Arsenal FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 10/11

Quazzie

flahavaj wrote: »

Right, who could have done a better job and kept the players at the club that he had assembled? Start namimg names boys.

There are lots of managers who given the financial backing that is being reported could've easily done as good a job if not better. Just because Wenger doesn't use the resources available to him doesn't make him better than a manager who does and wins the league. Wenger is an economics graduate and a business man moreso than a manager at this stage. If he wants that he should move upstairs and leave the management to someone who appears more interested.

flahavaj

flahavaj wrote: »

Right, who could have done a better job and kept the players at the club that he had assembled? Start namimg names boys.

This question is also for gibson and DB10.

flahavaj

Quazzie wrote: »

There are lots of managers who given the financial backing that is being reported could've easily done as good a job if not better. Just because Wenger doesn't use the resources available to him doesn't make him better than a manager who does and wins the league. Wenger is an economics graduate and a business man moreso than a manager at this stage. If he wants that he should move upstairs and leave the management to someone who appears more interested.

Who?

Quazzie

Mourinho. If you want obvious answers I'll name the most obvious.

flahavaj

Quazzie wrote: »

Mourinho. If you want obvious answers I'll name the most obvious.

Realistic ones obviously would be nice.

OPENROAD

Three Arsenal players in the England squad :eek::eek::eek:

gibson

Im sure the likes of Hiddink, Mourihno, Ancelotti could have given it a fair crack

you said name anyone and we did

greendom

Quazzie wrote: »

No blindly following him when other managers could've done better without questioning him doesn't make sense. He's done a good job but we as fans are entitled to ask could someone else have done better.

What kept Arsenal in the top 4 every year for what is it now 14 years? while building the club from the roots up. Arranged the set-up of a fantastic youth system and having a magnificent stadium built with results on the pitch hardly suffering. Having said that, I imagine that if we were still playing at Highbury the trophy cabinet would probably be fuller but Arsene has ensured the future prosperity of the club.

Pretty short list I would imagine...?

Quazzie

greendom wrote: »

What kept Arsenal in the top 4 every year for what is it now 14 years? while building the club from the roots up. Arranged the set-up of a fantastic youth system and having a magnificent stadium built with results on the pitch hardly suffering. Having said that, I imagine that if we were still playing at Highbury the trophy cabinet would probably be fuller but Arsene has ensured the future prosperity of the club.

Pretty short list I would imagine...?

Could he not have done all that while a manager won some trophies?

Also Flahajav why is Mourinho unrealistic?

gibson

greendom wrote: »

What kept Arsenal in the top 4 every year for what is it now 14 years? while building the club from the roots up. Arranged the set-up of a fantastic youth system and having a magnificent stadium built with results on the pitch hardly suffering. Having said that, I imagine that if we were still playing at Highbury the trophy cabinet would probably be fuller but Arsene has ensured the future prosperity of the club.

Pretty short list I would imagine...?

this i think is half the problem though. Id never dream of saying Wenger has done anything but a fantastic job but what hes done is in the past now and im just not sure he can do it again. Are people really happy at the prospect of having Almunia, Fabianski and Mannone as our choice again? honestly?

greendom

It's all a bit of an over-reaction anyway isn't it? It was only a pre-season friendly after all, with half the first team missing. I'm not denying that we do need reinforcements at the back but there is still 23 days or so to sort that out.

#15

DB10 wrote: »

Why is that such a far out thought?

Another manager could very well have done better in the last 5 years.

Who exactly?

Besides SAF or Jose, I'm struggling to see who.

Hiddink maybe? Would he have gone to Arsenal 5 years ago?

It's all well and good saying someone could have done better, but you can say that about any manager. An unidentified hypothetical someone could always do better than a real manager.

If Wenger left Arsenal, practically every club in the world - bar Utd, Real and Barca - would be interested.
And even then, those three clubs have question marks over how long their managers will stay, so they would probably sound him out too.

gibson

greendom wrote: »

It's all a bit of an over-reaction anyway isn't it? It was only a pre-season friendly after all, with half the first team missing. I'm not denying that we do need reinforcements at the back but there is still 23 days or so to sort that out.

come on do you really think im saying all this because of a friendly!!

im not that mad!!

greendom

Quazzie wrote: »

Could he not have done all that while a manager won some trophies?

Also Flahajav why is Mourinho unrealistic?

Only at the cost of putting the club into severe debt, hoping desperately for some wealthy business magnate to bail us out.

Quazzie

greendom wrote: »

It's all a bit of an over-reaction anyway isn't it? It was only a pre-season friendly after all, with half the first team missing. I'm not denying that we do need reinforcements at the back but there is still 23 days or so to sort that out.

For me the lack of a decent keeper at the club and starting the season with 3 centre backs who never played together competitively is the major point that suggests Wenger isn't doing his job right.

flahavaj

Quazzie wrote: »

Could he not have done all that while a manager won some trophies?

Also Flahajav why is Mourinho unrealistic?

At what point in the last 5 years was Mourinho available to go to Arsenal?

And at those points what makes you think he'd have wanted to manage ye?

DB10

#15 wrote: »

Who exactly?

Besides SAF or Jose, I'm struggling to see who.

Hiddink maybe? Would he have gone to Arsenal 5 years ago?

It's all well and good saying someone could have done better, but you can say that about any manager. An unidentified hypothetical someone could always do better than a real manager.

If Wenger left Arsenal, practically every club in the world - bar Utd, Real and Barca - would be interested.
And even then, those three clubs have question marks over how long their managers will stay, so they would probably sound him out too.

Who was Wenger 15 years ago? A nobody really.

Why would the new manager have to be a big name? I mean we don't buy star players now either.

#15

Quazzie wrote: »

Also Flahajav why is Mourinho unrealistic?

He's a bit high-profile for Arsenal maybe. Since Porto, he has gone for either top drawer clubs with European pedigree (Inter, Real) or filthy rich clubs (you know who).

I'm not sure Arsenal fit into either of those categories.

DB10

flahavaj wrote: »

At what point in the last 5 years was Mourinho available to go to Arsenal?

And at those points what makes you think he'd have wanted to manage ye?

I'm sorry but I don't think you can fully get all this if you aren't an Arsenal fan. That isn't a dig, I just feel its easy looking in from the outside.

All United, Chelsea fans I know big up Wenger when he isn't a threat to them.

Quazzie

Why would he not. We're as big if not a bigger club than Inter Milan due to the decreasing appeal of the Italian league. He went to them so why not to us.

When we look back in ten years I'd rather look back remembering us winning the treble than looking back thinking 'oh yea we saved loads of money'.

DB10

#15 wrote: »

He's a bit high-profile for Arsenal maybe. Since Porto, he has gone for either top drawer clubs with European pedigree (Inter, Real) or filthy rich clubs (you know who).

I'm not sure Arsenal fit into either of those categories.

Why aren't we a top draw club? Has the mindset of Wenger kicked in that we are achieving above our means?

We are the 3rd biggest club in Britain and by a long way.

OPENROAD

Bring back David Dein !!

#15

DB10 wrote: »

Who was Wenger 15 years ago? A nobody really.

Why would the new manager have to be a big name? I mean we don't buy star players now either.

Ok, sack Wenger, get in an unknown. Great plan.

gibson

DB10 wrote: »

Why aren't we a top draw club? Has the mindset of Wenger kicked in that we are achieving above our means?

We are the 3rd biggest club in Britain and by a long way.

well definitely 3rd biggest in England its not like Celtic or Rangers are bigger than us

flahavaj

DB10 wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't think you can fully get all this if you aren't an Arsenal fan. That isn't a dig, I just feel its easy looking in from the outside.

All United, Chelsea fans I know big up Wenger when he isn't a threat to them.

You don't have to be an Arsenal fan to know there are few managers who would have done a better job at the club in the last five years, especially ones who were availabale at the time and would have realistically been in a position/wanted to take the job.

Silly line of argument tbh.

L'prof

DB10 wrote: »

Who was Wenger 15 years ago? A nobody really.

Why would the new manager have to be a big name? I mean we don't buy star players now either.

No offence, but get the boat. Wenger was one in a million, we took a chance and it paid off big time. We'll never get that lucky again. Of course it's possible, just highly unlikely!

#15

DB10 wrote: »

Why aren't we a top draw club? Has the mindset of Wenger kicked in that we are achieving above our means?

We are the 3rd biggest club in Britain and by a long way.

Are you though? Historically yes, but a top manager would possibly rank you fifth, putting Chelsea and City ahead.

Looking at it purely from a managerial perspective.

DB10

#15 wrote: »

Ok, sack Wenger, get in an unknown. Great plan.

You're ridiculous...:rolleyes:

You are typical of the people gibson was talking about. You can't have a conversation about a new manager without being mocked for not worshipping Wenger.

Nowhere in this thread have I said Wenger should be sacked , get a clue.

#15

DB10 wrote: »

You're ridiculous...:rolleyes:

You are typical of the people gibson was talking about. You can't have a conversation about a new manager without being mocked for not worshipping Wenger.

Nowhere in this thread have I said Wenger should be sacked , get a clue.

It was a wisecrack, lighten up.

Paleface

Anyone on here spouting negatives about Wenger is not seeing the bigger picture. The guy is one of the best managers in the game that any club would be lucky to have. A lot of our current squad would not be at Arsenal if it weren't for him and would follow him wherever he went to in a heartbeat.

flahavaj

Quazzie wrote: »

Why would he not. We're as big if not a bigger club than Inter Milan due to the decreasing appeal of the Italian league. He went to them so why not to us.

When we look back in ten years I'd rather look back remembering us winning the treble than looking back thinking 'oh yea we saved loads of money'.

Ignoring your argument against the Italian league, I'm not sure Mourinho would have gone to any English club after Chelsea. He has stated on numerous occasions that his ambition was to win the league/have European success with clubs from alln the major leagues in Europe.

So far, for all the empty talk of imaginary alternative managers, ye are all struggling to come up with realistic alternatives. Blindly naming the best managers around isn't good enough. It seeme to me ye haven't really thought this thing through properly tbh.

DB10

#15 wrote: »

Are you though? Historically yes, but a top manager would possibly rank you fifth, putting Chelsea and City ahead.

Looking at it purely from a managerial perspective.

I find it highly ironic neither you or Flahav support Arsenal.

As fans of other sides, I think your opinion isn't as relevant and you are also putting down our club.

We are the 3rd biggest club, City have a load of cash that's all. We have a great Academy, lots of money, big support and a new stadium.

gibson

#15 wrote: »

Are you though? Historically yes, but a top manager would possibly rank you fifth, putting Chelsea and City ahead.

Looking at it purely from a managerial perspective.

City!! City!!! haha no way are City a bigger club than Arsenal to a manager a fan or my nan!

FearDark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_lBo2Mm8mk

Right, so a pre-season friendly, I'll try not to read too much into this because maybe Wenger told them to take it really easy today to avoid injuries before the big kick off, but - in all honestly if Wenger cant see that we need a couple more proper centre backs and a goalkeeper who isnt completely shít he seriously needs to fúck off because im sick to the teeth of hearing excuses about money, stadium blah blah blah, fúck sake Wenger just get a fúcking keeper, Fabianski is horrible, utterly utterly horrible, Almunia is brilliant for 89mins of a game then looses the plot once a game and costs us points. Im giving kocheily or however its spelt the benefit of the doubt because I havnt seen enough of him yet but he was SEPTIC today.

No more excuses, keeper and a few cb's are needed now, and Eboue needs to start ahead of that headless chicken Wallcott too every game because he is shocking.

flahavaj

DB10 wrote: »

I find it highly ironic neither you or Flahav support Arsenal.

As fans of other sides, I think your opinion isn't as relevant and you are also putting down our club.

I'n not putting Arsenal down. If anything I'm showing more respect to the great manager that has transformed your club than you yourself are.

"You're not a supporter so you don't understand" is a rather weak and insidious argument that is very easy to throw out when a debate takes a turn you don't like.

We are the 3rd biggest club, City have a load of cash that's all. We have a great Academy, lots of money, big support and a new stadium.

You'd be well advised to remember that most of this is down to one man more than any other. Be grateful for him, mate, when he does leave you'll realise what ye had.

DB10

Paleface wrote: »

A lot of our current squad would not be at Arsenal if it weren't for him

That is a good and bad thing wouldn't you say..

and would follow him wherever he went to in a heartbeat.

Well that would be a very bad situation for the club to be in but one that I'm fairly sure isn't correct.

Wenger would most likely go abroad, he would never ravage our squad and few of the players would leave if we are competitive.

Sure our best players leave every summer anyway....

gibson

flahavaj wrote: »

Ignoring your argument against the Italian league, I'm not sure Mourinho would have gone to any English club after Chelsea. He has stated on numerous occasions that his ambition was to win the league/have European success with clubs from alln the major leagues in Europe.

So far, for all the empty talk of imaginary alternative managers, ye are all struggling to come up with realistic alternatives. Blindly naming the best managers around isn't good enough. It seeme to me ye haven't really thought this thing through properly tbh.

hes already said hed love to return to England didnt necessarly say what team

DB10

flahavaj wrote: »

I'n not putting Arsenal down. If anything I'm showing more respect to the great manager that has transformed your club than you yourself are.

"You're not a supporter so you don't understand" is a rather weak and insidious argument that is very easy to throw out when a debate takes a turn you don't like.

Yes he has transformed the club. Nobody denies that. I haven't disrespected Wenger thus far even though many would agree he deserves heavy criticism.

#15

DB10 wrote: »

I find it highly ironic neither you or Flahav support Arsenal.

As fans of other sides, I think your opinion isn't as relevant and you are also putting down our club.

We are the 3rd biggest club, City have a load of cash that's all. We have a great Academy, lots of money, big support and a new stadium.

gibson wrote: »

City!! City!!! haha no way are City a bigger club than Arsenal to a manager a fan or my nan!

You're both missing the point. Of course Arsenal are a bigger/better club than City.

But honestly, City are possibly a bigger attraction for managers right now. For obvious reasons. Literally, a blank cheque and carte blanche to create a team, with the only condition being success.

gibson

DB10 wrote: »

That is a good and bad thing wouldn't you say..

Well that would be a very bad situation for the club to be in but one that I'm fairly sure isn't correct.

Wenger would most likely go abroad, he would never ravage our squad and few of the players would leave if we are competitive.

Sure our best players leave every summer anyway....

It'd be the same with any manager leaving a club players follow the manager thats what sometimes happens. I think this whole debate is still looking at what hes done in the past I was wondering what peoples views were for the future

#15

DB10 wrote: »

I find it highly ironic neither you or Flahav support Arsenal.

As fans of other sides, I think your opinion isn't as relevant and you are also putting down our club.

We are the 3rd biggest club, City have a load of cash that's all. We have a great Academy, lots of money, big support and a new stadium.

Listen, save the high-horsery for someone else, it's entirely possible to have relevant opinions on lots of clubs, regardless of whether you support them or not.

City have a load of cash that's all.

That's all? What do you mean that's all? That in itself is a huge draw for managers.

gibson

#15 wrote: »

You're both missing the point. Of course Arsenal are a bigger/better club than City.

But honestly, City are possibly a bigger attraction for managers right now. For obvious reasons. Literally, a blank cheque and carte blanche to create a team, with the only condition being success.

I think if Wenger didnt stay on past this season the Arsenal job would be a huge pull for a lot of managers and I think more than City

flahavaj

gibson wrote: »

I think if Wenger didnt stay on past this season the Arsenal job would be a huge pull for a lot of managers and I think more than City

Put it this way - if Mourinho was a free agent tomorrow and he had a choice between both clubs, he'd take the City job over the Arsenal job IMO.

#15

DB10 wrote: »

Wenger would most likely go abroad, he would never ravage our squad and few of the players would leave if we are competitive.

What if Arsenal sack him next year, and Ferguson announces his retirement - you don't think Wenger would strongly consider the Utd job if offered to him?

Quazzie

No. He wouldn't. and of that I'm 100% confident

OPENROAD

flahavaj wrote: »

Put it this way - if Mourinho was a free agent tomorrow and he had a choice between both clubs, he'd take the City job over the Arsenal job IMO.

+1

Easier option

gibson

flahavaj wrote: »

Put it this way - if Mourinho was a free agent tomorrow and he had a choice between both clubs, he'd take the City job over the Arsenal job IMO.

maybe who knows I just think he'd go for a more higher profile club City with their new owners dont seem to give their manager much backing. Hughes wouldve had to win the league to save his job he was a goner by the time they took over.

#15

Quazzie wrote: »

No. He wouldn't. and of that I'm 100% confident

Why do you think that?

gibson

#15 wrote: »

Why do you think that?

hes too loyal to go to a bitter rival

#15

gibson wrote: »

hes too loyal to go to a bitter rival

Even if he got the sack? Loyalty would hardly be at play?