr/10/stan-kroenke-control-arsenal

Arsenal will make a statement to the stock exchange on Monday announcing that Stan Kroenke has control of 62% of the club, making them the 10th Premier League side to fall into foreign ownership.

Kroenke is already Arsenal's largest single shareholder, and a board member of the club. Now the American is believed to have secured formal undertakings for share sales from both Danny Fiszman and Lady Bracewell-Smith, who between them control 32% of the shares in the club's parent company, Arsenal Holdings. Added to the 29.9% he already owns, Kroenke would have 62% of Arsenal, ensuring he has complete control over the club's affairs.

For now the development remains unconfirmed, and following the club's 3-1 win at Blackpool Arsenal refused to discuss the situation, but a statement is due at the start of trading on Monday in accordance with Takeover Panel rules. Nonetheless, it is believed Fiszman has recently positioned himself to hand over his shares in an orderly succession to Kroenke, transferring the stake to a new nominee trust last December.

The 66-year-old Fiszman, who was previously the largest single shareholder in Arsenal, has for a long time been suffering serious ill health and his condition is believed recently to have deteriorated further. For the past year Nina Bracewell‑Smith has been marketing her shares across the world through Blackstone, a US financial-services firm, and the Guardian reported five months ago that she had at last found an interested party.

Kroenke is believed to have been the figure behind that approach. It appears now that he has stepped up his interest with a formal bid. Although the decision to move for the two available strategic stakes in the club triggers a mandatory takeover bid for every available share, it is the value of Kroenke's acquisitions that will point to what happens next.

Fiszman had previously diluted his position to 16.1%, with £8,500 per share having been his sale price. It is now believed, however, that Bracewell-Smith has achieved between £11,500 and £12,000 per share, meaning Kroenke may have paid £240m for the 32%.

That is significantly less than the £15,000-a-share Bracewell-Smith had hoped to achieve for her holding.

Kroenke's mandatory offer for the club will now be placed at the same price at which Bracewell-Smith sold.

The development on Sunday further sidelines Alisher Usmanov, who has a 27% stake through his Red And White Holdings investment vehicle. It is strongly possible that the Russian will decide to accept the bid from Kroenke and sell up his own shares. He would then be making a marginal profit on his prior investment. If that happens the American would hold fully 89% of Arsenal, adding the 125-year‑old club to his US sports franchises, including the St Louis Rams, the Denver Nuggets basketball team and the Colorado Rapids football franchise.

The Arsenal Supporters' Trust, a group of minority shareholders, said: "Stan Kroenke has always been a supporter of the AST and supporter shareholders. We expect him to involve us in talks about any plans he has. The AST believes that Arsenal is a stronger institution when supporters are directly involved in its ownership structure."

Kroenke has been a prime mover in the establishment of the Arsenal Fanshare scheme that promotes equity ownership by fans. Unlike other American owners of Premier League clubs, Kroenke is therefore believed to be unlikely to push for 100% control and delisting of Arsenal.

Malcolm Glazer removed Manchester United from the stock exchange after taking control of the club in 2005, as did Randy Lerner at Aston Villa. Sunderland and Liverpool are other Premier League clubs in US hands, with Birmingham City, Blackburn Rovers, Chelsea, Fulham and Manchester City being the other foreign-owned clubs in England's top flight.

yahoo_moe

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I've seen it suggested that he's selling one of his US sports teams which will provide a pretty significant chunk of the funds required to buy Arsenal. Hopefully the majority shareholders won't agree to a leveraged buy-out.

Yup, seen the same thing floated at different points and definitely hope it's the case. Even at that, though, I've had no huge issues with how the club has been run in recent years so I've never wanted a change to someone who has been consistently quiet about his plans.

I know there's only so much stock market rules allow people to say but still. Okay, he's given no major reason to fear a Kroenke takeover but there's no particular reason to be chuffed about it either.

I'll be nervous about this for a while, I think.

yahoo_moe

Papa Smut wrote: »

Am I right in saying, people can refuse to sell their shares to him?

They can but if the £11,000 figure is true, then it's significantly above what the last few batches of Arsenal shares have been sold at. The last few buys have been at £8,500 per share so it be a good return for most shareholders I'd imagine.

The growth of the share price over the last 10-15 years has been phenomenal really.

greendom

The fact that he encourages fan share sounds quite promising, but does he do this with any of his American franchises or is this just a technique to help with his popularity?

flahavaj

Welcome to our world lads.

L'prof

flahavaj wrote: »

Welcome to our world lads.

Fortunately it doesn't appear to be anything like the Glazer takeover in that he's not racking up massive amounts of debt in order to purchase his shares.

the untitled user

L'prof wrote: »

Fortunately it doesn't appear to be anything like the Glazer takeover in that he's not racking up massive amounts of debt in order to purchase his shares.

That remains to be seen. He's going to be forced to sell off some of his American franchises in the medium term future (according to NFL rules he has to sell his stakes in NBA and NHL) but it's doubtful he would have the kind of cash needed for the shares currently, so for the time being he appears to be borrowing.

Radharc na Sleibhte

the untitled user wrote: »

but it's doubtful he would have the kind of cash needed for the shares currently.

??? I think he does.

wandatowell

the untitled user wrote: »

so for the time being he appears to be borrowing.

Sure cant he ask his bird to lend him a few quid before payday

OPENROAD

Would love to see David Dein back.

http://www.ashburtongrove.co.uk/2011/04/david-dein-likely-to-return-to-arsenal.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AshburtonGrove+%28AshburtonGrove.co.uk%29

Frisbee

While Kroenke may have to borrow I don't think it will be a significant amount that would put the club at risk. Selling one of the Nuggets/Rapids will generate cash as well as his own personal holdings.

I'm still highly uneasy with the idea of anybody taking a majority share tbh but Kroenke has done less to worry me than Usmanov/Moshiri.

Also really sad to see Fiszmans illness seemingly getting the better of him now, hopefully he'll be able to recover.

flahavaj

L'prof wrote: »

Fortunately it doesn't appear to be anything like the Glazer takeover in that he's not racking up massive amounts of debt in order to purchase his shares.

The uncertainty alone is horrible.

L'prof

flahavaj wrote: »

The uncertainty alone is horrible.

It'll be grand I can't see us spending massive amounts of cash like one or two on here seem to be hoping for, but I do think Wenger will be spending this summer, so I'm just going to look forward to that...and ultimately end up being disappointed, as usual

Frisbee

If this heralds the return of Dein into the upper management of the club it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world as he wouldn't have any issues calling Wenger up on a few things and explainig that spending is needed and some of the current squad need to be taken out behind the barn and put down.

greendom

Not much more enlightenement here but at least it looks like the club is not going to be saddled with debt to fund the purchase

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/9453736.stm

The statement to the stock exchange said: "The offer will not be funded by way of any debt finance (banks loans, payment in kind loans or other debt or quasi-debt interest bearing obligations) for which the payment of interest on, repayment of or security for any liability (contingent or otherwise) will depend on the business of Arsenal."

AnCapaillMor

OPENROAD wrote: »

Would love to see David Dein back.

http://www.ashburtongrove.co.uk/2011/04/david-dein-likely-to-return-to-arsenal.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AshburtonGrove+%28AshburtonGrove.co.uk%29

Would too but not going to happen, he burned Kroenke when he went over to fat and orange.

bergkamp10

Mornin gooners. God there's a lot of ignorant "fans" out there who dont realise Stan Kroenke is ALREADY a huge part of us. He isn't comin in from out of the blue he's already here. 30% ownership triggers a takeover bid. Learn ur facts some of ye and quit this 'uhh lets stop the uuh fu**in yank comin in' . He's been here seven yrs. Kroenke is not starting at zero. He already has 29.9%. Or we could go to man u supporting (says arseblog) usmanov who owns 25% and showed he's all about the money wit a v dodgy share reissue idea rejected by entire board. Ehh, no thanks. Given the choice it has to be stan. Largest shareholder danny fizman sold 10 of his 24% to kroenke three yrs back, now ready to sell more. As is mrs bracewell smith at last. Hill wood once hated kroenke now loves him and has him on the board. And david dein was legendary yes, he did bring in wenger yes. But he was against leavin highbury against buildin fantastic emirates and did stitch up kroenke. I'm all for debate and most of you know ur stuff but can those ignorant 'fans' (Mostly on facebook and twitter) PLEASE get ur facts straight Or get off the bandwagon. Ta. I feel better for reading this boards thread. Rant over ta for listening Come On You Arsenal.

DB10

Seems fairly certain now Dein isn't coming back now that Hill Wood is remaining as chairman. The youth project will be continued and there will be no pressure on wonderful Wenger.

Also fallen into the hole of foreign ownership now as well. I'm sure Kroenke knows all about the tradition of the club all right, the club accounts more like.

Surprised there is no opposition to this move then again our supporters arent as vocal as most other clubs.

Evil_Clown

More up on the official site nothing new really, just re-confirming the fact that the takeover will not be from borrowed money financed against the club

Recommended Offer by KSE For Arsenal Holdings

Today KSE, UK, INC. (“KSE”) has announced an Offer for Arsenal Holdings PLC.

As part of the Offer KSE, which is a company owned by existing Arsenal Director Stan Kroenke, has committed to continue to operate the Club in line with our existing self-sustaining business model.

Mr Kroenke has a proven track record of successful long-term investment in sport and has confirmed that he has asked the existing Board to remain in place. This includes Mr Peter Hill-Wood as Chairman. Mr Kroenke is also fully supportive of Manager Arsène Wenger whom he has stated is a wonderful manager.

KSE has also stated that the offer will not be funded by debt finance secured against the Club.

The Independent Directors of Arsenal comprising of Mr Hill-Wood, Ivan Gazidis, Ken Friar, Sir Chips Keswick and Lord Harris of Peckham have considered these confirmations as well as the Offer price and, having received advice from an independent adviser, Rothschild, are recommending that shareholders accept the Offer.

DB10

Sad day for the club. Was hoping Dein would come back and Hill Wood would finally **** off.

The more things change the more the stay the same.

Frisbee

Looking forward to Sunday can't say I'm too confident. If the game was played in November I would have expected a win. But with Carroll to exploit our main weakness and Suarez looking sharp (is he injured?) it's going to be close. 3 points would be huge.

Pepe LeFrits

DB10 wrote: »

Seems fairly certain now Dein isn't coming back now that Hill Wood is remaining as chairman. The youth project will be continued and there will be no pressure on wonderful Wenger.

Also fallen into the hole of foreign ownership now as well. I'm sure Kroenke knows all about the tradition of the club all right, the club accounts more like.

Surprised there is no opposition to this move then again our supporters arent as vocal as most other clubs.

That's one whole load of assumption.

Frisbee wrote: »

Looking forward to Sunday can't say I'm too confident. If the game was played in November I would have expected a win. But with Carroll to exploit our main weakness and Suarez looking sharp (is he injured?) it's going to be close. 3 points would be huge.

Liverpool aren't without their own injury problems and considering we're at home I'd be optimistic. We'll certainly be shaky at the back if we're missing Chesney, Djourou and Song (Arsenal.com's injury updates are particularly useless) but with Robin, Cesc and Theo available we'll create chances.

Paleface

I don't think Stan Kroenke effectively taking control of Arsenal is a bad thing. As its already been pointed out by a previous poster he has been at the club for a number of years now so clearly has gained the trust of the fellow board members. Fiszman and Bracewell-Smith have wanted to sell their remaining shares for a while now so its best for the club that they sell to another board member.

I'll be surprised if Kroenke gets 100% ownership as I could see Usmanov not selling. He doesn't need the money.

I fully expect the club to be run in a similiar fashion to how it is now. Clearing of existing debt will still be a main priority.

Frisbee

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Liverpool aren't without their own injury problems and considering we're at home I'd be optimistic. We'll certainly be shaky at the back if we're missing Chesney, Djourou and Song (Arsenal.com's injury updates are particularly useless) but with Robin, Cesc and Theo available we'll create chances.

I've no doubt we'll create chances. But if they have Carroll and Suarez available I feel they'll not have too hard a time getting the better of our defence. they could employ a tactic of lump it at Carroll all day and even if we knew it was going to happen we wouldn't be able to prevent it. This is a game we really could have done with Djourou in.

DB10

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

That's one whole load of assumption.

No it isn't the information is on the official site, he's backing Wenger and the old toad Hill Wood will remain as chairman. No way back for David Dein as Hill Wood hates him.

Just heard there on SSN that Usmanov is very unhappy and doesnt need the money from Kroenke. Claims that the current board have changed nothing and won no trophies in the last 7 years nearly, and that this will continue.

Hope Usmanov could get in somehow with Dein beside him.

Blatter

Frisbee wrote: »

I've no doubt we'll create chances. But if they have Carroll and Suarez available I feel they'll not have too hard a time getting the better of our defence. they could employ a tactic of lump it at Carroll all day and even if we knew it was going to happen we wouldn't be able to prevent it. This is a game we really could have done with Djourou in.

It's unfortunate for Arsenal that Gerrard isn't playing. Always good for the ail backpass to screw us over:mad::pac:

Pepe LeFrits

DB10 wrote: »

No it isn't the information is on the official site, he's backing Wenger and the old toad Hill Wood will remain as chairman. No way back for David Dein as Hill Wood hates him.

Just heard there on SSN that Usmanov is very unhappy and doesnt need the money from Kroenke. Claims that the current board have changed nothing and won no trophies in the last 7 years nearly, and that this will continue.

Hope Usmanov could get in somehow with Dein beside him.

Usmanov is a scumbag and should be nowhere near the club. Dein likely prevented himself from ever coming back when he sold his shares to him and sided with him. We also have a new CEO now anyway.

I personally don't think Hill-Wood will stay on for too much longer, but he likely doesn't exert much influence anyway.

The rest about the youth project and no pressure is assumption. Kroenke's record in American sports seems to be one of being prudent without being miserly.

Kess73

Frisbee wrote: »

I've no doubt we'll create chances. But if they have Carroll and Suarez available I feel they'll not have too hard a time getting the better of our defence. they could employ a tactic of lump it at Carroll all day and even if we knew it was going to happen we wouldn't be able to prevent it. This is a game we really could have done with Djourou in.

Three missing from the Liverpool back four in Agger, Kelly, and Johnson, means that your forward line will no doubt have an easier time of it than you would have had if those players were fit.

Frisbee

Kess73 wrote: »

Three missing from the Liverpool back four in Agger, Kelly, and Johnson, means that your forward line will no doubt have an easier time of it than you would have had if those players were fit.

I knew Agger and Kelly were out but not Johnson. Could be a high scorer!