Arsenal FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 10/11

Galvasean

a 4-4-2 with melo and Cesc in the middle would pretty much mean Song would be out of the starting XI. Can't be having that.

x PyRo

Song should be pushed back to play alongside Vermie. He's going to end up there eventually so why not do it this season and get some experience under his belt. He'll get used to it in no time, He's a class act.

gibson

The only way I could see Melo signing is if we play something like the Germans played 4-2-3-1, a 4-4-2 wouldnt work and the 4-3-3 mightnt work either with Melo and Song

I would hate to see Song start as a centre back along side Verm, Song was awesome for a lot of last season but was awesome as a defensive mid not a centre back why take him out of his proper position?

leninbenjamin

Frisbee wrote: »

The system we played last year was essentially a 4-1-2-2-1, with Mello we'd have to adopt closer to a 4-2-1-2-1, unless we switched to a 4-4-2 in which case I think he'd be a d ecent partner to Cesc in the middle.

Not necessarily. Melo can still push high up the pitch when on the ball. The difference being he wont look to break behind the defensive lines in the same manner as Cesc or Nasri. When Denilson plays that role he does similar, he'll push high up to the edge of the box to pin the opposition defenders back, but he'll rarely go inside, instead putting himself in space to offer a safer option for Cesc.

On the other hand, when Diaby or Nasri get the ball, they will generally look to dribble and run at defenders. And when Cesc doesn't have the ball he will generally look to get into a position where he can receive the ball close to the defensive lines. The result is that there is a big gap between the sitting players (Song and the CBs) and the rest of the team that allows for the opposition lots of space to counter into.

Basically the player you want to play along side Cesc should be someone who moves more from side to side to link up play, as supposed to someone who runs ahead to get in between the opposition defensive lines, it doesn't necessarily mean reverting to a 4-2-3-1 like the Dutch or Spain.

gibson

leninbenjamin wrote: »

When Denilson plays that role he does similar, he'll push high up to the edge of the box to pin the opposition defenders back, but he'll rarely go inside, instead putting himself in space to offer a safer option for Cesc.

This is where Denilson usually gets caught defensively, he loses the ball then either cant track back quick enough or sometimes it looks like he isnt arsed. Ive seen him watch players glide pass him while he slowly walks back :mad:

Hows Melo's pace? Cant say I remember from the World Cup. A perfect player to play along Cesc and Song might be a box to box midfielder, add to the attack and still be able to get back and help out defence. Not sure theres many about though! :rolleyes:

Frisbee

gibson wrote: »

A perfect player to play along Cesc and Song might be a box to box midfielder, add to the attack and still be able to get back and help out defence. Not sure theres many about though! :rolleyes:

A cheeky bid for the Flamster perhaps? :cool:

leninbenjamin

gibson wrote: »

This is where Denilson usually gets caught defensively, he loses the ball then either cant track back quick enough or sometimes it looks like he isnt arsed. Ive seen him watch players glide pass him while he slowly walks back :mad:

Denilson actually rarely loses the ball, he has one of the highest pass completion ratios of anyone at the club. Cesc's ratio is about 77/78%. Denilson's for last season was 86%, URL="http://footballstats.telegraph.co.uk/PlayerStatInd.aspx?PlayerID=5033&league=79&type=career#stats"]link[/URL. I think he comes in for for a lot unfair stick considering his lack of experience (2008/2009 was his first proper season as a regular). And, people are forgetting he was playing through injury for a lot of his season. He started the season very well after all, I think he can be an important player for us.

But you're right, he needs to add a lot more to the defensive side of his game, and that's why Melo would be a nice addition to the squad. Melo overall would be a similarish player to Denilson in my book, very good technically and has a nice range of passing on him, but is stronger, quicker and seems to relish the physical battle. Going forward he offers a bit more than his showings for Brazil allowed.

gibson wrote: »

Hows Melo's pace? Cant say I remember from the World Cup. A perfect player to play along Cesc and Song might be a box to box midfielder, add to the attack and still be able to get back and help out defence. Not sure theres many about though! :rolleyes:

He wouldn't be the quickest, but he certainly has the legs to track back and get those last gasp tackles in. He doesn't lack for ability, (which is why Juve paid so much for him) but question marks surround his mentality though.

gibson

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Denilson actually rarely loses the ball, he has one of the highest pass completion ratios of anyone at the club. Cesc's ratio is about 77/78%. Denilson's for last season was 86%, URL="http://footballstats.telegraph.co.uk/PlayerStatInd.aspx?PlayerID=5033&league=79&type=career#stats"]link[/URL. I think he comes in for for a lot unfair stick considering his lack of experience (2008/2009 was his first proper season as a regular). And, people are forgetting he was playing through injury for a lot of his season. He started the season very well after all, I think he can be an important player for us.

I dunno I think Arsenal fans are split when it comes to Denilson, Diaby as well! I just find them both far too laxidasical when in possession (diaby thinking he can beat every player on the pitch lol).

I dont question the stats on Denilson but the reason he has such a high percentage pass rate in my opinion is because he generally passes back or side ways. yes he tries some through balls or a bit more adventure but usually he plays a very short pass that cant miss his man, so his pass rate is going to be high.

DB10

Exactly, Denilson isn't good enough no matter how many pointless stats point in his favour. Side ways passing, he rarely even attempts a difficult pass.

And how anyone can imply he is better or even near as good at passing as Fabregas, is just mind boggling....

OPENROAD

Arshavin on James Corden's World Cup Live on ITV 1 now.

Galvasean

Tasci looked very impressive. All 45 seconds of him. :P

Frisbee

OPENROAD wrote: »

Arshavin on James Corden's World Cup Live on ITV 1 now.

He hasn't the foggiest what's going on....

OPENROAD

Frisbee wrote: »

He hasn't the foggiest what's going on....

lol, only has Bendtners phone number

keano_afc

Frisbee wrote: »

He hasn't the foggiest what's going on....

True, he's a fat twat as well. This is Corden we're talking about yeah?

yahoo_moe

DB10 wrote: »

Exactly, Denilson isn't good enough no matter how many pointless stats point in his favour. Side ways passing, he rarely even attempts a difficult pass.

Do you still think Denilson's passing is "sloppy" though? Last time this was brought up you just opted out of the argument iirc.

And I'd guess the comparison with Cesc's stats was just to show how impressive Denilson's numbers are. Obviously Cesc's numbers will suffer a bit from being the guy playing most of our killer balls, but that's also exactly why Denilson doesn't need to be playing those passes all the time. It's noticeable how he played a very different role at the start of last year when Cesc was injured and Ramsey wasn't getting much of a chance.

L'prof

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Do you still think Denilson's passing is "sloppy" though? Last time this was brought up you just opted out of the argument iirc.

And I'd guess the comparison with Cesc's stats was just to show how impressive Denilson's numbers are. Obviously Cesc's numbers will suffer a bit from being the guy playing most of our killer balls, but that's also exactly why Denilson doesn't need to be playing those passes all the time. It's noticeable how he played a very different role at the start of last year when Cesc was injured and Ramsey wasn't getting much of a chance.

His passing isn't sloppy, but he takes more time on the ball than I'd like and tends to slow things down a bit more than I'd like. Overall, at the moment, I don't think he does enough to warrant his place in the first 11 and I wouldn't be too pushed if we brought in a direct replacement. Roll on a Song like transformation from him next season...I can't wait!

Pepe LeFrits

I'd take Melo. He wouldn't be top of my list but he's similar to Denilson only more powerful and given that Denilson is basically a starter in our first eleven he'd improve the team. I'd rather not lose Gael but he's hardly flawless defensively and offensively I'd probably rate both Gibbs and Traore above him so maybe Arsene reckons one is ready to step up.

Frisbee

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I'd rather not lose Gael but he's hardly flawless defensively and offensively I'd probably rate both Gibbs and Traore above him so maybe Arsene reckons one is ready to step up.

You'd rate Traore above Clichy? :eek:

I mean I like Traore, but the few games he got last season he was at absolute sixes and sevens at the back.

Pepe LeFrits

Offensively.

Frisbee

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Offensively.

Ah I see now I misread your post.

Read it as defensively and offensively rather than just offensively.

I'd agree with you in that case.

Galvasean

Hmmmm, could Traore be this elusive left footed winger we've been crying out for?

L'prof

Galvasean wrote: »

Hmmmm, could Traore be this elusive left footed winger we've been crying out for?

I doubt it, but I also doubt we're going to buy one!

Galvasean

Check this out:

Alright, who wants it for their sig?

L'prof

Galvasean wrote: »

Alright, who wants it for their sig?

I like mine the way it is

gibson

Apparently Athletico want Almunia :D:D

I'd be so happy if we got rid of him, might be a good back up but I couldnt care less if I never see him play in Arsenal shirt again

http://www.people.co.uk/sport/football/ ... -22403502/

ATLETICO MADRID will offer Manuel Almunia an escape route from Arsenal.

The Spanish goalkeeper will be replaced as the Gunners No.1 when Fulham's Mark Schwarzer arrives at the Emirates, in a 2million pounds deal expected to be completed this week.

And Almunia, 33, will jump at a return to Spain because he is not willing to sit on the bench next season.

Atletico, in serious financial trouble, believe they can nab him for a cut-price fee.

The Madrid club expect to cash in on their highly-rated Spain Under-21 keeper David de Gea – wanted by Manchester United among other leading European sides.

Almunia joined Arsenal six years ago, replacing Jens Lehmann as first-choice two years ago. But boss Arsène Wenger has lost patience with the Spaniard after a string of high-profile blunders and could also offload his No.2 keeper Lukasz Fabianski.

DB10

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I'd take Melo. He wouldn't be top of my list but he's similar to Denilson only more powerful and given that Denilson is basically a starter in our first eleven he'd improve the team. I'd rather not lose Gael but he's hardly flawless defensively and offensively I'd probably rate both Gibbs and Traore above him so maybe Arsene reckons one is ready to step up.

Fully agreed. For me, Melo is the same type as Denilson yet so much more. Melo has all the power,speed and aggression for the English game. He is also better than Denilson in every aspect, and that is the reason he makes the Brazil XI and Denilson can't make the squad.

gibson

I would love to see someone like Khedira instead of Melo he looked very impressive

leninbenjamin

Wenger rules out a move for Gourcuff, and suggests there wont be any moves for a midfielder this window.

"We are not interested [in Gourcuff] and we were never contacted,"

"He's a player I like a lot, but we are sufficiently covered in midfield."

yahoo_moe

Galvasean wrote: »

Check this out:

Alright, who wants it for their sig?

One player short of the classic though

gibson

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Wenger rules out a move for Gourcuff, and suggests there wont be any moves for a midfielder this window.

Quotes like this is why I get annoyed with Wenger, covered in midfield?? So weve adequate cover if Song does his cruciate ligaments for example :mad:

I hope hes playing coy and trying to hide any possible transfers cause if we go into another season with no proper cover for Song, no Denilson and Diaby do not count, it could be our biggest downfall

L'prof

gibson wrote: »

Quotes like this is why I get annoyed with Wenger, covered in midfield?? So weve adequate cover if Song does his cruciate ligaments for example :mad:

I hope hes playing coy and trying to hide any possible transfers cause if we go into another season with no proper cover for Song, no Denilson and Diaby do not count, it could be our biggest downfall

He's not!

blah blah blah, we have money to spend.
blah blah blah, we are looking to sign players
blah blah blah, we have adequate cover for all positions

Galvasean

gibson wrote: »

Quotes like this is why I get annoyed with Wenger, covered in midfield?? So weve adequate cover if Song does his cruciate ligaments for example :mad:

I hope hes playing coy and trying to hide any possible transfers cause if we go into another season with no proper cover for Song, no Denilson and Diaby do not count, it could be our biggest downfall

*grumble grumble* "Eastmanmond will be a quality player some day" *grumble grumble*

cson

I've noticed a lot of people ripping the piss out of Wenger about transfers [or lack of] on the thread; at the same time I'd imagine that few if any of you want him to go. I know myself I don't want him to go but it is hugely frustrating to see a team that with a bit of investment in key area's [i.e. not relying on Djourou being like a new signing or Eastmond progressing] could be properly challenging on all fronts.

L'prof

cson wrote: »

I've noticed a lot of people ripping the piss out of Wenger about transfers [or lack of] on the thread; at the same time I'd imagine that few if any of you want him to go. I know myself I don't want him to go but it is hugely frustrating to see a team that with a bit of investment in key area's [i.e. not relying on Djourou being like a new signing or Eastmond progressing] could be properly challenging on all fronts.

It's extremely frustrating, but Wenger is the best man for the job and I hope to see him stay with the club for some time to come. My main gripe is that the squad just isn't strong enough in terms of strength in depth and hasn't been for quite some time. Ideally, I'd like to see 3 more players coming in than going out, but that won't happen. I can see one or maybe two more players coming in at the most and I guess that will just have to do.

cson

See that's the thing; we're a Melo instead of Denilson away from pushing on and actually winning something - and that goes right across the squad for the most part.

L'prof

cson wrote: »

See that's the thing; we're a Melo instead of Denilson away from pushing on and actually winning something - and that goes right across the squad for the most part.

This is our squad at the moment, anyone else out of contract?

1 GK Manuel Almunia
2 MF Abou Diaby
3 DF Bacary Sagna
4 MF Cesc Fàbregas
5 DF Thomas Vermaelen
6 DF Laurent Koscielny
7 MF Tomáš Rosický
8 MF Samir Nasri
9 FW Eduardo
11 FW Robin van Persie
12 FW Carlos Vela
14 FW Theo Walcott
15 MF Denílson
16 MF Aaron Ramsey
17 MF Alex Song
19 MF Jack Wilshere
20 DF Johan Djourou
21 GK Łukasz Fabiański
22 DF Gaël Clichy
23 MF Andrei Arshavin
24 GK Vito Mannone
27 MF Emmanuel Eboué
28 DF Kieran Gibbs
29 FW Marouane Chamakh
30 DF Armand Traoré
52 FW Nicklas Bendtner
53 GK Wojciech Szczęsny

I don't have time to start playing around and picking our best team and second team is, maybe someone else will do that for me? The only thing I do no is that, at present that squad (taking our annual injuries into account) isn't strong enough to mount a strong challenge for the league or champions league. Maybe I'm underestimating how much the younger players will come on over the season though?

DB10

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Wenger rules out a move for Gourcuff, and suggests there wont be any moves for a midfielder this window.

Link?

No midfielder = no trophies once again.

I'm astounded how Wenger can waste another season pandering to the development of Denilson and Diaby.

I hope he means we are covered in attacking midfield positions and no DM, which could be true.

yahoo_moe

Just back from the WC final thread. I'm glad they only happen once every 4 years really. I may never leave this thread again though!

OPENROAD

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Just back from the WC final thread. I'm glad they only happen once every 4 years really. I may never leave this thread again though!

Thank God proper football is nearly back

leninbenjamin

Eduardo to be loaned? URL="http://arsenalanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/07/boro-primorac-speaks-on-eduardos-future.html"]link[/URL

Royale with Cheese

Gotta say I hate the way Spain play and the kind of holier than thou attitude that comes from playing like that. Seems I'd probably hate Arsenal if I didn't support them.

OPENROAD

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Gotta say I hate the way Spain play and the kind of holier than thou attitude that comes from playing like that. Seems I'd probably hate Arsenal if I didn't support them.

The thing that really bugged me tonight was the hypocritical analysis, and how Spain were kicked off the pitch, yet when it is Arsenal. its they have a soft centre, they don't like it up them and its the only way you can play against them.:(


I wasn't supporting Spain because of the Barcelona connection.

Royale with Cheese

I wasn't supporting Spain because of that, plus the fact they've bored the tits off me. Their problem is that they're actually good enough to implement the passy pass pass tactic. Their games have few clear chances, few goals and are generally boring.

At least Arsenal have the decency to have a shíte defence and a traffic cone in goals, just to make things interesting.

L'prof

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Gotta say I hate the way Spain play and the kind of holier than thou attitude that comes from playing like that. Seems I'd probably hate Arsenal if I didn't support them.

I loved Spain in the Euros (12 goals in 6 games), but they bored me at times in the world cup (8 goals in 7 games) and incisiveness is all it boiled down to really!

gibson

cson wrote: »

I've noticed a lot of people ripping the piss out of Wenger about transfers [or lack of] on the thread; at the same time I'd imagine that few if any of you want him to go. I know myself I don't want him to go but it is hugely frustrating to see a team that with a bit of investment in key area's [i.e. not relying on Djourou being like a new signing or Eastmond progressing] could be properly challenging on all fronts.

I wouldnt quite say ripping the piss but I know what you're saying. We are a few players short of being a quality team but im not sure if its ever going to happen because of our young/cheap player policy.

I wouldnt agree with the statement saying few want him to go though. Reading on other threads theres quite a split on fans who want Wenger to stay and fans that are giving Wenger 1 more season.

What sometimes annoys me is that Wenger seems untouchable at times with our fans, which I think is wrong. If the man makes mistakes and isnt going to deliver a trophy again his position then should at least be considered and not a case of "oh look what hes done for the club"...you cant live on past glories

Saying all that as you said yourself I wouldnt like to see him go because I would love to see him turn it around

leninbenjamin

Wanted Holland to win myself, but delighted to see Cesc setting up the winner, I think he's shown he's just as good as Iniesta or Xavi in his sporadic appearances for Spain.

Royale with Cheese

gibson wrote: »

If the man makes mistakes and isnt going to deliver a trophy again his position then should at least be considered and not a case of "oh look what hes done for the club"...you cant live on past glories

I don't think the pro Wenger camp (myself included) are arguing that he should stay because he was a very successful manager 6 to 12 years ago. He should stay because whoever replaces him would be highly unlikely to match the job he is doing now, nevermind better it.

Royale with Cheese

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Wanted Holland to win myself, but delighted to see Cesc setting up the winner, I think he's shown he's just as good as Iniesta or Xavi in his sporadic appearances for Spain.

I was hoping he'd missed the decisive penalty in a shootout and become a hate figure in Spain tbh. Just on the chance that would delay his move to Barca by a few years.

Redzer7

Almunia

Clichy Vermaelen Koscielny? Sagna

Song Denilson

Fabregas

Nasri Arshavin

Van Persie

That would be my starting 11, not very strong starting 11 tbh.
Second string would be

Fabianski

Gibbs Djourou ??????? Eboue

Rosicknote Ramsey Diaby Walcott

Chamakh Bendtner

Not too strong either, maybe Gibbs pushing for a first team place and maybe Chamakh if Arsenal were to revert to 4-4-2.
Anyone got any suggestions to it?

gibson

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

I don't think the pro Wenger camp (myself included) are arguing that he should stay because he was a very successful manager 6 to 12 years ago. He should stay because whoever replaces him would be highly unlikely to match the job he is doing now, nevermind better it.

Better what? A trophyless 5 seasons? Im sure plenty of other managers could gaurantee us Champions League football every year. And Im sure theres other managers that could do it without breaking the bank like Wenger