Arsenal FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 10/11

finty

wandatowell wrote: »

For me its not so much the whole trophy thing, its more the fact that the team is so spineless and weak. It makes sooooo many mistakes every single game.

Arsene aint gonna change and no amount of spending in the summer is gonna change this team around. It'll take a huge overhaul of the entire squad over the next few years imo

Have you not heard of the mental strength of this team?......Im sure I've heard mr wenger go on about it after most of our horrific performances this year.

Sútalún

Arsene Wenger on questions about Arsenal's mentality: "It is very unfair, we are on a 15-game unbeaten run and no-one else has done that. This team has an outstanding attitude."

Typical..

greendom

Sútalún wrote: »

Typical..

Yes typical that he stands by his players in public - I'll always admire him for that

Sútalún

greendom wrote: »

Yes typical that he stands by his players in public - I'll always admire him for that

I'm not unrealistic.. He's not going to slate his players in public clearly. But he harps on and on about attititude and mental strength when clearly thats the ingredient we're most lacking.

finty

greendom wrote: »

Yes typical that he stands by his players in public - I'll always admire him for that

I think the supporters deserve a bit more than that. Some trite rubbish about an outstanding attitude that is plainly not there.


Maybe a bit more honesty both to the public and in the dressing room would make people more responsible for their performances

peabutler

finty wrote: »

I think the supporters deserve a bit more than that. Some trite rubbish about an outstanding attitude that is plainly not there.


Maybe a bit more honesty both to the public and in the dressing room would make people more responsible for their performances

You don't get Sports Pyshcology, you claim they are mentally weak, if so you do not go about repairing that by berating them in public.

Akin to telling someone with Self-Esteem issues they are shít.

OPENROAD

I said it already a couple of days ago and I'll say it again, the best thing Arsenal can do is to get David Dein back asap.

G1032

finty wrote: »

I think the supporters deserve a bit more than that. Some trite rubbish about an outstanding attitude that is plainly not there.


Maybe a bit more honesty both to the public and in the dressing room would make people more responsible for their performances

Look. All these interviews and comments are pure spin. How do you know what he does or doesn't say in the dressing room?

cson

cson wrote: »

Really?

Surely they can't be as cataclysmic as ours though;

4-0 against Newcastle
2-0 against Spurs
3-1 against Spurs

Any I'm leaving out? They're sizeable leads ffs.

Of course dont forget the 1-0 lead we threw away the weekend despite scoring in the 98th minute

Arsene Wenger's full seasons

1998 (2) PL and FA cup
1999 No trophy
2000 No trophy
2001 No trophy
2002 (2) PL and FA cup
2003 (1) FA Cup
2004 (1) PL
2005 (1) FA Cup
2006 No trophy
2007 No trophy
2008 No trophy
1999 No trophy
2000 No trophy
2009 No trophy
2010 No trophy
2011 99% there will be no trophy

Hard to see the trophies Wenger has actually won amongst all the barren years. If Wenger was responding to the situation by buying players i could understand and while injury has played its part i think Arsenal, and more so Wenger are stuck in a time warp and if he isn't willing to change his outlook then its time to go i think

Arsenal are a business and every business must respond to the changing world around them or stagnate but Arsenal have stagnated.

Galvasean

OPENROAD wrote: »

I said it already a couple of days ago and I'll say it again, the best thing Arsenal can do is to get David Dein back asap.

Him and Wenger were a wonderful duo.

finty

peabutler wrote: »

You don't get Sports Pyshcology, you claim they are mentally weak, if so you do not go about repairing that by berating them in public.

Akin to telling someone with Self-Esteem issues they are shít.

Im not saying anyone should be berated.

You can only improve by honest assessment of performance.

Saying the attitude is great when it isnt simply allows player not to take responsibility.

We are talking about grown men here, not 10 year olds.

Do you think they'll cry if wenger tells them they played shíte and its not good enough?

Royale with Cheese

For some reason when it was 3-1 and Szczesny had left Bale in a heap on the floor, I thought they'd actually go on and win. Dunno why I was so stupid.

Another draw, another lead blown. Just be thankful spurs didn't do the double, was looking that way towards the end.

peabutler

finty wrote: »

Im not saying anyone should be berated.

You can only improve by honest assessment of performance.

Saying the attitude is great when it isnt simply allows player not to take responsibility.

We are talking about grown men here, not 10 year olds.

Do you think they'll cry if wenger tells them they played shíte and its not good enough?

If he say's it in public i'd expect them to react badly yes.

OPENROAD

Galvasean wrote: »

Him and Wenger were a wonderful duo.

Absolutely perfect, the fact that they were such good friends meant David Dein could speak openly to Arsene, push him in certain directions, encourage him to spend on certain players.

Pepe LeFrits

cson wrote: »

United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool and Spurs will all be substantially stronger next season.

Based on what?

peabutler

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Based on what?

Yeah it's spooferism, Pool will need to improve hugely away, City fair enough. Chelsea are still ageing, similar for Man U and Spurs will go back if they don't make Europe.

L'prof

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Based on what?

There's no guarantee they'll actually be stronger than this season, but there's a very strong possibility that they'll make more of an effort than we will to do so!

tony1kenobi

OPENROAD wrote: »

I said it already a couple of days ago and I'll say it again, the best thing Arsenal can do is to get David Dein back asap.

Why?What is it that he will do? I know he is Arsenal through and through and brought Wenger to Highbury but if he did come back what difference would he make? I don't really see what he would do.....he reminds me of Michael Sheen....just replace Kate Beckinsale with money.

cson

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Based on what?

They'll all get substantial investment in the summer, I'm sure of it. Will Liverpool have as disjointed a season? Doubtful. Will Torres be as ****e for Chelsea? Doubtful. Will City spend like a boss in the summer further strengthening an insane squad? Definitely. Will Spurs buy a decent striker? Probable. Will United buy a decent midfield in the summer? Probable. So yeah, overall I think all our competitors will be stronger next season. Will we improve? Maybe. Who knows. It's not as if Arsene hasn't been aware of our shortcomings for a few seasons now yet we still get the same deja vu this time every year.

@ whoever called it spooferism; its an opinion. The whole point of this forum. I'll be delighted to be proved wrong tbqh.

cson

peabutler wrote: »

Yeah it's spooferism,

---

> Pool will need to improve hugely away, City fair enough. Chelsea are still ageing, similar for Man U and Spurs will go back if they don't make Europe.

Rearrange the words 'Pot', 'Kettle' and 'Black' whatever way you want there.

Pepe LeFrits

Well forgive me for being skeptical but we hear it every season and it very rarely works that way. The FFP monitoring comes in so teams will likely have to start tightening their belts, most of our rivals have key players ageing and at least 2 of those teams won't even have CL football to offer prospective signings, or to help pay for the current ones.

peabutler

cson wrote: »

Rearrange the words 'Pot', 'Kettle' and 'Black' whatever way you want there.

It is Spooferism, it's the same tripe every year, from fans and the media, when it happens come back to me and i'll say I was wrong. It's lazy journalism in the media and an easy opinion here.

SlickRic

my 2c...

Arsenal must be the most frustrating team in the world to support.

and as much as i rate Wenger, and believe he's only behind Ferguson in terms of the greatest managers in the Premiership era, serious questions have to be asked of his management; in terms of the mental preparation of his teams.

it's pathetic.

there is no backbone. there is no winning mentality; no i'm going to fúcking die trying doing all i can before i let in a goal, or fail to score one, whichever the case may be. that team has no clue how to win, and hasn't done since that FA Cup final victory against Utd 5 years ago.

Wenger feels sorry for himself, and feels sorry for his team. and that translates to the players. i truly believe that's what has happened. i don't get the sense he baits them out of it for mistakes, and i don't get the sense he has a clue how a team is supposed to win if the pretty football hasn't overwhelmed the opponents.

i believe the players feel sorry for themselves, and aren't being given the kick up the hole they need. there is no impetus in those players to toughen up, because they see their manager making excuses all the time for them.

i don't know.

i certainly wouldn't sack him; i'm pretty sure there's nobody who could do what he's been doing. but that team needs a dose of reality, and someone to instill a backbone. because it's worse than ever. and Wenger is coming across as more helpless and 'whoa is me' than i've ever seen him.

a bit of a weird, slightly incoherent rant of sorts, but anyway

Galvasean

SlickRick wrote:

Arsenal must be the most frustrating team in the world to support.

100% with you there. They're capable of being so brilliant... and yet so rubbish at the same time.

Sergio

SlickRic wrote: »

my 2c...

Arsenal must be the most frustrating team in the world to support.

and as much as i rate Wenger, and believe he's only behind Ferguson in terms of the greatest managers in the Premiership era, serious questions have to be asked of his management; in terms of the mental preparation of his teams.

it's pathetic.

there is no backbone. there is no winning mentality; no i'm going to fúcking die trying doing all i can before i let in a goal, or fail to score one, whichever the case may be. that team has no clue how to win, and hasn't done since that FA Cup final victory against Utd 5 years ago.

Wenger feels sorry for himself, and feels sorry for his team. and that translates to the players. i truly believe that's what has happened. i don't get the sense he baits them out of it for mistakes, and i don't get the sense he has a clue how a team is supposed to win if the pretty football hasn't overwhelmed the opponents.

i believe the players feel sorry for themselves, and aren't being given the kick up the hole they need. there is no impetus in those players to toughen up, because they see their manager making excuses all the time for them.

i don't know.

i certainly wouldn't sack him; i'm pretty sure there's nobody who could do what he's been doing. but that team needs a dose of reality, and someone to instill a backbone. because it's worse than ever. and Wenger is coming across as more helpless and 'whoa is me' than i've ever seen him.

a bit of a weird, slightly incoherent rant of sorts, but anyway

100% agree with all of your comments except i think its time for AW to go along with a few of the very average players.
6 yrs is way to long for a club like Arsenal to not win any trophy.

eternal

Its a pity Arsenal only drew tonight .Id much rather to see them win the league than Man U .They are so less pretentious .

eternal

eternal wrote: »

Its a pity Arsenal only drew tonight .Id much rather to see them win the league than Man U .They are so less pretentious .

Well done, that put a smile on my face

pre·ten·tious
adjective /priˈtenCHəs/

Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed

eternal

Papa Smut wrote: »

Well done, that put a smile on my face

!! yeah picture putting the word 'culture ' next to a picture of Ronney swearing blind - priceless .

wandatowell

Galvasean wrote: »

Him and Wenger were a wonderful duo.

Like Tango and Cash? :P

finty

peabutler wrote: »

It is Spooferism, it's the same tripe every year, from fans and the media, when it happens come back to me and i'll say I was wrong. It's lazy journalism in the media and an easy opinion here.

Is that you Eamonn?

Pepe LeFrits

Wenger simply has to spend this summer, and he has to do it properly. The club needs to make a statement of intent. Another season of the same old will cause the match going fans to turn on him, if they don't already do so before the end of the season.

L'prof

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Wenger simply has to spend this summer, and he has to do it properly. The club needs to make a statement of intent. Another season of the same old will cause the match going fans to turn on him, if they don't already do so before the end of the season.

I have a feeling he intended to spend this summer anyway, but I'm afraid this really good be his last chance to shine. The disappointing thing is that we definitely have the players to win this league, but they just can't handle being pressurised and as a result make far too many costly mistakes!

SlickRic

it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to bring in one of the title winning lads to be around them for a year.

the likes of Adams, Keown...even Winterburn, Seaman, etc.

it sounds ludicrous, i know, but i don't think simply getting in 'experienced' players is the definitive answer.

maybe a player whose won regularly might help; that may cost more than what Wenger is willing to spend.

a whole mentality shift has to take place - from self-pity, to...

...'fúck this shít, we're going to do everything we fúcking can to make sure it's barely ever in a referee's decision's hands. we're going to do the right things, the cynical things, the often boring things, that it takes to win tight football matches. no more "it's everyone else's fault" or "we were unlucky", that doesn't help anyone'

some home truths have to be told, because in that team are a lot of talented players who are going to find their medal drawer very empty if they're not careful.

Pepe LeFrits

I think the team's proneness to collapsing under pressure is overstated as a factor in the team's inablity to win the league. It certainly has cost quite a few points this season... but if you go through our fixtures we've actually had significantly more games where defensively we've been grand, but offensively we've been dog-turd and created sweet **** all. We've failed to score 8 times this season and several other times we've only just about scraped a goal through an OG/last minute dodgy penalty/set piece and in terms of points dropped the cost there is higher.

peabutler

SlickRic wrote: »

it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to bring in one of the title winning lads to be around them for a year.

the likes of Adams, Keown...even Winterburn, Seaman, etc.

it sounds ludicrous, i know, but i don't think simply getting in 'experienced' players is the definitive answer.

maybe a player whose won regularly might help; that may cost more than what Wenger is willing to spend.

a whole mentality shift has to take place - from self-pity, to...

...'fúck this shít, we're going to do everything we fúcking can to make sure it's barely ever in a referee's decision's hands. we're going to do the right things, the cynical things, the often boring things, that it takes to win tight football matches. no more "it's everyone else's fault" or "we were unlucky", that doesn't help anyone'

some home truths have to be told, because in that team are a lot of talented players who are going to find their medal drawer very empty if they're not careful.

Aye, I agree. A lot of the potential signings being bandied about aren't winners, Sakho is at PSG the perennial failures. Inler at Udinese. Even Neuer, all top player's who i'd love to see join but none have a winning pedigree. I'd like if Arsene looked to the likes of Porto and other teams who win things domestically this season. However i'd ba happy if he spent positively at all.

Radharc na Sleibhte

MikeySligo wrote: »

He keeps talking about our mental strength.
One thing we most certainly are not is mentally strong.
I wonder has anyone thrown away more points from leading positions?

L'prof wrote: »

Sunderland, Villa, Liverpool, West Ham, Birmingham, Wolves, Blackpool, Blackburn, Everton, Newcastle, United & Fulham.

Jaysus, cant blame that so.
Ok......, has anyone thrown away such big leads?
Is any team as fcuking frustrating as watching Arsenal that makes me want to pull the pubes off my fcuking bottom half and chew on them?

bergkamp10

SlickRic wrote: »

it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to bring in one of the title winning lads to be around them for a year.

the likes of Adams, Keown...even Winterburn, Seaman, etc.

it sounds ludicrous, i know, but i don't think simply getting in 'experienced' players is the definitive answer.

maybe a player whose won regularly might help; that may cost more than what Wenger is willing to spend.

a whole mentality shift has to take place - from self-pity, to...

...'fúck this shít, we're going to do everything we fúcking can to make sure it's barely ever in a referee's decision's hands. we're going to do the right things, the cynical things, the often boring things, that it takes to win tight football matches. no more "it's everyone else's fault" or "we were unlucky", that doesn't help anyone'

some home truths have to be told, because in that team are a lot of talented players who are going to find their medal drawer very empty if they're not careful.

spot on sir and not one bit ludicrous. If i may, the person i'd bring in myself would absolutely be STEVE BOULD. All the attributes you mention plus, god, have any of you SEEN his youth team play. They are fantastic! In the same spirit as the first team only with width and they can defend leads! I've heard pat rice is stepping down after 40odd years loyal service. Now ye know who'd get my vote to replace him.

amacachi

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I think the team's proneness to collapsing under pressure is overstated as a factor in the team's inablity to win the league. It certainly has cost quite a few points this season... but if you go through our fixtures we've actually had significantly more games where defensively we've been grand, but offensively we've been dog-turd and created sweet **** all. We've failed to score 8 times this season and several other times we've only just about scraped a goal through an OG/last minute dodgy penalty/set piece and in terms of points dropped the cost there is higher.

Agree completely with that. I think (and have just thought this for the first time :pac:) that we're actually pretty damn strong at the back and other than howlers we do very, very little wrong. Hell, even counting the howlers we're not that bad. As you said, there's been matches where we'll camp between 20 and 35 yards from the opposition goal and yet in 10 minutes there'll be no corners or goal kicks. That last sentence may be a slight exaggeration :pac:

peabutler

bergkamp10 wrote: »

spot on sir and not one bit ludicrous. If i may, the person i'd bring in myself would absolutely be STEVE BOULD. All the attributes you mention plus, god, have any of you SEEN his youth team play. They are fantastic! In the same spirit as the first team only with width and they can defend leads! I've heard pat rice is stepping down after 40odd years loyal service. Now ye know who'd get my vote to replace him.

How's Ajax Dennis.

bergkamp10

In regard to my point on blowing leads, as a result of lack of leadership yadda yadda etc it hurts cos its true, i wonder has anyone totted up the total number of points we dropped not hanging on to 3points in games. In such an incredibly mediocre season, we should be 15points clear, even with all our faults.

bergkamp10

For my last post as i head to work , ill bid ye good morning with my three observations i made at the final whistle last night against sp*rs, if i may. 1phuc 2fu(k 3pfuk

amacachi

Just one question that may be way off the mark but what does everyone make of the team's fitness? I couldn't help but notice that when playing a game at a high tempo last night most of the players were fcuked after 70 minutes.

Pepe LeFrits

Hardly surprising, they played a 100 minute game a few days earlier while Spurs had a week off and had the home crowd behind them.

e-Mo0?

bergkamp10 wrote: »

spot on sir and not one bit ludicrous. If i may, the person i'd bring in myself would absolutely be STEVE BOULD. All the attributes you mention plus, god, have any of you SEEN his youth team play. They are fantastic! In the same spirit as the first team only with width and they can defend leads! I've heard pat rice is stepping down after 40odd years loyal service. Now ye know who'd get my vote to replace him.

Spot on with Bould, I'd say its nearly a given that he'll be stepping in at this stage. I still think we need a leader on the pitch either someone from the 1st team step up or bring someone in. Id love vermaelen to step into the role but Im not sure he's the answer. The quotes from Whilshire after Lehmann's first game pretty much sum up our major problem.

He was a bit like an assistant manager on the pitch,

Dick Burns

spurs(H) 2-0 up = 3-2
Wigan (A) 2-1 up = 2-2
Newcastle (A) 4-0 up = 4-4
liverpool (H) 1-0 up (seconds remaining) = 1-1
Spurs (A) 3-1 up = 3-3

points taken = 4
Should of Been = 15

Other Results
Arsenal 0 - 0 Blackburn
West Brom 2-2 Arsenal
Arsenal 0 -0 Sunderland
Arsenal 2 - 3 Westbrom

lads, if we had arsenal mental strength or belief in the team,last night was one the most depressing nights ever watching my team once again give away another 2 goal lead,look above and see how many points we have lost due to giving away a lead,we could be 6/7 points clear at this stage

I thought i would never say this but its time for wenger to move on,he has to take some of the blame,managers are in charge of a team,they build teams,train teams,create style of play,tatics but most of al build a winning mentality a mental strength

Now everytime a team loses a goal to arsenal they are not gonna panic cos they know arsenal are chokers,im a lifelong hardcore fan but ive never been so outraged in al my life at the way this season is gone,i respect what wenger has done for the club hes transformed it and im grateful,but our trophy cabinet is empty and if it means changing the manager to win trophys then so be it,we cant be sedimental with our manager,i guarantee 2day if you ask 100 arsenal fans if they change the manager if it meant winning the league in the next 2 years id nearly say al 100 would say yes

wenger i thank you for all the great years but im sorry its time to go

Royale with Cheese

Dick Burns wrote: »

spurs(H) 2-0 up = 3-2
Wigan (A) 2-1 up = 2-2
Newcastle (A) 4-0 up = 4-4
liverpool (H) 1-0 up (seconds remaining) = 1-1
Spurs (A) 3-1 up = 3-3

points taken = 4
Should of Been = 15

You can throw in the Sunderland game from earlier on in the season. Yeah Arse played rubbish and got a lucky goal, but were 1-0 in the 94th minute and managed to ship an equaliser 20 seconds after the 4 minutes of injury time were up.

Roaster

Wenger will never go until we start seeing 10k+ seats empty at The Emirates. This board is all about creating revenue 1st (wouldn't it be great though if they just reinvested some of it in WOW players, as Cesc would say) and trophies 2nd.

peabutler

Dick Burns wrote: »

spurs(H) 2-0 up = 3-2
Wigan (A) 2-1 up = 2-2
Newcastle (A) 4-0 up = 4-4
liverpool (H) 1-0 up (seconds remaining) = 1-1
Spurs (A) 3-1 up = 3-3

points taken = 4
Should of Been = 15

Other Results
Arsenal 0 - 0 Blackburn
West Brom 2-2 Arsenal
Arsenal 0 -0 Sunderland
Arsenal 2 - 3 Westbrom

lads, if we had arsenal mental strength or belief in the team,last night was one the most depressing nights ever watching my team once again give away another 2 goal lead,look above and see how many points we have lost due to giving away a lead,we could be 6/7 points clear at this stage

I thought i would never say this but its time for wenger to move on,he has to take some of the blame,managers are in charge of a team,they build teams,train teams,create style of play,tatics but most of al build a winning mentality a mental strength

Now everytime a team loses a goal to arsenal they are not gonna panic cos they know arsenal are chokers,im a lifelong hardcore fan but ive never been so outraged in al my life at the way this season is gone,i respect what wenger has done for the club hes transformed it and im grateful,but our trophy cabinet is empty and if it means changing the manager to win trophys then so be it,we cant be sedimental with our manager,i guarantee 2day if you ask 100 arsenal fans if they change the manager if it meant winning the league in the next 2 years id nearly say al 100 would say yes

wenger i thank you for all the great years but im sorry its time to go

So you wave goodbye to Sagna, Clichy, Nasri, Cesc, RVP, maybe even Verm, Djourou etc.

If Wenger goes we'll not only lose a huge manager we will lose our best footballers, no manager in the world could replace Wenger and those names all in one go.

Wenger won't go unless he is pushed, the club won't push him so we just have to hope the fans see sense.


Arsenal pre Wenger- Good solid club, average football, succesful in spells, Not top Echelon in Europe, 38,000 seater stadium.

Arsenal now- Consistently in the latter stages of the Champions League, top 4 in the league (having won it 3 times), pretty good football and a 60,000 seater stadium.

Pepe LeFrits

peabutler wrote: »

So you wave goodbye to Sagna, Clichy, Nasri, Cesc, RVP, maybe even Verm, Djourou etc.

I don't think so. Again this is something that often gets said about managers but how often does it really happen? The above players are under contract and if Wenger is replaced with a strong manager who shows ambition then I don't think we'd lose anyone we didn't want to lose.

Arsenal pre Wenger- Good solid club, average football, succesful in spells, Not top Echelon in Europe, 38,000 seater stadium.

Arsenal now- Consistently in the latter stages of the Champions League, top 4 in the league (having won it 3 times), pretty good football and a 60,000 seater stadium.

A good assessment of Wenger's legacy but largely irrelevant with regards to his suitability to be our manager going forward.

Dick Burns

peabutler wrote: »

So you wave goodbye to Sagna, Clichy, Nasri, Cesc, RVP, maybe even Verm, Djourou etc.

If Wenger goes we'll not only lose a huge manager we will lose our best footballers, no manager in the world could replace Wenger and those names all in one go.

Wenger won't go unless he is pushed, the club won't push him so we just have to hope the fans see sense.


Arsenal pre Wenger- Good solid club, average football, succesful in spells, Not top Echelon in Europe, 38,000 seater stadium.

Arsenal now- Consistently in the latter stages of the Champions League, top 4 in the league (having won it 3 times), pretty good football and a 60,000 seater stadium.

Arsenal now = No Trophys in 6 years,this is what im talking about,why are content with things staying the same so long as wenger stays,i love wenger,but id love more winning a fcuking trophy and i honestly think wenger is too ignorant to go out and buy a player or change things within the squad that could win us a trophy

players will leave regardless of the manager if we dont win trophys,cesc has ore or less resigned himself to joining barca,if we dont win anything next year,

wave goodbye to Sagna, Clichy, Nasri, Cesc, RVP, maybe even Verm, Djourou etc.