Arsenal FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 10/11

jmayo

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

I see this argument a lot but how many defenders from the Graham era played in the invincibles?

Lauren, Toure, Campbell were all signed by Wenger as well as Lehmann and Cole came through the youth team.

True that teams defence were built by Wenger, but what about the earlier successful teams that actually won doubles and got to UEFA final.
If it was down to that one team of invincibles, then Arsenal would have had just one league title and not three under Wenger.

Oh and speaking of the invincibles they had bags of belief and leadership as they still stayed on course to win the league even though they were dumped out of the FA cup and CL within a week towards end of season.

cson wrote: »

Strangely enough our unbeaten season featured a back five constructed by Arsene Wenger which rather makes shite of the had-the-defence-handed-to-him argument.

Oh FFS did I say he had every defender that was any good handed to him by Graham or any other manager ?
I said his early teams had a defense populated by guys from the previous era or perhaps you can tell us who were the defenders in the double winning sides of 97-98 and 01-02 and were league runners up in 98-99 and 00-01 ?

Let me list some of them for you to jog your memory.
In 97-98 defenders included:
David Seaman
Nigel Winterburn
Lee Dixon
Tony Adams
Steve Bould
Martin Keown
Also the club also had from the earlier managers.
Ian Wright, Dennis Bergkamp, Ray Parlour, David Platt

Bruce Rioch had signed Bergkamp and Platt.
Viera arrived in 96
Petit and Grimandi arrived in 97
Steve Bould left in 99
Luaren arrived in 00
Winterburn left in 00

Adams, Dixon and Grimandi left in 02 after another double.

Lauren replaced Dixon
Cole replaced Winterburn
Campbell replaced Adams

Keown went in 04
Lauren, Campbell and Cole went in 05.

Then although he purchased such good defenders as Toure there also have been such luminaries as Cygan, Senderos.

DB10 wrote: »

It's also strange how easily and quickly he dismantled that entire defence, and yet replacements were so poor, the likes of Campbell and Lehmann have had to be brought back years later, when they actually never should have left.

Stop pointing out things that questions the ability of Wenger.
It is not welcome by some around here.

PHB

Frisbee wrote: »

If Parker was 4/5 years younger it would be a good signing. As it is though he's starting to become very injury prone and that's the last thing this squad needs.

Except he'd be cheap. Experienced. Have the drive and is a leader in the dressing room. I think one of the problems that Arsenal have is that they don't have the older players to lead the younger players. Players like Giggs, Scholes, Ferdinand all play a big role in leading the younger players through the tough times.

Arsenal's first 11 is incredibly young, they could use somebody who is old. Even if only for his role in the dressing room. Ideally the person would be at the club for a long time, but since that hasn't been done, someone could be brought in, and Parker would be cheap.

The injury thing is an issue, but he's played 30 PL games this year. That's plenty.

Pepe LeFrits

Parker would be a useful short term option but there are bigger priorities.

I want a top class forward.
I want a top class forward.
I want a top class forward.

Frisbee

PHB wrote: »

Except he'd be cheap. Experienced. Have the drive and is a leader in the dressing room. I think one of the problems that Arsenal have is that they don't have the older players to lead the younger players. Players like Giggs, Scholes, Ferdinand all play a big role in leading the younger players through the tough times.

Arsenal's first 11 is incredibly young, they could use somebody who is old. Even if only for his role in the dressing room. Ideally the person would be at the club for a long time, but since that hasn't been done, someone could be brought in, and Parker would be cheap.

The injury thing is an issue, but he's played 30 PL games this year. That's plenty.

Very true. He has played 30 games, but for the past few months he's been getting injections to play. That's gonna have taken a serious toll on his body. If we signed him on a pay-as-you-play or for relatively low wages and managed him to an extent where he was only ever intended to play 15-20 games a season he would be a good short term option to bring his experience to the squad.

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Parker would be a useful short term option but there are bigger priorities.

I want a top class forward.
I want a top class forward.
I want a top class forward.

And a top class winger to supply him. Not an attacking midfielder to play on the flanks. A winger.

gosplan

jmayo wrote: »

Stop pointing out things that questions the ability of Wenger. It is not welcome by some around here.

You've been in the forum for about a week and all you've is moan, whinge and argue against words you tend to put in our mouths.

I'm not surprised you spend a lot of time in the politics forum tbh.

Ignore

gosplan

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Parker would be a useful short term option but there are bigger priorities.

I want a top class forward.
I want a top class forward.
I want a top class forward.

Is the African cup on this year? If so we really can't enter the season with no reasonable backup/competition for Song, especially given our injury record.

Second the motion for top class forward though. I'd love to see us go back to 4-4-2 but have no idea how it would suit our players. Can Walcott defend well enough? where would Nasri go? what to do with Fabregas and Wilshire?

Tbh I don't know but I just feel the 4-3-3 hasn't worked out for us and it won't because we don't show the steel of Chelsea or the workrate of Barca.

Pepe LeFrits

Frisbee wrote: »

. Not an attacking midfielder to play on the flanks. A winger.

That would be nice although I'd settle for a striker who could play out wide - I reckon Benzema could, or hell, if the new boy really was incapable of playing wide, Robin could play there. I know it reduces his effectiveness pretty dramatically, but he'd still be a better option than Bendtner, Eboue, Rosicky and possibly even Arshavin.

MaxPower89

I think Scott Parker would be a great signing for us. Bar the last few weeks, he has pretty much played all season long, so I dont really buy the injury prone bit?

He has been top class this year and would surely be an addition to the team, he is streets ahead of Diaby/Denilson. Is his contract up at the end of the season? If we could get him on the cheap, it would be a nice signing.

Pepe LeFrits

MaxPower89 wrote: »

Is his contract up at the end of the season?

No. One of West Ham's owners said they'll let him go if they're relegated, though.

Frisbee

Koscielny out with a thigh injury so looks like Verm may be in line to start on Sunday.

jmayo

gosplan wrote: »

You've been in the forum for about a week and all you've is moan, whinge and argue against words you tend to put in our mouths.

I'm not surprised you spend a lot of time in the politics forum tbh.

Ignore

Sorry I didn't know that one had to have a quota of posts around here to be allowed complain about things.

Is this your retort when I correctly pointed out that the winning teams of the early Wenger era had defences dominated by players from previous management ?

I moan or rather complain when I see a situation that has been allowed continue, where a team doesn't appear to be moving forward but actually backwards sometimes and where a management system appears to disregard the gaping shortcomings in the team.

Wenger has been a fantastic manager and brought a new era into English soccer I believe, but he sadly appears to be on a hellbent path come what may.
It would be great if he went out this summer picked up a goalkeeper, a couple of decent experienced hard defenders, an experienced holding midfielder, a half decent striker and maybe even a winger.
They don't all have to be the ones that Real, City or Chelsea are after, since that could make them unaffordable, but they damm well should have already shown leadership and guts.

The current Arsenal team have not alone some players in key positions with weaknesses, but even worse I hold the team have f*** all guts and leadership in it's ranks.

He may not have had the money to spend, but he still is doing some baffling things.
He plays people out of position, he refuses to buy experience for the short term, but appears hell bent on building his fantasy team for the long term.

He managed to prolong the playing careers of quiet a few of the old Graham era so why not pick up a couple of 29/30 year old experienced players and get maybe 3/4 years out of them ?

FFS the Milan sides had a backline that looked like a retirement home.

People mentioned the invincibles and I mentioned the previous teams.
All of them had not alone good and great players, but they had resilience, they had leadership, they didn't roll over.
You even admit yourself that they don't show the steel of Chelsea.
Hell you could nearly include most of the top half teams in that.

BTW there is a thing call debate and thankfully we don't all have to have your opinion no matter how long one has posted around here.

So debate me rather than just claim I don't have the right to say anything negative since I haven't been around long enough.

premierstone

jmayo wrote: »

Is this your retort when I correctly pointed out that the winning teams of the early Wenger era had defences dominated by players from previous management ?

Surely this is a compliment of Arsene's management skills so, because them same players were in dissaray before he's arrival

Seems like a manager cant win to me, if he inherits a struggling team and wins, then he was handed the team and if he flashes the cash and builds a new team he simply bought success

Why are people still banging on about a keeper? What has Chesney done to not deserve to be our no. 1 this season? Guy has balls of steel! First senior game at Old Trafford, first champions league game against Barca. I don't know what the guy needs to do except for changing his birth cert to make him a few years older! He'll be our no. 1 for the foreseeable future, and I for one am glad for that.

Sútalún

Papa Smut wrote: »

Why are people still banging on about a keeper? What has Chesney done to not deserve to be our no. 1 this season? Guy has balls of steel! First senior game at Old Trafford, first champions league game against Barca. I don't know what the guy needs to do except for changing his birth cert to make him a few years older! He'll be our no. 1 for the foreseeable future, and I for one am glad for that.

Agree, priorities (if Verm stays fit and Fabregas/Nasri don't leave) are a centre forward and DM. Then LB and Winger are up there too. Preferably all four positions are strengthened but I've learned not to be all too optimistic at summer time.

premierstone

Papa Smut wrote: »

Why are people still banging on about a keeper? What has Chesney done to not deserve to be our no. 1 this season? Guy has balls of steel! First senior game at Old Trafford, first champions league game against Barca. I don't know what the guy needs to do except for changing his birth cert to make him a few years older! He'll be our no. 1 for the foreseeable future, and I for one am glad for that.

Agree its like one of these things people hear it often enough they believe it, Szecney is a gem imo and could go on to be an all time gunner legend.

greendom

gosplan wrote: »

Is the African cup on this year? If so we really can't enter the season with no reasonable backup/competition for Song, especially given our injury record.
.

Another defensive midfielder that can be relied on do to a job would be wonderful. Someone with a calm head to bring on when we're leading a tight game. Hell he could even start with 2 now and again to protect the defence a little in games like Barca away or when the defence is down a couple of first teamers.

yahoo_moe

greendom wrote: »

Hell he could even start with 2 now and again to protect the defence a little in games like Barca away or when the defence is down a couple of first teamers.

I think different options in how we set up would be quite welcome. Nobody likes the 'Plan B' line but it's often true. No one player changes that and getting Chamakh in hasn't suddenly given us an extra option. Plus our crossing is muck.

Being a bit more flexible, both in attack and defence, would be nice.

Papa Smut wrote: »

Why are people still banging on about a keeper?

Have you not heard? Everything is wrong... absolutely everything.

the untitled user

Why do people still think we need a new CB? Verm and Djourou have both put in some world class performances for us, and Koscielny has done very well for his first season in the PL. Sure Squilacci is a bit of a liability, but he's 4th choice but we still have Bartley on the books, who given his performances for Rangers in Europe looks very capable.

I'd rather see us replace Denilson with a proper DM, and then invest in some wide players to give us more options on those days when we can't unlock the opposition defenses.

jmayo

premierstone wrote: »

Surely this is a compliment of Arsene's management skills so, because them same players were in dissaray before he's arrival

Ah come on those same defensive players were not cr** players before he arrived.
They were still leaders, they were still tough.
Fair enough he did straighten out some of their other issues and as I said he prolonged their top flight careers by I reckon about 3 or more years.

premierstone wrote: »

Seems like a manager cant win to me, if he inherits a struggling team and wins, then he was handed the team and if he flashes the cash and builds a new team he simply bought success

His early buys were very good.
Again I mentioned how well he spotted talent that had not quiet reached it's potential, were floundering (Viera, henri being two) and he turned them into great players.
He then added the likes of Lungberg, Pires, Laurent, Campbell, Toure which again were very good.

But my point is some of the guys he later brought in really haven't worked out and definitely have not been able to fill the boots of some of the greats mentioned above.

Even worse I think the current group of players are soft and lack mental toughness.
You could maybe say it is down to age and lack of experience, but most of these guys have being playing top flight for 4/5 years now.

He has been unlucky as well with some signings.
Rosicky has been injured most of the time.
Van Persie has never played full season.
Vermaelen was sorely missed and whether he will play all of next seaons is doubtful after his injury ?

greendom wrote: »

Another defensive midfielder that can be relied on do to a job would be wonderful. Someone with a calm head to bring on when we're leading a tight game. Hell he could even start with 2 now and again to protect the defence a little in games like Barca away or when the defence is down a couple of first teamers.

You can't hope to close down midfield and protect the back 4, especially against some team like Barca with just Song.

keano_afc

Papa Smut wrote: »

Why are people still banging on about a keeper?

the untitled user wrote: »

Why do people still think we need a new CB?

Arsene is that you??

Galvasean

jmayo wrote: »

Ah come on those same defensive players were not cr** players before he arrived.

He didn't say they were crap, he said they were in disarray. World of a difference.

Sergio

Folks as a hardcore longtime gooner i made a decision last week not to watch then anymore this season because its as good as over for me and im hoping things will change in the summer and we will buy some quality players to help us compete properly with the big boys next season.
This season is one to forget and a big let down for me.Talk to ye in preseason in july.

DB10

Colinboy wrote: »

Folks as a hardcore longtime gooner i made a decision last week not to watch then anymore this season because its as good as over for me and im hoping things will change in the summer and we will buy some quality players to help us compete properly with the big boys next season.
This season is one to forget and a big let down for me.Talk to ye in preseason in july.

good luck mate, Im the same, couldnt give one iota now were we finish or what happens in the remaining games.

A clearout of rubbish is needed. They should be playing for their places, instead we see the likes of Bendtner claiming he would love to play for Barcelona.

First out the door:

Barndoor Barry

Never seen such a a difference between arrogance levels and skill levels.

L'prof

Congatulations to City, they've won a trophy and clinched CL football, while on the way showing Wenger that he needs to spend to ensure the success that he deserves. £383m and silverware will be ours in 4 years time! Splash the cash Wenger, we all know you've got it!

Blatter

L'prof wrote: »

Congatulations to City, they've won a trophy and clinched CL football, while on the way showing Wenger that he needs to spend to ensure the success that he deserves. £383m and silverware will be ours in 4 years time! Splash the cash Wenger, we all know you've got it!

And Real Madrid, how much did they spend for the Copa del Rey again?

L'prof

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

And Real Madrid, how much did they spend for the Copa del Rey again?

A mere €266m, although they'd be in a better position to finance such expenditure.

cson

Frisbee wrote: »

And a top class winger to supply him. Not an attacking midfielder to play on the flanks. A winger.

Raid Porto for Falcao and Hulk.

Sorted.

amiable

cson wrote: »

Raid Porto for Falcao and Hulk.

Sorted.

I think Hulk signed a new contract at Porto and there's been a slight change in his ownership

Panthro

did this get posted before? Gave me a bit of a giggle!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQYob9E0q-Y

cson

Ah that's only about the 4th time its been posted here. I still get a good laugh at it - "is this a ****ing conspiracy!"

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Has anyone else noticed that Almunia and Denilson haven't been mentioned at all when Wenger talks about the current players who are injured?

They're also not listed on the injury news section of the official site.

I can only imagine it means they're off in the summer. Which I dont think anyone will be too upset about.

Frisbee

He killed Denilson two months ago and buried him under his patio.

cson

Frisbee wrote: »

He killed Denilson two months ago and buried him under his patio.

Along with the real Tomas Rosicky.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Well Denilson is on the bench so there goes that theory!

greendom

Well the race for 2nd place is still alive (he says very optimistically holding his half full glass)

I've just broken my glass

The Gruniad

From the Guardian facts:

The Gruniad wrote:

The Emirates is the only stadium that has not seen a goal scored with a shot from outside the area this season

Ugh.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Papa Smut wrote: »

From the Guardian facts:




Ugh.

It's interesting that last season we scored the most goals from outside rthe box in the league.

Frisbee

We need more nutjobs in the team. Someone who is guaranteed to get three red cards a season purely for being mental.

SDTimeout

That was like texting a girl you know will just f*ck you around but you re-assure yourself it can't possibly help again.

Gutless

SDTimeout

and my god will we EVER get to use this again!!?

OPENROAD

I just feel empty at the moment and its bloody cold

Royale with Cheese

I'm off to go hang myself. See you later lads.

Frisbee

Our form since losing against Birmingham:

LWDLLDDWDDLWLL


Pathetic.

SDTimeout

Frisbee wrote: »

Our form since losing against Birmingham:

LWDLLDDWDDLWLL


Pathetic.

United, Blackpool and Orient are the W's....

Frisbee

SDTimeout wrote: »

United, Blackpool and Orient are the W's....

Yup, nauseating.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Frisbee wrote: »

Our form since losing against Birmingham:

LWDLLDDWDDLWLL


Pathetic.

That's absolutely disgraceful.

gosplan

Fu*k that.

I'm annoyed at the performance and everything but I'm sick to death of never getting anything from the refs.

Really, it's getting a bit too much.

peabutler

Pat Rice should have been given a send off, IMHO he won't sign a new contract.

Royale with Cheese

In the same way that people shouldn't use the ref as an excuse for that kind of performance, people shouldn't forget just how awful he was purely because Arse didn't deserve to win anyway.

Seriously, he was a total cúnt.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

peabutler wrote: »

Pat Rice should have been given a send off, IMHO he won't sign a new contract.

It has been confirmed that he will stick around for at least another year.