Arsenal FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 10/11

leninbenjamin

gibson wrote: »

Better what? A trophyless 5 seasons? Im sure plenty of other managers could gaurantee us Champions League football every year. And Im sure theres other managers that could do it without breaking the bank like Wenger

If that were the case then why hasn't it been done already?

Royale with Cheese

gibson wrote: »

Better what?

You're aware there are places in the premier league below 3rd and 4th? Arsenal don't have the finances to compete with Chelsea and up until very recently Man United. Add City into that mix, even Spurs have more cash than Arsenal.

There may be money to spend, but nothing in comparison to what some other Premier League clubs can spend. Things can get a lot lot worse for Arsenal than they are right now. Look at Liverpool. They've slipped out of the top 4 and given the emergence of City and Spurs improving, they're going to have a very tough job to get back in. Arsenal really couldn't afford to not be in the Champions League. The 20 year plan or whatever it was that the board made was done on the assumption Arsenal would have Champions League football every season.

Anyway, my point is Wenger is still one of the world's best managers and would pretty much walk into any job he wants. Do you think his replacement would be from that stock of manager?

gibson

leninbenjamin wrote: »

If that were the case then why hasn't it been done already?

Cause Wenger has a job for life with the current board and maybe in the past it wouldve been harsh to give him the shove. This current will never sack Wenger as long as we finish at least 4th.....but...we it doesnt seem to matter if we win a trophy or not

all im saying is his job shouldnt be untouchable

OPENROAD

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

You're aware there are places in the premier league below 3rd and 4th? Arsenal don't have the finances to compete with Chelsea and up until very recently Man United. Add City into that mix, even Spurs have more cash than Arsenal.

There may be money to spend, but nothing in comparison to what some other Premier League clubs can spend. Things can get a lot lot worse for Arsenal than they are right now. Look at Liverpool. They've slipped out of the top 4 and given the emergence of City and Spurs improving, they're going to have a very tough job to get back in. Arsenal really couldn't afford to not be in the Champions League. The 20 year plan or whatever it was that the board made was done on the assumption Arsenal would have Champions League football every season.

Anyway, my point is Wenger is still one of the world's best managers and would pretty much walk into any job he wants. Do you think his replacement would be from that stock of manager?

Not the case, certainly officially anyway.

Royale with Cheese

gibson wrote: »

all im saying is his job shouldnt be untouchable

No it definitely shouldn't, but I don't see what Wenger's done to be under such pressure. Before Wenger came in Arsenal had only won 2 league titles in over 25 years. They don't have a divine right to be winning trophies.

If he persists with Almunia next season though I'll admit I'd be starting to have doubts about his sanity.

gibson

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

You're aware there are places in the premier league below 3rd and 4th? Arsenal don't have the finances to compete with Chelsea and up until very recently Man United. Add City into that mix, even Spurs have more cash than Arsenal.

There may be money to spend, but nothing in comparison to what some other Premier League clubs can spend. Things can get a lot lot worse for Arsenal than they are right now. Look at Liverpool. They've slipped out of the top 4 and given the emergence of City and Spurs improving, they're going to have a very tough job to get back in. Arsenal really couldn't afford to not be in the Champions League. The 20 year plan or whatever it was that the board made was done on the assumption Arsenal would have Champions League football every season.

Anyway, my point is Wenger is still one of the world's best managers and would pretty much walk into any job he wants. Do you think his replacement would be from that stock of manager?

Well I did say in my last comment that I thought there would be other managers that could get Champions League football on the same budget Wenger had. I think its slightly naive to think Wenger is the only manager that could do it in the entire world of football managers

leninbenjamin

gibson wrote: »

Cause Wenger has a job for life with the current board and maybe in the past it wouldve been harsh to give him the shove. This current will never sack Wenger as long as we finish at least 4th.....but...we it doesnt seem to matter if we win a trophy or not

all im saying is his job shouldnt be untouchable

No, I mean why hasn't any other club been able to do it if it's that ****ing easy?

Liverpool crashed out when the money dried up, Everton broke it up but weren't able to sustain it, Villa, City, Tottenham have consistently fallen short despite spending ridiculous sums. Even abroad you had relatively frugal spenders break into the CL plenty of times (Villareal, Sevilla, Valencia come to mind) but unable to sustain it over a prolonged period... What Wenger has done with this current Arsenal side has not been repeated anywhere else at the highest level.

gibson

leninbenjamin wrote: »

No, I mean why hasn't any other club been able to do it if it's that ****ing easy?

Liverpool crashed out when the money dried up, Everton broke it up but weren't able to sustain it, Villa, City, Tottenham have consistently fallen short despite spending ridiculous sums. Even abroad you had relatively frugal spenders break into the CL plenty of times (Villareal, Sevilla, Valencia come to mind) but unable to sustain it over a prolonged period... What Wenger has done with this current Arsenal side has not been repeated anywhere else at the highest level.

but do you feel with this current team we can acheive anything again?

Im not anti Wenger in the slightest hes done a huge job for us but some fans are definitley blinkered. Everything you've said has been on what hes done in the past but what about last season? What if the 2 signings we have now are our only signings and we again have a poor season? Im just wondering with some fans how far we have to go before they even decide to question Wenger

I mean even to his latest comment - "weve sufficient cover in midfield", weve cover but we dont have good enough cover.

Royale with Cheese

gibson wrote: »

I think its slightly naive to think Wenger is the only manager that could do it in the entire world of football managers

What would be naive would be to sack one of the world's best managers (the best manager at running a club on a budget, exactly what Arsenal want), in the hope that his replacement can win a few trophies.

Not to harp on about money (football really shouldn't be all about finances, but unfortunately it is) but Wenger's record in the transfer market since he arrived is well documented.

I don't think he's untouchable, but he's a long way from being under serious pressure. I seriously doubt the board and Wenger are content with being 3rd/4th every season but I'm sure they realise it could be worse than that.

gibson

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

What would be naive would be to sack one of the world's best managers (the best manager at running a club on a budget, exactly what Arsenal want), in the hope that his replacement can win a few trophies.

Not to harp on about money (football really shouldn't be all about finances, but unfortunately it is) but Wenger's record in the transfer market since he arrived is well documented.

I don't think he's untouchable, but he's a long way from being under serious pressure. I seriously doubt the board and Wenger are content with being 3rd/4th every season but I'm sure they realise it could be worse than that.

Well theres no real indication the board are anything but content, I suppose we'll find out end of next season when his contract is up but I fully expect he'll be offered a new one.

Maybe some of my comments were a little harsh on Wenger but I have also given him the praise he deserves for his past glories. I dont think fans will be happy for too much longer though if we win no trophies.

Can you honestly say you'd be 100% happy if for the next 5 years we win nothing which would bring it to 10 years, can you honestly say you'd still want Wenger as manager? A lot of managers rightly or wrongly wouldnt get 5 trophyless seasons at a top club

yahoo_moe

gibson wrote: »

Im sure plenty of other managers could gaurantee us Champions League football every year. And Im sure theres other managers that could do it without breaking the bank like Wenger

Even if there are "plenty" of other managers that could match his recent achievements (which are good for the club more so than the immediate squad of players necessarily), do you really think anyone could better his recent record?

No point sacking him just to (at best) maintain the same position - it's a needless risk and it'd be hugely unfair (in my opinion, of course) on Wenger and what he's doing for the club (note: not what he's done in the past).

yahoo_moe

gibson wrote: »

A lot of managers rightly or wrongly wouldnt get 5 trophyless seasons at a top club

Well if you think that might be "wrongly" then shouldn't you be glad your club does things "rightly", i.e. realistically?

There are only 4 trophies available each year, after all (one of those only because Wenger keeps qualifying us for it btw), so a lot of teams are failures if that's all you measure by.

Royale with Cheese

gibson wrote: »

Well theres no real indication the board are anything but content, I suppose we'll find out end of next season when his contract is up but I fully expect he'll be offered a new one.

He will definitely be offered a new contract. I'd have my doubts as to whether he'll sign it though. This will probably be his last contract. I guess he could maybe sign a 1 year extension up until 2012 and then maybe go off and manage France for the 2014 world cup and then call it a day.

The board will probably be more content with the status quo than Wenger alright. They probably knew there'd be a lean spell while the stadium loan was being paid off. The fact the money is still rolling in probably cushions that a fair bit.

gibson

yahoo_moe wrote: »

No point sacking him just to (at best) maintain the same position - it's a needless risk and it'd be hugely unfair (in my opinion, of course) on Wenger and what he's doing for the club (note: not what he's done in the past).

I think people may have read some of comments slightly wrong Ive never said I think Wenger should be sacked, in fact I dont want him to be sacked. All I was saying was I dont get what seems like blind faith at times with Wenger and it seems no matter what he does he cant do wrong.

Im not trying to pick any fights with anyone by the way! We all love the same team at the end of the day

leninbenjamin

I'd like to remind you that last season this team of nothing players got 75 points in the league despite long injury layoffs to key players and got to the quarters of the Champions League only to be dumped out by a stunning individual performance by the world's best player (which he hasn't since repeated btw). So yes, a little bit of a luck on the injury front, a few less individual defensive errors and a bit more composure in the big games, this squad isn't far off it at all...

Overall transfer activity has been positive. Gallas has been replaced by one of the best defenders in league 1 from last season and we're still in for another CB (Tasci, Mertesacker, Cahill, Hailliche to name a few). Everyone knows a bid has been made for Schwarzer, who, while not a world beater, would probably bag us a few more points than Alumnia. We've already signed Chamakh, who at the very least will gives us more of an aerial presence in the box. And we're still continually being linked with a host of other high profile creative attacking players (Joe Cole, Oezil, Turan, Gourcuff etc.) which leads me to believe there is genuine interest there. So yeah, I don't get your pessimism at all.

Anyway lads, now the world cup is over I'm going to take a bit of a holiday from posting for a bit. Enjoy the last few weeks of Summer. And B(+) for fup sake! :P

gibson

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Overall transfer activity has been positive. Gallas has been replaced by one of the best defenders in league 1 from last season

true with everything but Cygan was voted defender of French league before we signed him, doesnt seem to mean much! We'll have to wait and see Kos play first

IF we hadve won the league last season though it would have been from Chelsea and Utd throwing it away which they almost did but then we slipped up again. We really need to step up next season especially depending on who Chelsea and utd might add, not to mention City and Spurs

Galvasean

Galvasean wrote: »

Check this out:

Alright, who wants it for their sig?

sig2big

Redzer7

Yeah the seasons will get harder and harder from this point on.
We really need to make a few additions this season though if we are to have any chance of winning a trophy.

Redzer7

Galvasean wrote: »

Check this out:

Alright, who wants it for their sig?

I want it :P

OPENROAD

Well lads, thats the world cup over,strap in tight ,expect transfer activity to increase and a huge increase in Cesc stories Let the fun begin

Royale with Cheese

Watched the highlights on ITV. Afterwards they interviewed Cesc and threw in a cheeky question about his future at the end of the interview.

I am most likely reading into nothing but his answer did not fill me with joy. He just laughed and said he was going to celebrate tonight and take a rest for a few days and then he would be able to talk about it. The way he answered it kind of gave me the impression he already knows where he's going to be playing next season.

Redzer7

Well whatever happens with Cesc, I wish him luck and hopefully if he leaves he's replaced by someone with real quality.
No1 would replace Cesc though, at least not until Ramsey gets back playing again :P.

gosplan

Meh, I really thought he was going for a while but I'm not so sure now.

Sandro Rossell is pursuing the matter but I wouldn't be surprised if that's just politics, i.e. because Laporta began the Cesc thing, Rossell can't be seen to drop it.

At this stage, and particularly given the way the world cup has gone, it's kind of clear that Cesc won't really fit the Barca setup at the moment, or at least that bringing him into the first team squad will force out someone like Pedro or Busquets who has just as much 'Barca DNA'tm as Fabregas.

Basically, anyone with a clue about football will basically tell you that Barca don't 'need' Fabregas right now. And given the reports about their finances, do they really want to blow the best part of 50 million on a luxury? I'd imagine not.

They just need to be seen doing this for the moment or the club members would be unhappy.

gibson

First pre season friendly on Saturday against Barnet anyone know if theres anywhere to watch the match? Be nice to see the new signings and the likes of Wilshere. Cant wait to see him play more this season the lads got some talent

cson

gibson wrote: »

First pre season friendly on Saturday against Barnet anyone know if theres anywhere to watch the match? Be nice to see the new signings and the likes of Wilshere. Cant wait to see him play more this season the lads got some talent

It's gonna be great to see Djourou in action again. :pac:

gibson

cson wrote: »

It's gonna be great to see Djourou in action again. :pac:

Wenger will probably consider him a new signing alright!

Be interesting to see how Koscielny does

gandalf

On BBC Sport Soccer Gossip (from the Mirror originally)

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger rejected the chance to meet with Barcelona in South Africa to discuss the potential transfer of Gunners midfielder Cesc Fabregas.

So nothing new there. TBH I think at this stage that Cesc will be staying at the Emirates for another season.

gosplan

gandalf wrote: »

TBH I think at this stage that Cesc will be staying at the Emirates for another season.

Aye, amidst all of Barca's babble, Arsenal have said two things.

1: He's not for sale, please respect our wishes and stop talking about it.

2: No, we will not be accepting your very public offer to meet and discuss the transfer of Cesc. What did we say earlier.

It comes down to what I said earlier. Barca are annoying when it comes to transfers but not downright stupid. They know that Arsenal don't really need the cash but do really need the player, and that continuing to discuss the Cesc move so openly is just cementing the clubs position.

Now Rossell can very publicly say 'well we tried to sign him but Arsenal wouldn't play ball'. In reality, all they've done is submit one insulting bid of 30 million and talk about it a lot to the press. What they've achieved is to link the player firmly to Barca so when he does move, it'll be there.

Hopefully, after another year or two of Fabregas awesomeness, Arsenal will be able to accept an offer of 30/40 million from another club for Cesc and force Barca into paying the same.

P.S. Villa scored zero goals when playing up front alone for Spain in this world cup. As poor as Torres was, this implies that he needs a strike partner to perform. If Barca purchase Cesc and this does turn out to be the case they'll have to pick four from Keita, Busquets, Cesc, Xavi, Pedro, Messi, Iniesta.

Ush1

gosplan wrote: »

P.S. Villa scored zero goals when playing up front alone for Spain in this world cup. As poor as Torres was, this implies that he needs a strike partner to perform. If Barca purchase Cesc and this does turn out to be the case they'll have to pick four from Keita, Busquets, Cesc, Xavi, Pedro, Messi, Iniesta.

You musn't watch Valencia much.

gosplan

Ush1 wrote: »

You musn't watch Valencia much.

Yeah but he was playing with the Barca midfield this time. Ibra couldn't work with them as a lone striker, who's to say Villa can? I also made sure to include some 'if's' in my statment because I'd imagine they'd do rather well.

I'm not arguing the quality of Villa.

cson

I'll tell you what grates with me the most about the whole sorry affair; the way the public and overt courting of the player has gone on without the authorities throwing so much as a glance at it. Does the holier than thou attitude that shrouds Barcelona completely disguise their predatory nature?

We're a feeder club for Barcelona at this stage and I'm delighted to see the club digging their heels in over this. I know the above may be considered hypocrisy by some given our own track record with youngsters but we are and never will lower ourselves to the type of ****e Barcelona get up to - witness how we dealt with the Chamakh transfer.

gosplan

cson wrote: »

I'll tell you what grates with me the most about the whole sorry affair; the way the public and overt courting of the player has gone on without the authorities throwing so much as a glance at it. Does the holier than thou attitude that shrouds Barcelona completely disguise their predatory nature?

We're a feeder club for Barcelona at this stage and I'm delighted to see the club digging their heels in over this. I know the above may be considered hypocrisy by some given our own track record with youngsters but we are and never will lower ourselves to the type of ****e Barcelona get up to - witness how we dealt with the Chamakh transfer.

Yeah, nearly as annoying as the widespread condemnation of the Dutch's anti-football tactics. Can we have a bit of that next season please?

BTW, I think RVP's lost the moral authority to give out about the Stoke's of this world.

gibson

gosplan wrote: »

BTW, I think RVP's lost the moral authority to give out about the Stoke's of this world.

I didnt see RVP doing any fouling, just case the rest of the team might be doesnt mean he has to be condemned as well. He actually sportingly kicked the ball back to Casillas when he had a corner. I dont think RVP and the likes of Van Bommel can be compared

gandalf

gibson wrote: »

I didnt see RVP doing any fouling, just case the rest of the team might be doesnt mean he has to be condemned as well. He actually sportingly kicked the ball back to Casillas when he had a corner. I dont think RVP and the likes of Van Bommel can be compared

Yes I was extremely impressed by Van Persie passing the ball to Casillas from that corner. Technically the Dutch had given the Spanish the ball back it was lack of concentration by Casillas that led to them conceding a corner from it.

Van Persie didn't get any real service at all in that game and ran his heart out. He certainly was not involved in the ugly attempts of tackling that Van Bommel and De Jong were perpetrating during the game.

gosplan

gibson wrote: »

I didnt see RVP doing any fouling

You must have tuned in after he got the yellow card, which incidentally wasn't for his first foul.

Listen, I don't want everyone here rushing to his defence, I'm not saying he's a dirty player but it's interesting that he was on the team dishing it out for once.

Ush1

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah but he was playing with the Barca midfield this time. Ibra couldn't work with them as a lone striker, who's to say Villa can? I also made sure to include some 'if's' in my statment because I'd imagine they'd do rather well.

I'm not arguing the quality of Villa.

Ibra never played as a lone striker with Inter though and the role was alien to him.

Villa plays as a lone striker for Valencia and is prolific.

I think Villa when played central with Spain is abit different and I see your point. I think that he's such a good player he can overshadow who ever would play on the left and so the team might look less threatening as he gets less of the ball when he's through the centre.

Abit off topic anyway!

Royale with Cheese

gandalf wrote: »

Van Persie didn't get any real service at all in that game and ran his heart out.

From what I saw of the Dutch he didn't get any real service all tournament. He was being used as a target man, there to hold the ball up for Robben/Sneijder/Kuyt to come running onto it. Bit of a waste of a quality player.

gibson

gosplan wrote: »

You must have tuned in after he got the yellow card, which incidentally wasn't for his first foul.

Listen, I don't want everyone here rushing to his defence, I'm not saying he's a dirty player but it's interesting that he was on the team dishing it out for once.

You still cant compare him to the likes of Van Bommel or the karate kick from De Jong, not on the same page what so ever

yahoo_moe

gosplan wrote: »

You must have tuned in after he got the yellow card, which incidentally wasn't for his first foul.

Listen, I don't want everyone here rushing to his defence, I'm not saying he's a dirty player but it's interesting that he was on the team dishing it out for once.

In fairness, his early fouls weren't in any way dirty - he was just harrying to let Spain know it wouldn't be easy and made a couple of clumsy "forward's challenges". But there were no studs or potential leg-breaks involved.

Though I'd agree that it's a shame to see him complicit in some of his teammates' tactics. I felt for him a lot this WC actually - Robben and Sneijder were so up their own holes at times that it was like watching them bully the nerdy kid by not passing to him or something.

gosplan

gibson wrote: »

You still cant compare him to the likes of Van Bommel or the karate kick from De Jong, not on the same page what so ever

I didn't

DB10

Van Persie was shocking all tournament, I think that is fair to say. No point being biased.

For me anyway, he is slightly overrated. He is not on the level of the likes of Drogba, Rooney, Villa, Messi, Ronaldo or any of those world class players.

gosplan

DB10 wrote: »

he is slightly overrated. He is not on the level of the likes of Drogba, Rooney, Villa, Messi, Ronaldo or any of those world class players.

overrated you say?

Arsenal1986

Fabregas quots in the Daily Mail after the win last night -

'All I can say is that this (World Cup victory) is for all the Arsenal players and fans, they are a world-class club,' he said after being quizzed on his future. 'I am an Arsenal player and I am proud to be.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2010/article-1294042/WORLD-CUP-2010-This-Arsenal-Cesc-Fabregas-dedicates-Spains-triumph-club-supporters.html#ixzz0tTZlc8UX

Gotta be a good sign. Class act no matter what to say that. said some very nice things bout RVP too in that article.

Arsenal1986

DB10 wrote: »

Van Persie was shocking all tournament, I think that is fair to say. No point being biased.

For me anyway, he is slightly overrated. He is not on the level of the likes of Drogba, Rooney, Villa, Messi, Ronaldo or any of those world class players.

To be fair I don't think anyone rates him that highly. Wenger has said if he could stay fit he believes THEN he would be on that level, which is fair enough. He was the best striker (probably equal best considering Drogba and Rooney were unreal too) in the Premiership for the first two months last season until he got injured last season IMO. Especially in his last few games before he got injured - Wolves away, Spurs at home, Fulham away, Blackburn Home - excellent in all.

Galvasean

gandalf wrote: »

On BBC Sport Soccer Gossip (from the Mirror originally)

"Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger rejected the chance to meet with Barcelona in South Africa to discuss the potential transfer of Gunners midfielder Cesc Fabregas. "

Anyone else have an image in their head of Wenger wearing a afke mustache and magic hat while trying to avoid the Barcelona heirarchy??

gosplan wrote: »

You must have tuned in after he got the yellow card, which incidentally wasn't for his first foul.

Listen, I don't want everyone here rushing to his defence, I'm not saying he's a dirty player but it's interesting that he was on the team dishing it out for once.

I was very surprised at van Persie's fouling (which like some other Dutch players stopped once carded). Two very poor fouls led to his booking. It wasn't just him BTW. Others thet arent normally dirty / cynical fowlers were also doing it. Looks to me that the Dutch manager told them to rough the Spaniards up a bit.

x PyRo

Van Persie was always dirty though, didn't surprise me to see him making a few bad challenges.

Paleface

x PyRo wrote: »

Van Persie was always dirty though, didn't surprise me to see him making a few bad challenges.

I wouldn't have classed him as a dirty player personally.

x PyRo

Paleface wrote: »

I wouldn't have classed him as a dirty player personally.

Dirty may be a bit harsh, He knows how to bend the rules at least. :pac:

gibson

Galvasean wrote: »

Anyone else have an image in their head of Wenger wearing a afke mustache and magic hat while trying to avoid the Barcelona heirarchy??



I was very surprised at van Persie's fouling (which like some other Dutch players stopped once carded). Two very poor fouls led to his booking. It wasn't just him BTW. Others thet arent normally dirty / cynical fowlers were also doing it. Looks to me that the Dutch manager told them to rough the Spaniards up a bit.

lol at the fake mustache :pac:

I have to admit I cant remember Robin getting booked were his tackles as bad as Van Bommel or the others? I think I was more hoping the match would actually get exciting at some point haha

Paleface

x PyRo wrote: »

Dirty may be a bit harsh, He knows how to bend the rules at least. :pac:

He's no Robbie Savage!